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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by HyperFocus on September 23, 2008, at 3:37:00
I remember reading that part of the process of recovering from mental illness is coping with the grief over the years you've lost.
I turned 30 recently. The past couple of months I've started having a robust response to my meds. It's still patchy and there's a long long way to go but, at the least, I've learned to distinguish the depressed, anxious, dissociated mood that I've spent most of my life in from the mood reinforced by the meds where I feel comfortable in my skin, where I can again start enjoying the things that gave me joy before mental illness took over my life.
I've been suffering with mental illness for almost twenty years. It started about when I turned twelve because some people at my high school decided I was a good target to pick on.
The details could fill pages and pages but the end result is that today I can barely leave my bed without being overwhelmed by intense feelings of shame and guilt about my body, my actions, etc. etc. I can barely leave my house without being overwhelmed by anxiety. I had mediocre grades, dropped out of university, worked in some mediocre jobs but could never excel at anything, personally, professionally, socially.I wanted to be a scientist. A computer programmer. A writer. A musician. Tonight there was this extended moment I could just close my eyes and feel consciousness washing over me - it's hard to describe but it's like this spiritual feeling staring at a great mystery and
wanting to explore its fabric.This same hypersensitivity that I have is the reason I'm plagued so badly by disease. I'm pretty sure the majority of babblers are like that.
But it's not just grief I feel. It's anger, rage. But more prominently guilt and disbelief. How could I have allowed other people to destroy my soul like that. My integrity as a person has been shattered, damaged perhaps irreparably. How could I have allowed something like this to happen to me. Where is the justice that allows the people who have hurt me so badly to enjoy their life while I remain suffering for so long. Sometimes I fantasize about taking justice into my own hands. I don't condone what that Cho kid did but I understand why he did it. You get to a point in your life where the only thing you can do is destroy the system that destroyed you. At least Cho had the guts to do it.
I'm in a bad place right now. I made a promise to myself that if I turned 30 and was still suffering like this...well most babblerss can finish the thought. Maybe I won't have to keep that promise. Maybe I will, But how do you come to terms with what you've lost?
When I was 8 or 9 I used to wonder how it would feel to be twenty or older, how incredibly far into the future that seemed. I remember I was at the age where a year seemed like such a long time. Turning ten was like a huge deal (I had my first and last birthday party then.) Now 15,20,25,30...the years just seem to blend together all with the same motif of suffering and failure. If somebody had told me that is what my life would be like and it would go on until I was was thirty and older...I dunno. It's like serving a prison term for twenty years and coming out and wondering how to start living again.
Posted by WaterSapphire on September 23, 2008, at 7:20:35
In reply to Grieving for the decades lost **trigger**, posted by HyperFocus on September 23, 2008, at 3:37:00
I so badly want to answer this post with a really long well thought out answer. I probably cannot at the moment, but I wanted to say hi and I really hope that you are able to find a way to completely break free of those chains. I haven't yet myself and I am 32.
Peace
Chelle
Posted by Dinah on September 23, 2008, at 9:29:12
In reply to Grieving for the decades lost **trigger**, posted by HyperFocus on September 23, 2008, at 3:37:00
I so totally understand. Only in recent years have people started to figure out the very high costs of bullying. When I was young, it was passed off as kids being kids. Or kids being vicious. It's not true. The attitude of adults has a huge impact on the amount of bullying.
In some ways my self esteem is fine and appropriate. But in the areas my self esteem may possibly be irrationally poor (and I won't quite admit it is), bullying and not parenting is the culprit. Eleven or twelve is when it started with me too. And I was hypersensitive. Plus as an only child for nearly all of my life at that point, I looked at life more as an adult than as a kid. The behavior of the other kids was incomprehensible to me. I *knew* better than to act like that.
Revenge fantasies filled my days. So I don't condone what revenge killers do in any way. But I do understand the rage and impotence and total lack of ability to escape, and loss of perspective, that underlies some of it. If you stick an animal in a cage, torment it daily, and not give it any real understanding that one day the cage will open, is it any surprise if the animal turns desperate and dangerous?
I have made a study of bullying, as an adult. I toyed with the idea of going back to school in education and finding a job in administration where I could manage to work bullying into the curriculum. When I went to interview schools for my son, I asked on every visit what their bullying policy was. If they didn't know what I meant or weren't able to answer me at once, I didn't consider them. Not coincidentally, my son goes to the school that had put the greatest thought their policies and teachings about bullying.
> I wanted to be a scientist. A computer programmer. A writer. A musician.
Thirty isn't so very old you know. You can still follow your dreams. They may have changed a bit, so take a good look at them. But there's no reason why at thirty you can't follow them.
I was profoundly struck by, of all things, an economic theory I learned many years ago. Sunk cost theory. Wikipedia uses the example of a movie ticket.
