![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 42 to 66 of 67. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 21:28:17
In reply to Re: Reflections, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 21:27:39
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2004, at 2:52:22
In reply to Re: and another thing......, posted by Psychopoppy on January 29, 2004, at 23:59:50
> none of them have been been given a rough time by the (ahem) "plainer" masses.
> But then, none of them were given to making sweeping statements about the attitudes
> or intentions of others either.
>
> gabbix2> if everyone that sees me thinks, "Well, she looks like she has her sh[*]t together, then I can fool myself into thinking that I have my sh[*]t together." ... But, don't think for one second that I'm not jealous of every other person out there who is comfortable enough to just be who they are and admit that they don't have their sh[*]t together and just laugh about it.
>
> Karen_kay> when I hear people say things like..."I think that whole group of people hates me for whatever reason ... then its so screamingly clear that the analysis needs to be turned inwards, as in, into the self.
>
> PsychopoppyI know it can be tricky to have this kind of discussion, and I appreciate everyone's efforts to be sensitive. Still, let me remind everyone not to use language that could offend others or to post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down.
If you have any questions about this or comments about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways to express yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Karen_kay on February 1, 2004, at 7:22:38
In reply to Re: please be civil » gabbix2 » Karen_kay » Psychopoppy, posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2004, at 2:52:22
Sorry Dr. Bob... :( I'll try very hard to be better with my language. Thank you for the warning. Can we still be friends? :)
Posted by Karen_kay on February 1, 2004, at 7:24:59
In reply to Monkey toes? (nm), posted by gardenergirl on January 31, 2004, at 20:49:02
You don't know what monkey toes are??? Very long toes that you can pick things up with. I've noticed that many musicians have them as well. Maybe it's just because musicians have long fingers? That makes it easier to play string instruments.. Look at your toes. I bet you have monkey toes :)
Posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2004, at 11:59:39
In reply to Re: Monkey toes? » gardenergirl, posted by Karen_kay on February 1, 2004, at 7:24:59
No monkey toes. At least I don't think so. But I do have crooked toes, according to my lovely mother. When I was really young she used to tape them together so that my toes didn't stay crooked like my dad's. I don't even want to go there as to what her hang up is with crooked toes. Yikes!
Thanks for the explanation. I'll start practicing picking things up with my toes so that I'll have a corrective emotional experience from this. :)
gg
Posted by EscherDementian on February 2, 2004, at 6:41:22
In reply to Re: Monkey toes?, posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2004, at 11:59:39
i feel like an eavesdropper!
Just finished lurking this *whole* thread, and it is both dearhearted & TOO MUCH FUN....
Even more fun than the above Flylady posts (kitten heels indeed!)
Thanx for the smiles and giggles~ you PBabblers are wonderful....i once or twice tried to get silly on PBsocial and the thread ended so soon after that i thought maybe i'd scared everyone... but not you, dear fearless Gabbix2, eh? (shall we replace the duct tape on our foreheads yet?)
gardenergirl ~ do we have the same mother!!?? My mother had a thing about toes too.
i definitely do NOT have beautiful long monkeytoes, but used to pick things up with my stubby little ones all the time. and point at my mother's back with my big toe after one of her tirades, too.Dinah, do you miss BarbaraCat? Where is she anymore? i'd expect an immediate launch from her 100Monkeys ;)
Mobius
Escher
Posted by Karen_kay on February 2, 2004, at 14:05:40
In reply to Re: Monkey toes?, posted by EscherDementian on February 2, 2004, at 6:41:22
An eavesdropper???? No way Jose!!! The silly posts help even everything out, IMHO anyway, if that counts for anything. I happen to think my opinion is the law. I take it for fact anyway....
