![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
OK, don't yell at me for doing this on my own.
I don't think I need any meds at all. Maybe they make me worse over the long run, I just don't know.
Anyways, I'm seriously thinking of stopping everything. (Actually just stopping one, since I've already stopped taking two others). Is there a reason to continue taking meds? I think maybe I complain too much and that is why I always get put on meds. If only I can keep my mouth shut...
I'll let this be my little experiment.
Who has had good experiences stopping all their meds?
Deneb
Posted by gardenergirl on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 2:12:16
Hi deneb,
I'm not going to "yell at you". But I think this is a bad idea.I hope I'm wrong. I care about you.
gg
Posted by Emme on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 2:12:16
> OK, don't yell at me for doing this on my own.
I'm not going to yell, but I do think this kind of experiment is best done under supervision. But I'm curious - why hide it from your doctor? If you have a discussion with her/him and explain that your current meds aren't working and you want to wipe the slate clean and see where you're at, then the experiment could be done as a team effort. If it does turn out that you want to start meds again, then your doc will be ready and in the loop. At least that's how I did it.
emme
>
> I don't think I need any meds at all. Maybe they make me worse over the long run, I just don't know.
>
> Anyways, I'm seriously thinking of stopping everything. (Actually just stopping one, since I've already stopped taking two others). Is there a reason to continue taking meds? I think maybe I complain too much and that is why I always get put on meds. If only I can keep my mouth shut...
>
> I'll let this be my little experiment.
>
> Who has had good experiences stopping all their meds?
>
> Deneb
>
>
>
>
Posted by ClearSkies on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 2:12:16
It seems to me that when you go off your meds your thoughts become very dark.
Unless that's what you want, to feel more intensely?
CS
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-) » Deneb, posted by ClearSkies on December 28, 2005, at 7:01:34
If you want to do it, and you don't think your doctor would "let" you, it is possable to talk to a pharmacist, nurse, or other doctor who might be able to help you do it safely.
Sometimes going off meds can be a good thing.
Linkadge
Posted by jamestheyonger on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 2:12:16
I remember some significant blow ups on this list in the last few months where you seemed to be suicidal, or at least you mentioned suicide. Have you improved so very dramatically in the last few months as to warrant going off all your meds without you doctors advice ?
Posted by Racer on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 2:12:16
> OK, don't yell at me for doing this on my own.
>
> I don't think I need any meds at all. Maybe they make me worse over the long run, I just don't know.Deneb, you know better. If you aren't willing to tell your doctor, doesn't that tell you something? It tells me that you know you're doing something you shouldn't be. And that you know it.
>
> Anyways, I'm seriously thinking of stopping everything. (Actually just stopping one, since I've already stopped taking two others). Is there a reason to continue taking meds? I think maybe I complain too much and that is why I always get put on meds. If only I can keep my mouth shut...Does your doctor know that you've stopped the other two drugs? Why did you do that?
The reason to continue taking meds is that they help you. You may not be remembering, but the rest of us know that you've improved a great deal on the meds. You do need them, kiddo.
Deneb, *why* are you wanting to stop the drugs? Is it because of side effects? If so, talk to your doctor about mitigating them. Is it because you just don't think you need them? Think again -- the improvement you show since being on meds tells me that you really do need them.
Or, Deneb, are you stopping meds because you feel the need for another crisis? If that's the case, don't you think it's in your best interest to address that need, through therapy, while remaining on the meds?
I guess I really want you to tell us WHY you want to stop meds? And why you won't tell your doctor.
Posted by James K on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 2:12:16
Hi, I don't know you yet, but I've read some of your posts. I've gone off my meds everytime. Which along with stopping therapy and not seeing a psychiatrist, is one of the reasons I've needed extra help so many times in the past decade.
I think the main critera for me and maybe you is - do you have the awareness and emotional maturity (in your illness) to recognize AND act if things go spiraling out of control.
I learn lessons the hard way and sometimes I don't learn the lesson. I have someone in my life that can tell me when I'm in trouble because by the time I know it can be too late. I hope you have people like that for you and some are on this board. Thanks for listening.
