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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 69. Go back in thread:
Posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 19:20:45
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing?, posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 16:21:28
Posted by KaraS on February 23, 2005, at 0:34:47
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing?, posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 16:21:28
> Unfortunately I haven't seen any interesting documtaries lately, but I did want to check up on you to see if you are hanging in there. Our local news is having a segment on depression/mental illness tonight, so I will be watching that at 6 p.m. Anyway, I hope the anxiety isn't getting the better of you. My thoughts are with you. Take care.
>
> Tamara
Hi there,
I'm doing a bit better. The anxiety is much better. That 25 mg. of doxepin has been a life saver. For some reason my spirits have been higher the last couple of days too. I've felt more like myself. I'm not sure why. It may be because I've used my lightbox for the last 3 mornings for over an hour each time. My friend did some Reiki healing (with special rocks - crystals, obsidian, etc.) on me recently and she's convinced that's why I'm doing better. I'm not so sure - I'm very skeptical but I suppose it's possible.I had been exercising as well but now that the torrential rains are back here in southern California, I've been housebound. Hopefully that will stop sometime soon before I lose all improvement. I haven't driven in over a month because of my anxiety. I've been feeling ready to get back in the car but want to wait until after all of this rain is out of here. The traffic has been horrible (even worse than usual) and people in this part of the country don't know how to drive in this weather. They scare me.
I started on a very small amount of Zoloft a couple of days ago. I've tolerated it well so I am planning on taking 50-100 mg. day in order to help more with anxiety and mood (without taking away all of my motivation). Then I think I may try adding in Wellbutrin or supplements for more motivation. If all that doesn't work out, then maybe the selegiline patch will be out by then.
How about you? Have you started the Provigil yet?
Have you followed the posts on CES (cranial electrical stimulation) on the main board. (Did I ask you that already?) It sounds fascinating to me. If it works, it's a good way to get all of the neurotransmitters invovled. I'm going to read the book that is recommended in the thread.Thanks for your continued support. It's so nice to talk to someone who understands. I'm hoping for the best for both of us.
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 23, 2005, at 10:17:40
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 23, 2005, at 0:34:47
Hi Kara,
> I'm doing a bit better. The anxiety is much better. That 25 mg. of doxepin has been a life saver. For some reason my spirits have been higher the last couple of days too. I've felt more like myself. I'm not sure why. It may be because I've used my lightbox for the last 3 mornings for over an hour each time. My friend did some Reiki healing (with special rocks - crystals, obsidian, etc.) on me recently and she's convinced that's why I'm doing better. I'm not so sure - I'm very skeptical but I suppose it's possible.
-- That is great news! I soooo happy for you. After all you have been through, you deserve it! I have always wanted to try reiki. Like you, though, I am skeptical. Anyway, whether you have benefitted from the lightbox or the reiki or a combination of the lightbox, the reiki and the meds, all I can say is YEAH for Kara! I have tried acupunture and hypnosis. The acupuncture helped a bit. It probably would have helped more if, at the time, I had not been dealing with the severe iron deficiency. But, I will say, that after a treatment I felt a sense of calm energy (does that even make sense?). The hypnosis was not for me and I don't think I benefitted at all from it. But, it was worth a try.
>
> I had been exercising as well but now that the torrential rains are back here in southern California, I've been housebound. Hopefully that will stop sometime soon before I lose all improvement. I haven't driven in over a month because of my anxiety. I've been feeling ready to get back in the car but want to wait until after all of this rain is out of here. The traffic has been horrible (even worse than usual) and people in this part of the country don't know how to drive in this weather. They scare me.-- Good for you getting back into exercising. I have started again (slowly) as well. It really makes a difference. I was pretty much housebound for a while as well. It starts to take a toll after a while. Hey, and feeling ready to drive again is real progress. You should be proud of yourself Kara. The weather you are experiencing must be depressing in itself. It always amazes me just how much the weather, particularly rainy days, can affect our moods. I hope the rains let up soon. I imagine after a while it can get kind of scary.
> I started on a very small amount of Zoloft a couple of days ago. I've tolerated it well so I am planning on taking 50-100 mg. day in order to help more with anxiety and mood (without taking away all of my motivation). Then I think I may try adding in Wellbutrin or supplements for more motivation. If all that doesn't work out, then maybe the selegiline patch will be out by then.
-- That's good that you have tolerated the Zoloft so far. I hope it continues to provide you with much needed relief and mood elevation. Did you decide against Remeron because of the possibility of weight gain? Wellbutrin would likely be a good augmenter. Are you not concerned about the adverse effects you experienced the last time you tried it? Or, are you hoping that you will be able to tolerate a low dose and get some benefit from that?
> How about you? Have you started the Provigil yet?-- I am only on day 2, but I notice a bit of a difference in terms of motivation and energy even at the low starting dose of 50mg. But, I have also started drinking coffee again. I didn't realize how much I missed the lift I get from coffee. It's nice. Anyway, hopefully I will notice more of an effect when I go up to 100 mg. I go back to work in a few weeks (after a lengthy leave), and I am so worried that I won't be able to do it and that I will be a total failure and a disappointment :-(. Fortunately, I do not have to return to the office right away. I will be going on language training so that I can enhance my linguistic profile. That will be a nice transition back into the fray (I hope).
> Have you followed the posts on CES (cranial electrical stimulation) on the main board. (Did I ask you that already?) It sounds fascinating to me. If it works, it's a good way to get all of the neurotransmitters invovled. I'm going to read the book that is recommended in the thread.
-- I haven't been following the thread (and no, you hadn't asked :-)). I will read it today. I had heard about something called cranio-sacral therapy a while ago (not sure if that is the same as cranial stimulation). But the procedure I had read about (I was interested and was sort of considering pursuing it) involved something like a ballon up the nose (I can't remember the details, and am probably all confused) and some of the side effects that one could experience sounded very unpleasant (massive headaches, passing out). I guess it was the procedure that freaked me out and clinched it for me that I would probably not try it.
> Thanks for your continued support. It's so nice to talk to someone who understands. I'm hoping for the best for both of us.-- My pleasure, and any time. And, I thank you for all of your support and understanding. I am hoping for the best for both of us as well.
Take good care of yourself.
>
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 23, 2005, at 15:53:09
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 23, 2005, at 10:17:40
> Hi Tamara,
>
> > I'm doing a bit better. The anxiety is much better. That 25 mg. of doxepin has been a life saver. For some reason my spirits have been higher the last couple of days too. I've felt more like myself. I'm not sure why. It may be because I've used my lightbox for the last 3 mornings for over an hour each time. My friend did some Reiki healing (with special rocks - crystals, obsidian, etc.) on me recently and she's convinced that's why I'm doing better. I'm not so sure - I'm very skeptical but I suppose it's possible.
>
> -- That is great news! I soooo happy for you. After all you have been through, you deserve it! I have always wanted to try reiki. Like you, though, I am skeptical. Anyway, whether you have benefitted from the lightbox or the reiki or a combination of the lightbox, the reiki and the meds, all I can say is YEAH for Kara! I have tried acupunture and hypnosis. The acupuncture helped a bit. It probably would have helped more if, at the time, I had not been dealing with the severe iron deficiency. But, I will say, that after a treatment I felt a sense of calm energy (does that even make sense?). The hypnosis was not for me and I don't think I benefitted at all from it. But, it was worth a try.***Today I don't feel as good. Two steps forward and one step back I guess. I've been using the lightbox each day so I don't know how to account for the difference. Maybe the reiki did do something. Also, this weather is getting to me. Tomorrow is supposed to finally be decent. Then we get three more nice days and then several more days of rain. It's just unbelievable.
***I haven't gotten acupuncture yet though I do have a book here on acupressure that I haven't really practiced yet. I think those things can work if you don't have nutritional deficiciencies or dehydration.
> > I had been exercising as well but now that the torrential rains are back here in southern California, I've been housebound. Hopefully that will stop sometime soon before I lose all improvement. I haven't driven in over a month because of my anxiety. I've been feeling ready to get back in the car but want to wait until after all of this rain is out of here. The traffic has been horrible (even worse than usual) and people in this part of the country don't know how to drive in this weather. They scare me.
>
> -- Good for you getting back into exercising. I have started again (slowly) as well. It really makes a difference. I was pretty much housebound for a while as well. It starts to take a toll after a while. Hey, and feeling ready to drive again is real progress. You should be proud of yourself Kara. The weather you are experiencing must be depressing in itself. It always amazes me just how much the weather, particularly rainy days, can affect our moods. I hope the rains let up soon. I imagine after a while it can get kind of scary.***I imagine that winter in Canada is no fun either -especially if you're hand is in a cast.
> > I started on a very small amount of Zoloft a couple of days ago. I've tolerated it well so I am planning on taking 50-100 mg. day in order to help more with anxiety and mood (without taking away all of my motivation). Then I think I may try adding in Wellbutrin or supplements for more motivation. If all that doesn't work out, then maybe the selegiline patch will be out by then.
>
> -- That's good that you have tolerated the Zoloft so far. I hope it continues to provide you with much needed relief and mood elevation. Did you decide against Remeron because of the possibility of weight gain? Wellbutrin would likely be a good augmenter. Are you not concerned about the adverse effects you experienced the last time you tried it? Or, are you hoping that you will be able to tolerate a low dose and get some benefit from that?***I think the Zoloft is starting to make me more anxious now. I've been taking it at night and I had a hard time getting to sleep last night. I'll try taking it during the day instead but it might not be a good plan for me now. I am afraid of the same side effects from the Wellbutrin but I still want to try it again in case it was just chest muscle tightness or a reaction to an excipient. I'm not hopeful about being able to take it but it might be worth another try.
> > How about you? Have you started the Provigil yet?
>
> -- I am only on day 2, but I notice a bit of a difference in terms of motivation and energy even at the low starting dose of 50mg. But, I have also started drinking coffee again. I didn't realize how much I missed the lift I get from coffee. It's nice. Anyway, hopefully I will notice more of an effect when I go up to 100 mg. I go back to work in a few weeks (after a lengthy leave), and I am so worried that I won't be able to do it and that I will be a total failure and a disappointment :-(. Fortunately, I do not have to return to the office right away. I will be going on language training so that I can enhance my linguistic profile. That will be a nice transition back into the fray (I hope).***That's wonderful news that you're tolerating the Provigil well and that you notice improvement already. Sounds very promising!
***It's great that you have this time off and that you have a job to go back to. Did you take a leave for health reasons? I'm glad you have the language training to help you ease into the work situation. I understand that you're scared about going back but I bet you'll feel ready when the time comes.
> > Have you followed the posts on CES (cranial electrical stimulation) on the main board. (Did I ask you that already?) It sounds fascinating to me. If it works, it's a good way to get all of the neurotransmitters invovled. I'm going to read the book that is recommended in the thread.
>
> -- I haven't been following the thread (and no, you hadn't asked :-)). I will read it today. I had heard about something called cranio-sacral therapy a while ago (not sure if that is the same as cranial stimulation). But the procedure I had read about (I was interested and was sort of considering pursuing it) involved something like a ballon up the nose (I can't remember the details, and am probably all confused) and some of the side effects that one could experience sounded very unpleasant (massive headaches, passing out). I guess it was the procedure that freaked me out and clinched it for me that I would probably not try it.***No, this is nothing like the procedure you describe. I'm curious to hear what you think. Even Larry thought it sounded promising and not just another quack therapy thing. Unfortunately it requires a prescription or use in a doctor's office and it doesn't sound like your doctor would ever go for it. You can actually buy these things for yourself. Maybe your family doctor would go for it if you wanted to try it. Hopefully you won't need to look further once you up your dosage of Provigil, but it's something to keep in mind. I think I'll wait and see how others are doing on it before I try to scrape up some money.
> > Thanks for your continued support. It's so nice to talk to someone who understands. I'm hoping for the best for both of us.
>
> -- My pleasure, and any time. And, I thank you for all of your support and understanding. I am hoping for the best for both of us as well.
>
> Take good care of yourself.
> >
> Tamara
>
>
You take care too.
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 23, 2005, at 16:46:53
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 23, 2005, at 15:53:09
> > Hi Kara,
> >
> ***Today I don't feel as good. Two steps forward and one step back I guess. I've been using the lightbox each day so I don't know how to account for the difference. Maybe the reiki did do something. Also, this weather is getting to me. Tomorrow is supposed to finally be decent. Then we get three more nice days and then several more days of rain. It's just unbelievable.-- Oh Kara, I'm so sorry to hear that :-( Would your friend give you another Reiki treatment? Then at least you would know if it helped. You also mentioned you were using the lightbox for over a half an hour at a time. Maybe you are getting some serotonin overload? I can imagine how the weather would be getting to you. A rainy day or two is nice once in a while, but day after day can be draining. I hope it lets up for an extended period of time soon. But, enjoy the nice days when you have them.
> ***I haven't gotten acupuncture yet though I do have a book here on acupressure that I haven't really practiced yet. I think those things can work if you don't have nutritional deficiciencies or dehydration.-- That's what the accupunturist told me. I did notice an improvement, but she told me that I would notice an even better improvement when the iron deficiency was taken care of. I am thinking of going back in the spring. It wasn't expensive, and my insurance will cover 80% of the cost up to a certain amount. And, she was really good and knowledgeable.
> ***I imagine that winter in Canada is no fun either -especially if you're hand is in a cast.
-- No, it was a drag! I usually enjoy the winter for the most part, and try to stay active with walking and stuff. When I had the cast on, I couldn't get a really good winter coat on or even mitts. And, we were having a real cold spell (about -30 to -40 with the wind), so it was really not possible to get out when I couldn't bundle up. Excuses, excuses!
>> ***I think the Zoloft is starting to make me more anxious now. I've been taking it at night and I had a hard time getting to sleep last night. I'll try taking it during the day instead but it might not be a good plan for me now. I am afraid of the same side effects from the Wellbutrin but I still want to try it again in case it was just chest muscle tightness or a reaction to an excipient. I'm not hopeful about being able to take it but it might be worth another try.
-- That's too bad about the Zoloft. I can't hurt to try it during the day to see if you can tolerate it. And, you could always take a small amount of niacinimide to quell the anxiety, couldn't you? And, it is worth trying the Wellbutrin again. I mean, look at how differently you responded to Effexor the second time. A second trial of Wellbutrin may well yield different results too. Good luck with that!
> ***That's wonderful news that you're tolerating the Provigil well and that you notice improvement already. Sounds very promising!
-- I hope it works. My mood was improving somewhat before I started taking it (maybe because I was eating better and had a number of nights of uninterrupted sleep). So, what I am really struggling with now is lack of motivation and some apathy. It's scary to feel like that because you know you want to do things, but you just can't seem to get going. Yuk!
>
>
> ***It's great that you have this time off and that you have a job to go back to. Did you take a leave for health reasons? I'm glad you have the language training to help you ease into the work situation. I understand that you're scared about going back but I bet you'll feel ready when the time comes.-- Ya, I had to (I have felt so ashamed about that, but I realize now that these things happen). It was hard, and I was beating myself up and berating myself for a while for having to take a leave. I felt like such a disappointment to everyone - like I let everyone down. But, I am dealing with those feelings. So, hopefully I will one day not be so angry with myself, particularly for something I had no control over.
>
> ***No, this is nothing like the procedure you describe. I'm curious to hear what you think. Even Larry thought it sounded promising and not just another quack therapy thing. Unfortunately it requires a prescription or use in a doctor's office and it doesn't sound like your doctor would ever go for it. You can actually buy these things for yourself. Maybe your family doctor would go for it if you wanted to try it. Hopefully you won't need to look further once you up your dosage of Provigil, but it's something to keep in mind. I think I'll wait and see how others are doing on it before I try to scrape up some money.-- I haven't read the thread yet, but have bookmarked it and will read it tonight. I don't know if I told you, but I have lost my family doctor. She has had to close her practice due to illness. I am so upset :-( Not because I have to find a new doctor, but because she was such a great doctor - very thorough and knowledgeable. She has been my doctor for close to ten years, and she understands many of the problems I have had because she has experienced them herself (including panic and anxiety which she talked about openly with me). But, now I can probably change pdocs if I chose to. I don't think I would have been able to do that with her because your family doctor needs to refer you, and the pdoc she referred me to was not only a long-time friend of hers, but someone she respected greatly.