"Economists argue that sunk costs are not taken into account when making rational decisions. In the case of the movie ticket, the ticket buyer can choose between the following two end results:
1. Having paid the price of the ticket and having suffered watching a movie that he does not want to see, or;
2. Having paid the price of the ticket and having used the time to do something more fun.In either case, the ticket-buyer has "paid the price of the ticket" so that part of the decision should cancel itself out. If the ticket-buyer regrets buying the ticket, the current decision should be based on whether he wants to see the movie at all, regardless of the price, just as if he were to go to a free movie. The economist will suggest that since the second option involves suffering in only one way (spent money), while the first involves suffering in two (spent money plus wasted time), option two is obviously preferable."
But that old cliche, today is the first day of the rest of your life, is based on sound economic principles. Given that your life up till now can't be changed, what should you do now? What choices at this moment will bring the greatest happiness to you in the future?
Grieving lost time is certainly appropriate. Being angry at it is certainly appropriate.
Your anger ties you to your abusers in a way. I'm not suggesting you should let it go exactly if you aren't ready to do that. But maybe you can consider it impetus to confound your abusers. Don't give them the satisfaction of allowing them to continue to abuse you any longer. Revenge isn't the best revenge, really. Laying them down and moving on with your life, or at least shifting them around so they're an aide rather than a hindrance and moving on in your life, is the best revenge. If you can focus the anger on succeeding now, and not letting them steal one more day of your life. Or if you can lay aside the anger and start concentrating on *you*. Well... Isn't happiness and fulfillment for you the very last thing they'd want?
Posted by Phillipa on September 23, 2008, at 13:04:53
In reply to Bullying » HyperFocus, posted by Dinah on September 23, 2008, at 9:29:12
I guess I was lucky in a way didn't know as a kid was being bullied so fought back. I had a bad childhood didn't let it stand in my way at the time married young had kids young raised them well, they went to nursing school with a small dose of benzos and graduated at 38 worked til 50 and then got ill. So at 62 I don't have the same options you do. You can do whatever you like. Love Phillipa
Posted by Nadezda on September 24, 2008, at 9:49:11
In reply to Bullying » HyperFocus, posted by Dinah on September 23, 2008, at 9:29:12
Hi, Hyperfocus.
I wanted to add my emphatic agreement to Dinah's post. She's absolutely right that 30 is by no means too old to reawaken and follow your dreams-- people change careers at a much later date than that-- or find the thing that they really want to do, after years of searching, and perhaps following a more practical job-- So don't let yourself be convinced by your fears that you've lost the chance. You haven't.
I, too, was rejected and make fun of by kids my age when I was eleven. It was a very traumatic experience and I withdrew from relationships and haven't had many friends as a result. It's taken a long time even to be able to contemplate opening up more-- and only with meds, which I rejected trying for a long time (a decision I regret now, even though the drugs I rejected weren't so good as the ones I use)--
Being hypersensitive does make it more difficult for people who respond more easily or deeply to things that happen-- and especially when they haven't had proper support and nurture at home, and when that's amplified by rejection at school. But it also means that if you choose a career that is right for you, you'll have the pleasure and intensity in your work-- and in relationships-- that can offset, if not fully compensate for the losses.
There's no real answer as to how to accept the lost years. I've found, over time, that they just gradually recede into the background, as you progress with your life in the present-- as what you do, and how you live becomes richer and more engaged-- more committed. There are moments when the sense of sadness or lost possibilities is tragic, or enraging-- but those moments are only moments, not the sum of life. They'll become less frequent and less important as you move into the present and future.
I hope you'll continue to let us know how things are going for you, though. Don't give up now, though.
Nadezda
Posted by HyperFocus on October 1, 2008, at 1:29:48
In reply to Re: Grieving for the decades lost **trigger**, posted by WaterSapphire on September 23, 2008, at 7:20:35
Thanks Chelle, I hope you make it out too. Do you also have social anxiety?
> I so badly want to answer this post with a really long well thought out answer. I probably cannot at the moment, but I wanted to say hi and I really hope that you are able to find a way to completely break free of those chains. I haven't yet myself and I am 32.
>
> Peace
> Chelle
Posted by HyperFocus on October 1, 2008, at 2:42:53
In reply to Bullying » HyperFocus, posted by Dinah on September 23, 2008, at 9:29:12
Thanks for replying Dinah. I also was an only child before 12, so I guess I wasn't prepared to deal with bullying. And when I entered high scholl my family was in a lot of conflict. It's pretty easy to form a profile of somebody who would be traumatised by bullying.
I don't know how you would directly address bullying as school policy, but maybe you could focus on the self-esteem of a child. Identify kids who might be 'at risk' for self-esteem problems. It's so much more than physical bullying. I wanted so badly to play the piano. I had the perfect hands - long fingers and supple wrists. But instead kids would tease me about my skinny arms. Maybe if a teacher or someone had encouraged me to go out and do the things I was good instead of retreating into a shell, things would have been different.
I know what you say about living is true. Because of my condition I value moments of encumbered living - just walking out the door and going to the library without can be enjoyable for itself. And I know I'm not too old to do things I want to do. It's just so damn hard sometimes.