Now, my mother never tied or taped my toes together, as they are perfect indeed. I use my toes to pick up my boyfriend's dirty underpants when I'm collecting laundry.... (What is my deal with underpants??? It must be some sort of obsession I have. Maybe I should ask Bubba, but he may be too forthcoming with information abut his underpants, os I try not to talk too much about it... Oh dear, me and underpants. I could talk all day... Back to the original subject.... And if you'd like to know about my underpants, please feel free to ask. I have entire drawers full and I have night time underpants, day time underpants, going out underpants, work underpants and school underpatnts... Oh, dear...) Well, at least that way I don't have to touch his underpants. Yucky, ducky...
Back to monkey toes. I'm sorry your mother taped them together. But, are they straight now? Maybe it worked? Maybe it didn't? My mother was obsessed about bugs and worms.... (Now this is rather embarrassing, but I'll tell since no one knows me, I hope...)
Weeelll, when I was a child, my sisters and I would frequently scratch our rear ends (like most children do, don't they???)and my mother would frequently take us to the doctor claiming we had worms (like we were dogs or something???? She had issues with cleanliness!!!!) Finally the doctor told her, "Look, they are children and they are going to scratch their butts! They are not dogs and they do not have worms. Quit wasting my time and your money bringing them in here for this nonsense." She finally quit. But then I had a friend at school when I was very young (I'd say about 6) who got lice and after that she began checking all of us for lice. She threw away all of our toys (burned some too) and cleaned everything in our house. From the time I was six until the time I was 18 she checked my head for lice. Every single day, she combed my hair with a fine toothed comb. And she still cleaned the house top to bottom, as if we had them. And we never did have them.... She just had issues with cleanliness... I look back on it now and just laugh. At least we always had a clean house to come home to, and my hair was always combed.... Maybe that's why I refuse to comb my hair now???
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2004, at 23:35:08
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Karen_kay on February 1, 2004, at 7:22:38
Posted by Camille Dumont on February 5, 2004, at 10:04:41
In reply to I hear that!! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 18:55:11
I don't know about you guys but I LOOOVE to have monkey toes ... well they're not that long but I grab things with them.
My s.o. is jealous because when I take a bath I can just reach with my foot and open / close the tap without having to stand.
I also have this habbit of using my toes to pick things up. Like if there is a piece of clothing on the floor I'll grab it with my toes, fling it in the air and grab it with my hands.
All you have to do to get them is practice doing things with them and they become stronger / more flexible.
Monkey toes are a lazy person's best friend :P
Posted by Angielala on February 5, 2004, at 10:13:56
In reply to Monkey toes rule!, posted by Camille Dumont on February 5, 2004, at 10:04:41
I never knew there are a name for my foot weirdness! Hahaha. I answer the phone with my foot and I'll often hear on the other line, "Am I being foot-ed right now" hehehe. I also pat my cats with my feet and change the channels with my toes and sometimes even try to out do my best-friend/monkey toe rival by smoking cigarettes with my toes- haha. Yeah, sounds gross, but if you can just imagine me, trying to light, flick and put out a butt with just my feet- you'd be very entertained :)
> I don't know about you guys but I LOOOVE to have monkey toes ... well they're not that long but I grab things with them.
>
> My s.o. is jealous because when I take a bath I can just reach with my foot and open / close the tap without having to stand.
>
> I also have this habbit of using my toes to pick things up. Like if there is a piece of clothing on the floor I'll grab it with my toes, fling it in the air and grab it with my hands.
>
> All you have to do to get them is practice doing things with them and they become stronger / more flexible.
>
> Monkey toes are a lazy person's best friend :P
Posted by Angielala on February 5, 2004, at 10:14:35
In reply to Re: Monkey toes? » gardenergirl, posted by Karen_kay on February 1, 2004, at 7:24:59
Posted by EscherDementian on February 12, 2004, at 5:18:23
In reply to I do I do- I have monkey toes!!! (nm) » Karen_kay, posted by Angielala on February 5, 2004, at 10:14:35
Okayyyyy, who else used to climb up an open doorway or hallway walls at home with one foot and one hand on each side - kinda spread-eagle, 'till you got to the ceiling and then hung there waiting for a sibling to come by so you could scare 'em? Or had races to see who could MonkeyClimb to the top the fastest?
