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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Emme on October 4, 2004, at 23:37:32
The talk about loneliness was making me think about whether having friends IRL with mood and anxiety problems helps with my sense of isolation/loneliness or not. I decided it depends on the person.
Then just for kicks I did the head count. I jotted it down and about *half* have some history of depression, postpartum depression, bipolar, OCD, or anxiety/panic! (With a few of those, it's a strong suspicion.) Their conditions aren't all severe, but some have been. With most of these folks, their disorders hadn't emerged when I first met them. In most cases, mine hadn't either.
That means: either birds of a feather instintively flock together without knowing it. Or mood and anxiety problems are incredibly common. Or both.
How 'bout you guys? Are you surrounded by fellow sufferers by chance?
And yes. Loneliness is the pits. When I have a bad social life, it wrecks my perspective and I feel less normal and mood control gets worse. As does being around people I have absolutely nothing in common with.
Posted by ron1953 on October 5, 2004, at 2:24:27
In reply to The head count, posted by Emme on October 4, 2004, at 23:37:32
Good question, Emme.
We see most of the people we know only on the surface and have no idea what's going on inside. We just assume they're happy and well-adjusted. If they are, that's great. But most people hide behind a facade, whether they're happy or not. So often there's no way of knowing. Then there's TV, where everybody's happy. I think I'll throw mine out tomorrow.
I'm trying to learn the difference between loneliness and simply being alone. They're not the same thing. I have been happy alone lots of times. Being "alone in a crowd" is the worst. My lonely times have been much more frequent and disturbing since my separation. I miss the companionship. We didn't necessarily have to be doing something together. It was comforting just knowing she was there. After 30 years, living alone is quite an adjustment.
Ron
Posted by Emme on October 5, 2004, at 8:44:21
In reply to Re: The head count » Emme, posted by ron1953 on October 5, 2004, at 2:24:27
> We see most of the people we know only on the
> surface and have no idea what's going on inside.
> We just assume they're happy and well-adjusted.Yeah, that's true. It's easy to think everyone's got it together.
> If they are, that's great. But most people hide > behind a facade, whether they're happy or not.
> So often there's no way of knowing.I think that's where it's beneficial to tell friends that you've known a while and trust. A few people I know believe that psychotropic meds are oversprescribed. They don't say it, but you wonder if they think you should get off yours. But most don't. I've had some surprises pop out. When I let someone know, they'll come right on out with their own experiences. Turns out so-and-so has panic attacks, so-and-so is trying out Celexa, so and so has spent days immobilized.
Hence my general idea of the head count.
> Then there's > TV, where everybody's happy. I think I'll throw > mine out tomorrow.
You need to watch something a little more depressing. <joking> Maybe Law & Order. Or The Practice, where every other client pleads insanity.
> I'm trying to learn the difference between loneliness and simply being alone. They're not the same thing. I have been happy alone lots of times. Being "alone in a crowd" is the worst. My lonely times have been much more frequent and disturbing since my separation. I miss the companionship. We didn't necessarily have to be doing something together. It was comforting just knowing she was there. After 30 years, living alone is quite an adjustment.
I can only imagine how difficult that must be to get used to. Coming home to a solitary home where you didn't before. Do you at least get some distraction doing things with other people? Church or the gym or something?
Em
Posted by ron1953 on October 5, 2004, at 10:46:21
In reply to Re: The head count » ron1953, posted by Emme on October 5, 2004, at 8:44:21
Hello, Emme!
< When I let someone know, they'll come right on out with their own experiences. Turns out so-and-so has panic attacks, so-and-so is trying out Celexa, so and so has spent days immobilized. >
Since I'm pretty open about my condition, I've had similar experiences where people open up about their problems, treatment, whatever. It's as if they were waiting to talk to someone who could understand. Also, I think it seems safer for some to talk to a stranger they'll probably never see again.
< You need to watch something a little more depressing. <joking> Maybe Law & Order. Or The Practice, where every other client pleads insanity >
I do but there are still the commercials. I'm the fastest mute button hitter in the East.
< Do you at least get some distraction doing things with other people? >
Absolutely. I have a men's group weekly and a few of the guys have become personal friends to go out or hang out with. I recently met a woman at a singles dance (I hate 'em) who is becoming a good platonic friend. I also recently got a kitten. She's sweet, affectionate and entertaining. Now I look forward to coming home to "Tiki", who's anxiously awaiting my return.
Ron
Posted by cubic_me on October 5, 2004, at 16:47:47
In reply to The head count, posted by Emme on October 4, 2004, at 23:37:32
I often find that the friends I have also have problems or mental health issues of their own. I don't purposely go looking for them (except on internet message boards!) but it does seem to go like that.
My opinion on it is that firstly there are quite a few people who have suffered from depression etc out there, and secondly that you, as someone in a similar situation to them, are more likely to recognise it in them or to be confided in.
Perhaps we also subconciously seek out those similar to ourselves...mmmm.....
