![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fallsfall on October 27, 2003, at 8:27:03
I go to local support group (not mental health) and have been going there regularly for 2 years. The group just celebrated its 10 anniversary with a dance (which was wonderful until...). After the dance there was an altercation between two long time group members - about how the key for the hall would be returned. Based, though, on the aggressive in-your-face yelling it seemed clear that there was some history behind this anger. There were 5 other people there at the time, including 2 new people who hadn't come before. We tried to get them to settle down, but weren't making much progress. I left with a friend who was triggered by the fight.
Last night was one of our regular meetings. Only the group leader and I showed up (the meetings usually run 6 to 12 people). When it seemed like we were the only ones coming we started cleaning up. One of the fighters came in with a friend. We were surprised to see him, but offered to put the chairs back up and have a meeting. He said that he wasn't staying. Then the other fighter showed up. Fighter1 screamed that he wanted the keys and rushed towards Fighter2. They were nose to nose screaming at each other. The group leader told them to take it outside, one of them told her to go outside. I tried to stand in between them and get them to back up so that they would talk to each other without hitting each other (they were poking and shoving). F1's friend told me to stop shouting. The leader left (that was the right thing for her to do - she was the one triggered the night before). I continued for a couple of minutes to see if they would settle down, which they didn't. I told Fighter2 to clean up and lock up (he was a leader in the past), and I left. I got in my car and moved it away from the door as they came out the door and started rolling on the ground punching. I moved my car and tried to find my friend. We went by later to see if the place had been locked up OK, and there was a police car there. We went in to get the rest of our stuff. The policeman was leaving (he didn't seem interested in talking to us - that was OK with me). Fighter1 was long gone (I'm sure he called the police). I asked Fighter2 to leave because we were closing the building. He told me he wasn't leaving. I talked to the cop before he drove away and told him that Fighter2 wasn't going to leave. The cop was going to come back after talking to Fighter1, so I told the cop that Fighter2 would be waiting outside. I told Fighter2 that he could wait for the cop outside. But he said that he didn't see the cop coming in to kick him out. He wouldn't leave until I told him that the cop was sitting in his car waiting for Fighter2 to leave. Then he left and we locked the building.
Fighter2 did want to talk to me about the fight, but I was so mad that they had taken a group that was supposed to be a refuge and turned it into a place where I (and others) felt unsafe that I refused to talk to him. I was irate that Fighter2 would not leave when asked (and it was also past the time when the meeting was supposed to end - I told him "the meeting is over and we are locking the building"). I am not the group leader, but I am her assistant - I consider us to be a team. As such, since she was so upset by all of this, I felt as though I could speak for her. But both when both fighters were there and later, when just one was there, there was no respect for my authority (which, admittedly, was fairly shaky). The leader and I agreed on what we wanted to happen - she was not able to enter in to the argument enough to assert her authority (and both fighters should have understood why). So, I overstepped my bounds, but I was acting with her permission.
I have always been sheltered and "sweet and innocent". I'm thinking that this may be the first time (in 46 years) that I have been involved with a fight where people really were out of control and wanted to hurt each other. It is also the only time I can remember when a directive from the people in charge has been so blatantly disobeyed.
Both men are going through very difficult times and we have seen the stress in both of them. The group (and the leader and I individually) has tried to support each of them.
Am I naive to think that this should not be happening at a support group? Am I naive to think that people who get together because they share a bond that means that others want to ostracize them should be able to be at least marginally civil to each other during group functions? Am I overreacting?
The leader is going to give her keys to another group member who knows how to lead the group. She and I are not planning to return.
Between what went on this weekend and the s*** that is still continuing (behind very "polite" sentances) here on Babble, my trust in people who say they want to help is about gone.
Posted by Dinah on October 27, 2003, at 9:50:43
In reply to Fist Fights - Long, posted by fallsfall on October 27, 2003, at 8:27:03
Ugh. What an unpleasant situation. I'm sorry you and your friend had to be exposed to it, and I'm glad the police got involved. It could have been even worse if they weren't.
You did nothing wrong, you didn't overstep your boundaries. When someone is involved in assault and battery, they are pretty much renouncing their claim to authority in a given situation. So that pretty much left you. The place needed to be locked up. You locked it up. Don't worry about it *at all*.
Soothe yourself today. You deserve it after all that.
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 27, 2003, at 10:12:27
In reply to Fist Fights - Long, posted by fallsfall on October 27, 2003, at 8:27:03
What an awful thiong that must have been to witness.. I hate physical violence, and it really scares me. It must have been very difficult for you.. BUt well done on stepping in and trying to sort something out between them.
I'm sorry you feel so uncomfortable here. I guess I am to blame. But.. when my trust has been abused, I simply cannot forgive, move on, or trust again. This is a flaw in me, I accept that, and I admit to it quite freely.
I was happy to move on actually, leave everything in the past, but.. I'm so uncomfortable with some posts here, the hipocrasy of some posts here, that it feels like salt is being rubbed into my wounds. Should I sit back and allow this happen, or should I stand up for my own beliefs and values?? I dunno.. at the moment, I am standing up for myself. When I stop doing that I suppose it will be time for me to leave PB and move onto pastures new. I guess soon to pain will be too bad for me to stay.
I just wish I had stayed ignorant, it was so much more simple then.I hope you fnd a good alternative to the group you don't want to return to. And I hope that can help you understand why I can't just role over and play the obedient dog.
Nikki
Posted by fallsfall on October 27, 2003, at 22:02:58
In reply to Re: Fist Fights - Long » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on October 27, 2003, at 9:50:43
Ice cream. A nap (with my soft dog in bed with me). I didn't get my kitchen clean. Went to a Depression support group that was much more supportive.
Feeling a little better.
Thanks
Posted by fallsfall on October 27, 2003, at 22:18:58
In reply to Re: Fist Fights - Long » fallsfall, posted by NikkiT2 on October 27, 2003, at 10:12:27
Yes, Nikki, I do understand your viewpoint. And I honestly don't know how we could do it so that both of us were happy.
I struggle with things like this, because I have always been a black and white person. There is always an answer and always only one correct answer. My life was simpler when I believed that.
I am not good with conflict. In my family growing up if something was wrong, I was told that it was all right. There were no conflicts, so I never learned how to deal with them. I have the same issue with criticism - I guess it is a little different, though. If I were criticized for something that meant that I had done the unthinkable and created a conflict (remember, conflicts are not allowed). So any criticism generates incredible anxiety for me.
I do share your frustration that some posts feel less genuine. What seems to work for me is to see that as a symptom of an illness. I can then avoid the anger (which is a very attractive option to me - I really don't want to do anger), and have more pity instead.
I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT MY APPROACH WILL NOT WORK FOR EVERY ONE (or even anyone else?). And respect your right to need to do what works for you. It *does* help me, though, to hear your motivations and understand that your actions aren't capricious nor are you unaware of their effect on me.
Hopefully as we all become more aware of the effects of our actions a balance can be reached.
Thank you for your rational and insightful post.
Posted by kara lynne on October 28, 2003, at 1:23:46
In reply to Fist Fights - Long, posted by fallsfall on October 27, 2003, at 8:27:03
Good job, well done. There is no protocol for chaos, and you managed it beautifully. Whew. Whatta way to get through group, huh?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.