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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:06:01
*let's say you're unemployed, and jobs are scarce in your chosen profession
*you check the job opportunities within the appropriate networks/listings
*you have a friend who is employed, but wants more money so she's always looking at job opps
*you interview for a certain job that you know your friend also knew about, you let her know you did so
*now she decides she will interview for this position expressing concern that you are unemployed and will this be OK
*you say well...(because who are you to tell anyone what to do) I can't tell you not to interview
*so she interviews finally for the position after much hemming and hawing about the time of the interview - she lets the interviewer know that two of her interviewees know each other
*a few weeks later you are invited to a second interview - she is also invited for a second interview - she can't decide whether or not to go, and she calls you and speaks to you ad nauseum about whether or not she should go - seeing as it would entail taking off work and the position entails working with a particular population she'd really not like to work with so much - you don't tell her what she 'should' do because as you see it, it's not your place
*she decides not to go, but to attempt to schedule the 2nd interview at a time more convenient for her, she also inquires as to how much time she'd have to spend with the population she is not too keen on working with
*you go to the 2nd interview, you want the job. The interviewer tells you...I'll let you know in about two weeks, I have to interview everyone. I'll be interviewing your friend in a week or two
*your friend is now hemming and hawing about when it might be most convenient to have this second interview...could it possibly be the 2nd week of february?
*you have a lot of experience suited for just this position, she really doesn't, and she's not sure she'd want to get any at this particular position
*you remain unemployed, waiting, hoping
*what do you think? I'm annoyed and really anxious and I hate this.
Posted by Phil on January 27, 2006, at 15:35:35
In reply to so let me give you a hypothetical................., posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:06:01
She's a friend?
Posted by crazy teresa on January 27, 2006, at 16:04:48
In reply to Re: so let me give you a hypothetical............. » sleepygirl, posted by Phil on January 27, 2006, at 15:35:35
That's not the kind of friend most need many of.
You do know, it's ok to take care of yourself ahead of everyone else in this case? Don't divulge any info to her, regarding your job search. It sounds as if she may use any you give her against you. If she brings it up, change the subject after saying things are going fine.
Technically they are supposed to do all interviews before deciding at most places. I only know this because I was up for a 2nd interview once (internal position) and had a miscarriage. The kind lady rescheduled it after she'd heard what happened (not from me) for a few weeks later and made everyone wait. Nice for me, not the others.
So while you're waiting, should you send her a very heartfelt (not mushy or suck-up) thank you note? Or have a small boquet delivered? Not sure what the protocal is. May depend on the job.
Posted by gee on January 27, 2006, at 16:19:47
In reply to Re: so let me give you a hypothetical............. » sleepygirl, posted by Phil on January 27, 2006, at 15:35:35
I'd say becare what you say to your "friend". She kinda sounds like she's trying to discourage you from the job. I think in this situation, you need to take care of yourself first.
And I agree, send a nice thank you note for their time. That's what they were always teaching us to do in CAPP class
Posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 16:25:42
In reply to Sounds more like a self-centered twit than friend., posted by crazy teresa on January 27, 2006, at 16:04:48
> That's not the kind of friend most need many of.
>
> You do know, it's ok to take care of yourself ahead of everyone else in this case? Don't divulge any info to her, regarding your job search. It sounds as if she may use any you give her against you. If she brings it up, change the subject after saying things are going fine.
>
Thanks ct - sounds like good advice.
The thing is that I keep telling myself that she's just taking care of herself, and everyone has to right? but I think I neglected the need to take care of myself first. I mean am I expecting her to be overly concerned with me? to just "know" that this is uncomfortable. I think I was too concerned with assuaging her anxiety.Did I need to be more assertive and explicit right from the start? .....like "You will interview if you like and I cannot tell you what to do, but please know that I really need a job, and you will be competition."
but why do I need to say that? I keep thinking she wants me to tell her it is all OK....but I guess it isn't
> Technically they are supposed to do all interviews before deciding at most places. I only know this because I was up for a 2nd interview once (internal position) and had a miscarriage. The kind lady rescheduled it after she'd heard what happened (not from me) for a few weeks later and made everyone wait. Nice for me, not the others.
good to know
> So while you're waiting, should you send her a very heartfelt (not mushy or suck-up) thank you note? Or have a small boquet delivered? Not sure what the protocal is. May depend on the job.