I wish you all the best Kara. Take care, and keep hanging in there.
> > >
> > Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 23, 2005, at 22:23:56
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 23, 2005, at 16:46:53
Hi,
> -- Oh Kara, I'm so sorry to hear that :-( Would your friend give you another Reiki treatment? Then at least you would know if it helped. You also mentioned you were using the lightbox for over a half an hour at a time. Maybe you are getting some serotonin overload? I can imagine how the weather would be getting to you. A rainy day or two is nice once in a while, but day after day can be draining. I hope it lets up for an extended period of time soon. But, enjoy the nice days when you have them.
Thanks. It was a real bummer to wake up and not feel the same as yesterday. It's so strange and disturbing.> -- That's what the accupunturist told me. I did notice an improvement, but she told me that I would notice an even better improvement when the iron deficiency was taken care of. I am thinking of going back in the spring. It wasn't expensive, and my insurance will cover 80% of the cost up to a certain amount. And, she was really good and knowledgeable.
Someday I'll try that as well. For now I hope to discipline myself more to use the acupressure techinques. If you have so much of it covered by insurance, then you should definitely try it again.
> -- No, it was a drag! I usually enjoy the winter for the most part, and try to stay active with walking and stuff. When I had the cast on, I couldn't get a really good winter coat on or even mitts. And, we were having a real cold spell (about -30 to -40 with the wind), so it was really not possible to get out when I couldn't bundle up. Excuses, excuses!Sounds more like a good reason than an excuse to me. After hearing about the -30 and -40 degrees out there, I think I should stop complaining about rain.
> -- That's too bad about the Zoloft. I can't hurt to try it during the day to see if you can tolerate it. And, you could always take a small amount of niacinimide to quell the anxiety, couldn't you? And, it is worth trying the Wellbutrin again. I mean, look at how differently you responded to Effexor the second time. A second trial of Wellbutrin may well yield different results too. Good luck with that!
I'll try the Zoloft tomorrow during the day. I'm only on 12.5 mg. so I'm not terribly optimistic about being able to get to a therapeutic dosage. I don't think the niacinamide would do much either because it didn't help against my sensitivity from the Effexor. Wellbutrin trial is way off in the future but I agree it's worth another shot.
> -- I hope it works. My mood was improving somewhat before I started taking it (maybe because I was eating better and had a number of nights of uninterrupted sleep). So, what I am really struggling with now is lack of motivation and some apathy. It's scary to feel like that because you know you want to do things, but you just can't seem to get going. Yuk!
I know. The apathy is a tough one. I struggled with that for a long time. I didn't fully understand how much the medication was adding to that before I started hanging out here. Now I'm beginning to forgive myself for not getting anything accomplished in these last few years.
I had to take some time off from a job many years ago. It felt like failure at first but it was the best thing I ever did (not that I really had a choice - I wasn't functioning well at all). I needed to get healthy again and get the anxiety under control. Then I went back to the job healthier, calmer and in control. If you can, try to think of your time off as you doing something wonderful for yourself in order to take care of yourself.
>
> -- Ya, I had to (I have felt so ashamed about that, but I realize now that these things happen). It was hard, and I was beating myself up and berating myself for a while for having to take a leave. I felt like such a disappointment to everyone - like I let everyone down. But, I am dealing with those feelings. So, hopefully I will one day not be so angry with myself, particularly for something I had no control over.Absolutely you need to forgive yourself because you did nothing wrong. You were sick and you needed to take time off to get well again. It's not easy to stop feeling guilty about it - especially if you're a perfectionist like me and expect that you have to live up to unrealistic standards.
Have you ever read the book "The Power of Now" by Eckart Tolle? I just ordered it from the library. I have a feeling it's the kind of book you would enjoy and that might help you with some things. I'll let you know how I find it.
> -- I haven't read the thread yet, but have bookmarked it and will read it tonight. I don't know if I told you, but I have lost my family doctor. She has had to close her practice due to illness. I am so upset :-( Not because I have to find a new doctor, but because she was such a great doctor - very thorough and knowledgeable. She has been my doctor for close to ten years, and she understands many of the problems I have had because she has experienced them herself (including panic and anxiety which she talked about openly with me). But, now I can probably change pdocs if I chose to. I don't think I would have been able to do that with her because your family doctor needs to refer you, and the pdoc she referred me to was not only a long-time friend of hers, but someone she respected greatly.The CES thread starts before the three posts that are showing now on the board. It might make sense to start at the beginning.
That's too bad about your gp doctor. It's so hard to find good ones who will listen to you and work with you (let alone one who has experienced it herself and openly talks about it). Did she refer you to someone else who is good? On the bright side, if you need to change pdocs, now you can. Hopefully you won't need to but it's nice to have that safety net.
Wishing you the best too,
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 24, 2005, at 10:48:36
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 23, 2005, at 22:23:56
> Hi,
>
>
> Thanks. It was a real bummer to wake up and not feel the same as yesterday. It's so strange and disturbing.-- Bummer is putting it mildly! When it has happened to me, I found it unnerving and demoralizing, to say the least. But, I am sure ou can and will have more good days like that one Kara. It will happen, just not fast enough I know, but it will. I have faith.
> Someday I'll try that as well. For now I hope to discipline myself more to use the acupressure techinques. If you have so much of it covered by insurance, then you should definitely try it again.-- I think the accupressure can yield similar, revitalizing and calming results. And, if you can do it yourself, that's great! When you get going with it, I would be interested in hearing how you do. So, if you don't mind, keep me posted ok.
> Sounds more like a good reason than an excuse to me. After hearing about the -30 and -40 degrees out there, I think I should stop complaining about rain.-- You get used to the cold weather. As long as you dress for it, you are not forced to hibernate. But some days . . . ouch! One time when my dad went skiing, the temperature, with the windchill, was almost -60 at the top of the mountain (and, that can be even more brutal when you are riding up on the chairlift). He skied all morning and ended up with really bad frostbite on his face. He sure learned his lesson! But the rain . . . Now, that is another story all together. I would be complaining too if it went on for days and days. At least with bitter cold weather there are still bright, sunny days to take the sting out. But rain, dark and overcast, day after day, can take its toll after a while. No, you have every right to complain.
>
> I'll try the Zoloft tomorrow during the day. I'm only on 12.5 mg. so I'm not terribly optimistic about being able to get to a therapeutic dosage. I don't think the niacinamide would do much either because it didn't help against my sensitivity from the Effexor. Wellbutrin trial is way off in the future but I agree it's worth another shot.-- That's too bad about the niacinamide. I know you don't like benzos, but maybe you can ask your pdoc about a VERY small script just to help quell the start-up anxiety so that you can try to titrate to a therapeutic dose. By the way, have you had your thyroid function tested recently? Maybe your thyroid med needs to be adjusted. Also, is Remeron completely off the table? I don't blame you for holding off on the Wellbutrin trial. You are wise.
> I know. The apathy is a tough one. I struggled with that for a long time. I didn't fully understand how much the medication was adding to that before I started hanging out here. Now I'm beginning to forgive myself for not getting anything accomplished in these last few years.-- I agree with you. If I hadn't stumbled across Psychobabble, I would have never known just how common it is. Like you, I am beginning to forgive myself. Although we don't always believe it, we can't always control these things. It's so hard to forgive ourselves, yet so easy to forgive others. We are our own worst enemies sometimes.
>
> I had to take some time off from a job many years ago. It felt like failure at first but it was the best thing I ever did (not that I really had a choice - I wasn't functioning well at all). I needed to get healthy again and get the anxiety under control. Then I went back to the job healthier, calmer and in control. If you can, try to think of your time off as you doing something wonderful for yourself in order to take care of yourself.-- I have always worried about letting others down and disappointing them. I know now, at least I think I do, that I was really only disappointing myself. When I first got sick, I was really ignoring the deleterious effects the iron deficiency was having on my physical and mental health. So, instead of letting my body heal, I kept pushing myself to exercise, socialize, and just generally keep very busy. I was treating my recovery as if I was treating only an agitated depression. And, all I ended up doing was making myself more physically exhausted and more depressed and anxious. Once I started taking it easy and accepting my temporary limitations, I started to feel a bit better. But, then there was the bad reaction to Depo and then the fractured wrist and resulting surgery. But now, I am hoping that I can move forward and regain my enthusiasm and energy. Time will tell I guess.
> >
> Absolutely you need to forgive yourself because you did nothing wrong. You were sick and you needed to take time off to get well again. It's not easy to stop feeling guilty about it - especially if you're a perfectionist like me and expect that you have to live up to unrealistic standards.-- Self-forgiveness is so hard don't you think. I would never think badly of a friend or colleague who had to take time off for health reasons, and would offer as much support as possible and encourage them to just think of themselves and their own needs and recovery. Yet, with myself, it is unacceptable. But, like you, I am learning I think. I hope.
> Have you ever read the book "The Power of Now" by Eckart Tolle? I just ordered it from the library. I have a feeling it's the kind of book you would enjoy and that might help you with some things. I'll let you know how I find it.
-- I haven't. But, thanks for the suggestion, I'll check it out. I have been reading "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron, on the recommendation of my pdoc. I had put it aside for a while, but I am going to finish it in the next few days (it is a very short book).
>
> That's too bad about your gp doctor. It's so hard to find good ones who will listen to you and work with you (let alone one who has experienced it herself and openly talks about it). Did she refer you to someone else who is good? On the bright side, if you need to change pdocs, now you can. Hopefully you won't need to but it's nice to have that safety net.-- I'm worried about her. I had a follow-up appointment with her in late November to have my iron levels checked again, and she seemed to be fine. I just don't know what could have happened. She has always been really fiesty - a real go-getter. Mind you, she was somewhat of an "A" type personality and she was overweight and always seemed to have a diet coke in her hand. So, who knows. I am going to send her a card to let her know my thoughts are with her (I am one of those card people). It always freaks her out, but she is used to me (I send her thank yous once in a while and Christmas cards). I am going to have to make some calls to try to find a doctor in my area who is taking patients. That's a drag!
Take care of yourself Kara. My thoughts are with you, and I wish you nothing but the best.Tamara
>
Posted by KaraS on February 24, 2005, at 15:25:55
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 24, 2005, at 10:48:36
Hi,
> -- Bummer is putting it mildly! When it has happened to me, I found it unnerving and demoralizing, to say the least. But, I am sure ou can and will have more good days like that one Kara. It will happen, just not fast enough I know, but it will. I have faith.
Yeah, we just have to keep telling ourselves that this is how recovery is. It's not neat and perfect. You have your good days and your not so good days. Still, it's hard to take when you've just come off of two really good days. I am better today again because I didn't take any Zoloft last night. I'm not as anxious and dysfunctional now.
> -- I think the accupressure can yield similar, revitalizing and calming results. And, if you can do it yourself, that's great! When you get going with it, I would be interested in hearing how you do. So, if you don't mind, keep me posted ok.Last night I started practicing it a bit. I was trying to get familiar with the exercises rather than doing the exact sequences prescribed for anxiety. The first time I did some practicing I didn't really feel much but last night I definitely felt calmer and better. That gives me the impetus to pursue this further. I'll definitely keep you posted.
> -- You get used to the cold weather. As long as you dress for it, you are not forced to hibernate. But some days . . . ouch! One time when my dad went skiing, the temperature, with the windchill, was almost -60 at the top of the mountain (and, that can be even more brutal when you are riding up on the chairlift). He skied all morning and ended up with really bad frostbite on his face. He sure learned his lesson! But the rain . . . Now, that is another story all together. I would be complaining too if it went on for days and days. At least with bitter cold weather there are still bright, sunny days to take the sting out. But rain, dark and overcast, day after day, can take its toll after a while. No, you have every right to complain.
I grew up in upstate New York and up until the last 5 years I have lived in cold weather climates. I never got used to it. In fact, it got worse in the last few years. That's because of my hypothryoid problems though. Still, I'd prefer a nice 30 degree day with sunshine and no wind to this horrible rain we've been having. Today is sunny here. Yay!!! (So what am I doing inside on-line with my lightbox on?)
Your dad is such a character!! I can't believe anyone could ski in -60 degree weather and while moving up the ski lift?????
> -- That's too bad about the niacinamide. I know you don't like benzos, but maybe you can ask your pdoc about a VERY small script just to help quell the start-up anxiety so that you can try to titrate to a therapeutic dose. By the way, have you had your thyroid function tested recently? Maybe your thyroid med needs to be adjusted. Also, is Remeron completely off the table? I don't blame you for holding off on the Wellbutrin trial. You are wise.
My doctor already prescribed Xanax for me. I have it here. I've only taken one half of a pill so far. It helped me sleep one night. I think you're right that I may need to take benzos for a while so I can get on the Zoloft. I think I'm going to try increasing the doxepin by a quarter of a pill every few days. That might help me do it without benzos. We'll see. Remeron isn't completely off of the table either but I am afraid of the weight gain. I'm also considering clomipramine at least temporarily.
> -- I agree with you. If I hadn't stumbled across Psychobabble, I would have never known just how common it is. Like you, I am beginning to forgive myself. Although we don't always believe it, we can't always control these things. It's so hard to forgive ourselves, yet so easy to forgive others. We are our own worst enemies sometimes.
Exactly right! We feel we have to be perfect but we cut others lots of slack. I read that that attitude is the ultimate in arrogance because on some level we feel we have to be better than everyone else. I am just beginning to forgive myself. I have a long way to go to be truly accepting of myself.
> -- I have always worried about letting others down and disappointing them. I know now, at least I think I do, that I was really only disappointing myself. When I first got sick, I was really ignoring the deleterious effects the iron deficiency was having on my physical and mental health. So, instead of letting my body heal, I kept pushing myself to exercise, socialize, and just generally keep very busy. I was treating my recovery as if I was treating only an agitated depression. And, all I ended up doing was making myself more physically exhausted and more depressed and anxious. Once I started taking it easy and accepting my temporary limitations, I started to feel a bit better. But, then there was the bad reaction to Depo and then the fractured wrist and resulting surgery. But now, I am hoping that I can move forward and regain my enthusiasm and energy. Time will tell I guess.
You didn't know. You thought that pushing yourself was the way to go. Now you know better and you're taking the appropriate action. You've been through a lot lately. It takes its toll. It's good that you're giving yourself the time to heal and working on your issues.
> -- I haven't. But, thanks for the suggestion, I'll check it out. I have been reading "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron, on the recommendation of my pdoc. I had put it aside for a while, but I am going to finish it in the next few days (it is a very short book).
Do you think this book you're reading now is helpful? Would you recommend it? I don't know much about the Eckhart Tolle book other than the fact that many people I know have raved about it. I'm very curious. Can't wait to pick it up later today along with the Dr. Braverman book mentioned in the CES thread.
> -- I'm worried about her. I had a follow-up appointment with her in late November to have my iron levels checked again, and she seemed to be fine. I just don't know what could have happened. She has always been really fiesty - a real go-getter. Mind you, she was somewhat of an "A" type personality and she was overweight and always seemed to have a diet coke in her hand. So, who knows. I am going to send her a card to let her know my thoughts are with her (I am one of those card people). It always freaks her out, but she is used to me (I send her thank yous once in a while and Christmas cards). I am going to have to make some calls to try to find a doctor in my area who is taking patients. That's a drag!Unfortunately people can have serious conditions and you wouldn't know by looking at them. Has she closed her practice forever or is she just taking a break with the possibility of coming back? I'm sure she'd appreciate the card. That's very sweet of you.
Wishing you all the best,
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 24, 2005, at 21:14:04
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 24, 2005, at 15:25:55
> Hi,
>
> Yeah, we just have to keep telling ourselves that this is how recovery is. It's not neat and perfect. You have your good days and your not so good days. Still, it's hard to take when you've just come off of two really good days. I am better today again because I didn't take any Zoloft last night. I'm not as anxious and dysfunctional now.
