![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 16:08:42
In reply to In this post I will explain my comments., posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 20:23:35
If you haven't read Nietzsche's 'The Genealogy of Morals' I think you might find it quite interesting. Alternatively, 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra'.
Tamar
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 17:03:21
In reply to Re: Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 22:30:07
> I didn't mean to offend, in fact I went out of my to try not to offend because I know some people on this forum may be easily triggered or hurt by certain comments.
I believe you. However, not meaning to and even posting a caution that some may be offended does not negate the rules.
>
> And in all honesty, I only said about 1% of what I could have said about "most people."It may be a good thing that you reserved the remainder.
>
> But on the other hand, "most people" aren't very considerate to me, especially when it comes my opinions, which I try not to voice.As Dr. Bob often says, "Two wrongs do not make a right." The civility rules apply even if one feels that others were not civil in return.
>
> I right off the bat get the "Ohhhhh, what do you think you're better than 'most people'?!?!?" If I do, what's wrong with that?There is no problem with thinking you are better than anyone else right up to the point of putting down others. I believe our individual rights extend only as far as others' begin.
>But I was just venting bottled up thoughts on this board, it's not a reflection of things I go around saying to just anyone. Just venting frustrations.
Venting can be a useful thing to do, but we do not have the freedom to say whatever we wish here.
>
>
> I am sorry if I broke the rules of the board, I will be more careful next time.Thank you. Please feel free to ask a deputy for feedback before posting if you are unsure of something. Some posters also use a "civility buddy" for guidance.
Take care,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 17:59:33
In reply to Re: Please be civil » TexasChic, posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 23:02:35
>
> Meanwhile, the masses, their lives are a blur of "blissful ignorance" and chasing the useless things of life.Out of sensitivity to the masses, who may not after all be chasing "useless things", would you please rephrase the above statement?
Feel free to consult the FAQ http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil and/or to email or babblemail a deputy, Dr. Bob or another poster for assistance.
Thanks,
deputy gg
Posted by TexasChic on June 21, 2006, at 18:03:15
In reply to Not PBCing you :) » TexasChic, posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 17:14:00
> I guess I'm just troubled, because I can't see how anyone can really know these things about others. They're inferences at best. No one really knows what's in another's heart, mind, or soul.
Too true.
> Surely no one would get offended because they consider themselves one of the uptight, rude, brainless people?
> They might feel offended if they thought they were being labelled as such. Many labels have derogatory or otherwise critical views embedded in them. That doesn't make the labels themselves wrong, but applying them to another group can lead that group to feel put down or offended. And even "uptight, brainless, rude" people, whoever they might be have feelings, don't they? I ask again, if you thought you were being labelled as such, how would you feel?I didn't see it as labeling as much as grumbling about the rude people in the world. But since you read it otherwise, I guess that means it must of been ambiguous, which we want to avoid.
> Could this possibly be one of those 'reword situations' to let the poster know his comments might be misunderstood?
> I suppose it could be, but actually Dr. Bob considers a "please rephrase" as more serious than a PBC, since it requires an action on the poster's part.Wow, I didn't know that. Shows how much I know.
> I appreciate your thoughts.
I appreciate being appreciated. :-)
I was very leery about posting this last night, I'm a big time confrontation avoider. But I felt like I was the only one getting what Michael was trying to say, so I thought I should speak up.
-T
Posted by Declan on June 21, 2006, at 18:03:22
In reply to Echoes of Nietzsche? » Michael83, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 16:08:42
Not that I know anything much about him, apart from having read Ecce Homo, which was astonishing and brilliant and crazy. But I would *like* to know more about him. He keeps cropping up...in the idea that Freud is domesticated Nietzche with something (what?) left out.
In the 1880s he said "He who overthrows us is strong; he who raises us up is divine; he who heightens our perceptions is profound."
(Where's that from?)
Prophets,of whatever sort, are interesting.And then also this about him...'Then his tone became that of a solitary man who knows he is no longer being heard: more strident, more virulent, more contemptuous. Balanced essays were replaced by aphorisms, thrown out like orders--a medium he borrowed from the French writers of the C18. At the end madness revealed itself, in the biting cleverness of his utterences, as in the precision with which they were made.'
Umm, I tried Thus Spake Zarathustra. Why couldn't I finish it?
Declan
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 18:03:44
In reply to Re: Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by TexasChic on June 20, 2006, at 21:02:27
I redirected the posts about the PBC to admin. You can follow the thread at this link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/659828.htmlIf I missed any that should go there, please let me know. Thanks!
deputy gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 18:04:44
In reply to Redirected to Admin » TexasChic, posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 18:03:44
Posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:10:15
In reply to Please rephrase » Michael83, posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 17:59:33
What I meant to say is that most people spend each day concerned mostly with trivial things.
