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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by fayeroe on April 25, 2007, at 19:28:52
In reply to Re: Son wants to go to rehab 'for about a month'.., posted by Declan on April 25, 2007, at 19:11:47
> It's hard to know why anyone would ever (really) want to be clean when they could get coke.
>
> Maybe you just have to get so sick that you come to a position deep down that you have finally had enough?To quote Bob Dylan, "just when you think you've lost everything, you find out you can always lose a little more"..........
Posted by fayeroe on April 25, 2007, at 19:35:38
In reply to Thanks all of you, for your support......., posted by Kath on April 25, 2007, at 19:28:49
>
> Thank you all & wouldn't a group hug feel great right about now?
>
> love, kathone coming your way from Texas!
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2007, at 20:02:38
In reply to Re: Son wants to go to rehab 'for about a month'...... » Kath, posted by fayeroe on April 25, 2007, at 17:22:59
Wow I was lucky as my Son as a teen did coke and sold it too. Also took himself off no couseling. Incredible. Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on April 25, 2007, at 20:30:28
In reply to Re: Son wants to go to rehab 'for about a month'.., posted by fayeroe on April 25, 2007, at 19:28:52
Hey, great quote.
Posted by fayeroe on April 25, 2007, at 20:37:57
In reply to Re: Son wants to go to rehab 'for about a month'.. » fayeroe, posted by Declan on April 25, 2007, at 20:30:28
> Hey, great quote.
helps keep my head straight about my life.........pat
Posted by zenhussy on April 28, 2007, at 16:04:28
In reply to Thanks all of you, for your support......., posted by Kath on April 25, 2007, at 19:28:49
Posted by fayeroe on April 28, 2007, at 16:40:06
In reply to rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the course! (nm) » Kath, posted by zenhussy on April 28, 2007, at 16:04:28
i like that. rehab "lite"........and of course, i agree. 30 days is hardly enough time to detox fully and get your game back. you learn to say what the counselors want to hear in that length of time..........
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2007, at 19:20:09
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the course! » zenhussy, posted by fayeroe on April 28, 2007, at 16:40:06
Ever watched Intervention? Good show and they seem to have pretty good results with long term treatment if the person stays in the program. Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on April 28, 2007, at 20:36:36
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the course! » fayeroe, posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2007, at 19:20:09
Maybe people in this situation need something that cannot be provided by the medical profession.
Like a sense of meaning and purpose, something that makes them want to get out of bed in the morning, something to live and breathe inside them.
Posted by fayeroe on April 28, 2007, at 20:46:22
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour, posted by Declan on April 28, 2007, at 20:36:36
> Maybe people in this situation need something that cannot be provided by the medical profession.
>
> Like a sense of meaning and purpose, something that makes them want to get out of bed in the morning, something to live and breathe inside them.they do have a sense of purpose and a reason to get up...........drugs!!!! i've worked with them and until they "bottom" out, it is pretty hopeless. an addict has more excuses, lies, denial than Carter has little liver pills. my BS meter is really high.
the reason that will usually motivate them is knowing that they are dying unless they quit. OR their money is cut off and someone quits enabling them. and then they hit the streets and find out life is pretty damned sh*tty out there.
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:47:00
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour, posted by Declan on April 28, 2007, at 20:36:36
> Maybe people in this situation need something that cannot be provided by the medical profession.
>
> Like a sense of meaning and purpose, something that makes them want to get out of bed in the morning, something to live and breathe inside them.******Declan - I totally agree.
I think they need the whole rehab thing to deal with the drug part.
I think that the long-term rehab - (as Zen says, 'lite' wouldn't do it for my son) hopefully would touch on the pain that probably had a large part in causing drug abuse in the first place, but what about the part you mentioned??? How to fill the empty part?
Any thoughts? It must be different for every person.
hugs, Kath
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:53:12
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » Declan, posted by fayeroe on April 28, 2007, at 20:46:22
> > Maybe people in this situation need something that cannot be provided by the medical profession.
> >
> > Like a sense of meaning and purpose, something that makes them want to get out of bed in the morning, something to live and breathe inside them.
>
> they do have a sense of purpose and a reason to get up...........drugs!!!!************Pat, I think Declan means something positive to replace THAT sense of purpose & reason to get up!! :-) How does a person find meaning in life? Maybe some people are fortunate enough to have it & some are unfortunate enough not to have it? I dunno. My son says his life is pretty empty right now. The vibes coming from him are that he has no power to change that.
