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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan J on January 4, 2004, at 14:22:25
I need some objective criticism here.
I've been horribly depressed about 2 years now. The past fall was pretty good, but I've started getting anxiety problems and started feeling sad around the holidays. I think my feeling good in the fall *and* the anxiety come from Wellbutrin.
Anyway, I *have* been bummed around the holidays and my family has noticed.
I was talking to my mother about my dad who procrastinates and I told her I empathize because I cannot for the life of me start a decent project right now.
She asked if I had thought about going off the drugs. I've told her in the past I'm scared to go off WB, because when I went off Paxil, I was great for 2 weeks and then plunged back into depression. But she's made it clear that she does not like drugs for depression in the past.
I got angry at her for a variety of reasons. One, her suggestion meant she doesn't think I'm managing my depression well. Two, it meant she doesn't *get* how painful depression is to me and how terrified I am to go back to that pain. WB seems to keep me out of the darkest of the pit, but it is causing anxiety. So far, I'd rather deal with anxiety than crippling depression. Three, I take that comment as a way to *fix* my problem rather than being *supportive* of my problem.
I told her this. She said I only see the negative but that she realizes depressed people often only see the negative. And she wonders why I cannot see that she's trying to be supportive. I told her that I'm grateful for her support, but the way she does it *hurts* me. She said I shoot down every suggestion she makes. I don't know how to make it clear to her that she cannot solve my depression (although I've told her that scores of times), but that being supportive is great. What I *shoot* down is all her suggestions like eating better, exercising, getting enough rest, getting into a routine, trying to see things more positively.
Like I haven't already *tried* all those, and tried them religiously. Actually, I'm feeling well enough to eat right and exercise, so it's not *that.* I tell her I've already done them, so that's why I discount them when she brings them up.
The next day, I was telling my brother about my short-term memory not being all that it was. He asked why, and I told him I think it's the WB. He told me he *hates* drugs, and that he thinks people *allow* themselves to fall into depression by not doing the right things, like exercising and eating right. I said, so you think I'm *weak?* He said no, he just thinks that it can be fixed without drugs. I told him that if I went off drugs, I'd really want to kill myself. He said *you won't do that, you have too much respect for yourself. Besides, N (my nephew) needs his aunt around while he's growing up. This just further convinced me he doesn't get it. No one kills themselves because they don't respect themselves, at least I don't think so. They do it because the pain is overwhelming and literally unbearable. I think N's grief over losing his aunt would be a lot less painful and definitly shorter than the pain I'm experiencing while depressed.
I just gave up. I told my mom that I don't ever want to talk about my depression with them, because even though I know they mean well, it hurts to hear what they have to say. She reiterated that I was only seeing the negative in what they said. Like it's all my fault.
My brother and mother apparently talked after this, and my brother called me back to apologize. I told him I know he means well, but that I understand my depression a lot better than they do. He said he was sorry and added that he *wasn't pressuring me* but if I ever wanted to, he'd like to sit down with me and discuss other ways to beat depression other than drugs.
Fine. Wasn't in my face. I knew he meant well. But there is still this overwhelming prejudice there against drugs and I swear to G-d meds are the *only* thing that have kept me alive this past year.
So, I ask. Do *you* guys think I'm only seeing the negative here?
Thanks!
Susan
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2004, at 14:30:32
In reply to Is this supportive?, posted by Susan J on January 4, 2004, at 14:22:25
I think it's fine to draw boundaries. My parents were the same way about my therapy and the psych drugs, but especially the therapy. I finally drew boundaries and they no longer discuss those things with me. Mind you, I didn't like the way I did it, which was by overdisclosing, but I did it and I'm not sorry. I think it's great that you were able to draw boundaries.
The down side is that you no longer can use them as a source of support about the matters you draw boundaries on. :( In my case, it wasn't much of a loss.
Posted by helenag on January 4, 2004, at 15:08:44
In reply to Is this supportive?, posted by Susan J on January 4, 2004, at 14:22:25
> I need some objective criticism here.
>
> I've been horribly depressed about 2 years now. The past fall was pretty good, but I've started getting anxiety problems and started feeling sad around the holidays. I think my feeling good in the fall *and* the anxiety come from Wellbutrin.