Thinking about some material thing, or being obsessed over silly "entertainment" options like some TV show. Or what they're going to cook for diner. Things like that.
Yeah yeah I think about material things, entertainment options, and what I want to eat, but I don't spend most of my day doing so. Most of my thought is spending "thinking" about what I believe are important things. I examine people, the world, news, collect knowledge.
Tamar brought up Nietzsche. Well most people don't care about Nietzsche, or any philosophy for that matter. Most don't read books like, or books at all (at least important nonfiction books that is).
Part of what I'm saying is that most people are intellectually lazy.
Most people care more about some game show (I'm using this as an example as something trivial, I know most people don't watch game shows on a regular basis) that's on at 8, than knowledge that may expand them intellectually or benefit them in some way.
I remember when I was in college (in 2002/2003) I swear I spent more time in the university library reading than in the classroom. I used to stay at that library until it closed at 9 or 10 at night. I'd walk up and down the isles of non fiction books (it was a university library so it was mostly all nonfiction) and just be fascinated with all the knowledge in those books. I mean really fascinated and exciting. I'd just be in awe at all the things there were to learn. I'd sit and read for hours and hours about everything. I read everything from history books, to philosophy, to science, to even real estate and other investment books, and classics like Walden or some of Mark Twain's books. I honestly remember saying to myself, "If there's a heaven, I'm sure it's a massive library."
Most of the time I wasn't able to finish any of the books I read because by the time I got well into a book, I was like a little dog who found better chew toy to play with and couldn't resist the temptation of another book that I had found. But you still learn a lot by just opening a book and randomly reading.
I always wondered, why aren't most (or even MORE) people like this? Hardly no one reads, or even cares. But they sure watch those game shows by the millions. Yeah they're fun to watch sometimes, but I sure don't want to spend my life glued to them. I'd rather learn something important that will benefit me. (I try to only read about important things.)
Anyway, I'll go back in topic, also when I used the phrase "blissful ignorance," I was referring to heavily dogma-ized organized religion, common pop culture "cure all" phrases (two dimensional simplistic phrases or thought processes people use to explain things they could not otherwise explain.), and/or the habit of just ignoring the world without thinking about it for themselves (and focusing more on those trivial things.)
Look at some of the news shows, they always have to include some sort of simple minded drama or some hook or catch to keep people watching (think Geraldo).
I also think it's funny how the news is only 30 minutes long, but the "primetime" part of TV day is about 3 hours (chalk full of game/reality shows and sitcoms).
And even on the news, the most popular segments are the weather and sports. I couldn't possibly care less about grown men playing some game meant for children, or whether or not it will rain tomorrow (if it rains, it rains, nothing I can do about it.) I don't need a weather prediction, I'll find out the weather when it arrives.
Do I sound like Andy Rooney yet? Sorry. lol.
I did read most of the link you provided in your post, and I will keep it in mind, but most of what is said is about "reactions" to other people's posts. My post isn't a reaction to anything I read on here. I like what I read on here. People here think.
I have nothing against anyone on here. I'm not taking issue with anyone on here. In fact the opposite is true, I feel a sense of compassion for people on here because of what they go through because I deal with similar issues. I'm not point fingers are "you guys," but rather I was trying to say I'm sorta like "you guys" and I'm pointing my finger at all the shallow people (aka "them") of the world.
I know it's not right judge people, but I truly truly believe in my heart of hearts that I have a generally good read on most people I meet (in person at least). I am proven right time and time again, day after day. It's almost like I can predict the words that come out of their mouth. Most normal people are so similar it's beyond belief.
But I'm sure people on this board aren't part of "them." Most of us think and reflect (anyone can think, you don't have to be mentally quick, it's the effort that counts). Most of "them" don't think. They just live in a blur of pop culture and shiny trinkets. And when they do think, they usually come to conclusions (usually simple or trite conclusions) as quickly as possible (thinking is soooooo hard for them), just so they can revert back to their usual blurry self.
I hope that rephrases it better.
Posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:11:49
In reply to Echoes of Nietzsche? » Michael83, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 16:08:42
I have not read it, but I will certainly give it a look. From the wikipedia entry on it, it seems very interesting. Thanks! =D
Posted by Dinah on June 21, 2006, at 21:28:23
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:10:15
You know what I'm guessing?
