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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by helpme on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:15
What have people experienced- is it actually true that occasional or moderate alcohol (ie 2 glasses of wine a couple nights per week) can make depression worse? Can it make antidepressants not work? Can it INDUCE depression? I'm not talking about any binge-drinking, now, nor do I mean getting trashed or even "drunk".
Has anyone ever noticed any dramatic before/after changes around the habit of this sort of level of drinking? Thank you.
Posted by dessbee on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:15
In reply to about alcohol and depression, posted by helpme on July 10, 2006, at 10:46:35
I have seen research where low/moderate doses of alcohol improves neurogenesis (vital property for healing depression). It is probably due to alcohol's anxiolytic effect. In higher doses alcohol increases cortisol levels.
Posted by helpme on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:15
In reply to Re: about alcohol and depression, posted by dessbee on July 10, 2006, at 15:49:20
Really??? That is very interesting.> I have seen research where low/moderate doses of alcohol improves neurogenesis (vital property for healing depression). It is probably due to alcohol's anxiolytic effect. In higher doses alcohol increases cortisol levels.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:15
In reply to Re: about alcohol and depression, posted by helpme on July 10, 2006, at 17:14:53
Hi there,
For me, I find alcohol really helps with my depression and anxiety. I will drink maybe two or three bottles (330ml) of beer a night, just to tame my anxiety and sort of help me 'relax'. I think it is a very useful adjunct.
I'm not sure what is better, drinking two or three beers a night, or taking a benzo. Well actually, I live in the UK, so I have more chance of getting struck by lightning than getting a benzo. Still, I figure this amount of alcohol is no problem whatsoever, and I do have one or two totally beer free nights a week.
As for your questions about making antidepressants ineffective, well I don't know. I've drunk myself silly on prozac and effexor (well I was a student!) and it didn't really effect the anti-d properties I feel.
Also, hmmm I would be skeptical that alcohol can cause depression. I doubt it, if you are drinking in moderate amounts and in a sensible manner. Obviously, if you're an alcolholic, then you might become depressed, because maybe of the alcholism effecting life factors, such as job performance etc. and maybe then that much alcolhol would effect your bodily systems. Also, you might be depressed anyway and turn to drink for escape, but then the alcohol didn't cause the depression.
I think there seems to have been a misconception - when people talk about alcolhol 'depressing the central nervous system' they mean that the CNS is being lowered, dampened - they are using the word 'depressing' to mean lower the activity of, and not 'depression' as in 'depression of mood'. Obviously the brain is part of the CNS, and therefore when you drink you are also depressing the activity of it, but well, you will be depressing the 'good' activity as well as the 'bad' activity...
Anyway here in Europe we seem to have a more relaxed attidude regarding drink. So its much more culturally acceptable to casually drink and nobody here finds my two to three beer nightly habit anything remotely unusual, although I suspect that some places in the USA it might be cause for concern!! Don't they have totally dry states in the USA? Or is that a urban myth? And also, I can't actually believe that in the states its actually *illegal* to drink alcohol under the age of 21 - here its prefectly legal to drink the stuff under 18, just you're not allowed to buy it yourself. Oh well. Crazy world, huh.
I personally don't think drinking moderately and sensibly is anything to worry about, and I doubt it causes depression, probably helps it somewhat. You know, everything in moderation. I mean, look at cultures such as the French and the Italian, they naturally have long life expectancies, and they drink moderately most of the time, and they think it is partly due to their moderate drinking, particulary of red wine.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by wildcardII on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:15
In reply to about alcohol and depression, posted by helpme on July 10, 2006, at 10:46:35
i know that when i used to have a drink or two a few nights a week i rarely felt depressed...it didn't cause any problems for me until i used it as an escape so i quit altogether. just my exp. w/ it...
Posted by helpme on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:15
In reply to Re: about alcohol and depression, posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 11, 2006, at 5:28:24
Hi Meri,My experience and hunches seem to be how yours sound. My parents actually came here to the US from Europe as refugees when they were already in their teens, and have their 2 glasses of wine nightly and are fine, but all my friends always thought they were alcoholics for it! I have a 90 year old auntie in Lithuania who credits her long life and enviable energy and spunk to 3 daily shots of hard-core cognac that she purchases from her doctor! She urged us American relatives to drink more, for the sake of our health. Surreal. Meanwhile, I have read in numerous books and articles that "alcohol absolutely worsens depression and renders many anti-depressents ineffective". So, I wondered, if I totally abstained, would I feel better? But it seems like such an extreme thing to do.