>
> Anyway, I *have* been bummed around the holidays and my family has noticed.
>
> I was talking to my mother about my dad who procrastinates and I told her I empathize because I cannot for the life of me start a decent project right now.
>
> She asked if I had thought about going off the drugs. I've told her in the past I'm scared to go off WB, because when I went off Paxil, I was great for 2 weeks and then plunged back into depression. But she's made it clear that she does not like drugs for depression in the past.
>
> I got angry at her for a variety of reasons. One, her suggestion meant she doesn't think I'm managing my depression well. Two, it meant she doesn't *get* how painful depression is to me and how terrified I am to go back to that pain. WB seems to keep me out of the darkest of the pit, but it is causing anxiety. So far, I'd rather deal with anxiety than crippling depression. Three, I take that comment as a way to *fix* my problem rather than being *supportive* of my problem.
>
> I told her this. She said I only see the negative but that she realizes depressed people often only see the negative. And she wonders why I cannot see that she's trying to be supportive. I told her that I'm grateful for her support, but the way she does it *hurts* me. She said I shoot down every suggestion she makes. I don't know how to make it clear to her that she cannot solve my depression (although I've told her that scores of times), but that being supportive is great. What I *shoot* down is all her suggestions like eating better, exercising, getting enough rest, getting into a routine, trying to see things more positively.
>
> Like I haven't already *tried* all those, and tried them religiously. Actually, I'm feeling well enough to eat right and exercise, so it's not *that.* I tell her I've already done them, so that's why I discount them when she brings them up.
>
> The next day, I was telling my brother about my short-term memory not being all that it was. He asked why, and I told him I think it's the WB. He told me he *hates* drugs, and that he thinks people *allow* themselves to fall into depression by not doing the right things, like exercising and eating right. I said, so you think I'm *weak?* He said no, he just thinks that it can be fixed without drugs. I told him that if I went off drugs, I'd really want to kill myself. He said *you won't do that, you have too much respect for yourself. Besides, N (my nephew) needs his aunt around while he's growing up. This just further convinced me he doesn't get it. No one kills themselves because they don't respect themselves, at least I don't think so. They do it because the pain is overwhelming and literally unbearable. I think N's grief over losing his aunt would be a lot less painful and definitly shorter than the pain I'm experiencing while depressed.
>
> I just gave up. I told my mom that I don't ever want to talk about my depression with them, because even though I know they mean well, it hurts to hear what they have to say. She reiterated that I was only seeing the negative in what they said. Like it's all my fault.
>
> My brother and mother apparently talked after this, and my brother called me back to apologize. I told him I know he means well, but that I understand my depression a lot better than they do. He said he was sorry and added that he *wasn't pressuring me* but if I ever wanted to, he'd like to sit down with me and discuss other ways to beat depression other than drugs.
>
> Fine. Wasn't in my face. I knew he meant well. But there is still this overwhelming prejudice there against drugs and I swear to G-d meds are the *only* thing that have kept me alive this past year.
>
> So, I ask. Do *you* guys think I'm only seeing the negative here?
>
> Thanks!
>
> SusanDear Susan: Sometimes when we are very sensitive about something, we can overreact to people, especially (most especially) family members. (Don't I know.)
It sounds to me that your brother and mother are trying to be supportive and understanding. Your brother did call you and apologize. Some people do not understand depression. For example, my sister thinks that people can will themselves out of it by doing certain things...sure. nShe lost a friend over that. Apparantly, the friend tired of my sister's "kindly" advice to snap out of it.
I told my sister that people in depression have no energy or desire to much to "snap to." As they improve, perhaps, they can begin to add things to their lives that can help them relieve depression: exercise, etc etc. Who knows if she accepted what I told her. That's her concern.
Sometimes we just have to take what our family is able to give us and leave it at that. Protect ourselves from being hurt by not expecting what they can not give. They love us as they love us. Of course they want us to be happy and well.
Hope this helps you. And hope you feel better soon. Peace, Helen.