I'm guessing that lady in the SUV is thinking about how she's going to pick up her daughter and bring her to dance class when she also needs to bring her mom to that doctor, because she really doesn't think her eyesight is good enough to drive any more. But what will she do then? How can she stop this proud woman from driving? And who will bring her on her errands? And maybe she should extend an invitation for her mother to live with her, except that her husband might not like that and then what will happen to the kids with all that tension in the house.
And that guy is probably thinking about how he's going to tell his wife that his hours have been cut. Money's tight already, and they just bought that new car that she's wanted so much. Will she be disappointed with him? He knows he really ought to sit down and talk with her about it. But he can't quite face it. Maybe he'll watch a mindless TV show first to give him a chance to relax before bringing it up.
And that lady over there? Her daughter just got engaged to a wonderful young man. Her mind is full of weddings and babies and pride and a bit of sadness at the passing of time.
In other words, the world is full of everyday dramas and everyday pain, and everyday joys. If you look below the surface, everyone is probably really thinking about those things, not the TV show they're laughing at on the surface. They may or may not have time to read philosophy. They may or may not have the inclination.
But most of them are decent people trying to do their best for their families.
Posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:44:06
In reply to Well » Michael83, posted by Dinah on June 21, 2006, at 21:28:23
>But most of them are decent people trying to do their best for their families.
I agree and I never said they weren't. Whatever makes them happy.
But me? I don't spend my time thinking about the examples you mentioned. I never want kids, I never want to be married, I never want some corporate ladder climbing career, I never want any sort of attachments to anything or anyone and I don't see how anyone can either.
They do what they do, I do what I do, but that doesn't mean I have to like them because I know they don't like me. ;) But if they stay out of trouble, and cause no one harm, I still respect them, and that's good enough.
Posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:46:18
In reply to Re: Well » Dinah, posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:44:06
Addition to last post.
Well "respect" them, but in a different way I would respect someone I truly admire.
I respect them in a "no harm to me, no foul" way.
Posted by Adrift on June 21, 2006, at 22:02:16
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:10:15
>
> Part of what I'm saying is that most people are intellectually lazy.>
> Most people care more about some game show (I'm using this as an example as something trivial, I know most people don't watch game shows on a regular basis) that's on at 8, than knowledge that may expand them intellectually or benefit them in some way.
>
> I remember when I was in college (in 2002/2003) I swear I spent more time in the university library reading than in the classroom. I used to stay at that library until it closed at 9 or 10 at night. I'd walk up and down the isles of non fiction books (it was a university library so it was mostly all nonfiction) and just be fascinated with all the knowledge in those books. I mean really fascinated and exciting. I'd just be in awe at all the things there were to learn. I'd sit and read for hours and hours about everything. I read everything from history books, to philosophy, to science, to even real estate and other investment books, and classics like Walden or some of Mark Twain's books. I honestly remember saying to myself, "If there's a heaven, I'm sure it's a massive library."
>
> Most of the time I wasn't able to finish any of the books I read because by the time I got well into a book, I was like a little dog who found better chew toy to play with and couldn't resist the temptation of another book that I had found. But you still learn a lot by just opening a book and randomly reading.
>
> I always wondered, why aren't most (or even MORE) people like this?
The short answer, we are all differnet.
> Hardly no one reads, or even cares.
<But they sure watch those game shows by the millions. Yeah they're fun to watch sometimes, but I sure don't want to spend my life glued to them. I'd rather learn something important that will benefit me.
(I try to only read about important things.)Important to who? important to you? That's what's important! To me watching something funny is important, because it is something I really enjoy to help get my mind off things.
>
> And even on the news, the most popular segments are the weather and sports. I couldn't possibly care less about grown men playing some game meant for children, or whether or not it will rain tomorrow (if it rains, it rains, nothing I can do about it.) I don't need a weather prediction, I'll find out the weather when it arrives.
>what is wrong with watching sports or even the weather?
>
> I know it's not right judge people,
Maybe all it comes down to is, you would prefer to socialie with "intellectuals".
I try not to judge a book by it's cover. Or a TV by it's screen ;)
Posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 22:18:30
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » Michael83, posted by Adrift on June 21, 2006, at 22:02:16
>>Important to who? important to you? That's what's important! To me watching something funny is important, because it is something I really enjoy to help get my mind off things.
Ayn Rand once said, "When a man declares: "There are no blacks and whites," he is making a psychological confession, and what he means is: "I am unwillling to be wholly good -- and please don't regard me as wholly evil!"
To throw out all logic in trying to find what is "important" leaves nothing important and everything trivial.