I sent a follow up email thank you, but that sounds better, thanks.
>
>
Posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 16:28:59
In reply to With a friend like that, who needs enimies?, posted by gee on January 27, 2006, at 16:19:47
totally uncomfortable stuff......
It's hard to sort of describe this unspoken etiquette, but I think you know what I mean
What's CAPP class?
Posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 16:31:45
In reply to so let me give you a hypothetical................., posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:06:01
Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2006, at 17:56:31
In reply to Re: With a friend like that, who needs enimies? » gee, posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 16:28:59
I always sent a handwritten card after an interview thanking them for considering me for the job. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by deirdrehbrt on January 27, 2006, at 22:30:33
In reply to so let me give you a hypothetical................., posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:06:01
Sleepygirl,
I hope and pray that you get that job. It's really tough to be unemployed. When you do get it, you can say to your (whatever she is), something like "Oh, I'm SO sorry you didn't get that job, it was SO selfish of me to take it when I was merely unemployed, and you so desperately bored in your current position". or something equally obsequious.
Anyway, I'm on your side and praying for you.
--Dee
Posted by Sarah T. on January 28, 2006, at 0:39:32
In reply to so let me give you a hypothetical................., posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:06:01
I knew someone like the person (friend?) you're describing. She and I were not even in the same field, and there was no chance she'd interview for a job I was interested in, but I saw her do that to so many other people (she actually engaged in it habitually) that I gradually broke off contact with her. I just didn't like what she was doing to other people, and although I knew she wouldn't be able to bump me out of a job because we weren't in the same field, I was concerned that she might do something similar in another walk of life. At times, I thought she was remarkably unimaginative and unresourceful because she didn't seem to have the ability to think of her OWN places to apply. She only knew how to steal, or attempt to steal, jobs away from others.
I've met people who, after some bad experiences, will not tell anyone they're job-hunting until after they are secure and settled in their new position. And if they do tell others that they're job-seekers, they won't ever tell where they're applying.
Posted by sleepygirl on January 29, 2006, at 13:58:14
In reply to so let me give you a hypothetical................., posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:06:01
she did........
that's right
despite the fact that she has no experience in the particular setting the job is in, and I have busted my freakin' *ss for the past few years in the setting referred to
she must be one big f*cking bright shining star!!
well I'll just bend right the f*ck over thanks!!I'm starting to believe a couple of things:
people are self centered and dishonest and have the suckiest intentions
it doesn't matter what the f*ck you do - you are f*cked anyway
I am just f*cking inherently inferior - and thank you very f*cking much f*ckers!
-hope that helps with your f*cking sibling rivalry issues!!Hope someone else has some f*cking hope, cause I don't!!
Posted by crazy teresa on January 29, 2006, at 15:10:23
In reply to guess who got the job? (trigger?who the f*ck knows, posted by sleepygirl on January 29, 2006, at 13:58:14
I'm so sorry.
Take a deep breath.
Yes, she's catty. And yes, we'd like to gouge her eyes out for you! But do you know what's even better... heaping coals.
Send her a very nice, hand-written note of congratulations, immediately! Wish her all the best. And while you're at it, send one to those who interviewed you, if you haven't already.
This will accomplish a few of things:
It will set you on the road to releasing the anger you have about the situation. Then maybe you will be able to take a calm, logical look at the situation in a few days, and possibly see that this really wasn't where you need to be. I know you need a job, but maybe your having gotten hired would have prevented you for the job you WILL BE HIRED FOR. I know it's hard to be positive in a sitation like this, but try it this once for crazy mother teresa.
It will also make you feel better for doing the right thing, even though you don't want to. You will always regret not taking the high road. You will look back and laugh someday, and you'll feel really good about having sent them. You will feel stronger.
AND, as a bonus, if she has any concsience at all, it'll make her feel like a big fat dog turd. Which wouldn't hurt her at all, considering her history... ;~}
Don't give up hope. Especially over somebody like her. She's just not worth it and you definitely are!
xoxox
Posted by sleepygirl on January 30, 2006, at 1:22:26
In reply to Re: guess who got the job? (trigger?who the f*ck knows » sleepygirl, posted by crazy teresa on January 29, 2006, at 15:10:23
thanks ct
I really do hope you're right
Right now I'm just incredibly disappointed and really frustrated.
You sound really good at taking the high road.