>
-- No, it certainly isn't neat and perfect. And, when we have a few good days, we really get our hopes up that maybe this is it, only to have them dashed until our next few good days. But, a few good days can lead to more, so that is something to keep us going. I think what's hard to swallow (for me at least) is that some respond so well during a first depressive episode to the first AD they are put on. And then when they need an AD again, it can result in trial after trial. I am really hoping that the Celexa/Provigil (and, maybe some NADH) will work for me. You know, I was thinking about the Zoloft, and do you think it might be a dopamine thing? I have read here a number of times that Zoloft has the most effect on dopamine of all the SSRIs (then again, that may only be at the higher doses. But, given your sensitivity . . . ). Anyway, I just thought I would put that out there FWIW.> Last night I started practicing it a bit. I was trying to get familiar with the exercises rather than doing the exact sequences prescribed for anxiety. The first time I did some practicing I didn't really feel much but last night I definitely felt calmer and better. That gives me the impetus to pursue this further. I'll definitely keep you posted.
-- That's encouraging! Feeling some relief after one trial is incentive to continue and perfect your technique. I can't wait to hear how it progresses. Good luck. I'll keep my fingers that you continue to see positive results and relief.
>
> I grew up in upstate New York and up until the last 5 years I have lived in cold weather climates. I never got used to it. In fact, it got worse in the last few years. That's because of my hypothryoid problems though. Still, I'd prefer a nice 30 degree day with sunshine and no wind to this horrible rain we've been having. Today is sunny here. Yay!!! (So what am I doing inside on-line with my lightbox on?)-- I have noticed that, as I get older, the cold seems to affect me more. I remember when I was in my teens and early to mid-20s, going out in the winter with a light coat (sometimes just a jean jacket and maybe a scarf), shoes (no boots) and no hat, and it didn't seem to be a big deal. Now, I wouldn't go out without my hat, scarf and mitts and my down-filled coat. I'm glad it was sunny where you are today. Sure makes a difference doesn't it. It was sunny here as well, but it was still -17 with the wind. But, the sun made a big difference.
>
> Your dad is such a character!! I can't believe anyone could ski in -60 degree weather and while moving up the ski lift?????-- Oh, he can be relentless at times! After that, he got himself a gortex face mask to wear on the really cold days. But, he doesn't go skiing when it is as cold as it was that day anymore (probably because he can't convince anyone to go with him! :-))
> My doctor already prescribed Xanax for me. I have it here. I've only taken one half of a pill so far. It helped me sleep one night. I think you're right that I may need to take benzos for a while so I can get on the Zoloft. I think I'm going to try increasing the doxepin by a quarter of a pill every few days. That might help me do it without benzos. We'll see. Remeron isn't completely off of the table either but I am afraid of the weight gain. I'm also considering clomipramine at least temporarily.
-- At least you have Xanax if you really feel you need to take it. I have used Xanax, when needed only, for a number of years, and have never had to increase the small dose I was prescribed and use. What I like about it is that when the anxiety becomes so unbearable and it's interferring with my functionning and thiniking, I can take 1/2 a Xanax for a few days in a row and then I am better able to cope for days and days. I think just having a few days anxiety-free can make a difference. The Remeron weight gain I guess can be a real problem for some. A friend of mine took Remeron for quite a while, but she finally stopped because she so sleepy (even though she took it at night) and had gained a lot of weight. Yet, some people seem to experience increased energy and don't seem to gain at all. You might like the Clomipramine. I think it might have been a good AD for me if I had been able to get to a therapeutic dose. But, I was so dizzy and lightheaded all the time (and, I had dizziness and lightheadedness before taking it). I would even experience dizziness when I was standing doing the dishes and stuff like that. It was unpleasant and scary at times for me.
>
> Exactly right! We feel we have to be perfect but we cut others lots of slack. I read that that attitude is the ultimate in arrogance because on some level we feel we have to be better than everyone else. I am just beginning to forgive myself. I have a long way to go to be truly accepting of myself.-- It takes time and practice I guess. We'll both get there I am sure.
>
> You didn't know. You thought that pushing yourself was the way to go. Now you know better and you're taking the appropriate action. You've been through a lot lately. It takes its toll. It's good that you're giving yourself the time to heal and working on your issues.-- I think I might start seeing a T to help me work on my issues. I don't know, I have been thinking about it, and maybe it might be worth pursuing. A friend of mine told me today that she has decided to see a T. She said she owes it to herself to get some help dealing with her issues. That is a big step for her. So, if she can do it, then perhaps I can to.
>
> Do you think this book you're reading now is helpful? Would you recommend it? I don't know much about the Eckhart Tolle book other than the fact that many people I know have raved about it. I'm very curious. Can't wait to pick it up later today along with the Dr. Braverman book mentioned in the CES thread.-- I think the book will be helpful. The author is an American Buddhist nun, and her writing is based on traditional Buddhist wisdom and drawn from her teachings and lectures. Some of it (at least what I have read so far) is obvious (like walk towards your fears, moving toward painful situations, etc.), but it is interesting because of the personal antecdotes. I hope your books are interesting and helpful. It's nice coming here and getting recommendations for great books or hearing others' reviews on books. Helps making choices easier and less of a shot in the dark.
> Unfortunately people can have serious conditions and you wouldn't know by looking at them. Has she closed her practice forever or is she just taking a break with the possibility of coming back? I'm sure she'd appreciate the card. That's very sweet of you.
-- She has closed the practice completely and, it would appear, forever, so she must be really sick.
All the best to you Kara,
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 1:29:10
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 24, 2005, at 21:14:04
Hi,
> -- No, it certainly isn't neat and perfect. And, when we have a few good days, we really get our hopes up that maybe this is it, only to have them dashed until our next few good days. But, a few good days can lead to more, so that is something to keep us going. I think what's hard to swallow (for me at least) is that some respond so well during a first depressive episode to the first AD they are put on. And then when they need an AD again, it can result in trial after trial. I am really hoping that the Celexa/Provigil (and, maybe some NADH) will work for me. You know, I was thinking about the Zoloft, and do you think it might be a dopamine thing? I have read here a number of times that Zoloft has the most effect on dopamine of all the SSRIs (then again, that may only be at the higher doses. But, given your sensitivity . . . ). Anyway, I just thought I would put that out there FWIW.My fingers are crossed in hopes that your combo works for you. You lucked out your first time by responding right away. Unfortunately it's not always that easy but like I said earlier, the fact that you've responded before is good reason to assume that you'll respond again.
In terms of Zoloft, I think it is a weak dopamine inhibitor. I was on it years ago and didn't notice any pro dopamine results. I still had the SSRI apathy. My guess is that it's the 5-HT antagonism that is causing the extra anxiety but I really don't know enough about these things to say for certain. I never had any problem with SSRIs before but I wasn't in this anxious a condition before either. I remember reading about others on the board having problems with the SSRIs and anxiety initially and I remember thinking how strange that was since I tolerated them so easily. Little did I know ...
> -- That's encouraging! Feeling some relief after one trial is incentive to continue and perfect your technique. I can't wait to hear how it progresses. Good luck. I'll keep my fingers that you continue to see positive results and relief.
Yeah, definitely. These accupressure/tapping methods are supposed to treat a lot of conditions - not only anxiety. They're also used to get over trauma, depression, phobias plus any other negative emotion you can think of. Also, they are used to reinforce positive thinking. If I have success with the anxiety, then I'll try to expand to other areas.
> -- I have noticed that, as I get older, the cold seems to affect me more. I remember when I was in my teens and early to mid-20s, going out in the winter with a light coat (sometimes just a jean jacket and maybe a scarf), shoes (no boots) and no hat, and it didn't seem to be a big deal. Now, I wouldn't go out without my hat, scarf and mitts and my down-filled coat. I'm glad it was sunny where you are today. Sure makes a difference doesn't it. It was sunny here as well, but it was still -17 with the wind. But, the sun made a big difference.I never was the kind of person who dressed minimally in the winter. In fact people have often made fun of me because I'd be so bundled up. When it's really cold I don't even care if things match or not. I've been known to go out in some pretty horrible outfits - but if those are the warmest things i have, then that's what I'll wear. -17 degrees sounds so cold. I don't know how you stand it.
> -- Oh, he can be relentless at times! After that, he got himself a gortex face mask to wear on the really cold days. But, he doesn't go skiing when it is as cold as it was that day anymore (probably because he can't convince anyone to go with him! :-))
You'd think that the frostbite on his face would have been enough of a deterent. You gotta admire his spunk!
> -- At least you have Xanax if you really feel you need to take it. I have used Xanax, when needed only, for a number of years, and have never had to increase the small dose I was prescribed and use. What I like about it is that when the anxiety becomes so unbearable and it's interferring with my functionning and thiniking, I can take 1/2 a Xanax for a few days in a row and then I am better able to cope for days and days. I think just having a few days anxiety-free can make a difference.
Yes, it's definitely good to know that it's there to fall back on. Have you ever used the Xanax for more than a few days? If I use it to help me get on Zoloft, then I'll be using it for at least 2-3 weeks. For me, I will have developed tolerance already. I know this from past experience. Then it will be such a pain trying to get off of it. I'm so torn about this but I might not have much choice. If it were a medication that I had a lot of hope for I wouldn't mind it as much but I know I'll only have limited success (at the most) on Zoloft.
I'm probably going to be moving in a couple of months so that's going to be very stressful. I really can't afford this apartment anymore and I don't like it much anyway. A friend of mine just bought a house and I'm going to move in with her. I'll have my own room and full bathroom and I'll cut my expenses down to less than half of what they are now. I'll probably have to sell most of my furniture. So much to think about and take care of. It's not the kind of thing you want to deal with when you're already experiencing an anxiety disorder, but I think I'll be better off in the long-run. At any rate, I'm sure I'll need the Xanax for this one!
>The Remeron weight gain I guess can be a real problem for some. A friend of mine took Remeron for quite a while, but she finally stopped because she so sleepy (even though she took it at night) and had gained a lot of weight. Yet, some people seem to experience increased energy and don't seem to gain at all. You might like the Clomipramine. I think it might have been a good AD for me if I had been able to get to a therapeutic dose. But, I was so dizzy and lightheaded all the time (and, I had dizziness and lightheadedness before taking it). I would even experience dizziness when I was standing doing the dishes and stuff like that. It was unpleasant and scary at times for me.
It's a good thing you got off of the clomipramine. Your side effects were too severe. That's scary when you can't even stand up for any period of time without feeling dizzy.
Some people on the boards have said that Remeron is far less sedating and perhaps less likely to cause weight gain at the higher dosages. It's so strange when medications act differently at various dosages. Still, I'm a bit afraid of it. As it is, the little bit of doxepin is boosting my appetite. I'm really craving sweets now.
> -- I think I might start seeing a T to help me work on my issues. I don't know, I have been thinking about it, and maybe it might be worth pursuing. A friend of mine told me today that she has decided to see a T. She said she owes it to herself to get some help dealing with her issues. That is a big step for her. So, if she can do it, then perhaps I can to.
That's not a bad idea. I've seen many over a period of years but none in the last 10 or 15 years other than a session or two. I had a great T when I was in college. She was so sharp and so likable. I really felt that she analyzed situations well, gave great advice and i had so much respect for her. Over the years I've seen others but they just couldn't compare to her. I would find myself being so dissapointed in them. If you can find a good one, then you can really benefit from it. I'm going to look into seeing if I can get one through the free clinics that I'll be going to. Sometimes a therapy group or a support group can help a lot too. Babble is great but it's nice to see people face-to-face sometimes.
> -- I think the book will be helpful. The author is an American Buddhist nun, and her writing is based on traditional Buddhist wisdom and drawn from her teachings and lectures. Some of it (at least what I have read so far) is obvious (like walk towards your fears, moving toward painful situations, etc.), but it is interesting because of the personal antecdotes. I hope your books are interesting and helpful. It's nice coming here and getting recommendations for great books or hearing others' reviews on books. Helps making choices easier and less of a shot in the dark.
I've found that books can be a great comfort. I've always been drawn to Buddhist philosophy so I'll have to add that book to my list. I picked up the two books I mentioned earlier. I'm a little disappointed in the Braverman book so far. I was expecting at least one chapter devoted to the treatment of depression but it only has the subject sprinkled in here in there. Also, I haven't seen anything new - but I've only skimmed the book so far. I haven't looked at the Tolle book at all yet.
> -- She has closed the practice completely and, it would appear, forever, so she must be really sick.That's so sad. Is she very old? Why does it always have to happen to the good ones?
Take care,
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 10:32:38
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 1:29:10
> Hi,
>
> My fingers are crossed in hopes that your combo works for you. You lucked out your first time by responding right away. Unfortunately it's not always that easy but like I said earlier, the fact that you've responded before is good reason to assume that you'll respond again.-- Thanks. The hardest thing to deal with is the apathy and the lack of motivation. It seems, for the first time in my life, I am content just to stay at home, listen to music, keep the house clean and the laundry done, take my dog for walks, talk to friends on the phone, But, to go out and really do stuff just leaves me feeling flat. I don't know how to explain it. I have never been like this before. It's unnerving. For a while, I thought it was fear, but it's not that, it's like a Blah feeling. Yuk! :-(
>
> In terms of Zoloft, I think it is a weak dopamine inhibitor. I was on it years ago and didn't notice any pro dopamine results. I still had the SSRI apathy. My guess is that it's the 5-HT antagonism that is causing the extra anxiety but I really don't know enough about these things to say for certain. I never had any problem with SSRIs before but I wasn't in this anxious a condition before either. I remember reading about others on the board having problems with the SSRIs and anxiety initially and I remember thinking how strange that was since I tolerated them so easily. Little did I know ...-- Well, don't forget, you have a thyroid condition to contend with now. I would think that would have some kind of effect on how we metabolize and respond to medications. I don't know, but I seem to recall reading that some thyroid medications increase the effects of ADs, which might explain the start-up side effects you are experiencing now that you didn't before.
>
> Yeah, definitely. These accupressure/tapping methods are supposed to treat a lot of conditions - not only anxiety. They're also used to get over trauma, depression, phobias plus any other negative emotion you can think of. Also, they are used to reinforce positive thinking. If I have success with the anxiety, then I'll try to expand to other areas.-- That's what is so interesting and nice about those types of techniques - they can serve multiple purposes. Nice to know that you could well have a technique that you can use to deal with other problems as well. I saw the thread on the Alternative board about tapping. I didn't join in, but I did try it last summer. It was an interesting concept, but really didn't do a thing for me - and I did it daily for a week or two. Oh well, I like trying alternative things, so I don't regret having pursued it.
>
> I never was the kind of person who dressed minimally in the winter. In fact people have often made fun of me because I'd be so bundled up. When it's really cold I don't even care if things match or not. I've been known to go out in some pretty horrible outfits - but if those are the warmest things i have, then that's what I'll wear. -17 degrees sounds so cold. I don't know how you stand it.-- I, personally, don't care what I look like in the winter anymore (well, the hat-head I could do without), as long as I am warm! I am used to the cold now. But, that first walk in the morning with my dog on a cold day can be a drag and a bit hard to take sometimes. Once I am out there and moving I don't notice the cold as much.
>
> You'd think that the frostbite on his face would have been enough of a deterent. You gotta admire his spunk!-- Not much stops him! He did his first (and only) triathalon when he was about 60. He even had to learn to swim in order to do it. He finished it, even though he was the last one out of the water! Actually, the big joke is that he wasn't the last one out the water because his swimming coach (a friend of his) swam with him and he actually got out of the water last!
>
> Yes, it's definitely good to know that it's there to fall back on. Have you ever used the Xanax for more than a few days? If I use it to help me get on Zoloft, then I'll be using it for at least 2-3 weeks. For me, I will have developed tolerance already. I know this from past experience. Then it will be such a pain trying to get off of it. I'm so torn about this but I might not have much choice. If it were a medication that I had a lot of hope for I wouldn't mind it as much but I know I'll only have limited success (at the most) on Zoloft.-- I have used Xanax for extended periods of time. When I first started getting sick, it was extremely busy at work (it's always busy, but we were going through a really caotic time for months and months) and I wasn't on an AD at the time, so I used my Xanax every morning before I left for work for a number of weeks (taking a break on the weekends though). I was worried that I would develop a dependence, but I didn't have a problem stopping (and I am a recovering alcoholic). I think that not using it on Saturdays and Sundays may have helped.