> I so totally understand. Only in recent years have people started to figure out the very high costs of bullying. When I was young, it was passed off as kids being kids. Or kids being vicious. It's not true. The attitude of adults has a huge impact on the amount of bullying.
>
> In some ways my self esteem is fine and appropriate. But in the areas my self esteem may possibly be irrationally poor (and I won't quite admit it is), bullying and not parenting is the culprit. Eleven or twelve is when it started with me too. And I was hypersensitive. Plus as an only child for nearly all of my life at that point, I looked at life more as an adult than as a kid. The behavior of the other kids was incomprehensible to me. I *knew* better than to act like that.
>
> Revenge fantasies filled my days. So I don't condone what revenge killers do in any way. But I do understand the rage and impotence and total lack of ability to escape, and loss of perspective, that underlies some of it. If you stick an animal in a cage, torment it daily, and not give it any real understanding that one day the cage will open, is it any surprise if the animal turns desperate and dangerous?
>
> I have made a study of bullying, as an adult. I toyed with the idea of going back to school in education and finding a job in administration where I could manage to work bullying into the curriculum. When I went to interview schools for my son, I asked on every visit what their bullying policy was. If they didn't know what I meant or weren't able to answer me at once, I didn't consider them. Not coincidentally, my son goes to the school that had put the greatest thought their policies and teachings about bullying.
>
> > I wanted to be a scientist. A computer programmer. A writer. A musician.
>
> Thirty isn't so very old you know. You can still follow your dreams. They may have changed a bit, so take a good look at them. But there's no reason why at thirty you can't follow them.
>
> I was profoundly struck by, of all things, an economic theory I learned many years ago. Sunk cost theory. Wikipedia uses the example of a movie ticket.
>
> "Economists argue that sunk costs are not taken into account when making rational decisions. In the case of the movie ticket, the ticket buyer can choose between the following two end results:
>
> 1. Having paid the price of the ticket and having suffered watching a movie that he does not want to see, or;
> 2. Having paid the price of the ticket and having used the time to do something more fun.
>
> In either case, the ticket-buyer has "paid the price of the ticket" so that part of the decision should cancel itself out. If the ticket-buyer regrets buying the ticket, the current decision should be based on whether he wants to see the movie at all, regardless of the price, just as if he were to go to a free movie. The economist will suggest that since the second option involves suffering in only one way (spent money), while the first involves suffering in two (spent money plus wasted time), option two is obviously preferable."
>
> But that old cliche, today is the first day of the rest of your life, is based on sound economic principles. Given that your life up till now can't be changed, what should you do now? What choices at this moment will bring the greatest happiness to you in the future?
>
> Grieving lost time is certainly appropriate. Being angry at it is certainly appropriate.
>
> Your anger ties you to your abusers in a way. I'm not suggesting you should let it go exactly if you aren't ready to do that. But maybe you can consider it impetus to confound your abusers. Don't give them the satisfaction of allowing them to continue to abuse you any longer. Revenge isn't the best revenge, really. Laying them down and moving on with your life, or at least shifting them around so they're an aide rather than a hindrance and moving on in your life, is the best revenge. If you can focus the anger on succeeding now, and not letting them steal one more day of your life. Or if you can lay aside the anger and start concentrating on *you*. Well... Isn't happiness and fulfillment for you the very last thing they'd want?
Posted by HyperFocus on October 1, 2008, at 19:22:06
In reply to Re: Bullying, posted by Phillipa on September 23, 2008, at 13:04:53
I wish I had had your courage to fight back.
> I guess I was lucky in a way didn't know as a kid was being bullied so fought back. I had a bad childhood didn't let it stand in my way at the time married young had kids young raised them well, they went to nursing school with a small dose of benzos and graduated at 38 worked til 50 and then got ill. So at 62 I don't have the same options you do. You can do whatever you like. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2008, at 19:41:18
In reply to Re: Bullying » Phillipa, posted by HyperFocus on October 1, 2008, at 19:22:06
You do you just don't know it yet. What have you tried for courage. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 14:17:41
In reply to Re: Bullying » Phillipa, posted by HyperFocus on October 1, 2008, at 19:22:06
I didn't fight back either, and I don't consider it a lack of courage. It took a fair amount of courage to stick to my own set of standards. Kids shouldn't have to fight back.
I'd like to see an adult going to work and being treated the way bullied kids are treated. Physically even, not just emotionally. No one would tell that adult to give a sharp punch to their coworker. Or to smile and bear it. They would say the conditions were untenable and they'd either contact the authorities or they'd walk away. People would be hauled away to jail for what kids are expected to bear and fight back on their own.
It's not right, and it should be addressed institutionally. Rampant bullying will end when it is no longer tolerated. It's no different than any other institutionally sanctioned form of abuse. We've drawn the line on spousal abuse, and on hate crimes. It's time to draw the line on child abuse by peers.
This is the end of the thread.
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