But like I said before, whatever makes you happy. That's one of life's most important things, to be happy. Hard to compete with happiness.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 23:20:35
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:10:15
> What I meant to say is that most people spend each day concerned mostly with trivial things.
and
> Part of what I'm saying is that most people are intellectually lazy.Perhaps part of the difficulty here is about what I am asking. Just to clarify, the purpose of a rephrase is not to convince or explain how what you are saying is okay, or further explain what you mean, but rather it is to make what you want to say fit within the civility guidelines.
In this case, one way to do that might be to back off from talking about "most people". Perhaps you could instead talk about what you value without holding it up in comparison to "most people".
Another hint to help this process. Your beliefs and what you value are important and have value, and I'm not trying to change them or keep you from expressing them. But what other people value and believe is equally important and valuable. One of the guidleines here is that we must be sensitive to others' opinions.
Please try again with your rephrase keeping in mind the above. I strongly encourage you to babblemail or email your proposed rephrase to someone familiar with the guidelines here before posting it. If you haven't had a chance to read the FAQ, I should also let you know that posters can be blocked for posts which do not meet the civility guidelines.
thanks,
deputy gg
Posted by Michael83 on June 22, 2006, at 0:30:54
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » Michael83, posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 23:20:35
*sigh*
>>>>In this case, one way to do that might be to back off from talking about "most people". Perhaps you could instead talk about what you value without holding it up in comparison to "most people".
I understand.
You say the intention of your post was not to get me to explain my post, but to rephrase it. I explained it despite because I believe you misunderstood it. I am sorry for the confusion, perhaps it was my fault.
I merely meant to say that I dislike shallow and rude people and I bent over backways in the last few posts to say nice things and give leeway people I dislike.
The whole intention of the first post I made was to tell everyone why I am happy being me, even with the problems I have. I hoped with that others with issues could feel happy being a bit unique (as I do).
As far as what I value; I value intellect, individualism, and intellectual/emotional/personal courage (courage to self analyze, independently think, and opinionate without bias or attachments, ie conquering self.) Although that doesn't say much, that's the best I can rephrase it. Not sure what else I can do, I tried my best, I'm sorry.
I spend my nights worrying that the Creator of the Universe is literally out to get me and torture me for all eternity. When you understand that, maybe you'll realize why I view so many things as "trivial," and look down on so many things and people (so so far down).
>>>One of the guidleines here is that we must be sensitive to others' opinions.
In nearly every post I've made I said things I didn't want to, just to leave "humble gray areas" (imply I could be wrong, or if they're happy being shallow, it's not my place to criticize them.) I don't see how much more sensitive I can be.
I sorry I even posted the original post.
I just wanted to say something nice about people who are different because people who are different can spend their entire lives wishing they were normal like "everyone else." I know this first hand.
I write almost all my posts at night, right before I go to bed, and most all the time I've very tired when I write them. Perhaps I worded my posts wrong.
>>>>>I should also let you know that posters can be blocked for posts which do not meet the civility guidelines.
If you're trying to ask me politely to leave, I understand, and will oblige.
I just was trying to voice a few major issues (fear of death, contempt for the world) that have given me countless emotional scars and which I will undoubtedly spend the rest of my life obsessing over.
My eyes watered when I wrote this post, so I hope everyone knows that unlike most people (here I go again, forgive me one last time) who when feeling unwelcome on a message board would just leave with a "well forget you then, I'll just leave, I don't need you internet jerks!" and run off and never think of it again , I like the people here and I'll probably think of you and I really hope everyone is one day able overcome their issues and I wish them the best.
I don't know if this is the last post I'll ever make on this Dr Bob's site, but thank you everyone for your help with my earlier posts (in May and early June). Goodbye.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2006, at 1:18:57
In reply to Re: Please rephrase (leaving psybabble) » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 22, 2006, at 0:30:54
I appreciate you working with me on this, and in no way am I asking you to leave. I just was not sure if you knew how the admin system works here about PBC's, Please Rephrases, and Blocks.
I'm glad you've found a way to feel good about yourself. It sounds like it's a buffer to some extent against the pain you describe. I also think it's valuable to hear what has worked for others.
I respect your right to hold the views about others you seem to. I have no problem with you holding those views, personally. However, it may be difficult to express them fully here, given the civility guidelines. Some content and views are trickier to post than others.
I hope you decide to stay.
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on June 22, 2006, at 13:36:24
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:10:15
Please don't go. I do understand a lot of what you are saying, even if you are having trouble saying it.