Obviously he's where he is due to his own actions & inactions. I only can hope that in working with his mental health case worker there might be a spark of hope but as you say - it usually is a case of hitting bottom. He's already hit what I would consider bottom if it were ME!!! It's pretty depressing & scarey to me.Kath
PS - I have no idea how you can do your job & not get depressed & cynical & down....I would be all of those, I think! I admire people who can do those types of jobs ongoing!
hugs, Kath
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:54:35
In reply to rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the course! (nm) » Kath, posted by zenhussy on April 28, 2007, at 16:04:28
I agree. Lite won't do it.
What do you mean by stay the course?
I'm trying to stay detached; to take care of me while being detachedly & selectively supportive.
It's a hard balance to attain.
hugs, Kath
Posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 17:42:22
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the course! » zenhussy, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:54:35
There must have been plenty of people who have addressed the problem of what to do once you have succeeded in abstaining from drugs.
I like the idea that drug abuse is a lust for life gone wrong. (This idea comes from the Iggy Pop album of the same name.)
The only thing that comes to mind is exploring, and it's the wrong century for that (drug use being a kind of exploration).
There must be some way to sublimate this stuff.
Telling someone to do a 9 to 5 and pay the mortgage off doesn't seem to cut it.
Of course, having the right friends and acquaintances is important.
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:42:16
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » fayeroe, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:53:12
i wasn't feeling well when i answered that post and now when i read it, it sounds too harsh.
until your son gets off drugs, the hole can't be filled. when you talk to him/her/anyone, you're talking to the drugs and they are talking back to you.
is his drug of choice cocaine? and does he actually say that he wants to quit or is he still thinking he can "manage" it....cocaine isn't manageable. it rules a person's life.
i've been through it when my kids were teens and early 20s and it is so hard to not step in and do things for them. and i agree with you about bottoming out. hell, i'd bottom out the first time i didn't have money to buy myself a coca-cola. :-) but we're all wired differently. and that is the secret to finding what will stop the usage, the dependence upon masking the pain. that's behind drug usage.......masking a hurt and refusing to deal with feelings. it takes a good counselor to cut through to that.
i was in the grocery store one day and a man came up to me. a former patient. he said he had been sober for a year and it was due to me.(he worked very hard in treatment) that makes all of the other crap worth it. his eyes were shining, he was clean and had a job.......wooooooohoooooooooo. that's better than money.
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:46:19
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour, posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 17:42:22
> There must have been plenty of people who have addressed the problem of what to do once you have succeeded in abstaining from drugs.
>
> I like the idea that drug abuse is a lust for life gone wrong. (This idea comes from the Iggy Pop album of the same name.)
>
> The only thing that comes to mind is exploring, and it's the wrong century for that (drug use being a kind of exploration).
> There must be some way to sublimate this stuff.
> Telling someone to do a 9 to 5 and pay the mortgage off doesn't seem to cut it.
> Of course, having the right friends and acquaintances is important.
excellent point about friends, declan.....someone who is clean can't go around the old user buddies......ever. a new life has to be invented, with a different purpose than before. the old friends will suck the life out of someone newly sober and they will fall right back into the trap.i know that the 9-5 grind wouldn't do it for me. it's hard. different strokes for different folks. pat
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:47:38
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » fayeroe, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:53:12
my heart is with you. the amount of pain that this causes is daunting to anyone, but it's different when you're the mother. xoxoxo pat
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:02:22
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour, posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 17:42:22
> There must have been plenty of people who have addressed the problem of what to do once you have succeeded in abstaining from drugs.
*****but in my son's case, I think that it'd be really hard for him to even consider changing his lifestyle until he has something else in place! Right now, he doesn't want to stop doing drugs; he wants to be in control of his use rather than NOT in control of it. Right now, as pointed out by Pat in another post, all his friends either drink or use something or other, so unless there's something else in place he is NOT going to stop.***
> The only thing that comes to mind is exploring, and it's the wrong century for that (drug use being a kind of exploration).
****that's an interesting observation! Too bad about the century. I would have loved to be an explorer! I love reading about them.*****> Telling someone to do a 9 to 5 and pay the mortgage off doesn't seem to cut it.
*******That's for sure!! His passion is 'mixing' music. He has mentioned an interest in taking sound engineering at college. That would be such a huge shift. Who knows. All I can do is hope & try to keep calm & keep loving him, I guess.
Thanks for your input! Hope you're doing well. hugs, Kath***
Posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 19:22:10
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » Declan, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:02:22
So he has to give up the drugs *and* his friends.
And he must think 'what's left to give up after that?'
But like Pat suggested with the Dylan quote, he may find other things.
(So that's what that meant? I didn't really get it till now.)And mixing music. Probably too much fun, hey? (Sounds good to me).
But what to do?I don't have any bright ideas at all. The best *I* managed was read about C20 history, which maybe was the best I could have done. I dunno.