James K
Posted by lynn971 on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-) » Deneb, posted by Emme on December 28, 2005, at 6:52:12
ok, I wont yell but I will talk really loud. PLEASE dont stop your meds. I have seen my mom stop her meds suddenly. It is not a pretty sight. You could crash and your symptoms will be worse than ever.
Your friend,
Lynn
Posted by spriggy on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:19
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by lynn971 on December 28, 2005, at 15:38:28
Posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:20
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by lynn971 on December 28, 2005, at 15:38:28
> Hi deneb,
> I'm not going to "yell at you". But I think this is a bad idea.
>
> I hope I'm wrong. I care about you.
>
> ggI’ll consider that you think it’s a bad idea.
> I'm not going to yell, but I do think this kind of experiment is best done under supervision. But I'm curious - why hide it from your doctor?
I never said I was going to hide it. I also don’t understand what “supervision” is. Asking me what I think I feel? I can very easily say all the right things to manipulate my pdoc.
> If you have a discussion with her/him and explain that your current meds aren't working and you want to wipe the slate clean and see where you're at, then the experiment could be done as a team effort. If it does turn out that you want to start meds again, then your doc will be ready and in the loop. At least that's how I did it.
>
> emmeI never know whether or not my psych meds are working. I swear it’s like taking vitamins or something. I just want to know whether or not they are doing anything. I just have to be sure I need them before I take them.
> It seems to me that when you go off your meds your thoughts become very dark.
> Unless that's what you want, to feel more intensely?
> CSReally? Are you sure? I remember my thoughts can get very dark on or off meds.
> If you want to do it, and you don't think your doctor would "let" you, it is possable to talk to a pharmacist, nurse, or other doctor who might be able to help you do it safely.
>
> Sometimes going off meds can be a good thing.
>
> LinkadgeCan psych meds really be that dangerous? They don’t seem to be dangerous to me. I can probably safely start or stop most without incident.
> I remember some significant blow ups on this list in the last few months where you seemed to be suicidal, or at least you mentioned suicide. Have you improved so very dramatically in the last few months as to warrant going off all your meds without you doctors advice ?
No, but have I improved dramatically *on* meds?
Some people here think so, but I think they are seeing what they want to see. I think I see what I want to see too. It’s all about the placebo effect.
> Deneb, you know better. If you aren't willing to tell your doctor, doesn't that tell you something? It tells me that you know you're doing something you shouldn't be. And that you know it.
It tells me that I don’t think too highly of p-docs.
*I* don’t think most know what they are doing.
> Does your doctor know that you've stopped the other two drugs? Why did you do that?
My doc told me to stop one. The other I stopped on my own, but I hadn’t been on it long anyways.
> The reason to continue taking meds is that they help you. You may not be remembering, but the rest of us know that you've improved a great deal on the meds. You do need them, kiddo.
How many people here think they helped me? Be objective. If more than 5 people here independently thought that they helped me, I will change my mind because I admit that I’m not always objective.
> Deneb, *why* are you wanting to stop the drugs? Is it because of side effects? If so, talk to your doctor about mitigating them. Is it because you just don't think you need them? Think again -- the improvement you show since being on meds tells me that you really do need them.
I want to stop them mostly because I’m ashamed to be on them and because I really don’t think I need them.. It’s not because of side effects. I have never had problems with that.
> Or, Deneb, are you stopping meds because you feel the need for another crisis? If that's the case, don't you think it's in your best interest to address that need, through therapy, while remaining on the meds?
I don’t feel the need for another crisis. I just want to see if I experience them more. I want to see if meds do anything for me.
> I guess I really want you to tell us WHY you want to stop meds? And why you won't tell your doctor.
I will tell my doc, when I see her on Jan 30th.
> Hi, I don't know you yet, but I've read some of your posts. I've gone off my meds everytime. Which along with stopping therapy and not seeing a psychiatrist, is one of the reasons I've needed extra help so many times in the past decade.
It’s good that you know that meds do something for you. I’m not so sure they do anything for me. That is why I want to do this little experiment.
> I think the main critera for me and maybe you is - do you have the awareness and emotional maturity (in your illness) to recognize AND act if things go spiraling out of control.