>
> I'm probably going to be moving in a couple of months so that's going to be very stressful. I really can't afford this apartment anymore and I don't like it much anyway. A friend of mine just bought a house and I'm going to move in with her. I'll have my own room and full bathroom and I'll cut my expenses down to less than half of what they are now. I'll probably have to sell most of my furniture. So much to think about and take care of. It's not the kind of thing you want to deal with when you're already experiencing an anxiety disorder, but I think I'll be better off in the long-run. At any rate, I'm sure I'll need the Xanax for this one!-- Moving is a huge stresser! And, you are right, it is not the type of thing you want to deal with when you're experiencing overwhelming anxiety already. It's nice though that you have a friend you feel comfortable enough to share a house with. It's nice, too, to have another person around. I don't know, but it can be somewhat comforting. It will probably turn out to be a good thing in the long run. My younger brother lived with me for a year while he was saving up a down payment for a house. It was nice having him here (well, most of time :-)). That's a shame about having to sell your furniture though. I know it's hard to part with our things. I am not a materialistic person, but our "things" became a part of us and our lives in a way. Since you already know you will be moving in a couple of months, you can take your time packing - a litte bit each day, so as not to put to much stress on yourself. When I moved a couple of years ago, I did a little bit each day. Took my time, decided what I could or was willing to part with (you know, those sentimental things that we hang to for years, but take up space) and found it less stressful than previous moves.
> Some people on the boards have said that Remeron is far less sedating and perhaps less likely to cause weight gain at the higher dosages. It's so strange when medications act differently at various dosages. Still, I'm a bit afraid of it. As it is, the little bit of doxepin is boosting my appetite. I'm really craving sweets now.-- I wonder if a some chromium in the morning and before bed might help combat the sugar cravings? It might be worth a shot. I have found my cravings for sweets have diminished since using chromium. This from a person who has considered peanut M & Ms and Orville's movie theatre microwave popcorn a balanced dinner!
>
> That's not a bad idea. I've seen many over a period of years but none in the last 10 or 15 years other than a session or two. I had a great T when I was in college. She was so sharp and so likable. I really felt that she analyzed situations well, gave great advice and i had so much respect for her. Over the years I've seen others but they just couldn't compare to her. I would find myself being so dissapointed in them. If you can find a good one, then you can really benefit from it. I'm going to look into seeing if I can get one through the free clinics that I'll be going to. Sometimes a therapy group or a support group can help a lot too. Babble is great but it's nice to see people face-to-face sometimes.-- That's a good idea about seeing if you can find a therapist through the free clinic. Therapy is so expensive. If you do pursue it, I hope you can find a therapist who compares to the one you had in college. The connection and the bond I imagine is so important to the success of the therapy. I doubt I would be considering therapy if my insurance didn't cover 80% of the cost. I find, too, that babble has helped me quite a bit, even just by reading posts and the responses to the posts. But, I agree, finding an IRL support group would be nice.
>
> I've found that books can be a great comfort. I've always been drawn to Buddhist philosophy so I'll have to add that book to my list. I picked up the two books I mentioned earlier. I'm a little disappointed in the Braverman book so far. I was expecting at least one chapter devoted to the treatment of depression but it only has the subject sprinkled in here in there. Also, I haven't seen anything new - but I've only skimmed the book so far. I haven't looked at the Tolle book at all yet.-- Yes, books can be a comfort. I love it when I find a good book and I just can't put it down. I'm like my mom - I'll lose myself in a book (even if it is just a silly or trashy novel to some) and I just spend an entire day reading and and reading and reading until I finish the book. That's a drag about the Braverman book. Hopefully the Tolle book will be better upon first glance.
>
> That's so sad. Is she very old? Why does it always have to happen to the good ones?-- She was probably in her late 50s or even early 60s. She is a recovering alcoholic (she told me when I first started seeing her because I was in the early stages of recovery). But, she would have almost 30 years of sobriety (if I am remembering right), so I don't think she fell off the wagon. When I think back to my last appointment with her, I have to say now that she seemed quite distracted and not quite herself. She's a fighter, so I am sure she will be ok. It's just a shame that the medical community is losing one of the good ones.
>
> Take care of yourself,Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 16:52:54
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 10:32:38
Hi,
> -- Thanks. The hardest thing to deal with is the apathy and the lack of motivation. It seems, for the first time in my life, I am content just to stay at home, listen to music, keep the house clean and the laundry done, take my dog for walks, talk to friends on the phone, But, to go out and really do stuff just leaves me feeling flat. I don't know how to explain it. I have never been like this before. It's unnerving. For a while, I thought it was fear, but it's not that, it's like a Blah feeling. Yuk! :-(
Yeah, the apathy sucks. I do envy your ability or motivation to keep your house clean though. Mine is a nightmare. Wish I had the energy to clean it. It's good that you have a lot of motivation to socialize on-line at least.
> -- Well, don't forget, you have a thyroid condition to contend with now. I would think that would have some kind of effect on how we metabolize and respond to medications. I don't know, but I seem to recall reading that some thyroid medications increase the effects of ADs, which might explain the start-up side effects you are experiencing now that you didn't before.
I had the thyroid condition when I started on Effexor the last time though. I probably need to have my level of thyroxin increased. Maybe that plays into it somehow.
> -- That's what is so interesting and nice about those types of techniques - they can serve multiple purposes. Nice to know that you could well have a technique that you can use to deal with other problems as well. I saw the thread on the Alternative board about tapping. I didn't join in, but I did try it last summer. It was an interesting concept, but really didn't do a thing for me - and I did it daily for a week or two. Oh well, I like trying alternative things, so I don't regret having pursued it.So you're way ahead of me on the tapping. I'm bummed it didn't work for you. Did you try the EFT or Lambrou's techniques? Lambrou has things you can do when it doesn't work to reverse your polarity and correcting polarity disorganization etc. I wonder if any of that really makes a difference.
> -- I, personally, don't care what I look like in the winter anymore (well, the hat-head I could do without), as long as I am warm! I am used to the cold now. But, that first walk in the morning with my dog on a cold day can be a drag and a bit hard to take sometimes. Once I am out there and moving I don't notice the cold as much.
The cold can be invigorating. Also good psychologically to think that you've mastered the elements.
> -- Not much stops him! He did his first (and only) triathalon when he was about 60. He even had to learn to swim in order to do it. He finished it, even though he was the last one out of the water! Actually, the big joke is that he wasn't the last one out the water because his swimming coach (a friend of his) swam with him and he actually got out of the water last!A triathalon at 60? He really is something! Wish I had one tenth of his moxie.
> -- I have used Xanax for extended periods of time. When I first started getting sick, it was extremely busy at work (it's always busy, but we were going through a really caotic time for months and months) and I wasn't on an AD at the time, so I used my Xanax every morning before I left for work for a number of weeks (taking a break on the weekends though). I was worried that I would develop a dependence, but I didn't have a problem stopping (and I am a recovering alcoholic). I think that not using it on Saturdays and Sundays may have helped.
You were lucky. I took Ativan for 2-3 weeks - only a little bit at night to help me sleep. Then I went off it for 2-3 weeks and then I went back on it for 2-3 weeks. When I stopped it at that point all hell broke loose. My pdoc said that my body "remembered the Ativan" during the break I took from it. So I've been a bit afraid of using benzos ever since. I will probably have to use it for the move as well as for getting onto Zoloft and then spend a year trying to get off of it.
> -- Moving is a huge stresser! And, you are right, it is not the type of thing you want to deal with when you're experiencing overwhelming anxiety already. It's nice though that you have a friend you feel comfortable enough to share a house with. It's nice, too, to have another person around. I don't know, but it can be somewhat comforting. It will probably turn out to be a good thing in the long run. My younger brother lived with me for a year while he was saving up a down payment for a house. It was nice having him here (well, most of time :-)). That's a shame about having to sell your furniture though. I know it's hard to part with our things. I am not a materialistic person, but our "things" became a part of us and our lives in a way. Since you already know you will be moving in a couple of months, you can take your time packing - a litte bit each day, so as not to put to much stress on yourself. When I moved a couple of years ago, I did a little bit each day. Took my time, decided what I could or was willing to part with (you know, those sentimental things that we hang to for years, but take up space) and found it less stressful than previous moves.Yeah, I think that it will probably be a good thing for me to have someone else around now. She is a good loyal friend - a bit obnoxious and hard to take at times - but her heart is good. The reduction in my expenses will be good for me as well. The downside is that it will be her house and her furniture and her rules. Also she has terrible taste. Her apartment is so dark and cluttered. You wouldn't believe how ugly it is! (meow...) It will be interesting to see how all of our animals get along (to say the least). She has 3 cats and a parrot and I have 2 cats. (One of her cats and the parrot are quite nasty so I'm a bit concerned about that as well.) On the plus side, she is the one who did the reiki healing. I've been using my light box daily and I don't feel as good as after she did that healing on me. It might have been a coincidence. It's so hard for me to believe in that stuff. Unfortunately what ever it was only lasted two days. I haven't felt as good since.
I'm not so much concerned with parting with my furniture because I don't have much that's nice. I'd like to keep my couches but that's about it. I'm more concerned with how to sell the stuff. I'm too afraid to put an ad in somewhere and have strangers in LA coming into my place. It's just too dangerous. I guess there's a thrift shop kind of a place that I can call and they would come over and offer you some money for the stuff and then cart it away. That's probably my best bet - if they even want the stuff. I would hardly make any money that way though. I don't know. There's one end table that's probably worth something so maybe I should take that elsewhere. I don't know. How do people do this?
> -- I wonder if a some chromium in the morning and before bed might help combat the sugar cravings? It might be worth a shot. I have found my cravings for sweets have diminished since using chromium. This from a person who has considered peanut M & Ms and Orville's movie theatre microwave popcorn a balanced dinner!
I have some chromium here. I'll try adding it in to my regimen again. It's the GTF version though - I think other versions are better but I'll finish this one for now.
> -- That's a good idea about seeing if you can find a therapist through the free clinic. Therapy is so expensive. If you do pursue it, I hope you can find a therapist who compares to the one you had in college. The connection and the bond I imagine is so important to the success of the therapy. I doubt I would be considering therapy if my insurance didn't cover 80% of the cost. I find, too, that babble has helped me quite a bit, even just by reading posts and the responses to the posts. But, I agree, finding an IRL support group would be nice.Babble is great for information and for support. I've learned a lot about meds and supplements as well as receiving support. Previously I didn't have anyone in my life who understood or could relate to what I've been going through so I didn't talk much to anyone about it. My family was the opposite of helpful for most of this time. They saw me as lazy. They just didn't get it. I moved across country partly to get away from them. Ironically, now my mother is going through this. One day she said to me "Now I understand." You can't imagine how gratifying that was (even though I would never have wished this on her). She is finally responding to Effexor though so now she thinks that my problem is that I haven't given these medications enough time. I told her that I was on Effexor for several years but it still doesn't get through to her. GRRRR. She keeps thinking that if I just go to see a doctor more often that I'd get better. I have told her that I know what all of my options are at this point but that doesn't change her mind. So frustrating! (Sorry for the rant.) Overall though I have to say that my family is much more supportive now which is a blessing.
> -- Yes, books can be a comfort. I love it when I find a good book and I just can't put it down. I'm like my mom - I'll lose myself in a book (even if it is just a silly or trashy novel to some) and I just spend an entire day reading and and reading and reading until I finish the book. That's a drag about the Braverman book. Hopefully the Tolle book will be better upon first glance.
Yeah, even if a book is just escapism, it's helpful. I have a hard time starting fiction but once I do, I usually can't put it down. Most of the time these days though I'm more interested in reading something that's going to help me out of this rut I'm in.
> -- She was probably in her late 50s or even early 60s. She is a recovering alcoholic (she told me when I first started seeing her because I was in the early stages of recovery). But, she would have almost 30 years of sobriety (if I am remembering right), so I don't think she fell off the wagon. When I think back to my last appointment with her, I have to say now that she seemed quite distracted and not quite herself. She's a fighter, so I am sure she will be ok. It's just a shame that the medical community is losing one of the good ones.
That's way too young to have a serious health problem. I have a feeling that if the problem were alcohol related that she wouldn't close her practice for good - just temporarily. That's too bad for her and for all of the people in the community who will miss out on a wonderful doctor.
Speaking of doctors, when do you meet with that healer doctor? Should be soon, right?
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 20:21:29
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 16:52:54
> Hi,
>
> Yeah, the apathy sucks. I do envy your ability or motivation to keep your house clean though. Mine is a nightmare. Wish I had the energy to clean it. It's good that you have a lot of motivation to socialize on-line at least.
>
-- I have been spending way too much time on-line and on babble. I really have to cut down in the next little while before I return to work. But, it has been so nice to have a place to hang out where people understand and have been through, or are going through, similar experiences. There are a lot of nice people here. And, the past month and a half, I have been couped up because of the weather and not being able to get since I wasn't able to get a winter coat and mitts on because of the cast, so spending time on-line was therapeutic. Now I have no excuses. I can get out again, so I'll just have to push myself to get active. I'd like to try yoga, and maybe I'll try to go to a class a day or every second day for the next couple of weeks.
>
> So you're way ahead of me on the tapping. I'm bummed it didn't work for you. Did you try the EFT or Lambrou's techniques? Lambrou has things you can do when it doesn't work to reverse your polarity and correcting polarity disorganization etc. I wonder if any of that really makes a difference.
>
-- I tried the EFT. Perhaps I should look into Lambrou's techniques and give it another go one day.of time. I actually thought it was working at first, but then I had a really bad day and the tapping didn't make a dent in the anxiety. But, that was when I was taking L-Glutamine and was having a bad reaction to Depo. After about two weeks of use, I found that the L-Glutamine made me quite wired and jittery. It was very unpleasant.
>
> You were lucky. I took Ativan for 2-3 weeks - only a little bit at night to help me sleep. Then I went off it for 2-3 weeks and then I went back on it for 2-3 weeks. When I stopped it at that point all hell broke loose. My pdoc said that my body "remembered the Ativan" during the break I took from it. So I've been a bit afraid of using benzos ever since. I will probably have to use it for the move as well as for getting onto Zoloft and then spend a year trying to get off of it.
>
-- Maybe if you tried skipping a couple of days instead of using it for 2 - 3 weeks straight you might not build up such a tolerance. But, everybody responds to differently to benzos, what works for one won't be effective for another (as you well know). I'm just glad that I have it when I need it. And, I'm sure it will be a blessing for you when you move.
>
> Yeah, I think that it will probably be a good thing for me to have someone else around now. She is a good loyal friend - a bit obnoxious and hard to take at times - but her heart is good. The reduction in my expenses will be good for me as well. The downside is that it will be her house and her furniture and her rules. Also she has terrible taste. Her apartment is so dark and cluttered. You wouldn't believe how ugly it is! (meow...) It will be interesting to see how all of our animals get along (to say the least). She has 3 cats and a parrot and I have 2 cats. (One of her cats and the parrot are quite nasty so I'm a bit concerned about that as well.) On the plus side, she is the one who did the reiki healing. I've been using my light box daily and I don't feel as good as after she did that healing on me. It might have been a coincidence. It's so hard for me to believe in that stuff. Unfortunately what ever it was only lasted two days. I haven't felt as good since.
>
-- As long as she means well, that's the important thing. And, when she gets on your nerves, you have your own space to go to to get away. It's nice too that you will be saving on expenses. That's always a relief. Too bad about her taste though :-(. Once you get settled, maybe you can start making some subtle suggestions to help un-ugly the place (meow meow) :-) Try to get her hooked on Trading Spaces or Divine Design to get her thinking. As for the reiki, I guess you won't know if it was a coincidence until you have the opportunity to have another session. I hope when you have another session you get positive results again.OMG, I just had a little bit of a freak-out. I hadn't locked my front door, and, while I was typing away, I heard the front door opening. I hustled over to the front door, and there is some guy starting to come into my house! Oops. Sorry he says, wrong house??? Whaaaaaaat the . . . .!!! I don't usually worry about those things. I live in a pretty good neighborhood and have gone to bed a few times with the front door unlocked. Now I feel all nervous. I am letting my imagination run away with me. Ok, deep breaths, deep breaths, deep breaths.