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:22:42
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » Kath, posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:42:16
> i wasn't feeling well when i answered that post and now when i read it, it sounds too harsh.
>
> until your son gets off drugs, the hole can't be filled. when you talk to him/her/anyone, you're talking to the drugs and they are talking back to you.******Yup. I really don't like talking with him these days, since it's sorta like he's not 'there'. The psychosis symptoms are more evident than before GF went back to BC & at which time, he started drinking/using again. Part of the psychosis symptoms are his being withdrawn; not very communicative, etc. Some days are better than others.*******
> is his drug of choice cocaine? and does he actually say that he wants to quit or is he still thinking he can "manage" it....cocaine isn't manageable. it rules a person's life.
******He drinks probably daily. Whichever of his friends has booze shares it. A few weeks ago, he told me that while his drug of choice used to be weed, it's now cocaine. And NOOOO - he does not want to quit drugs. Now, saying that, I haven't asked him where he stands on coke. Come to think of it, he said that he mainly does cocaine if he is really feeling rotten & is alone.
He does weed sometimes & E sometimes also & K. Lovely eh? All I know is that since he's been back - Jan 28th, he's done coke about I figure 6 different days. Three times he's messed up financially due to it. (been late for rent, etc). The last time he really messed up & that made him realize that he was NOT in control of his use. While discussing rehab, he said that he knows drugs will be a part of his life when he gets out of rehab, so he wants to learn to be able to control it. (I give myself full credit for not saying anything, but just listening at that point. He's not ready to hear any sense about it yet, in my opinion.)********
> > i've been through it when my kids were teens and early 20s and it is so hard to not step in and do things for them. and i agree with you about bottoming out. hell, i'd bottom out the first time i didn't have money to buy myself a coca-cola. :-) but we're all wired differently. and that is the secret to finding what will stop the usage, the dependence upon masking the pain. that's behind drug usage.......masking a hurt and refusing to deal with feelings. it takes a good counselor to cut through to that.
****When my son was telling me he needed rehab, he was talking about various things that I'd done in the past. (He's very much in victim mode; his case manager talked with me about this aspect of things & helped me feel better.) Anyway, I pointed out to him that YES - he has all these hurts & they need to be dealt with & healed before he can heal. That using drugs has been his way of dealing with stress & painful emotions, etc & that I didn't see how 1 month could do that....that he had his whole life ahead of him; maybe setting aside a few months wasn't such a bad trade-off in order to heal. But he isn't ready to hear it yet. Nevertheless, I have said it, so I feel good about that. It's 'in there' somewhere...he might remember it some day.****
> i was in the grocery store one day and a man came up to me. a former patient. he said he had been sober for a year and it was due to me.(he worked very hard in treatment) that makes all of the other crap worth it. his eyes were shining, he was clean and had a job.......wooooooohoooooooooo. that's better than money.*****that must have been amazing!!!!!!! What a wonderful thing to happen Pat!! It seems to me that often your job must be a thankless one; particularly if people are court-ordered to quit. That experience must have been just great! Thanks for your input about all of this.
And I'm going to answer your other post separately.Kath
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:23:58
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » Kath, posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:47:38
> my heart is with you. the amount of pain that this causes is daunting to anyone, but it's different when you're the mother. xoxoxo pat
Hey - that could explain why sometimes it feels just so awful!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the validation Pat.
I send hugs, Kath
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 21:14:00
In reply to :-) » fayeroe, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:23:58
> > my heart is with you. the amount of pain that this causes is daunting to anyone, but it's different when you're the mother. xoxoxo pat
>
> Hey - that could explain why sometimes it feels just so awful!!!!!!!!
>
> Thanks for the validation Pat.
>
> I send hugs, Kathyou're most welcome and thanks for the hugs. i'm having a bit of a hard time with physical pain today.......xoxox pat
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 21:18:27
In reply to Thanks Pat » fayeroe, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:22:42
there are several questions that an addict can answer and it can be very "eye-opening" for them.
1. do you use/drink alone?
2. do you use/drink first thing in the morning?
3. ever lost a relationship due to your usage?
4. ever have money problems due to your usage?
5. ever lose your "housing" due to the usage?
6. ever hide your stash, so you won't have to share?
7. ever lose a job due to drugs/alcohol?i worked with a Navajo saddle bronc rider and one night (i'm a photographer also), he came up to me at a rodeo and said, "you'd be amazed at how much easier it is to win when you're sober"........:-) he won the world championship that year!!!!!!!!
Posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 22:06:05
In reply to Re: Thanks Pat » Kath, posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 21:18:27
That life is easier when you are sober, not the other way round.
Posted by fayeroe on May 1, 2007, at 7:43:04
In reply to Maybe that's it?, posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 22:06:05
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