Posted by sleepygirl on January 30, 2006, at 1:44:18
In reply to Re: guess who got the job? (trigger?who the f*ck knows » sleepygirl, posted by crazy teresa on January 29, 2006, at 15:10:23
you sound so..... reasonable, wise and sane for a "crazy teresa" you know - thank goodness for you (((CT)))
Posted by LegWarmers on January 30, 2006, at 8:40:04
In reply to guess who got the job? (trigger?who the f*ck knows, posted by sleepygirl on January 29, 2006, at 13:58:14
OMG Sleepy, Im so sorry. What a &*#%^$*%
That is a friend I would lose quickly if I were you. something else will come up, it will.
:( Im sorry, that sounded so awful. Maybe send it a f*ck you letter to where you interviewed and sign it "insert horrible girl's name"
Just a though ;)
Posted by AuntieMel on January 30, 2006, at 13:54:41
In reply to guess who got the job? (trigger?who the f*ck knows, posted by sleepygirl on January 29, 2006, at 13:58:14
I'm a firm believer in Karma.
A long time ago hubby got a call at night, past our bed time. <hubby and I were both unemployed at the time, mid 80s in the oil biz> It was from a guy he used to work with (also not working) telling him about an interview he had and he was offered the job (after hubby was all but told he had it) and should he take it, it's out of town, etc, etc,etc.
These guys never talked and now we get a call late at night? Sure he wanted advice! Gloating was more like it.
Fast forward a few years. In the meantime hubby went to work for a brand-new startup. Startup grew and grew, buying creeps company.
Who's the boss now? Not the creep. There was an instant about-face to major tail kissing.....
Posted by TexasChic on January 30, 2006, at 20:03:30
In reply to Re: guess who got the job? » sleepygirl, posted by AuntieMel on January 30, 2006, at 13:54:41
Yes, karma will prevail. I wouldn't be surprised if she hates the job.
Your friend obviously should have known it was in bad taste to apply for the job when you were unemployed. I know I would have never been able to do that. I have to point out though, when she asked you, you told her it was okay. That doesn't make it okay, but I think it would have probably been better to tell her up front how you really felt about it. She got her justification from you and that was good enough for her.
I'm sorry you had to go through this. I know the umemployed feeling very well. It sucks. Last year I was unjustly fired from my job and was very distraught. I was on the verge of losing my apartment when I finally got the offer for my current job. Now I'm making $3.00 more an hour, and its s-o-o-o much more pleasant. Getting fired from there was the best thing that ever happened to me! It was one of those places that sucked you in and made you complacent even though you hated it there. I could still be stuck in that h*ll hole! So try to think of it as it just wasn't meant to be. Wish her luck and know you'll find something better.
-T
P.S. It was a 'friend' who got me fired. I had so much dirt on her and debated heavily about getting her back. I really could have too. But I decided that was being negative, which just brings on more negativity. I held my ground, and waited to see if this karma thing would really work. Her apartment was broken into two weeks later and they stole EVERYTHING. And now I have a substantionally better job than she does, and she's stuck at that horrible place (that she hated as well). Of couse I don't revel in her misfortune. Wishing ill will on her will change nothing about my situation. But it is interesting to step back and see that everyone seemed to get what they deserved in the end.
Posted by TexasChic on January 30, 2006, at 20:11:40
In reply to Re: With a friend like that, who needs enimies?, posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2006, at 17:56:31
> I always sent a handwritten card after an interview thanking them for considering me for the job. Fondly, Phillipa
BTW, I've also heard that a handwritten card is considered the most professional, even above a thank you email.
-T
Posted by Sarah T. on January 31, 2006, at 0:51:36
In reply to Re: guess who got the job? (trigger?who the f*ck knows » sleepygirl, posted by crazy teresa on January 29, 2006, at 15:10:23
Crazy Theresa,
Hi. I disagree with you. I do think Sleepygirl should send the employer a thank you note, letting them know she is still interested in the firm if anything else opens up. However, I do not think she should send a note to the one who stole the job from her. That thief should send Sleepy girl a thank you note.
Sleepy girl, if you're reading this, I'm so sorry this happened to you. Sadly, this is what a lot of the world is like. Try not to be too bitter about it, but in the future, try to be more guarded when you're applying for jobs. Frankly, I wouldn't tell anyone which organizations you're applying to until you are firmly and securely ensconced in your new position.