Posted by Karen_kay on February 12, 2004, at 6:01:37
In reply to monkey toes!!!, posted by EscherDementian on February 12, 2004, at 5:18:23
My sister and I used to race! I try to do it every once and a while now but it doesn't work.. why doesn't it work anymore????
Posted by EscherDementian on February 12, 2004, at 7:37:32
In reply to Climbing the walls!! » EscherDementian, posted by Karen_kay on February 12, 2004, at 6:01:37
>> My sister and I used to race! I try to do it every once and a while now but it doesn't work.. why doesn't it work anymore????
>Because.....
We're supposedly *evolved* from Monkeydom?
Or maybe because it's time to join those 99 other monkeys and type a Shakepearean play...
Or something even more enlightened....
But wait! We HAVE!!!We've found ever-more-so creative ways to be CLIMBING THE WALLS, haven't we? ;)
Escher
Posted by capricious on December 20, 2007, at 1:34:05
In reply to Re: Climbing the walls!!, posted by EscherDementian on February 12, 2004, at 7:37:32
hello love, i am interested in the dynamic of this series of messages and have a lot of thoughts.
one thing i think is right in the responses: yes, you are probably not getting jealousy or anger merely from your looks, but from your overall imago in other words your style, your personality, what role you appear to play. i'm not saying there's something wrong with what you're doing, i'm saying ppl perceive there is something wrong -- . at one point i remember you said: "its their problem." you are right that it is their problem, but unfortunately, it is also yours! because you have to go to work every day. if there is something you can alter in your image or personality that will make going to work easier, you might want to consider it. you will also be more aware of the image or role you are projecting to people -- and that is a major part of your communication in the world.
so i come to this because i am interested in the same thing as you - how to deal with women who are jealous. myself, i am tall blonde and thin and pretty. because i had a pretty rough time growing up, moving often with difficult home life, i became extremely socially awkward, shy, depressed. and yes, i had ppl believe that i was aloof. i have many close women friends, i like to go out and party, and i have become less shy, quite happy, and not as awkward, but i still have difficulties with certain women.
i can relate to thinking that one group of women are particularly harsh. in my case, for whatever reason, i find that i make friendships especially easily with black women. on the other hand, small dark haired women with glasses - i know this sounds crazy - tend to really dislike me and i have to work very hard to get past that. which i do work hard, and sometimes i succeed and sometimes fail. i wonder WHY this is, it is very hard to know. however, i suspect it has to do with the general cultural imaginary which typifies us not merely with beauty but with roles. so that for example, there are millions of movies about spoiled blond girls that get guys quite easily but who have no culture and no brains. i have some culture and brains but it hides behind some provincial, awkward mannerisms from my parents and you would never know unless you spoke to me -- and listened. sometimes it is hard for people to hear what they cannot see. there is a scene in john steinbeck's east of eden in which lee, a chinese servant, begins speaking perfect english but then stops when somebody can't understand him - then he remembers to do what he normally does, speak in pidgin english. people expect pidgin english of him so much that they actually can't understand him if he doesn't speak it. this may sound far fetched, but i notice this happening often in life. i also at some point got a pair of glasses that looked like the glasses several african intellectuals wore when they spearheaded attempts to decolonize. this one pair of glasses did more than all my reading of black authors, thought about race in america and elsewhere, or community gardening in mostly black ghettos, ever did to enable the black community to embrace me. as soon as i got those glasses i was in --. then again, maybe it was all my work that enabled me to know the perfect sign to signal.i noticed that you said you keep to yourself. i don't know your reasons for that and i respect that they might be very complex and deep. my basic instinct is to question it however, since even the most flawed, sinful human beings can really help you through some difficult times, not to mention making the fun times more fun. by not traversing the barrier created by their prejudices about you, you are sadly missing out on this warmth. but - i do respect you might have other and super important reasons you don't want to traverse the gap. and if that is so i would recommend you attempt to change your image to something that will be less affronting (NOT less beautiful...). for example, the old feeble man does not have a problem staying alone. there are certain cultural roles that you can tap into that would enable you to be, for example, a "loner" and make others more sympathetic. you can do the most simple gestures - a leather jacket and red lipstick - to tap into a role that others will respect and let you just be.