>
> I learn lessons the hard way and sometimes I don't learn the lesson. I have someone in my life that can tell me when I'm in trouble because by the time I know it can be too late. I hope you have people like that for you and some are on this board. Thanks for listening.
>
> James KSo far two people have told me specifically that meds helped me, but I think I need more than two people to convince me.
> ok, I wont yell but I will talk really loud. PLEASE dont stop your meds. I have seen my mom stop her meds suddenly. It is not a pretty sight. You could crash and your symptoms will be worse than ever.
That’s the risk I have to take to find out whether or not meds do anything for me.
Deneb
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:20
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-) » Deneb, posted by Racer on December 28, 2005, at 12:27:02
Doctors will tell you to take your meds regardless. But you are the one living in your body.
For me it was the right decision to stop. But the doctor would never have agreed. The cumulative side effect profile was making it harder and harder to get through life.
If a doctor thinks that you're sick, then he won't trust your intuition. In some cases that reasoning may be justified, but in other cases your intuition can be beneficial.
You just need to be sure that your decision is based on the right reasons.
If you are in a rush, and want to stop everything cold turkey, then that might be a sign that it is a rash decision.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:20
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 17:15:33
All I'm trying to say is that some people get worse on meds, its not as uncommon as you might think.
I stayed on meds, probably more because of the support that accompanied them.
I had based my life on the benifits of psychiatric meds, so I did not want to hear "you may not need these meds", cause that simply didn't compute. For years, I spent all this time thinking about this or that chemical imbalence I may have had. It was a fantacy, and to stop meds was to kill the fantasy.
I mean look at me now. I havn't been on meds in 3/4 of a year yet I am still at this site, because well I still like the fantasy.
I felt like this site was a club, and that I could not be a member unless I was "taking something".
I didn't want to hear "you may not need meds" because Ihad spent so long making meds who I was.
But quite honestly, I feel the same minus the side effects.
Linkadge
Posted by blueberry on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:20
In reply to I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 2:12:16
I recently stopped all my meds...
SSRIs for 10 years
Depakote for 2 months
Zyprexa for 5 yearsWith the SSRIs I did it slowly in tiny steps. Depakote I did it cold turkey. Zyprexa I'm still working on, but I'm almost there...1 mg instead of the 5mg I've had for 5 years.
What can make it much easier is amino acid supplementation. Either tryptophan or 5htp can be very helpful for ssri withdrawal. Add in some tyrosine or dl-phenylalanine if it is a snri or wellbutrin withdrawal. Add in a combination gaba, glycine, taurine if it is an antipsychotic or benzo withdrawal.
Getting off meds isn't easy, but it can be a lot easier by going slow, taking small steps, and shoring up the natural brain chemicals with natural amino acids.
Posted by spriggy on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:20
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by blueberry on December 28, 2005, at 17:34:53
I got worse on meds- except for low doses of Klonopin.
However, in your case Deneb, to be truly honest, reading through your posts (even here lately), I don't feel like you've ever been stabilized.
Instead of stopping all meds, have you considered trying different meds if these aren't really helping?
I think it also depends on your rx on whether or not medication is what you need. They've never been able to pin point mine, so I tend to be better off of medication.
I can't tell any difference with you- when you weren't to when you are on your medication. But I am not you and don't know you in real life. Maybe it's best to ask people who live with you or see you daily.
Posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:20
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by linkadge on December 28, 2005, at 17:18:02
> Doctors will tell you to take your meds regardless.
I suspect it is because they'll feel like they aren't doing anything to help us if they didn't.
> For me it was the right decision to stop. But the doctor would never have agreed. The cumulative side effect profile was making it harder and harder to get through life.
I can't tell if the lack of motivation I experience is a side effect or not. I want to find out once and for all.
> If a doctor thinks that you're sick, then he won't trust your intuition.I'm not sure I was ever "sick". I have problems yes, but I don't think I can say I was really sick. I can't say much about my intuition thought...I change my mind very frequently. Sometimes I think I need meds, other times I don't. Most of the time I'm indifferent so I just keep up the routine of taking them.
> You just need to be sure that your decision is based on the right reasons.
I just want to see if I get better or worse without them.