Posted by tabitha on January 4, 2004, at 16:36:28
In reply to Is this supportive?, posted by Susan J on January 4, 2004, at 14:22:25
Susan, no it's not the support you want. You want them to support your decision to take meds, and they just don't seem able to do that. There's a grain of truth in what they're saying-- the lifestyle choices like exercise and so forth can help, but as you've seen for yourself, right now you also need the chemical support from meds, and they don't accept that. Perhaps it's a shameful thing for them-- to have a family member on -gasp!- psych meds. There's still so much prejudice and stigma.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 18:19:24
In reply to Is this supportive?, posted by Susan J on January 4, 2004, at 14:22:25
There are still people who don't suffer with depression and don't understand that you can't just excercise and eat your way out of it. Worst of all, those people happen to have family members who suffer with depression. Luckily, I am blessed with a caring family. A family who I call at all hours of the night to tell them they need to be put on Lithium, or whichever drug I am taking at the moment. A family that I call and say they need to enter therapy, to be better parents, sisters, aunts, grandparents to me. I shudder to think of the other phone calls I've made that I don't recall at this point. But I'm working on better communication skills. That, or a ball gag. You could always send this post to your family and say, "See, at least I'm not like her!" (Just trying to put things in perspective and maybe cheer you up a bit :)
You have every right to discuss what aspects of your health you want to with your family. If you feel that they are not being supportive (and I agree that they are not) then by all means it is better not to discuss it then to stop talking alltogether. Obviously they do not suffer, or have never in the past, with depression. You do. And you are doing the right thing to correct the problem. But, it doesn't help matters if the conversation just upsets you by discussing it with them. So, just don't discuss it with them. Do you have other means of support? Do you have friends to speak with? You have babble to post to.
I don't think what you did was wrong in any way. Why cause conflict or anger when there is no need? I'm lucky, my whole family is open to suggestions. They don't mind that I'm on meds. They're just happy that I'm not manic anymore. Now that caused some conflict!
Posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 21:52:59
In reply to Is this supportive?, posted by Susan J on January 4, 2004, at 14:22:25
> I need some objective criticism here.
> So, I ask. Do *you* guys think I'm only seeing the negative here?No, I think you are being realistic. You know how your body reacts, and you are doing what you know will work.
Elle
Posted by leo33 on January 5, 2004, at 23:14:09
In reply to Re: Is this supportive?, posted by tabitha on January 4, 2004, at 16:36:28
Hey Susan,
I can empathize with your situation, I have a similar problem with my parents but they are always pushing me on meds, not off. I try to tell them I get little out of them as they poop out quickly and others side effects are to bothersome. Unfortunately my father is a doctor, and pushes heavily on pharmaceutical drugs and does not believe I have any clue what I'm talking about and that Doctor knows best. The only thing is the drugs are not making me any more functional or helping at all with motivation or a positive outlook. I try to tell them that and i want to try alternative methods but they say herbs or supplements are too dangerous and that the doctor and pharmaceutical companies know best. I also go to therapy but have never really saw any benefits from it but they tell me I never follow thru with it even tho i've done it on and off for years and it did not do anything but drain my pockets of what little money I have. By the way I happen be to be 36 and unfortunately I live with them because of the monetary problems caused by not being able to function in work for more than short periods of time. I guess I'm pretty much screwed and stuck in misery til i die and its ashame because I was not that way growing up. I want so much more out of life, like a wife and kids and work I would enjoy, but without money u can have nothing. Sometimes I wonder why the government just doesn't kill all the people not productive to make room for those that are, rather than let them wallow in misery with no real help or understanding. We'd rather spend it on making war and making rich people richer while others starve and have nothing. Forgive my ramblings I got off on a tangent, anyway I do not think your being negative, trust me you know better then them about your illness.
Take care and good luck Susan
Posted by Emme on January 6, 2004, at 0:50:34
In reply to Is this supportive?, posted by Susan J on January 4, 2004, at 14:22:25
Hi Susan,
>
> Anyway, I *have* been bummed around the holidays and my family has noticed.
>
> I was talking to my mother about my dad who procrastinates and I told her I empathize because I cannot for the life of me start a decent project right now.
>
> She asked if I had thought about going off the drugs. I've told her in the past I'm scared to go off WB, because when I went off Paxil, I was great for 2 weeks and then plunged back into depression. But she's made it clear that she does not like drugs for depression in the past.That is a tough prejudice to overcome.