i don't think this sort of thing is demeaning. i think it is necessary for survival and it is also important to the cultural imaginary. you are creating an image in the minds of the people around you and that image, composed of your appearance, but also your speech and style, is going to mean something to people and they are going to react to that meaning. once you get into it, its quite fun. but first you have to accept the ground rules of the collective unconscious which is often determined by things like hollywood movies that maybe you would rather ignore. but we can't. anyway: i also wanted to say this. you also have inner beauty and it is not being recognized or appreciated by the women in your office, but it can be. i hope you find the way to let your inner beauty shine through (and it might not be the pretty exterior that does it, but for example, something like dinah's quizzical expression - something that comes from deep inside and charms the outside - and you have those things).hmmmmm ... as to my problems.. i think i also have this vague/ cerebralness that drives people who are more down to earth crazy. then i get the dingy blond stereotype. and then weirdest of all i find people most annoyed if i subvert that stereotype by just being myself, and talking about philosophy or art or something i'm interested in. my trouble is that certain girls become extraordinarily angry when guys prefer me to them.. more specifically, i just moved abroad and some of my boyfriend's girl friends are not pleased to meet me. i am trying to figure out how to prevent jealousy from girls by reaching out more or being more actively inviting or self-defining. a lot of times i really like these girls, EXCEPT the bizarre catty behavior they display about men - and towards me - .
anyway sorry this is so long, and i hope it was at all helpful, even if merely to let you know you are not alone in worrying about this sort of thing.
all you other ladies sound wonderful and fun! but i am sad - i think phoenix girls concerns got lost - its true phoenix girl: you are not so chatty and chill, you have a prickly intelligent manner, and you may come off too judgmental - . but i like it. keep going and you will find the style that compliments and protects you in every situation.
Posted by capricious on December 20, 2007, at 1:34:26
In reply to Re: Climbing the walls!!, posted by EscherDementian on February 12, 2004, at 7:37:32
hello love, i am interested in the dynamic of this series of messages and have a lot of thoughts.
one thing i think is right in the responses: yes, you are probably not getting jealousy or anger merely from your looks, but from your overall imago in other words your style, your personality, what role you appear to play. i'm not saying there's something wrong with what you're doing, i'm saying ppl perceive there is something wrong -- . at one point i remember you said: "its their problem." you are right that it is their problem, but unfortunately, it is also yours! because you have to go to work every day. if there is something you can alter in your image or personality that will make going to work easier, you might want to consider it. you will also be more aware of the image or role you are projecting to people -- and that is a major part of your communication in the world.
so i come to this because i am interested in the same thing as you - how to deal with women who are jealous. myself, i am tall blonde and thin and pretty. because i had a pretty rough time growing up, moving often with difficult home life, i became extremely socially awkward, shy, depressed. and yes, i had ppl believe that i was aloof. i have many close women friends, i like to go out and party, and i have become less shy, quite happy, and not as awkward, but i still have difficulties with certain women.