Sarah
Posted by crazy teresa on January 31, 2006, at 5:47:26
In reply to Sleepygirl and Crazy Theresa » crazy teresa, posted by Sarah T. on January 31, 2006, at 0:51:36
> Crazy Theresa,
>
> Hi. I disagree with you. I do think Sleepygirl should send the employer a thank you note, letting them know she is still interested in the firm if anything else opens up. However, I do not think she should send a note to the one who stole the job from her. That thief should send Sleepy girl a thank you note.
Hey Sarah,My point exactly. She doesn't deserve the simple consideration of a congratulatory note. But if she gives her one anyway, sleepy will feel better and maybe her 'friend' will feel like the heel she really is...
It's much more 'civil' than getting in her face and telling her what a worthless skank she is. Also much more effective in getting a point across.
Plus, it's a goal that bobster has for us! ;~}
Posted by JenStar on January 31, 2006, at 9:39:46
In reply to Re: guess who got the job? (trigger?who the f*ck knows » sleepygirl, posted by crazy teresa on January 29, 2006, at 15:10:23
hi sleepgirl,
I'm SO sorry this happened to you. Your friend, from the way you describe it, sounds like the kind of person who takes advantage and then gets away with it because she's a "friend."Here's what I would do:
First, CALL the interviewer and politely ask for a few minutes of their time. Thank him/her in person for the opportunity. Tell him/her that you're EXTREMELY interested in their company, and would like to work there in the future. Ask him/her why you were not hired, and ask for tips on how to improve your skills in the future so that you COULD be hired. Be extremely friendly and non-defensive (it might be hard!) The person will be sort of "on the spot" and you want honesty from them so you know what to work on. You could even tell them that: "I would like to know what to work on, so I can improve my skills and be more competitive next time I interview. Can you help give me some tips on what the other candidate demonstrated that made her the right fit for the job?"
Listen, take notes (even if you disagree), and thank him/her.
Like others mentioned, then send a thank-you note to the interviewer, and remind him/her that you'd love a chance to interview in the future, and you admire their company.
About your friend -- I would not send her a congrats note. I'd meet with her and say face to face, "It hurt me that you interviewed and GOT the same job I wanted. I understand that jobs are fair game, but it hurt me. Why did you do it?"
Put HER on the spot!
Anyway, I'm sorry this happened.
take care,
JenStar
Posted by sleepygirl on January 31, 2006, at 10:32:08
In reply to so let me give you a hypothetical................., posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:06:01
So I have gotten some really thoughtful advice on this board - (bows in appreciation)
As of now, I'm sending a brief thank you note for consideration.
I realize that perhaps I did not anticipate how this whole process might go down from the get go, and I think I needed to be a bit more clear (in myself and with her) about what I needed.
When she wanted an "OK" about interviewing, and I said I couldn't tell her what to do I missed an opportunity I guess.I'm still annoyed of course that she wanted me to tell her what to do without realizing that I am just doing what I need to do, and I need to focus on that - I sort of feel like people should 'just know', and decide for themselves what they will do according to their own conscience.
In this process I think she used the info she got from me to her best interest, and that sort of bugs me. It's about paying the bills after all - important stuff.
I'm still hurt/angry/sad(all that), but in the interest of changing ineffective ways of how I deal with certain things I let her know I want to sit down and talk to her about it. For better or for worse it is what it is - it's done so I might as well deal with it.
I hope it goes well. Thanks everyone. :-)
-sleepygirl
Posted by TexasChic on January 31, 2006, at 19:13:21
In reply to Re: guess who got the job? (trigger?who the f*ck knows » crazy teresa, posted by JenStar on January 31, 2006, at 9:39:46
> First, CALL the interviewer and politely ask for a few minutes of their time. Thank him/her in person for the opportunity. Tell him/her that you're EXTREMELY interested in their company, and would like to work there in the future. Ask him/her why you were not hired, and ask for tips on how to improve your skills in the future so that you COULD be hired.
I've done this, it was very helpful!
-T
Posted by TexasChic on January 31, 2006, at 19:19:27
In reply to an update, posted by sleepygirl on January 31, 2006, at 10:32:08
Sounds like you're handling it very well. Its always hard to maintain your maturity in these situations - believe me, I know. But later I bet you'll be glad you did.
-T
This is the end of the thread.
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