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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Brad H on February 24, 2000, at 17:18:03
Has anyone out there heard of the medicine pivagabine(Tonerg). It is a drug from Italy. It's a corticotrophin releasing factor antagonist, the next blockbuster drugs for depression? I was wondering if anybody has tried this medicine. Thanks.
Posted by AndrewB on February 25, 2000, at 0:03:29
In reply to Pivagabine, posted by Brad H on February 24, 2000, at 17:18:03
If you try Pivagabine, let us know how it goes. It sounds promising, especially for anxious depression with hypercortisolism.
Posted by Brad H on March 6, 2000, at 11:36:30
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by AndrewB on February 25, 2000, at 0:03:29
I guess pivagabine was discontinued in 1998. It sad that these companies cannot get a good medicine out to a larger patient group. I guess I'll have to wait til Neurocrine and Janssen release their CRF antagonist drug. Here's to a couple more years of struggling....Brad
Posted by AndrewB on March 6, 2000, at 17:28:56
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by Brad H on March 6, 2000, at 11:36:30
Why are you looking for a CRH antagonist drug? Do you have specific symptoms that you think such a drug may help with?
Posted by Brad H on March 6, 2000, at 18:49:44
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by AndrewB on March 6, 2000, at 17:28:56
> Why are you looking for a CRH antagonist drug? Do you have specific symptoms that you think such a drug may help with?I have an agitated depression. CRF antagonist drugs are being studied for both anxiety and depression. Also I have started noticing a decline in my short term memory and recall. I believe this is happen fromt he excess cortisol running through my body, which can have some detrimental effects on the hypothalamus, etc. So I believe that the CRF antagonist might help control these symptoms. Thanks for all the info......Brad
Posted by AndrewB on March 6, 2000, at 22:20:17
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by Brad H on March 6, 2000, at 18:49:44
>
> > Why are you looking for a CRH antagonist drug? Do you have specific symptoms that you think such a drug may help with?
>
> I have an agitated depression. CRF antagonist drugs are being studied for both anxiety and depression. Also I have started noticing a decline in my short term memory and recall. I believe this is happen fromt he excess cortisol running through my body, which can have some detrimental effects on the hypothalamus, etc. So I believe that the CRF antagonist might help control these symptoms. Thanks for all the info......BradBrad,
Apparently hypercotisolism and hyperactivity of the HPA axis is associated with depression, particulary depression with anxiety. Elevated cortisol can damage serotonin transmission via the hippocampus thus causing depression. Cortisol reducers have been shown to alleviate depression by restoring HPA axis normalcy. On the other hand, ADs have been shown to normalize the HPA axis and lower cortisol levels, it is a two way street.
This means you don’t have to wait for a CRF antagonist to restore normalcy to your HPA axis. An effective AD can do that for you. Also you can try a cortisol reducer. The anticonvulsant phenytoin (Dilatin) reduces cortisol levels. Brandon, a fellow poster, says Dilatin has relieved his depression and anxiety (See a post of his under the string ’Tianeptine’.). It is mostly side effect free (gum overgrowth can be a problem). It is cheap and can be bought over the internet without a prescription.
Dilatin has also been shown to protect the hippocampus, the part of the brain most vulnerable to atrophy and neuronal death due to the stress hormones. The hippocampus is vitally important to memory- damage to it does cause memory problems! Another substance that can protect the hippocampus is 7-Keto DHEA. This form of DHEA does not convert to sex hormones and seems to be side effect free. 7- Keto is a supplement and can be ordered over the internet also.
Wishing you the best of health,
AndrewB
Posted by Cam W. on March 6, 2000, at 22:34:07
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by AndrewB on March 6, 2000, at 22:20:17
Brad - I thought CRH-antagonists were only for short-term use until the antidepressant kicked in. I believe I read that even in theory they won't be of much use in long-term therapy unless they find one with direct antidepressant or anti-anxiety activity as well as CRH-blocking activity. I could be wrong though. So far, the one's being tested have proven disappointing. They have shown some effect in resensitizing ACTH receptors in the adrenals. - Cam W.
Posted by ryan_s on March 6, 2000, at 22:46:40
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by Cam W. on March 6, 2000, at 22:34:07
hopefully someone can help. is a CRH antagonist similar to that of the antidepressant that combated substance P? andrew or brad, have either of you tried tianeptine, and if you did how was your experience. thanks
ryan_s
Posted by AndrewB on March 6, 2000, at 23:39:40
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by ryan_s on March 6, 2000, at 22:46:40
> hopefully someone can help. is a CRH antagonist similar to that of the antidepressant that combated substance P? andrew or brad, have either of you tried tianeptine, and if you did how was your experience. thanks
>
> ryan_sRyan,
I don’t think CRF antoagonists and NK1 (Substance P) receptor antogonists have anything in common other than they act on the HPA axis.
Yes I did try tianeptine. I didn’t give it fair trial though. I used it for only five days. I felt so unsociable, like a sociopath, like a wolf amidst sheep. I thought....this is scary, I’m quiting this stuff. There was a poster back in May who said he had been taking tianeptine for 5 months. I suggest you go back in the archives and read his post, his name was Pandey M. He said that it lowered cortisol amoung other things. He said it wasn’t great for depression but that it helped with panic attacks even though it induced a separate kind of nervousness. It also made him less sociable.
AndrewB
Posted by Brad H on March 7, 2000, at 11:21:20
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by ryan_s on March 6, 2000, at 22:46:40
> hopefully someone can help. is a CRH antagonist similar to that of the antidepressant that combated substance P? andrew or brad, have either of you tried tianeptine, and if you did how was your experience. thanks
>
> ryan_sI also tried tianeptine for about 2 weeks or so and all I really felt from it was physical discomfort. I also tried ketoconazole to control the cortisol, but was not using under a dr's supervision, and I know it to be liver toxic, so decided not to continue. Tried it for two weeks with no results. Good Luck.....Brad
Posted by Brad H on March 13, 2000, at 18:52:34
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by AndrewB on March 6, 2000, at 22:20:17
Andrew, I read in one of your strings that you are taking 7-keto dhea. I was wondering if that has helped at all. I just ordered some myself. I was wondering what dosage you take of this? Have you had any side effects from it? Do you take this with other meds? Thanks for all the great info.....Brad
Posted by AndrewB on March 13, 2000, at 22:10:01
In reply to Re: Pivagabine, posted by Brad H on March 13, 2000, at 18:52:34
> Andrew, I read in one of your strings that you are taking 7-keto dhea. I was wondering if that has helped at all. I just ordered some myself. I was wondering what dosage you take of this? Have you had any side effects from it? Do you take this with other meds? Thanks for all the great info.....Brad
Brad,
At 200mg.s/day 7-Keto took away the unusually long and severe muscle soreness I get after intense exercise (It is supposed to limit the catobolic process that tears muscles down.). I haven't noticed any other effects, good or bad. It is supposed to have a nueroprotective effect on the hippocampus. I'll probably take it for about a year before I decide if it has helped my memory any. I took the dose down to 50mg./day and the muscle soreness came back. I will raise the dosage back up again to see if I can regain the initial effect. The dose needed to give a nueroprotective effect I think would vary from person to person and depend on the person's starting level of DHEA in their body but on the blind a dose of 50mg./day might be good to start with.
AndrewB
This is the end of the thread.
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