> I told her this. She said I only see the negative but that she realizes depressed people often only see the negative. And she wonders why I cannot see that she's trying to be supportive. I told her that I'm grateful for her support, but the way she does it *hurts* me. She said I shoot down every suggestion she makes. I don't know how to make it clear to her that she cannot solve my depression (although I've told her that scores of times), but that being supportive is great. What I *shoot* down is all her suggestions like eating better, exercising, getting enough rest, getting into a routine, trying to see things more positively.
You're not being negative! You've got a basic mismatch here. Solutions vs. sympathy modes. What you need is unconditional support - you already *know* what you need to do. You just need to know she cares. As a parent, she's in "fix-it" mode and wants to solve the problems. That makes it feel like your problem is not being taken seriously or understood, or that you're being blamed for not doing the right things. It's upsetting.
>
> They do it because the pain is overwhelming and literally unbearable.Yeah, coping skills swamped by pain.
> I think N's grief over losing his aunt would be a lot less painful and definitly shorter than the pain I'm experiencing while depressed.
People understand the concept of needing painkillers for a broken bone. But society doesn't have a good way to measure psychic pain.
> I just gave up. I told my mom that I don't ever want to talk about my depression with them, because even though I know they mean well, it hurts to hear what they have to say. She reiterated that I was only seeing the negative in what they said. Like it's all my fault.
> He said he was sorry and added that he *wasn't pressuring me* but if I ever wanted to, he'd like to sit down with me and discuss other ways to beat depression other than drugs.
> Fine. Wasn't in my face. I knew he meant well. But there is still this overwhelming prejudice there against drugs and I swear to G-d meds are the *only* thing that have kept me alive this past year.It's nice that they called. But have they ever read any of the fine books describing mood disorders? Maybe they need to read about it in someone else's words in order to have a more complete understanding of what you're dealing with. Can you ask them if they would do that for you?
> So, I ask. Do *you* guys think I'm only seeing the negative here?
No. No. And No. You appreciate their good intentions and give them credit for that. So you can appreciate the good part. You may be able to find some new ways to educate them and it sounds like they care, so maybe they'd eventually try a different view point. You're fighting a tough battle where you shouldn't have to. I have a little of that in my family, though not quite as bad.
Emme
Posted by Susan J on January 6, 2004, at 13:26:05
In reply to Re: Is this supportive? » Susan J, posted by Emme on January 6, 2004, at 0:50:34
I just want to thank all of you for posting to me. I got a lot of information out of them, particularly that it really *is* a support vs. solution type thing. I just want support and they want to fix it, which is a form of support, of course.
I also read a great description of depression for someone who's never experienced it. Imagine being sick in bed for a couple of weeks with the flu and you don't want to eat, don't want to sit up, and just plain feel miserable. *That* is similar to depression. And when I was at my worst, that was so true. Getting out of bed and getting a shower when depressed, just like when I'm physicially sick, is a huge accomplishment and takes about the same amount of energy for me.
Thanks!
Susan
Posted by judy1 on January 8, 2004, at 13:14:43
In reply to Thanks, and a good description, posted by Susan J on January 6, 2004, at 13:26:05
If they really want to learn how to be supportive, family counseling is a wonderful way to go. Are you at all close in physical proximity? If so, perhaps your Mom and brother (try not to make it too many people) could join you in meeting a therapist skilled with family dynamics. It's a great way to educate them, and hearing about depression from an objective specialist will help them understand exactly what you need from them. If you are at a distance, they could see someone on their own who has spoken to your therapist. just some ideas that has helped in my family. take care, judy
Posted by Susan J on January 8, 2004, at 14:02:48
In reply to Re: family and depression » Susan J, posted by judy1 on January 8, 2004, at 13:14:43
Hi, Judy,
> If they really want to learn how to be supportive, family counseling is a wonderful way to go. Are you at all close in physical proximity?
<<Yeah, we live very close to one another. It's something I might try later...right now I feel a bit too raw to face them in therapy. Therapy's tough enough on me as it is, and I can see some painful times ahead if I do it with them.But once this *wound* heals over a bit, I might try and approach them with it.
Thanks!
Susan
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