>
> I'm not so much concerned with parting with my furniture because I don't have much that's nice. I'd like to keep my couches but that's about it. I'm more concerned with how to sell the stuff. I'm too afraid to put an ad in somewhere and have strangers in LA coming into my place. It's just too dangerous. I guess there's a thrift shop kind of a place that I can call and they would come over and offer you some money for the stuff and then cart it away. That's probably my best bet - if they even want the stuff. I would hardly make any money that way though. I don't know. There's one end table that's probably worth something so maybe I should take that elsewhere. I don't know. How do people do this?
>
-- I understand your concern about the ad. I wouldn't want strangers coming to my place. Your best bet is probably second hand store(s). If you think the end table might be worth something, then you might want to try to get it to an antique store/dealer for an appraisal. It would be a shame for you not to get what it is worth. When I was getting rid of things, my brother and some friends knew of people who were interested in some of things I was selling, so I was comfortable with them coming over because people I knew could vouch for them.
>
> > I have some chromium here. I'll try adding it in to my regimen again. It's the GTF version though - I think other versions are better but I'll finish this one for now.
>
-- I've been using the GTF version, and it seems to work fine.
>
> Babble is great for information and for support. I've learned a lot about meds and supplements as well as receiving support. Previously I didn't have anyone in my life who understood or could relate to what I've been going through so I didn't talk much to anyone about it. My family was the opposite of helpful for most of this time. They saw me as lazy. They just didn't get it. I moved across country partly to get away from them. Ironically, now my mother is going through this. One day she said to me "Now I understand." You can't imagine how gratifying that was (even though I would never have wished this on her). She is finally responding to Effexor though so now she thinks that my problem is that I haven't given these medications enough time. I told her that I was on Effexor for several years but it still doesn't get through to her. GRRRR. She keeps thinking that if I just go to see a doctor more often that I'd get better. I have told her that I know what all of my options are at this point but that doesn't change her mind. So frustrating! (Sorry for the rant.) Overall though I have to say that my family is much more supportive now which is a blessing.
>
-- Lack of support and understanding certainly don't make it easier to go through and recover from depression and anxiety. My family can have their heads in the sand at times, which can be very frustrating and only makes me feel worse. They just can't seem to accept that I am going through this. So, they were spending a lot of time trying to convince me that nothing was wrong and all I have been doing is making myself sicker by taking medication. My mom has always been mildly depressed ever since I was a kid - sleeping a lot, pessimistic, lack of motivation. She says that's the way she has always been and there's nothing wrong with her. OK. Mothers eh! GRRRR is right! -:) It must be somewhat of a mixed blessing for you - your mother understanding what you've gone through and are going through, but now having an opinion on how you are handling your med trials. Rant away Kara :-) One day I'll be ranting about my mom, and then you'll be sorry (just kidding). I'm glad to hear that your family has become much more supportive. It really does make a huge difference.
>
> Speaking of doctors, when do you meet with that healer doctor? Should be soon, right?
>
-- I was told to call to make another appointment for early March. So, I will call next week to set something up. I had almost forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me! I'm looking forward to it.Take care. I'll talk to you soon.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 23:27:39
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 20:21:29
> > Hi,
> -- I have been spending way too much time on-line and on babble. I really have to cut down in the next little while before I return to work. But, it has been so nice to have a place to hang out where people understand and have been through, or are going through, similar experiences. There are a lot of nice people here. And, the past month and a half, I have been couped up because of the weather and not being able to get since I wasn't able to get a winter coat and mitts on because of the cast, so spending time on-line was therapeutic. Now I have no excuses. I can get out again, so I'll just have to push myself to get active. I'd like to try yoga, and maybe I'll try to go to a class a day or every second day for the next couple of weeks.
I hope that once you start work you'll still come here to talk. You would be very missed if you didn't. Besides we can still offer you a lot of support as you enter back into the work world. But it will be better for you to have more outside interests as well.
> -- I tried the EFT. Perhaps I should look into Lambrou's techniques and give it another go one day.of time. I actually thought it was working at first, but then I had a really bad day and the tapping didn't make a dent in the anxiety. But, that was when I was taking L-Glutamine and was having a bad reaction to Depo. After about two weeks of use, I found that the L-Glutamine made me quite wired and jittery. It was very unpleasant.
I doubt that the accupressure would work against a drug or supplement that was making things worse. Maybe without that kind of negative influence, you might succeed with it. Then again, maybe it just wasn't for you. I'll let you know if I have more success.
> -- As long as she means well, that's the important thing. And, when she gets on your nerves, you have your own space to go to to get away. It's nice too that you will be saving on expenses. That's always a relief. Too bad about her taste though :-(. Once you get settled, maybe you can start making some subtle suggestions to help un-ugly the place (meow meow) :-) Try to get her hooked on Trading Spaces or Divine Design to get her thinking. As for the reiki, I guess you won't know if it was a coincidence until you have the opportunity to have another session. I hope when you have another session you get positive results again.
Yeah, I'll have my own room to go to and we'll probably be on different schedules so it'll be ok. As for her taste, she thinks she has the best taste. She works in catering and she goes to the homes of really wealthy people. I've worked a couple of times with her so I know that she sees houses that are beautifully decorated. How she can't tell the difference between that and her place is beyond me. She also sets up buffet tables and seated tables and decorates them nicely for her job so she thinks she's an artist and that her taste is wonderful. You'd really have to see her place to believe how ugly it is. Everything is dark, very dark, wtih barely an inch of free space anywhere. Horrible dark old pictures are on the wall. I tell her outright how horrible her taste is. I tell her to get rid of certain really ugly things. She just laughs it off. She has decided that I just don't appreciate her good taste. (Everyone I know of who has seen her place thinks it's horrendous so it's not just my opinion.)
> OMG, I just had a little bit of a freak-out. I hadn't locked my front door, and, while I was typing away, I heard the front door opening. I hustled over to the front door, and there is some guy starting to come into my house! Oops. Sorry he says, wrong house??? Whaaaaaaat the . . . .!!! I don't usually worry about those things. I live in a pretty good neighborhood and have gone to bed a few times with the front door unlocked. Now I feel all nervous. I am letting my imagination run away with me. Ok, deep breaths, deep breaths, deep breaths.
Wow, that's scary!!! Since you continued writing I'm assuming that it all turned out ok. I bet you'll be keeping your door shut and locked from now on...
> -- I understand your concern about the ad. I wouldn't want strangers coming to my place. Your best bet is probably second hand store(s). If you think the end table might be worth something, then you might want to try to get it to an antique store/dealer for an appraisal. It would be a shame for you not to get what it is worth. When I was getting rid of things, my brother and some friends knew of people who were interested in some of things I was selling, so I was comfortable with them coming over because people I knew could vouch for them.I'll have to see what I can do. Unfortunately I just don't have the energy to go shopping around for the best deals. I just want the stuff gone and I don't want to have to worry about where to store it. My anxiety is creeping up just thinking about it all.
> -- I've been using the GTF version, and it seems to work fine.
Ok, good, I'll use that then.
> -- Lack of support and understanding certainly don't make it easier to go through and recover from depression and anxiety. My family can have their heads in the sand at times, which can be very frustrating and only makes me feel worse. They just can't seem to accept that I am going through this. So, they were spending a lot of time trying to convince me that nothing was wrong and all I have been doing is making myself sicker by taking medication. My mom has always been mildly depressed ever since I was a kid - sleeping a lot, pessimistic, lack of motivation. She says that's the way she has always been and there's nothing wrong with her. OK. Mothers eh! GRRRR is right! -:) It must be somewhat of a mixed blessing for you - your mother understanding what you've gone through and are going through, but now having an opinion on how you are handling your med trials. Rant away Kara :-) One day I'll be ranting about my mom, and then you'll be sorry (just kidding). I'm glad to hear that your family has become much more supportive. It really does make a huge difference.How frustrating for you that they won't accept what you're going through. It's hard enough with this condition without having to prove that you really have a problem. I think that with mothers they worry that they might have done something wrong and are responsible if we don't do well or they'd prefer to think that they didn't pass on any genetic predisposition towards this. It's too scary for them to even consider it.
> -- I was told to call to make another appointment for early March. So, I will call next week to set something up. I had almost forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me! I'm looking forward to it.I can't wait to hear what he has to say and whether he can in fact make a difference with these kinds of problems.
Talk to you later,
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 26, 2005, at 9:01:49
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 25, 2005, at 23:27:39
> > > Hi,
>
>
> I hope that once you start work you'll still come here to talk. You would be very missed if you didn't. Besides we can still offer you a lot of support as you enter back into the work world. But it will be better for you to have more outside interests as well.
>
-- You are very kind, thanks. I know I will still be able to visit babble. The emphathy, support and good advice have been a Godsend these past number of months. I had put my outside interests on hold for a while, but I think I just needed a break from it all. So, I will ease my way back in . . . slowly. Try not to go full force like I usually do.
>
> I doubt that the accupressure would work against a drug or supplement that was making things worse. Maybe without that kind of negative influence, you might succeed with it. Then again, maybe it just wasn't for you. I'll let you know if I have more success.
>
-- The tapping sure didn't. I was tapping, and tapping and tapping . . . It just wouldn't stop the extreme agitation and racing thoughts I was experiencing. And, my boss was coming over for lunch that day. I was so worried that he'd get here and I would be all agitated and talking a mile a minute, etc. I finally had to take a Xanax. That worked - phew!
>
> Yeah, I'll have my own room to go to and we'll probably be on different schedules so it'll be ok. As for her taste, she thinks she has the best taste. She works in catering and she goes to the homes of really wealthy people. I've worked a couple of times with her so I know that she sees houses that are beautifully decorated. How she can't tell the difference between that and her place is beyond me. She also sets up buffet tables and seated tables and decorates them nicely for her job so she thinks she's an artist and that her taste is wonderful. You'd really have to see her place to believe how ugly it is. Everything is dark, very dark, wtih barely an inch of free space anywhere. Horrible dark old pictures are on the wall. I tell her outright how horrible her taste is. I tell her to get rid of certain really ugly things. She just laughs it off. She has decided that I just don't appreciate her good taste. (Everyone I know of who has seen her place thinks it's horrendous so it's not just my opinion.)
>
-- I guess your friend has never heard of the concept "less is more" :-) How can people be so oblivious? Well, to get a message across that might sink in, you could always send a picture of her living room to Oprah for her "The Ugliest Room in America" segment. Now, if Oprah says it's ugly, then she'll have to wake up and smell the coffee! (double meow). But seriously, at least you know you can be blunt and honest with her about things. That will make a big difference when you are sharing a place with her. I hope it works out for you.
>
>
> Wow, that's scary!!! Since you continued writing I'm assuming that it all turned out ok. I bet you'll be keeping your door shut and locked from now on...
>
-- Crisis averted. I managed to calm down, in spite of the fact that my dog, every ten minutes or so, kept running from the front door to the patio door barking. She never barks, and every time she did, I just about jumped out of my skin. I had a flashback to when I was ten years old and I was home alone with my baby brother while I parents had gone to the store. So, I'm sitting there and these two guys come to the door. One of the says "Is your daddy home?" No. "Is your mommy home?" No. "Well, we've come to rob the house!" I went nuts! Screaming and yelling, and terrified that they would hurt my baby brother who I had been entrusted to take care of. Anyway, the next door neighbors (aunt and uncle who are not really but called that because they are such good friends) come running over. This guy is totally embarrassed, and finally manages to tell us that he was just there to pick up field markers for an upcoming soccer tournament (my dad was very active in the soccer association at the time). Needless to say, he never showed his face at our place again!>
>
> I'll have to see what I can do. Unfortunately I just don't have the energy to go shopping around for the best deals. I just want the stuff gone and I don't want to have to worry about where to store it. My anxiety is creeping up just thinking about it all.
>
-- One step at a time. Just give yourself small, move-related goals for each day or every few days. You will get through this. And, the nice thing is is that you have a couple of months to get ready. So, that takes some of the pressure off. And, when it is over, you can breath a sigh of relief.
>
> How frustrating for you that they won't accept what you're going through. It's hard enough with this condition without having to prove that you really have a problem. I think that with mothers they worry that they might have done something wrong and are responsible if we don't do well or they'd prefer to think that they didn't pass on any genetic predisposition towards this. It's too scary for them to even consider it.
>
-- They have been a bit better lately. The heads have come out of the sand a bit. I have, for the most part, always been so active and upbeat that they just aren't used to it. They tend to depend on me for calm reassurance and positive reinforcement, especially my mom and my younger brother. My younger brother can not handle it when I am sick. He gets so upset. I think if my mom would just accept her dysthamia, then she would be more empathetic. But, as far as she's concerned, that's what life is all about and you just keep muddling through. I know it must be hard for a parent when one of their children goes through any illness. The need and instinct to protect and make everything better is so strong in a lot of parents.
>
> I can't wait to hear what he has to say and whether he can in fact make a difference with these kinds of problems.
>
-- I'm hoping he can help. He seems to have quite a following, so he must be doing something right.
> Talk to you again soon. Take care,Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 26, 2005, at 15:04:25
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 26, 2005, at 9:01:49
Hi,
> -- You are very kind, thanks. I know I will still be able to visit babble. The emphathy, support and good advice have been a Godsend these past number of months. I had put my outside interests on hold for a while, but I think I just needed a break from it all. So, I will ease my way back in . . . slowly. Try not to go full force like I usually do.
Sounds like a good plan.
> -- The tapping sure didn't. I was tapping, and tapping and tapping . . . It just wouldn't stop the extreme agitation and racing thoughts I was experiencing. And, my boss was coming over for lunch that day. I was so worried that he'd get here and I would be all agitated and talking a mile a minute, etc. I finally had to take a Xanax. That worked - phew!
I think if it's that acute, the tapping probably won't work. I'd be very interested in hearing about someone who has been able to get that much of an effect that quickly. Thank God for Xanax for crisis situations!
I don't expect the tapping to help me get on Zoloft unfortunately. When a medication is causing something it's not a matter of your energy being blocked, so what good could the tapping do? At least that's the way that I'm looking at it. I don't really know if that is the case.
> -- I guess your friend has never heard of the concept "less is more" :-) How can people be so oblivious? Well, to get a message across that might sink in, you could always send a picture of her living room to Oprah for her "The Ugliest Room in America" segment. Now, if Oprah says it's ugly, then she'll have to wake up and smell the coffee! (double meow). But seriously, at least you know you can be blunt and honest with her about things. That will make a big difference when you are sharing a place with her. I hope it works out for you.
That's so funny that you mentioned Oprah's ugliest room shows because I have really wanted to send in a picture of her livingroom. It would win hands down!! It's far uglier than anything I've seen on Oprah. My friend would be extremely upset about it though so I haven't done it. I'll just have to continue with my subtle messages ("Those drapes are atrocious! Please tell me you're not going to put those up in the new house!") :-)
I just heard bad news earlier this morning though. The deal is off. The sleezoid realtor accepted a higher offer - and this is after my friend already put money down! That should be illegal but apparently it isn't. My friend is up there at the complex now looking at some more units. It actually may end up better for me as she's now looking at 2 car gargages and one that has a second bedroom with a big walk-in closet.
Keep your fingers crossed for us!
> -- Crisis averted. I managed to calm down, in spite of the fact that my dog, every ten minutes or so, kept running from the front door to the patio door barking. She never barks, and every time she did, I just about jumped out of my skin. I had a flashback to when I was ten years old and I was home alone with my baby brother while I parents had gone to the store. So, I'm sitting there and these two guys come to the door. One of the says "Is your daddy home?" No. "Is your mommy home?" No. "Well, we've come to rob the house!" I went nuts! Screaming and yelling, and terrified that they would hurt my baby brother who I had been entrusted to take care of. Anyway, the next door neighbors (aunt and uncle who are not really but called that because they are such good friends) come running over. This guy is totally embarrassed, and finally manages to tell us that he was just there to pick up field markers for an upcoming soccer tournament (my dad was very active in the soccer association at the time). Needless to say, he never showed his face at our place again!>That's unbelievable. What a moron! He actually thought that was a funny line to use with children! No wonder you were so scared the other day.
> -- One step at a time. Just give yourself small, move-related goals for each day or every few days. You will get through this. And, the nice thing is is that you have a couple of months to get ready. So, that takes some of the pressure off. And, when it is over, you can breath a sigh of relief.
Yeah, I guess you're right. It's the only way to try to do it. It's overwhelming to me right now because I'm looking at everything that will need to be done. I just can't wait for it to be over though.