i can relate to thinking that one group of women are particularly harsh. in my case, for whatever reason, i find that i make friendships especially easily with black women. on the other hand, small dark haired women with glasses - i know this sounds crazy - tend to really dislike me and i have to work very hard to get past that. which i do work hard, and sometimes i succeed and sometimes fail. i wonder WHY this is, it is very hard to know. however, i suspect it has to do with the general cultural imaginary which typifies us not merely with beauty but with roles. so that for example, there are millions of movies about spoiled blond girls that get guys quite easily but who have no culture and no brains. i have some culture and brains but it hides behind some provincial, awkward mannerisms from my parents and you would never know unless you spoke to me -- and listened. sometimes it is hard for people to hear what they cannot see. there is a scene in john steinbeck's east of eden in which lee, a chinese servant, begins speaking perfect english but then stops when somebody can't understand him - then he remembers to do what he normally does, speak in pidgin english. people expect pidgin english of him so much that they actually can't understand him if he doesn't speak it. this may sound far fetched, but i notice this happening often in life. i also at some point got a pair of glasses that looked like the glasses several african intellectuals wore when they spearheaded attempts to decolonize. this one pair of glasses did more than all my reading of black authors, thought about race in america and elsewhere, or community gardening in mostly black ghettos, ever did to enable the black community to embrace me. as soon as i got those glasses i was in --. then again, maybe it was all my work that enabled me to know the perfect sign to signal.i noticed that you said you keep to yourself. i don't know your reasons for that and i respect that they might be very complex and deep. my basic instinct is to question it however, since even the most flawed, sinful human beings can really help you through some difficult times, not to mention making the fun times more fun. by not traversing the barrier created by their prejudices about you, you are sadly missing out on this warmth. but - i do respect you might have other and super important reasons you don't want to traverse the gap. and if that is so i would recommend you attempt to change your image to something that will be less affronting (NOT less beautiful...). for example, the old feeble man does not have a problem staying alone. there are certain cultural roles that you can tap into that would enable you to be, for example, a "loner" and make others more sympathetic. you can do the most simple gestures - a leather jacket and red lipstick - to tap into a role that others will respect and let you just be.
i don't think this sort of thing is demeaning. i think it is necessary for survival and it is also important to the cultural imaginary. you are creating an image in the minds of the people around you and that image, composed of your appearance, but also your speech and style, is going to mean something to people and they are going to react to that meaning. once you get into it, its quite fun. but first you have to accept the ground rules of the collective unconscious which is often determined by things like hollywood movies that maybe you would rather ignore. but we can't. anyway: i also wanted to say this. you also have inner beauty and it is not being recognized or appreciated by the women in your office, but it can be. i hope you find the way to let your inner beauty shine through (and it might not be the pretty exterior that does it, but for example, something like dinah's quizzical expression - something that comes from deep inside and charms the outside - and you have those things).hmmmmm ... as to my problems.. i think i also have this vague/ cerebralness that drives people who are more down to earth crazy. then i get the dingy blond stereotype. and then weirdest of all i find people most annoyed if i subvert that stereotype by just being myself, and talking about philosophy or art or something i'm interested in. my trouble is that certain girls become extraordinarily angry when guys prefer me to them.. more specifically, i just moved abroad and some of my boyfriend's girl friends are not pleased to meet me. i am trying to figure out how to prevent jealousy from girls by reaching out more or being more actively inviting or self-defining. a lot of times i really like these girls, EXCEPT the bizarre catty behavior they display about men - and towards me - .
anyway sorry this is so long, and i hope it was at all helpful, even if merely to let you know you are not alone in worrying about this sort of thing.
all you other ladies sound wonderful and fun! but i am sad - i think phoenix girls concerns got lost - its true phoenix girl: you are not so chatty and chill, you have a prickly intelligent manner, and you may come off too judgmental - . but i like it. keep going and you will find the style that compliments and protects you in every situation.
Posted by Leaj on February 7, 2008, at 15:19:44
In reply to Re: Jealous women at work - what to do about them?, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2004, at 19:35:31
You speak for yourself here. There are many women who even though out of high school and college, still express their jealousy toward other women who they view as superior to themselves. It's life, a combo of all personality types. Most importantly, who has enough energy to keep up with the victim type personality. On the other hand let us not victimize those who really do experience the nastiness of jealous women.