By the way, I don't think the US has any totally dry states. I have heard rumours of dry towns, and in many areas you may not purchase alchohol on Sundays or perhaps before a certain hour of the day. I have visited one western state where the state law required that you have to go to a special type of store to buy any alcohol other than beer or wine, and the merchandise is kept behind bars. You had to point and tell the clerk what you wanted- couldn't even browse the bottles for yourself. Plus, on top of that, they were closed on Sundays! I do not remember for sure, but seems to me there was also a limit as to how many bottles each customer could purchase per visit.
Thanks for your interesting and long post.
> Hi there,
>
> For me, I find alcohol really helps with my depression and anxiety. I will drink maybe two or three bottles (330ml) of beer a night, just to tame my anxiety and sort of help me 'relax'. I think it is a very useful adjunct.
>
> I'm not sure what is better, drinking two or three beers a night, or taking a benzo. Well actually, I live in the UK, so I have more chance of getting struck by lightning than getting a benzo. Still, I figure this amount of alcohol is no problem whatsoever, and I do have one or two totally beer free nights a week.
>
> As for your questions about making antidepressants ineffective, well I don't know. I've drunk myself silly on prozac and effexor (well I was a student!) and it didn't really effect the anti-d properties I feel.
>
> Also, hmmm I would be skeptical that alcohol can cause depression. I doubt it, if you are drinking in moderate amounts and in a sensible manner. Obviously, if you're an alcolholic, then you might become depressed, because maybe of the alcholism effecting life factors, such as job performance etc. and maybe then that much alcolhol would effect your bodily systems. Also, you might be depressed anyway and turn to drink for escape, but then the alcohol didn't cause the depression.
>
> I think there seems to have been a misconception - when people talk about alcolhol 'depressing the central nervous system' they mean that the CNS is being lowered, dampened - they are using the word 'depressing' to mean lower the activity of, and not 'depression' as in 'depression of mood'. Obviously the brain is part of the CNS, and therefore when you drink you are also depressing the activity of it, but well, you will be depressing the 'good' activity as well as the 'bad' activity...
>
> Anyway here in Europe we seem to have a more relaxed attidude regarding drink. So its much more culturally acceptable to casually drink and nobody here finds my two to three beer nightly habit anything remotely unusual, although I suspect that some places in the USA it might be cause for concern!! Don't they have totally dry states in the USA? Or is that a urban myth? And also, I can't actually believe that in the states its actually *illegal* to drink alcohol under the age of 21 - here its prefectly legal to drink the stuff under 18, just you're not allowed to buy it yourself. Oh well. Crazy world, huh.
>
> I personally don't think drinking moderately and sensibly is anything to worry about, and I doubt it causes depression, probably helps it somewhat. You know, everything in moderation. I mean, look at cultures such as the French and the Italian, they naturally have long life expectancies, and they drink moderately most of the time, and they think it is partly due to their moderate drinking, particulary of red wine.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Meri
Posted by helpme on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:15
In reply to Re: about alcohol and depression » helpme, posted by wildcardII on July 11, 2006, at 6:45:13
The alcohol question sure seems more complex than "drink" or "don't drink"!
> i know that when i used to have a drink or two a few nights a week i rarely felt depressed...it didn't cause any problems for me until i used it as an escape so i quit altogether. just my exp. w/ it...
Posted by wildcardII on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:16
In reply to Re: about alcohol and depression, posted by helpme on July 11, 2006, at 8:09:41
and know EXATLY what you mean!!!! no alcohol what so ever on Sundays, liquor and certain wine only at ABC stores and a cut off time to buy every day of the week.
Posted by helpme on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:16
In reply to i live in the *Bible Belt* » helpme, posted by wildcardII on July 11, 2006, at 9:54:15
...and in the city where I live now they freely hand out samples of both straight shots and cocktails in the local grocery store on Saturday nights- featuring whatever liquor is on sale at the moment.> and know EXATLY what you mean!!!! no alcohol what so ever on Sundays, liquor and certain wine only at ABC stores and a cut off time to buy every day of the week.
Posted by cloudydaze on July 26, 2006, at 7:52:16
In reply to Re: i live in the *Bible Belt*, posted by helpme on July 11, 2006, at 17:34:24
Drinking a little helps calm my anxiety...but drinking too much can make me depressed (maybe just because i feel awful from the hangover?)
I don't drink ever day, or even every week, but now and then i'll get on an alcohol kick, when i'll drink a couple drinks everyday for a few days...lately i've been drinking wine :)
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