Posted by octopusprime on October 5, 2004, at 21:20:39
In reply to Re: The head count, posted by cubic_me on October 5, 2004, at 16:47:47
cubic_me, your quote about "Perhaps we also subconciously seek out those similar to ourselves." is something i've been thinking a lot about lately.
it's funny but i've run into this a lot in some musical circles. in the last year or so i have met a lot of people taking up music as a new hobby, or being committed to it as a job and/or lifetime passion.
perhaps it is the crowd i run with, but many of these people should be committed! the more i talk to them, the more i get to know them, the more i see it. one guy (with the schizophrenic brother and whose mother is "crazy") acts like a mild case of bipolar II. one lady is codependent (on a never ending string of mental cases, addicts, and abusers). then there are the substance abusers.
the crazy thing is that i took up music as a constructive way to reintegrate myself back in to society, get a new social group, and recover from lingering depression. little did i know that all these people are bonkers!
so i go down to the beach to relax in the little laid back corner of bohemia. and there it is. substance abuse. chronic disability. a guy that was orphaned and is now homeless. another guy whose dad left him and is now looking for love in all the wrong places. so i get off the beach.
so i think back on people i've left behind. my former best friend was bipolar and narcoleptic with drug and eating disorders and the disintegration of our friendship was directly related to mental illness. (his and mine).
my last boyfriend was pretty normal, if not sullen and withdrawn with an inferiority complex (and perhaps latent unexplored homoerotic desires due to formative sexual experiences with transsexual hookers).
a friend i still see regularly (monthly) or so i have distanced myself from a bit in the last couple of years is nuts in some undescribable way. a dear friend of his (and a friend of mine) went missing (they never found his body but there was a suicide note) not too long ago.
and of course my coworkers are also a merry band of social misfits (largely with alcohol and workoholism problems)
i go home and read to try to settle the old mind down a bit. what appeals to me now? nothing but the beat poets and the descendants of beat poets and the generally nuts. brautigan, bukowski, cohen. listen to tom waits. i fall outside the window with confetti in my hair.
i think to myself, hey maybe i am a poet and an artist. maybe i'm in it for the spark. mental illness is the blessing and the curse that comes with an artistic nature and intelligence.
but i know it's bad for me, because i know where it leads:
drugs
drunkenness
indiscreet sexual encounters
floating off into outer space
dirty cluttered apartments
chain smoking
ridiculous expenditures on non-essentialsi need a sane rock to tie me down. i need somebody to call me on my bull$h!+. but at the same time i mock these people, think they're boring old stuffed shirts, and don't return their phone calls. i want somebody that tweaks that spark in me. but i don't want somebody that messes with my head. and those two goals are contradictory.
it must be a sign of my mental illness that i choose the person that tweaks the spark every time.
sigh.
this is a long meandering rant but i think it must be brain chemistry that draws the fruits and nuts together. it just meshes. and i don't know if any amount of drugs or therapy can eradicate the basic human chemistry that is created between two people when they interact.
Posted by Emme on October 5, 2004, at 21:45:58
In reply to Re: The head count, posted by cubic_me on October 5, 2004, at 16:47:47
> My opinion on it is that firstly there are quite a few people who have suffered from depression etc out there, and secondly that you, as someone in a similar situation to them, are more likely to recognise it in them or to be confided in.
>
> Perhaps we also subconciously seek out those similar to ourselves...mmmm.....Well now, I think I can effectively turn that into a nice morale booster for everyone. You see, all of these people I know who have had some mood or anxiety problems.....they are all extremely bright, have a sharp sense of humor, are kind and sociable, and are just very interesting. So....it's clear where this goes folks!
Posted by Emme on October 5, 2004, at 22:00:14
In reply to subconsciously seeking them out, posted by octopusprime on October 5, 2004, at 21:20:39
Sorry OP, I was writing a message to you and got careless and it is gone. So, a couple of quick words before I fall asleep at my desk. I do think it's possible to find people who are creative and have an intellectual spark who are not too unhealthy. You may not have stumbled into the right crowd yet. Okay, too tired to think. I'm making no sense. Sorry - gotta snooze. ciao.
Posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2004, at 6:49:46
In reply to Re: The head count » Emme, posted by ron1953 on October 5, 2004, at 10:46:21
What is it about Law & Order? I watch it ALL the time these days. I hate conflict, so why do I watch a show that is all about conflict? Oh, maybe because they always resolve the conflict neatly in 60 minutes. (Gee, I wonder if I added 15 minutes to my 45 minute therapy sessions that I could wrap up *my* issues in 60 minutes??)
Posted by cubic_me on October 6, 2004, at 7:37:42
In reply to subconsciously seeking them out, posted by octopusprime on October 5, 2004, at 21:20:39
You seem to have had just as many friends and aquaintances with psychological problems as I have! Perhaps it's not us seeking them out, but more them seeking us out (maybe it's because we are special!).
Both my long term boyfriends had been on antidepressants before I met them, and I didn't know until I was well into the relationship. Of my best friends, one has killed herself, one frequently attempts and another is a self-injurer with a drink problem. I didn't find this out about their problems until I had been friends with them for several years, so its not as if I conciously 'chose' them as my friends. But thinking back on it, my group of friends at school were all the misfits that didn't fit into any other category (brainboxes, fashion victims, townies, scaters etc)
I do volunteer work on a telephone helpline (like the samaritans), and when I went on a training weekend with the volunteers it emerged that over half of us had been on psychological drugs - maybe not a good way to meet balenced, well rounded people then!
I can happily say that I have some good friends who have no psychological problems (that I know of, ofcourse)
Posted by ron1953 on October 6, 2004, at 8:09:16
In reply to Re: The head count » ron1953, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2004, at 6:49:46
Falls:
I don't like violence but I watch some of the TV crime drama shows, too. Maybe it's a healthy way to sublimate our own violent tendencies.
Ron
Posted by ron1953 on October 6, 2004, at 8:21:01
In reply to The head count, posted by Emme on October 4, 2004, at 23:37:32
I think this thread supports that we've all been fed a load of excrement from a zillion sources regarding what "normal" is. I don't think it's a coincidence that we meet so many people who are in therapy, taking meds, etc.. We're all trying to live up to the unreasonable expectations of what I think is an abnormal society. Just read a newspaper, a magazine, watch TV commercials. The inmates are running the asylum.
Posted by octopusprime on October 6, 2004, at 9:55:45
In reply to Re: The head count » ron1953, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2004, at 6:49:46
This is the end of the thread.
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