> If you are in a rush, and want to stop everything cold turkey, then that might be a sign that it is a rash decision.
I'm not in a rush. I quit the other two cold turkey because for one my doc told me to and the other I had just started. I'm cutting back on the last because I've been on it for so long.
If I'm going to get worse, I sure hope I get worse soon, before school starts again! I really need to do well next semester and not plan my death all the time.
Hmmm...actually I'm sort of changing my mind now that I'm thinking about school. See how quickly I can change my mind!
Maybe I shouldn't experiment on myself until I get my degree!
What the hell, I'll start taking the damned Wellbutrin again and see if it helps me concentrate on my school work.
Deneb
P.S. I don't think anyone needs to have any problems to participate on this site.
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:20
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-) DENEB, posted by spriggy on December 28, 2005, at 18:49:25
Spriggy, Right on! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 28, 2005, at 23:27:20
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 17:15:33
> I can very easily say all the right things to manipulate my pdoc.
That statement alone, gives me a very troubled feeling about what is to come.
> So far two people have told me specifically that meds helped me, but I think I need more than two people to convince me.
In case you're not counting me as one of the two (and I think there's more than five in this thread already), this is what I said to you in babblemail: "You did not once dwell on death, and concerns about if we would miss you if you killed yourself, or about Dr. Bob, while using Risperdal." I admit I didn't verify the absolute truth in my words, but I believe I am right.
Count me in as one who is convinced the Risperdal helped you.
> That’s the risk I have to take to find out whether or not meds do anything for me.
>
> DenebFair enough. It's quite a reasonable question for which to seek an answer. I pray the answer comes gently to you.
Lar
Posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 23:43:58
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-) » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on December 28, 2005, at 22:56:30
ROFL
I find it funny that stopping meds = withdrawal
Hmmm...is someone trying to send me a message? LOL
Good golly, maybe there *IS* a club...
(Don't mind me, lol)
Deneb
Posted by Phillipa on December 29, 2005, at 0:33:02
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-) » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on December 28, 2005, at 22:56:30
Deneb I think you have your five people now. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by JenStar on December 29, 2005, at 0:33:36
In reply to Redirected to withdrawal?! LOL, posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 23:43:58
hi Deneb,
if you DO decide to quit, I'd really urge you to come up with a step-down plan to wean off the drugs, just to make sure you don't have any weird going-off-meds effects. For example, take 1/2 a pill for a few days, then 1/4 pill, etc. For me, when I quit Lexapro the first time, I did it too fast and I DID get quitting side effects (which eventually went away, but still...)I'd also -- before you quit -- write down in a clear fashion what objective criteria you are going to use to judge your own behavior to check and see if you are or are not changing after going off meds. Something like a mood journal, dark thoughts journal, etc.
Letting a p-doc or other professional know what you're doing is like a safety net. In case you DO have a bad effect, there's someone there to catch you and help you get back on track. Someone who really IS objective and can help see if you're changing or not.
I do get that you want to be off drugs. I do too! Just please be careful how you do it. Don't make yourself worse by doing it too fast!
JenStar
Posted by Racer on December 29, 2005, at 5:09:22
In reply to Re: I've decided to stop all meds :-), posted by Deneb on December 28, 2005, at 17:15:33
>
> I never said I was going to hide it. I also don’t understand what “supervision” is. Asking me what I think I feel? I can very easily say all the right things to manipulate my pdoc.But, Deneb, why would you manipulate your pdoc? You're going to see him for help, which he can't give you unless you're honest with him. Think on that one, 'K?
>
> No, but have I improved dramatically *on* meds?YES! When was the last time you were blocked? That's a good sign that the meds ARE helping you. Dramatically.
>
> It tells me that I don’t think too highly of p-docs.
>
> *I* don’t think most know what they are doing.I wonder, actually, if that's an excuse. They're telling you something you don't want to hear, so you're devaluing them? Can you go to your next appointment with an open mind?
>
>
> I want to stop them mostly because I’m ashamed to be on them and because I really don’t think I need them.. It’s not because of side effects. I have never had problems with that.OK, this sounds like the crux of the matter -- you're ashamed of taking them. Think about that, Deneb. Think about it hard. Not taking a psychotropic medication that improves your condition and your quality of life simply because you're ashamed of taking it is -- well, you know the adjective that I'm thinking of, right?