"or whether or not it will rain tomorrow (if it rains, it rains, nothing I can do about it.)"but - when you live in hurricaine country or tornado alley or a very flood zone area, watching the weather can make a huge difference in your life.
one man's trivial.....
Posted by TexasChic on June 22, 2006, at 18:19:02
In reply to Above to all, not specifically to TC--d'oh! (nm), posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 18:04:44
Posted by TexasChic on June 22, 2006, at 18:21:32
In reply to You're just always picking on me aren't you??? ;-) (nm) » gardenergirl, posted by TexasChic on June 22, 2006, at 18:19:02
Posted by TexasChic on June 22, 2006, at 18:40:59
In reply to Re: Please rephrase (leaving psybabble) » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 22, 2006, at 0:30:54
Really, its just a matter of us all trying to make this thing work. This is a new territory, written word with no facial expressions or tone to guide you. What means one thing to one person, may be interpreted a completely different way by another. So we have people who try to point out when what we have said might be misunderstood. Its not an insult, just an effort on all our parts to figure out how to make this work without people getting hurt because of a misinterpretation.
Whatever I post, I post thinking its okay. I don't intentionally post stuff that will upset people. But if what I say can be interpreted in a way I'm just not seeing, then I would want someone to point it out to me. Everybody is still learning here. Hopefully one day we will be able to express things without misunderstanding, but until then, we have the deputies that watch out for us.
Please don't take it personally Michael. I let you know I understood what you were trying to say. What you said wasn't wrong, but if people misinterpret it and get offended, then we've got to figure out how to make it right for everyone. Its just a technicality. Please don't leave because of this.
-T
Posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2006, at 21:52:25
In reply to It was obvious I was kidding, right? (nm), posted by TexasChic on June 22, 2006, at 18:21:32
Posted by Michael83 on June 22, 2006, at 23:00:18
In reply to Dude, don't leave., posted by TexasChic on June 22, 2006, at 18:40:59
I know, but I'm sure a lot of people will still point me out as "that arrogant guy."
I won't leave, but I should just keep quiet and not say much.
Posted by llrrrpp on June 23, 2006, at 7:26:52
In reply to Re: Dude, don't leave. » TexasChic, posted by Michael83 on June 22, 2006, at 23:00:18
I second Texas on this one!
Dont leave, Michael. You're all right. I don't think you were trying to upset anyone, you were just trying to get a little perspective, bounce some ideas around. You're very articulate, and I think you add a lot to pyshco-babble. I hope you stick around!-ll
Posted by dave45 on June 23, 2006, at 11:21:37
In reply to Re: Dude, don't leave., posted by llrrrpp on June 23, 2006, at 7:26:52
You know, this post reminds me alot of lyrics from one of my favorite bands, Less than Jake, who write alot about themes of struggling with depression.
You know, it may be me
but the parking lot with all those creeps
keeps me convincing myself I'm completely sane
my lifestyle over rated and my ideals outdated
I know that I
wouldn't have it any other wayCan't explain when this place races through my mind
can't explain but i know I, Know I
Can't explain when this place races through my mindStrung out on the future, burnt out on the past sometimes I'd rather burn this place right to the ground
and while I'm posting lyrics, here's another one that I think captures my experience with depression incredibly well
So you say
all your white flags are up and that you've had enough
and you're tried of collecting dust
and you say everything always look the same
and you made
your brand new face
to match your brand new place
you say all your distress calls have gone out
and your ship is going downwell i say to myself all the time
stop living half a life and stop feeling like I'm half aliveI can't get enough
I'm not satisfied
I've wasted my time with this daily grind
In single file lines, is this real life?
I keep telling myself sometimes
what matters is on the insideDo you remmeber when we had all the answers?
And can you really remember?
When we wished for anything better
does it feel like it's been forever
does it feel like a broken record
head full of yesterdays
you keep wishing your life away
you can't keep looking over
your own shoulder
things'll never look up unless you start to move forwardI can't get enough
I'm not satisfied
I've wasted my time with this daily grind
I can't get enough
I'm just getting by
can't stand this design for our bitter lives
I keep feeling lost
and i'm not satisfied
with traffic and turnpikes and these tired eyes
i can't get enough
I'm not satisfied
I keep telling myself sometimes
what matters is on the insideI remember on fathers day I was driving past this corporate office, looking at everybody with their suits and ties and thinking
wow, with all my problems and everything
at least i'll never turn into that
its kind of a source of prideps. no offense to anyone who works in a corporate office i share this just as my personal experience, not as a judgement
This is the end of the thread.
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