> -- They have been a bit better lately. The heads have come out of the sand a bit. I have, for the most part, always been so active and upbeat that they just aren't used to it. They tend to depend on me for calm reassurance and positive reinforcement, especially my mom and my younger brother. My younger brother can not handle it when I am sick. He gets so upset. I think if my mom would just accept her dysthamia, then she would be more empathetic. But, as far as she's concerned, that's what life is all about and you just keep muddling through. I know it must be hard for a parent when one of their children goes through any illness. The need and instinct to protect and make everything better is so strong in a lot of parents.
It definitely takes time for them to adjust if your role in the family has changed. I was never really the caretaker in my family. I bet it's hard to be a parent - knowing when to step in and when to step back esp. when you care so much. It's too bad that your mom can't recognize her condition and seek to improve her life but there's even more of a stigma for people in her generation (in terms of how they perceive it).
> -- I'm hoping he can help. He seems to have quite a following, so he must be doing something right.
It's so appealing to believe that someone can just wave their hand or say a magical spell and all of our problems will instantly disappear. I would love to experience that kind of miracle for so many reasons. If he helps you, you have to give me his contact info!
Take care,
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 8:36:32
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 26, 2005, at 15:04:25
Hi,
I don't expect the tapping to help me get on Zoloft unfortunately. When a medication is causing something it's not a matter of your energy being blocked, so what good could the tapping do? At least that's the way that I'm looking at it. I don't really know if that is the case.
-- You are probably right. I can't see how it would be effective against medication-induced side effects. I guess it might help calm a person down enough to endure the side effects. But, it's unlike to eliminate the side effects.
>>I really wanted to send in a picture of her livingroom. It would win hands down!! It's far uglier than anything I've seen on Oprah. My friend would be extremely upset about it though so I haven't done it. I'll just have to continue with my subtle messages ("Those drapes are atrocious! Please tell me you're not going to put those up in the new house!") :-)
-- Maybe the fact that it is a new place that you both will be moving into will give you a chance to influence the decor a bit and make the place nice and bright. If not, then the subtle hints may sink in one day. Persistence may pay off eventually :-)
I just heard bad news earlier this morning though. The deal is off. The sleezoid realtor accepted a higher offer - and this is after my friend already put money down! That should be illegal but apparently it isn't. My friend is up there at the complex now looking at some more units. It actually may end up better for me as she's now looking at 2 car gargages and one that has a second bedroom with a big walk-in closet. Keep your fingers crossed for us!
-- That is appalling! Had she signed a lease or a contract? Or was it a verbal agreement with a down payment? Either way, it is a pretty sleezy thing to do. It's incredible what some landlords will stoop to. Some people's lack of ethics is astounding at times. Well, I guess unless she is willing to take legal action, I suppose there would be nothing she could do. But, maybe it was meant to be if you guys now have the opportunity for a bigger place, with a better room for you (and a walk-in closet - I would love a walk-in closet!). That would be great! I'll will certainly keep my fingers crossed for you.
>>Yeah, I guess you're right. It's the only way to try to do it. It's overwhelming to me right now because I'm looking at everything that will need to be done. I just can't wait for it to be over though.
-- It is overwhelming when you think of everything that has to be done. I guess if you just made a list of the stuff that needs to be done, it wouldn't all be spinning around in your head as much. Then you can check things off and see yourself making progress. It might minimize the distress a bit. Sometimes just getting our thinking organized so we can prioritize helps calm us down and helps us realize that we can do it - one step, one box at a time.
>>It definitely takes time for them to adjust if your role in the family has changed. I was never really the caretaker in my family. I bet it's hard to be a parent - knowing when to step in and when to step back esp. when you care so much. It's too bad that your mom can't recognize her condition and seek to improve her life but there's even more of a stigma for people in her generation (in terms of how they perceive it).
-- I have always wanted kids, but it scares me that maybe I just wouldn't be good at it. And then there is the whole worry thing. It would probably suck the life right out of me. I would always be worrying about him or her. Maybe I'll just have to marry a guy who already has kids. Then I can be stepmom and maybe there wouldn't be as much pressure.
>>It's so appealing to believe that someone can just wave their hand or say a magical spell and all of our problems will instantly disappear. I would love to experience that kind of miracle for so many reasons. If he helps you, you have to give me his contact info!
-- The first few times I went he used this little pin-prick type needle and pricked my fingers and knuckles (everybody gets their own needle, and you had better not forget it when you show up for a visit). He also does the full accupuncture thing. And, he is cheap - $7 a visit (a couple of times when I went he didn't even charge me and refused to take any money). I'll let you know how it goes once I get started with treatments, and I'll certainly give you his contact info if you want it.
Take care, and talk to you soon.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 27, 2005, at 14:58:48
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 8:36:32
> Hi,
> -- You are probably right. I can't see how it would be effective against medication-induced side effects. I guess it might help calm a person down enough to endure the side effects. But, it's unlike to eliminate the side effects.
I probably told you already that I did some practicing of the tapping the night before last and the next day no anxiety. I don't know yet if it's related. I'm still VERY skeptical. Time will tell. My friend also promised to try more reiki on me. She's the one I'd be living with so if it helps I'd have my own therapist in-house.
Have you read the CES thread yet on the main board? I'm still very interested in learning more about that. You can get your own equipment - it's small and easy to use - kind of like a walkman. It has the potential to hit all transmitters (unlike most meds) but without many side effects. The guy who started the post just purchased one so I will be following his progress closely. I'm pretty sure I read that it is approved in Canada and that you don't need a prescription to order one as you do in the U.S.
> -- Maybe the fact that it is a new place that you both will be moving into will give you a chance to influence the decor a bit and make the place nice and bright. If not, then the subtle hints may sink in one day. Persistence may pay off eventually :-)Yes, that's the plan. I hope to wear her down a bit :)
> -- That is appalling! Had she signed a lease or a contract? Or was it a verbal agreement with a down payment? Either way, it is a pretty sleezy thing to do. It's incredible what some landlords will stoop to. Some people's lack of ethics is astounding at times. Well, I guess unless she is willing to take legal action, I suppose there would be nothing she could do. But, maybe it was meant to be if you guys now have the opportunity for a bigger place, with a better room for you (and a walk-in closet - I would love a walk-in closet!). That would be great! I'll will certainly keep my fingers crossed for you.My friend was trying to buy the house, not rent it. There had been a handshake between the brokers from both sides as well as a verbal agreement. My friend was told to submit the necessary papers with signature and 3% down. When my friend's broker went to hand over the papers and the check (less than 24 hours after the verbal agreement), the broker for the seller said something to the effect of "Sorry, we have since accepted another offer that was higher." Apparently it is legal because they hadn't taken the check yet (as I originally thought) or signed those papers themselves, but it is still very sleazy. I've never heard of such a thing before. My friend doesn't have any recourse.
The second place she has bid on is smaller, only two bedrooms instead of 3 and it is less desirable in other ways. It's also more expensive. The other deal she had was really too good to be true. Oh well, this could end up being really nice as well and this one does have some advantages the first one didn't have.
> -- It is overwhelming when you think of everything that has to be done. I guess if you just made a list of the stuff that needs to be done, it wouldn't all be spinning around in your head as much. Then you can check things off and see yourself making progress. It might minimize the distress a bit. Sometimes just getting our thinking organized so we can prioritize helps calm us down and helps us realize that we can do it - one step, one box at a time.
Yes, I'll definitely do that. I'm a fanatical list maker. Unfortunately I never get much done besides creating the lists. In this case, though, I would have lots of pressure to get the list completed.
> -- I have always wanted kids, but it scares me that maybe I just wouldn't be good at it. And then there is the whole worry thing. It would probably suck the life right out of me. I would always be worrying about him or her. Maybe I'll just have to marry a guy who already has kids. Then I can be stepmom and maybe there wouldn't be as much pressure.
I know exactly what you mean. I'd be terrified to have children - particularly in the U.S. where crime is a lot higher. My sister has a daughter and she worries so much. On the otherhand, she gets so much joy out of her that it is well worth it. Being a stepmom might work out for you though I think that if you bonded and grew to love the children, you'd worry plenty too.
> -- The first few times I went he used this little pin-prick type needle and pricked my fingers and knuckles (everybody gets their own needle, and you had better not forget it when you show up for a visit). He also does the full accupuncture thing. And, he is cheap - $7 a visit (a couple of times when I went he didn't even charge me and refused to take any money). I'll let you know how it goes once I get started with treatments, and I'll certainly give you his contact info if you want it.
That's fascinating about the needle pricks. I've never heard of that. How refreshing that he's not in it for the money. That's usually the sign of a true healer. I recently looked into one of the doctors around here who pioneered the brain mapping/BEAM/QEEG diagnostic system. He charged so much for everything - including a $10 fee for prescriptions. That was such a turnoff for me that on top of all of these other huge fees, he felt the need to charge for prescriptions. How petty and money grubbing can you get. I would never go to see this guy based on that alone.
Thanks for the offer of the contact info. If things do work out, please send me a babble mail with the info. It might be hard to see him if he's so far away and requires multiple visits though.
Talk to you later,
KaraP.S. I read on the main board that you're experiencing some nausea from the Provigil. I hope that goes away with time. I used to experience that with the start up of SSRIs but it almost always went away.
Posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 18:34:53
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 27, 2005, at 14:58:48
> > Hi,
>
> I probably told you already that I did some practicing of the tapping the night before last and the next day no anxiety. I don't know yet if it's related. I'm still VERY skeptical. Time will tell. My friend also promised to try more reiki on me. She's the one I'd be living with so if it helps I'd have my own therapist in-house.-- No, you hadn't told me that. That sounds encouraging. And, it can't hurt to keep trying it - it doesn't cost anything but a bit of time, so there's nothing really to lose. I have to say that when I did my first two sessions with the practioner, and even when I practiced it on my own, I thought I noticed a reduction in my anxiety and anxious thoughts. So, maybe I'll try it again too. Like you, I am always somewhat skeptical about these things. But, we have to take whatever relief we can (even if it is sometimes just placebo). That's what keeps us going.
> Have you read the CES thread yet on the main board? I'm still very interested in learning more about that. You can get your own equipment - it's small and easy to use - kind of like a walkman. It has the potential to hit all transmitters (unlike most meds) but without many side effects. The guy who started the post just purchased one so I will be following his progress closely. I'm pretty sure I read that it is approved in Canada and that you don't need a prescription to order one as you do in the U.S.
-- I started reading the thread and then got distracted. I'll finish reading tonight. That's good news that a prescription is not needed in Canada for the equipment. I am going to look into the cost and decide whether I want to consider pursuing it. I have had a bad day today (actually, it started last night). No real anxiety, but very weepy and despondent. I don't get it. Will I ever be me again? Oh well, maybe I hadn't slept well or something. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
>
> Yes, that's the plan. I hope to wear her down a bit :)
>
> Good luck :-) As the saying goes, "The strongest of all warriors are these two - Time and Patience".
>
> My friend was trying to buy the house, not rent it. There had been a handshake between the brokers from both sides as well as a verbal agreement. My friend was told to submit the necessary papers with signature and 3% down. When my friend's broker went to hand over the papers and the check (less than 24 hours after the verbal agreement), the broker for the seller said something to the effect of "Sorry, we have since accepted another offer that was higher." Apparently it is legal because they hadn't taken the check yet (as I originally thought) or signed those papers themselves, but it is still very sleazy. I've never heard of such a thing before. My friend doesn't have any recourse.
>
-- Regardless, she and her broker should have at least been given the opportunity to counter the other offer. That was very unprofessional of the other broker. Some, I guess, just don't have much integrity.> The second place she has bid on is smaller, only two bedrooms instead of 3 and it is less desirable in other ways. It's also more expensive. The other deal she had was really too good to be true. Oh well, this could end up being really nice as well and this one does have some advantages the first one didn't have.
>
-- I hope this one works out. When my brother was house hunting, he went through a similar thing - having to take his second choice. It turned out quite well, and he is very happy with the house that he got (plus it was less expensive, so that was an added bonus). But, he was discouraged and disappointed at first.> Yes, I'll definitely do that. I'm a fanatical list maker. Unfortunately I never get much done besides creating the lists. In this case, though, I would have lots of pressure to get the list completed.
>
-- I am the same way! :-) The nice thing about lists is that you don't have to make a complete list right away. You could be sitting there, or having a walk, or be in middle of tapping :-) and think of something you will need to do and just jot it down. Lists are evergreen. So, we don't have to stress ourselves over making a comprehensive list all at once. When my older brother was getting his house ready to sell, I went down to give him a hand for a week (he lives in another city). I spent days stripping wallpaper, cleaning and organizing, etc., on top of looking after his kids while he had an opportunity to take a bit of a break. The last day I was there, I was up for 24 hours straight finishing some painting, etc. Then I made a list of all the things that still had to be done and left it on the coffee table for him. It was funny because he had spent the night at his girlfriends's place and when he got home he came across the list and started hustling around doing the stuff I had listed before he had to take me to the train. I think he was feeling a bit guilty!
>
> I know exactly what you mean. I'd be terrified to have children - particularly in the U.S. where crime is a lot higher. My sister has a daughter and she worries so much. On the otherhand, she gets so much joy out of her that it is well worth it. Being a stepmom might work out for you though I think that if you bonded and grew to love the children, you'd worry plenty too.
>
-- You are right. It doesn't matter if they are your own, biological kids. Once a bond has been established, the worry and instinct to protect just comes naturally. It's human nature to feel worry about others and feel protective I guess.
>
> That's fascinating about the needle pricks. I've never heard of that. How refreshing that he's not in it for the money. That's usually the sign of a true healer. I recently looked into one of the doctors around here who pioneered the brain mapping/BEAM/QEEG diagnostic system. He charged so much for everything - including a $10 fee for prescriptions. That was such a turnoff for me that on top of all of these other huge fees, he felt the need to charge for prescriptions. How petty and money grubbing can you get. I would never go to see this guy based on that alone.
>
-- This guy leads a very simple life apparently. He spends a lot of time meditating and he eats minimally but well. He seems to have found peace and harmony which must be such a wonderful thing. He was struck with polio when he was younger (he has a very noticeable limp) and even spent time as a POW, but he has perservered. He's quite an inspiration and very self-less. His brother and sister both work with him, and they as self-less as he is. I know what you mean about the money-grubbers though. I went to a hypnotist years ago who was very expensive and, well, turned out to be a quack. And, to top it off, he was really creepy. He would sometimes go off on a rant about his life (things that I really didn't need to hear or want to hear). After a few visits, I just got so creeped out by him that I didn't go back. It gives me the willies every time I think about it and him.
> Thanks for the offer of the contact info. If things do work out, please send me a babble mail with the info. It might be hard to see him if he's so far away and requires multiple visits though.
>
-- I will do that. And, if you decide you want to pursue it, you would certainly have a place to stay here. All are welcome at my home.> Talk to you later,
Tamara
>
> P.S. I read on the main board that you're experiencing some nausea from the Provigil. I hope that goes away with time. I used to experience that with the start up of SSRIs but it almost always went away.
>
-- I hope it goes away too. I have been experiencing so much nausea over the past year that it is becoming very frustrating and beyond a nuisance. I'll try to go up to 100 mg tomorrow and limit my coffee to one or two cups a day (probably decaf). I am sending my pdoc an e-mail. I had hoped that I would not have to go back to see him this soon. I just don't have it in me to do it. I may give up on him and try the L-Tyrosine again if the nausea continues to be bad. But, I won't give up on it just yet. >
Posted by KaraS on February 27, 2005, at 22:42:38
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 18:34:53
Hi,
> -- No, you hadn't told me that. That sounds encouraging. And, it can't hurt to keep trying it - it doesn't cost anything but a bit of time, so there's nothing really to lose. I have to say that when I did my first two sessions with the practioner, and even when I practiced it on my own, I thought I noticed a reduction in my anxiety and anxious thoughts. So, maybe I'll try it again too. Like you, I am always somewhat skeptical about these things. But, we have to take whatever relief we can (even if it is sometimes just placebo). That's what keeps us going.Absolutely, we cling to whatever hope we can find.