Think of it as being like having Type I diabetes. You have a chronic condition which you'll need to treat for a long time. Just like a diabetic needs to take insulin. If you were diabetic, would you stop taking insulin because you were ashamed to need it? These drugs aren't really any different -- unless you believe they are.
Before you decide that you don't need them and will stop them -- keeping in mind that more than five people have chimed in to say you have improved -- ask yourself how you'd feel about them if they were for a purely physical disorder?
Posted by Deneb on December 29, 2005, at 14:39:45
In reply to Well, maybe I'm a'gonna raise my voice a bit » Deneb, posted by Racer on December 29, 2005, at 5:09:22
> But, Deneb, why would you manipulate your pdoc? You're going to see him for help, which he can't give you unless you're honest with him. Think on that one, 'K?
I think maybe it is because I don't trust them, well, pdoc2 at least. I'm also very embarrassed to see pdoc1 again on Jan30th. I don't want to disappoint her by taking meds.
> > No, but have I improved dramatically *on* meds?
>
> YES! When was the last time you were blocked? That's a good sign that the meds ARE helping you. Dramatically.If that's the case, I can only conclude that it was the higher dose of Risperdal that did it. I remember being quite distressed even on Celexa. I don't know about the Wellbutrin yet. It's like a wildcard.
> > It tells me that I don’t think too highly of p-docs.
> >
> > *I* don’t think most know what they are doing.
>
> I wonder, actually, if that's an excuse. They're telling you something you don't want to hear, so you're devaluing them? Can you go to your next appointment with an open mind?Not one is telling me I need to be on meds, well, except for the Celexa maybe... I just don't think they know what they are doing. I respect pdoc1 more, so I will have a better time I hope when I see her on Jan 30th.
> > I want to stop them mostly because I’m ashamed to be on them and because I really don’t think I need them.. It’s not because of side effects. I have never had problems with that.
>
> OK, this sounds like the crux of the matter -- you're ashamed of taking them. Think about that, Deneb. Think about it hard. Not taking a psychotropic medication that improves your condition and your quality of life simply because you're ashamed of taking it is -- well, you know the adjective that I'm thinking of, right?The thing is, I'm unsure as it whether or not they really do improve my life.
Since people here seem really adamant that I continue my meds, I will give it try. They don't seem to harm me, so what the heck.
Deneb
Thanks Racer for your clear thinking
Posted by Racer on December 29, 2005, at 17:36:02
In reply to Re: Well, maybe I'm a'gonna raise my voice a bit » Racer, posted by Deneb on December 29, 2005, at 14:39:45
>
> Thanks Racer for your clear thinkingYou're welcome, Deneb. I don't know if you're seeing clear thinking, though, so much as that I do care what happens to you.
Good luck with you.
Posted by waterfall on December 29, 2005, at 20:34:05
In reply to Re: Well, maybe I'm a'gonna raise my voice a bit » Deneb, posted by Racer on December 29, 2005, at 17:36:02
Well, you asked for other's experiences and here's what happened to me. Under the guidance but without the approval of my psychiatrist I went off all my meds for bi-polar II and anxiety. I went off slowly and responsibly. The next two years had good points and bad. I was not ashamed all the time, a huge plus. I felt "free" and "mature." I was very proud of myself. Then, I got so over-sexed (yes, hypomania) that I turned my whole life on its head to get sex and damaged both my marriage and other relationships. Then, the anxiety and depression struck. I lay in bed for hours just shaking. Every second of my life was spend managing my wild mood swings. It affected my careet and my ability to function. It was very, very hard, but I went back to the meds with the same psychiatrist I was seeing before. Now, I'm not miserable. I have very little sex drive but I feel more stable, my marriage is stabilizing, and I make it to work every day. I can't say I'll stay on meds for the rest of my life, but I can say with some certainty that in the long run, I'm better off on the drugs although I can certainly have a run of several good months without them (without that constant shame. Wow, that was the best part of all).
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Withdrawal | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.