Posted by Leaj on February 7, 2008, at 15:28:46
In reply to I would not do that, posted by PhoenixGirl on January 28, 2004, at 16:35:09
I agree with you here. Simply don't have enough time in my day to be that concerned with other people's short-comings...Have enough of my own to deal with. When the nasty behavior belongs to some one else then that person needs to own the solution to her problem not me. Being a beautiful woman inside and out is something to celebrate. Not every woman has physical beauty, not every woman is wealthy, not every woman has a good husband...Easy enough. Celebrate what you have with those who understand this and get away from the rest of those who love to be cruel.
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 23:19:27
In reply to Re: I would not do that, posted by Leaj on February 7, 2008, at 15:28:46
Hi Leaj welcome to babble social it's a great place with great people. Have you also checked to names of the other boards? Need any help getting around just ask. Welcome again Phillipa
Posted by Leaj on February 8, 2008, at 14:34:17
In reply to back 2 the phoenix girl, posted by capricious on December 20, 2007, at 1:34:26
Certainly do not intend to be rude here, nor do I consider myself obtuse, but are you suggesting that, "If one can't out-smart them (the jealous, mendatious type) then one must out-dumb them?" These rudely cruel and jealous types are aware of the implications concerning the comments that you made. Quite frankly, they simply incorporate the stereotypical views of the blonde-bombshell into their hate tactics. You know, we're dumb and cheap. And they enjoy the cruelty of their perversity along with the fact that they are fully aware of their actions. Introspection is the key word here. I'm a blonde beauty - not tall - but petite. I don't know that tall is an important factor when considering beauty. I suppose that I'm simply use to women telling me that they would love to be small like me. I don't get the jealousy treatment from all women. Not because certain women are more aware of the role that the blonde-bombshell plays and are more sympathetic therefore neutral to those stereotypical implications, but because they simply are not self-loathing, mendatious, women who do understand what the term introspection means. Not only do they understand the term but they practice it as well.
Posted by Leaj on February 9, 2008, at 13:38:48
In reply to Re: I would not do that » Leaj, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2008, at 23:19:27
Thank you, Phillipa, for a cordial welcome.
Posted by Leaj on February 9, 2008, at 13:42:36
In reply to Re: Jealous women at work - what to do about them?, posted by gabbix2 on January 29, 2004, at 20:03:32
Oh Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2008, at 13:45:57
In reply to Re: I would not do that, posted by Leaj on February 9, 2008, at 13:38:48
You're welcome glad to meet you. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2008, at 23:26:54
In reply to Re: back 2 the phoenix girl, posted by Leaj on February 8, 2008, at 14:34:17
> I don't get the jealousy treatment from all women. Not because certain women are more aware of the role that the blonde-bombshell plays and are more sympathetic therefore neutral to those stereotypical implications, but because they simply are not self-loathing, mendatious, women who do understand what the term introspection means.
Just a reminder, the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others (such as women who feel jealous) to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
I encourage anyone who has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, to see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Leaj on February 11, 2008, at 11:48:52
In reply to Re: please be civil » Leaj, posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2008, at 23:26:54
Thank you for your response, Dr. Bob. The latter portion of my comment was not referring to women who experience the emotional feelings that define jealousy within ourselves. We have all experienced the feelings that we know and understand to be jealousy. When a woman or anyone acts on their insecurities (and we all have them) in a negative way in order to hurt other people then it is no longer a simple matter of jealousy. This is my belief. There are people in this world who thrive on hurting others. I don't completly understand it but it happens. So my point was that I don't believe that jealousy in and of itself is the main reason why anyone treats others in a cruel and disrespectful manner. There is something else going on there that has nothing to do with the person who is being poorly treated. As women we are taught at a very young age that women can be extremely calculating and hateful toward the object of their envy. The stories of Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, and others are our introduction to the lessons that we learn poorly on the topic of jealousy. I never thought of the mean women in the stories as being jealous. I thought of them as being mendatious and self-loathing characters. And thankfully, I've never met a woman who tried to kill me, starve me, work my fingers to the bones, or deprive me of going to the ball. I've met a lot of women who from time to time experience jealousy (and we all do) then once they get to know me and me them things are fine.
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