> -- I started reading the thread and then got distracted. I'll finish reading tonight. That's good news that a prescription is not needed in Canada for the equipment. I am going to look into the cost and decide whether I want to consider pursuing it. I have had a bad day today (actually, it started last night). No real anxiety, but very weepy and despondent. I don't get it. Will I ever be me again? Oh well, maybe I hadn't slept well or something. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
I'll definitely wait to see what happens with the 2 guys who are discussing CES in the thread before I commit to ordering it. It's just nice to have another potential option - something that might actually work on motivation.
I'm so sorry to hear about your bad day. I admit to being just as baffled as you are at the fickleness of these mood changes. I can't quite figure out why some of my days are encouraging and others are so anxious and despondent. I guess we're lucky that every day isn't as bad as our worst days. It must be particularly hard to take if you've been a happy and upbeat person in the past. (I've been dysthymic my entire adult life punctuated with periods of major depression. Unfortunately I can't even imagine not living with depression to some extent.)
> > Good luck :-) As the saying goes, "The strongest of all warriors are these two - Time and Patience".
That's a good saying to remember. You know a lot of great sayings!
> -- Regardless, she and her broker should have at least been given the opportunity to counter the other offer. That was very unprofessional of the other broker. Some, I guess, just don't have much integrity.
You're right. It really was unprofessional. My sister is in real estate and she thought it was appalling. She thought that my friend had cause to sue the seller and broker.
> -- I hope this one works out. When my brother was house hunting, he went through a similar thing - having to take his second choice. It turned out quite well, and he is very happy with the house that he got (plus it was less expensive, so that was an added bonus). But, he was discouraged and disappointed at first.I just heard that my friend's latest offer has been accepted so we're back on the roler coaster. I think this one could turn out to be a good choice as well.
> -- I am the same way! :-) The nice thing about lists is that you don't have to make a complete list right away. You could be sitting there, or having a walk, or be in middle of tapping :-) and think of something you will need to do and just jot it down. Lists are evergreen. So, we don't have to stress ourselves over making a comprehensive list all at once. When my older brother was getting his house ready to sell, I went down to give him a hand for a week (he lives in another city). I spent days stripping wallpaper, cleaning and organizing, etc., on top of looking after his kids while he had an opportunity to take a bit of a break. The last day I was there, I was up for 24 hours straight finishing some painting, etc. Then I made a list of all the things that still had to be done and left it on the coffee table for him. It was funny because he had spent the night at his girlfriends's place and when he got home he came across the list and started hustling around doing the stuff I had listed before he had to take me to the train. I think he was feeling a bit guilty!
Yeah, I'm always jotting items down to add to the "master" list later on. I just wish I got more items accomplished. That was incredibly nice of you to go to another city and then do so much to help your brother move.
> -- You are right. It doesn't matter if they are your own, biological kids. Once a bond has been established, the worry and instinct to protect just comes naturally. It's human nature to feel worry about others and feel protective I guess.
I worry a lot about my cats too. Sometimes I think even that's too much responsibility for me.
> -- This guy leads a very simple life apparently. He spends a lot of time meditating and he eats minimally but well. He seems to have found peace and harmony which must be such a wonderful thing. He was struck with polio when he was younger (he has a very noticeable limp) and even spent time as a POW, but he has perservered. He's quite an inspiration and very self-less. His brother and sister both work with him, and they as self-less as he is. I know what you mean about the money-grubbers though. I went to a hypnotist years ago who was very expensive and, well, turned out to be a quack. And, to top it off, he was really creepy. He would sometimes go off on a rant about his life (things that I really didn't need to hear or want to hear). After a few visits, I just got so creeped out by him that I didn't go back. It gives me the willies every time I think about it and him.
It's so rare to hear about people who are so selfless and unconcerned with money. Truly a very evolved soul. (That applies to his siblings as well.) The hypnotist does sound creepy. Unfortunately some people out there exploit those of us with emotional problems.
> -- I will do that. And, if you decide you want to pursue it, you would certainly have a place to stay here. All are welcome at my home.
Thank you so much. That's so sweet of you.
> -- I hope it goes away too. I have been experiencing so much nausea over the past year that it is becoming very frustrating and beyond a nuisance. I'll try to go up to 100 mg tomorrow and limit my coffee to one or two cups a day (probably decaf). I am sending my pdoc an e-mail. I had hoped that I would not have to go back to see him this soon. I just don't have it in me to do it. I may give up on him and try the L-Tyrosine again if the nausea continues to be bad. But, I won't give up on it just yet. >
Nausea is the worst. I hated having to try to force food down. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that yours goes away soon.
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 23:34:11
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 27, 2005, at 22:42:38
> Hi,
>
>
> I'll definitely wait to see what happens with the 2 guys who are discussing CES in the thread before I commit to ordering it. It's just nice to have another potential option - something that might actually work on motivation.
>
-- That's right. I know that action = motivation = more action, but when your mind is constantly telling you NO ACTION, it is hard to get over that hump. So, anything that gives us that kick-start and a boost would be most welcome. I am definitely going to check it out.> I'm so sorry to hear about your bad day. I admit to being just as baffled as you are at the fickleness of these mood changes. I can't quite figure out why some of my days are encouraging and others are so anxious and despondent. I guess we're lucky that every day isn't as bad as our worst days. It must be particularly hard to take if you've been a happy and upbeat person in the past. (I've been dysthymic my entire adult life punctuated with periods of major depression. Unfortunately I can't even imagine not living with depression to some extent.)
>
-- I don't know what happened. I have felt lousy since late yesterday (I was hoping that yesterday was just a blip), and I have been crying on and off all day. It just doesn't make sense. I am beginning to think it is hormonal. I sent a long e-mail to my pdoc today to tell him how I have been doing. I have to go back work in 2 weeks, and if I have any more days like today and yesterday, I just don't know if I can do it. I want so much to get back into the swing of things and not let anyone down.
> >
> You're right. It really was unprofessional. My sister is in real estate and she thought it was appalling. She thought that my friend had cause to sue the seller and broker.
>
-- I am sure there are legal precedence for situations like that where there was a perhaps a contract in principle (implied contract perhaps). I guess the question would be whether a person would want to invest money, time and energy into pursuing legal action. I would imagine most don't because, like your friend, they manage to find something else. Oh well. At least not all brokers lack integrity.
> > >
> I just heard that my friend's latest offer has been accepted so we're back on the roler coaster. I think this one could turn out to be a good choice as well.
>
-- That is great news! New digs on the horizon. My fingers are crossed that all goes smoothly, with as little stress as possible.
> >
> I worry a lot about my cats too. Sometimes I think even that's too much responsibility for me.
>
-- I am the same way with my dog. I can't imagine how much I would worry about a child. There have been days that just knowing I have to take care of my dog have kept me going (in spite of the love of family and friends). I worry about who would take care of her if I wasn't here.> Nausea is the worst. I hated having to try to force food down. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that yours goes away soon.
>
-- Thanks. I agree, it is the worst. I can't imagine how some women put up with months of morning sickness. Must be awful. I can usually handle a bit of nausea, but I have had so much extreme nausea for the past year that my resistence is wearing down. I think I may pick up some ginger just to keep on hand. I have found it excellent for nausea. Even my mom (who always poo poos alternative treatments has tried it and had really good results from it).All the best,
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 3:30:47
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 27, 2005, at 23:34:11
Hi,
> >
> -- That's right. I know that action = motivation = more action, but when your mind is constantly telling you NO ACTION, it is hard to get over that hump. So, anything that gives us that kick-start and a boost would be most welcome. I am definitely going to check it out.The only thing that has me a bit worried is one of Larry's posts about its classification. OTOH, this doctor Braverman uses it with his patients and there have been numerous studies done on it. I haven't read of any problematic side effects in any of the studies.
> -- I don't know what happened. I have felt lousy since late yesterday (I was hoping that yesterday was just a blip), and I have been crying on and off all day. It just doesn't make sense. I am beginning to think it is hormonal. I sent a long e-mail to my pdoc today to tell him how I have been doing. I have to go back work in 2 weeks, and if I have any more days like today and yesterday, I just don't know if I can do it. I want so much to get back into the swing of things and not let anyone down.Hormones can wreak a lot of havoc on our systems. That could very well be the cause if there's no other external reason for your mood change. It's worth looking into. Try not to worry so much about letting others down. You have medical problems. You can't help it. You need to do whatever is going to get you well - not whatever is going to make other people happy. I struggle with that same issue. It's not an easy situation.
> -- I am sure there are legal precedence for situations like that where there was a perhaps a contract in principle (implied contract perhaps). I guess the question would be whether a person would want to invest money, time and energy into pursuing legal action. I would imagine most don't because, like your friend, they manage to find something else. Oh well. At least not all brokers lack integrity.
My friend is a very positive thinker. She says it just wasn't meant to be and that there may be some good reason why she didn't get the house. At least my friend's broker is a really nice guy - definitely a lot of integrity. I try hard to note the good people in the world otherwise I get too depressed over all of the sleazoids out there.
> -- That is great news! New digs on the horizon. My fingers are crossed that all goes smoothly, with as little stress as possible.
So far so good but we've been down this path twice before and it didn't work out either of those times. I have a feeling that the third time is the charm though.
> -- I am the same way with my dog. I can't imagine how much I would worry about a child. There have been days that just knowing I have to take care of my dog have kept me going (in spite of the love of family and friends). I worry about who would take care of her if I wasn't here.Yeah, same here. I worry that if I weren't able to take care of them, then they'd be up for adoption - stuck in cages for days on end. They could end up with people who don't take good care of them or even abuse them. I can't stand to think about it. I just have to manage to take care of them.
> -- Thanks. I agree, it is the worst. I can't imagine how some women put up with months of morning sickness. Must be awful. I can usually handle a bit of nausea, but I have had so much extreme nausea for the past year that my resistence is wearing down. I think I may pick up some ginger just to keep on hand. I have found it excellent for nausea. Even my mom (who always poo poos alternative treatments has tried it and had really good results from it).
When I first was diagnosed with CFS I had flu like systoms that came and went. It was like a stomach flu and it would run its course like a regular virus. I'd feel better for a while and then it would start again. The nausea was worse than the fatigue or other symptoms. I thought I was going to have to live my whole life with that nausea. Fortunately as the years passed, the attacks came less frequently. Then it got to the point where I only get them if I'm really run down. This last episode of extreme anxiety where I wasn't sleeping or eating, I thought for sure I'd get a CFS attack but it didn't happen. I guess if there's a silver lining here...
Are you feeling any better today? Less nausea, less sad? I read your post below about stopping smoking. Are you sure you want to do that now? It's going to add a lot more stress at an already stressful time. Is there any way you could get the nicotine patches to help you with this?
K
Posted by TamaraJ on March 1, 2005, at 11:04:21
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 3:30:47
> Hi,
>
> Hormones can wreak a lot of havoc on our systems. That could very well be the cause if there's no other external reason for your mood change. It's worth looking into. Try not to worry so much about letting others down. You have medical problems. You can't help it. You need to do whatever is going to get you well - not whatever is going to make other people happy. I struggle with that same issue. It's not an easy situation.
>
-- I know what you mean. My hormones have been crazy lately. It is the second cycle I have had in a month (yet again). When that happens, my mood and energy really take a nosedive. I slept and slept and slept yesterday, which is so unlike me. When I feel like this, I know I am not ready to go back to work. I can't even take care of myself when I am like this. I had so hoped that I would have some energy to start doing some things like exercising, etc. so I would be ready for work. But, I know I am of no use to anyone right now. I sent an e-mail to my pdoc. I told him that I don't even have the emotional or physical fortitude right now to come in for an appointment and that I would even be willing to re-try the Anafranil to see if I can get up to 75 mg. I can't go on like this much longer. And, it is time I was completely honest with people about the depth of the depression. I have tried to be upbeat and have people believe that I am just mildly depressed, but I am not doing myself any favors by doing that. I hope the pdoc calls me back today. He may, however, be fed up with me. And, what's so hard is that I don't even have a family doctor that I can go to. Whine! Whine! Whine! Sorry Kara, you didn't need to hear all that. I apologize.
>
> My friend is a very positive thinker. She says it just wasn't meant to be and that there may be some good reason why she didn't get the house. At least my friend's broker is a really nice guy - definitely a lot of integrity. I try hard to note the good people in the world otherwise I get too depressed over all of the sleazoids out there.
>
-- It's good that your friend has maintained a positive outlook throughout all of this. And, she's lucky that her broker has a lot of integrity. I agree with you - we have to look for the good in people. Life would just be too hard to take if we couldn't find good in at least some people. But, there are good, honest and caring people out there. So, that makes it all worthwhile.
>
> So far so good but we've been down this path twice before and it didn't work out either of those times. I have a feeling that the third time is the charm though.
>
-- That's the attitude :-) What is that expression - the universe unfolds as it should (?) My fingers, toes, legs and even my eyes are crossed for you guys!
> >
> Yeah, same here. I worry that if I weren't able to take care of them, then they'd be up for adoption - stuck in cages for days on end. They could end up with people who don't take good care of them or even abuse them. I can't stand to think about it. I just have to manage to take care of them.
>
-- That's the way I feel too. I got my dog from the Humane Society, and it was heartbreaking to see all those dogs in cages needing homes. Luckily, my dog had only been there for a few days when I got her, so she didn't seem any the worse for wear after her experience. I wish I had a farm and then I could take them all home with me and they could be safe and happy. I wish more people would get their pets from the Humane Society instead of going to breeders and pet stores. It's sad.
>
> When I first was diagnosed with CFS I had flu like systoms that came and went. It was like a stomach flu and it would run its course like a regular virus. I'd feel better for a while and then it would start again. The nausea was worse than the fatigue or other symptoms. I thought I was going to have to live my whole life with that nausea. Fortunately as the years passed, the attacks came less frequently. Then it got to the point where I only get them if I'm really run down. This last episode of extreme anxiety where I wasn't sleeping or eating, I thought for sure I'd get a CFS attack but it didn't happen. I guess if there's a silver lining here...
>
-- I just can't imagine how hard it must be to live with CFS. My heart goes out to you. A friend of mine has CFS, and it has been really hard on him. He was always so active - a real workaholic. He has adjusted to it, but it took a number of years before he was able to accept and adjust to his limitations. I'm glad for you that you didn't experience a flare up of your CFS symptoms during the most recent period of extreme anxiety. Thank goodness. The anxiety alone is enough!
>
> Are you feeling any better today? Less nausea, less sad? I read your post below about stopping smoking. Are you sure you want to do that now? It's going to add a lot more stress at an already stressful time. Is there any way you could get the nicotine patches to help you with this?
>
-- I just feel drained. And, as for quitting smoking, maybe what I have to do to begin with is try to cut down. That hasn't always been the most effective approach for me, but I will try. I didn't take any Provigil yesterday or today, and I don't have a piercing headache or any nausea. I will probably try the Provigil again tomorrow to see how I react. Maybe it's just not for me. Bummer. The headache I could handle, but the nausea was gutwrenching (a real burning sensation and like I was constantly going to throw up - yuk). Oh well. There has to be something out there that will help me. Seems like both of us are having a heck of a time finding not only a med that works, but also one that we can tolerate. How's the Zoloft titration going? Have you been able to tolerate increasing the dose even modestly? Any more thought to trying a different AD? And, have you been able to keep the anxiety under control a bit more lately? It is amazing how much anxiety can exacerbate depression, isn't it? Well, I will keep thinking positive thoughts that you can begin to tolerate a closer to therapeutic dose of the Zoloft or that you find a more suitable and tolerable AD.Take good care of yourself Kara. I will talk to you soon.
Tamara
>
Posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 16:09:22
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on March 1, 2005, at 11:04:21
Hi,
> >
> -- I know what you mean. My hormones have been crazy lately. It is the second cycle I have had in a month (yet again). When that happens, my mood and energy really take a nosedive. I slept and slept and slept yesterday, which is so unlike me. When I feel like this, I know I am not ready to go back to work. I can't even take care of myself when I am like this. I had so hoped that I would have some energy to start doing some things like exercising, etc. so I would be ready for work. But, I know I am of no use to anyone right now. I sent an e-mail to my pdoc. I told him that I don't even have the emotional or physical fortitude right now to come in for an appointment and that I would even be willing to re-try the Anafranil to see if I can get up to 75 mg. I can't go on like this much longer. And, it is time I was completely honest with people about the depth of the depression. I have tried to be upbeat and have people believe that I am just mildly depressed, but I am not doing myself any favors by doing that. I hope the pdoc calls me back today. He may, however, be fed up with me. And, what's so hard is that I don't even have a family doctor that I can go to. Whine! Whine! Whine! Sorry Kara, you didn't need to hear all that. I apologize.
> >Don't apologize for ranting. I've done my share here. We have good reason to rant! We're having a really hard time and we need to vent. It's better to do so with people who understand and are going through the same thing. Are you convinced that hormones are invovled? Is there any bipoloarity in your family? There is none in mine though my pdoc thinks I may be "soft bipolar". I don't have mood swings but I get periods of more agitation. I don't know if it's hormonal or a soft bipolar condition. I think I'm going to try taking some of the lithium orotate later on and see if that helps me at all.
But back to you and your work situation, I think you're wise to acknowledge that you're not ready. I'm so sorry to hear that though. I know how hard it must be for you to admit that to yourself and to your supervisor. You would only make things worse if you tried to push yourself. You really had no other choice. Depression and anxiety are so hard to deal with. With any other condition, you have some tools to work with. With depression/anxiety, we don't even have the energy for a fight. It's the hardest thing to deal with. I wish your doctor would let you try nortriptyline. I don't understand why he's so against it. It's not a dangerous, on the edge kind of a choice.
> -- It's good that your friend has maintained a positive outlook throughout all of this. And, she's lucky that her broker has a lot of integrity. I agree with you - we have to look for the good in people. Life would just be too hard to take if we couldn't find good in at least some people. But, there are good, honest and caring people out there. So, that makes it all worthwhile.
My pdoc is another really good person. In fact I think he's a saint. He talks to me on the phone, advises and prescribes for me without charging me because he knows I don't have any money. He is willing to listen to my input and doesn't talk down to me when I suggest things. I don't know where I'd be right now if he hadn't been there to prescribe for me immediately when I was so incapacitated with anxiety (and this after seeing him once in the last year). I keep trying to think of something I could do for him or a gift I could give him for being so kind to me. With all of the money grubbers out there, it sure is nice to know that there are also some saints.
> -- That's the attitude :-) What is that expression - the universe unfolds as it should (?) My fingers, toes, legs and even my eyes are crossed for you guys!
Thanks so much. I think it's only a matter of time even if the current offer doesn't work out.
> -- That's the way I feel too. I got my dog from the Humane Society, and it was heartbreaking to see all those dogs in cages needing homes. Luckily, my dog had only been there for a few days when I got her, so she didn't seem any the worse for wear after her experience. I wish I had a farm and then I could take them all home with me and they could be safe and happy. I wish more people would get their pets from the Humane Society instead of going to breeders and pet stores. It's sad.I know. I wish I had a house big enough to adopt all of the animals who needed a good home (not to mention the funds to take care of them). I wish they'd shut down those breeders and the pet store sales and force people to adopt animals who are already here and need homes. But I can't think about this for too long. It's too upsetting and it doesn't do me or the animals up for adoption any good.
> -- I just can't imagine how hard it must be to live with CFS. My heart goes out to you. A friend of mine has CFS, and it has been really hard on him. He was always so active - a real workaholic. He has adjusted to it, but it took a number of years before he was able to accept and adjust to his limitations. I'm glad for you that you didn't experience a flare up of your CFS symptoms during the most recent period of extreme anxiety. Thank goodness. The anxiety alone is enough!
The CFS isn't a big deal in my life now. It doesn't occur often enough and I can usually prevent it by not letting myself get run down. It was h*llish for a while there though. I wish I had known that it would get better when I was initially going through it. That would have helped immensely - but fortunately it's not a huge problem now.
> -- I just feel drained. And, as for quitting smoking, maybe what I have to do to begin with is try to cut down. That hasn't always been the most effective approach for me, but I will try. I didn't take any Provigil yesterday or today, and I don't have a piercing headache or any nausea. I will probably try the Provigil again tomorrow to see how I react. Maybe it's just not for me. Bummer. The headache I could handle, but the nausea was gutwrenching (a real burning sensation and like I was constantly going to throw up - yuk). Oh well. There has to be something out there that will help me. Seems like both of us are having a heck of a time finding not only a med that works, but also one that we can tolerate. How's the Zoloft titration going? Have you been able to tolerate increasing the dose even modestly? Any more thought to trying a different AD? And, have you been able to keep the anxiety under control a bit more lately? It is amazing how much anxiety can exacerbate depression, isn't it? Well, I will keep thinking positive thoughts that you can begin to tolerate a closer to therapeutic dose of the Zoloft or that you find a more suitable and tolerable AD.
If you do cut back now, do it very gradually. You don't need any more anxiety than you have right now. As for the Provigil, the nausea and headache sound horrible. I don't know whether it will pass if you manage to take it longer. I guess only you can decide if you can stand to continue on it. I often read about people (on the main board) who have been close to discontinuing something but managed to persevere and work through the initial side effects and were glad that they did. OTOH, there are no guarantees that it will work or the side effects will diminish. Just wish we had a way of knowing!
I stopped taking the Zoloft. I may try it again soon though. It was making me too anxious at a time when my anxiety wasn't yet under control. I also had only a mild antidepressant effect from it previously so I'm not expecting much from it anyway. In the past it has calmed the anxiety and allowed me to work (though I still couldn't keep my apartment clean and in order.) I was hoping for that now. Even with the Effexor, it helped somewhat with mood but left me apathetic and unable to take care of my apartment or push myself to find a job. I was just hoping to get on one of these drugs and control the anxiety and provide some functioning while I tried to figure out what else to do. It was a big surprise that I haven't been able to tolerate either of these meds or the maprotiline that I've used so much in the past. It felt like I was losing ground rather than moving forward and that was really scary. I'm sure you understand because you're having a hard time tolerating meds.
Right now I'm on only 25 mg. of doxepin and it is really getting the anxiety under control. The agoraphobia is almost gone as well as the panic. This med worked wonders for me years ago in a similar situation and it is doing so again now. My doctor said that I could increase the doxepin instead of trying to get onto the Zoloft. I am considering it but at the higher dosages come the side effects and the serious impairment of cognition. At the moment I think I'm going to try to stay on this small dosage and add more exercise, the tapping, lightbox (been using it every morning for about a week now), vitamin D, increase fish oil, utilize CBT, meditation with visualization, aroma therapy and even more of the reiki. I'm also going to try to get into a support group, get formal CBT training and get an idividual therapist. I may also try that CES device if I can get a prescription for it. If all of this doesn't work or I'm not able to do it all then I may try an MAOI or maybe the selegiline patch which will hopefully be on the market soon. I don't have the energy yet to do all of these things at once but I'm finding that it's getting easier to start doing some things and so I'm hoping that the rest will follow. I want to find something(s) that will give a complete response - not just allow some mood lift. I want energy, motivation and drive!!!
Back to you...you had some success in the past with amino acids, didn't you? Have you tried tryptophan? Dr. Slagle has a program where you use the tryptophan at night and the tyrosine during the day. Or perhaps a new pdoc might be willing to prescribe nortriptyline for you. A lot of people find it very easy to tolerate. It's less likely (as you know) to give you the blood pressure problems like clomipramine did. Would you ever consider an MAOI? (I know your current pdoc would never go for it.) Who knows, maybe this healer/doctor you're going to see this month may be able to help you.
I know we'll figure this out eventually. It may take a little more time than we hoped though.
Hang in there. You'll get through this!
Kara
Posted by TamaraJ on March 1, 2005, at 18:33:43
In reply to Re: Kara, my turn. How you are doing? » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on March 1, 2005, at 16:09:22
> Hi,
> > >
> > >
> Don't apologize for ranting. I've done my share here. We have good reason to rant! We're having a really hard time and we need to vent. It's better to do so with people who understand and are going through the same thing. Are you convinced that hormones are invovled? Is there any bipoloarity in your family? There is none in mine though my pdoc thinks I may be "soft bipolar". I don't have mood swings but I get periods of more agitation. I don't know if it's hormonal or a soft bipolar condition. I think I'm going to try taking some of the lithium orotate later on and see if that helps me at all.
>
-- Thanks Kara. You're right! We do have reason to rant! I remember last fall you talking about your pdoc thinking you may be "soft bipolar". Lithium orotate may be just what you need. It might even help quell your anxiety as well. There is no diagnosed bipolar in my family. As I mentioned before, my dad had many symptoms, especially the extreme highs and then a crash. I guess, however, we never know what our grandparents and great aunts and uncles may have suffered from. There may be a hereditary link somewhere that we just aren't aware of. It's funny because my family doctor sent me to the pdoc because she thought I might be bipolar. I was surprised because of my age. I raised it with the pdoc during the first visit and he said no that I was just very hyper. I have gone through periods where I have been quite impulsive and had probably what some might consider hypomania, but the lows have never really been bad. Some of these periods were cycle related, but not all.
> But back to you and your work situation, I think you're wise to acknowledge that you're not ready. I'm so sorry to hear that though. I know how hard it must be for you to admit that to yourself and to your supervisor. You would only make things worse if you tried to push yourself. You really had no other choice. Depression and anxiety are so hard to deal with. With any other condition, you have some tools to work with. With depression/anxiety, we don't even have the energy for a fight. It's the hardest thing to deal with. I wish your doctor would let you try nortriptyline. I don't understand why he's so against it. It's not a dangerous, on the edge kind of a choice.
>
-- I feel like such a fraud. I have tried so hard to keep a smile on my face and in my voice when speaking with my friends from work and my boss. I haven't been entirely honest with my boss about the severity of the depression. I wasn't even completely honest with the pdoc or my doctor when I think about it. I didn't do myself any favours I guess. I was afraid of what they would do to me or think of me if I shared with them the dark thoughts I was having. Oh well. Live and learn. The pdoc has not called me back yet. I hope he does. I hope he isn't that cold-hearted that he wouldn't call back. He cancelled my last appointment and I had a conflict (with the surgeon) with the only two alternative times he had available. And, I forgot to make another appointment. He must be fed up with me.
> >
> My pdoc is another really good person. In fact I think he's a saint. He talks to me on the phone, advises and prescribes for me without charging me because he knows I don't have any money. He is willing to listen to my input and doesn't talk down to me when I suggest things. I don't know where I'd be right now if he hadn't been there to prescribe for me immediately when I was so incapacitated with anxiety (and this after seeing him once in the last year). I keep trying to think of something I could do for him or a gift I could give him for being so kind to me. With all of the money grubbers out there, it sure is nice to know that there are also some saints.
>
-- You are very fortunate to have found such a good, understanding, open-minded and compassionate pdoc. That's great. It makes a difference I would imagine when you feel comfortable and safe and know that the person has your best interests at heart and allows you to be an active participant in your treatment. Not many like that around. I am sure he knows how much you appreciate him. When you're up to it, perhaps you can find a really meaningful card and send it to him. I have often been touched more by a thoughtful card and the time the person spent in chosing just the right card than a gift.
>
>> The CFS isn't a big deal in my life now. It doesn't occur often enough and I can usually prevent it by not letting myself get run down. It was h*llish for a while there though. I wish I had known that it would get better when I was initially going through it. That would have helped immensely - but fortunately it's not a huge problem now.
>
-- That's good that it is under control or in partial remission. Depression and anxiety are hard enough to deal with, things don't need to get even more complicated and distressing by adding CFS into the mix.
>
> If you do cut back now, do it very gradually. You don't need any more anxiety than you have right now. As for the Provigil, the nausea and headache sound horrible. I don't know whether it will pass if you manage to take it longer. I guess only you can decide if you can stand to continue on it. I often read about people (on the main board) who have been close to discontinuing something but managed to persevere and work through the initial side effects and were glad that they did. OTOH, there are no guarantees that it will work or the side effects will diminish. Just wish we had a way of knowing!
>
-- I didn't take any Provigil today and no nausea or headache. I may try again tomorrow to see what my reaction is. The headache was intermittent, but it was like one side of my head was being pierced by a knife. It was kind of scary at first. I agree, it would be nice if we had some inkling of how we would respond to the meds we have been prescribed. It starts to take its toll after a while when we experience one failure after another.> I stopped taking the Zoloft. I may try it again soon though. It was making me too anxious at a time when my anxiety wasn't yet under control. I also had only a mild antidepressant effect from it previously so I'm not expecting much from it anyway. In the past it has calmed the anxiety and allowed me to work (though I still couldn't keep my apartment clean and in order.) I was hoping for that now. Even with the Effexor, it helped somewhat with mood but left me apathetic and unable to take care of my apartment or push myself to find a job. I was just hoping to get on one of these drugs and control the anxiety and provide some functioning while I tried to figure out what else to do. It was a big surprise that I haven't been able to tolerate either of these meds or the maprotiline that I've used so much in the past. It felt like I was losing ground rather than moving forward and that was really scary. I'm sure you understand because you're having a hard time tolerating meds.
>
-- I'm sorry about the Zoloft. I don't think you are alone though (not that it's any consolation :-(). Some people have a hard time with it because of increased anxiety and agitation. I think it tends to be more activating than other SSRIs. I understand how discouraging it can be to be searching for the elusive med that will provide some measure of relief. Sometimes, even moderate relief would be welcome. I wonder if the Lithium you are thinking about adding eventually might help even out the effect of a more activating AD? I guess all we can hang on to is hope. As long as there are ADs we haven't tried, then there is still hope. But, I know that every failed trial brings with it a bit of discouragement.> Right now I'm on only 25 mg. of doxepin and it is really getting the anxiety under control. The agoraphobia is almost gone as well as the panic. This med worked wonders for me years ago in a similar situation and it is doing so again now. My doctor said that I could increase the doxepin instead of trying to get onto the Zoloft. I am considering it but at the higher dosages come the side effects and the serious impairment of cognition. At the moment I think I'm going to try to stay on this small dosage and add more exercise, the tapping, lightbox (been using it every morning for about a week now), vitamin D, increase fish oil, utilize CBT, meditation with visualization, aroma therapy and even more of the reiki. I'm also going to try to get into a support group, get formal CBT training and get an idividual therapist. I may also try that CES device if I can get a prescription for it. If all of this doesn't work or I'm not able to do it all then I may try an MAOI or maybe the selegiline patch which will hopefully be on the market soon. I don't have the energy yet to do all of these things at once but I'm finding that it's getting easier to start doing some things and so I'm hoping that the rest will follow. I want to find something(s) that will give a complete response - not just allow some mood lift. I want energy, motivation and drive!!!
>
-- You have to do what you think is best for you. It's good that you have enough emotional energy to be thinking about the things you want to do to help you recover. One thing at a time is a good credo. A support group would be wonderful and a great place to be among and learn from people who have been, or are going through, similar experiences. It is something I would like to do as well. Energy, drive and motivation - I hear you! That's the goal!> Back to you...you had some success in the past with amino acids, didn't you? Have you tried tryptophan? Dr. Slagle has a program where you use the tryptophan at night and the tyrosine during the day. Or perhaps a new pdoc might be willing to prescribe nortriptyline for you. A lot of people find it very easy to tolerate. It's less likely (as you know) to give you the blood pressure problems like clomipramine did. Would you ever consider an MAOI? (I know your current pdoc would never go for it.) Who knows, maybe this healer/doctor you're going to see this month may be able to help you.
>
-- I may well try the aminos again, maybe even this week. And, I may cave in and try the Clomipramine again and see if I can keep my blood pressure up with more salt tablets so that I can go up to 75mg. I don't know if I would ever be able to stick to the MAOI diet - I am a very fussy eater, and absolutely love cheese. I just hope the pdoc calls me back. In my e-mail to him I explained that I had suggested nort because some people had suggested that the side effects were less severe and it was better tolerated than clomipramine. Maybe that might help change his mind. Ed (ed_uk) had provided me with an article that validated that, so I could always e-mail that him for information. But, then again, I don't want to tick him off any more than I may already have :-)
> I know we'll figure this out eventually. It may take a little more time than we hoped though.
>
-- That's right. We will keep fighting the good fight!> Hang in there. You'll get through this!
>
-- Right back atcha Kara. And, thanks for your kindness and understanding.Tamara
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