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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
I didn't get out again today. Beautiful day, but couldn't get moving. But I did do a bit of cleaning. Each time I have an episode of cleaning behavior, it only makes a dent. And each time, I am bewildered at how I let it all get so much worse than the last time I had a cleaning spurt. What is wrong with me that I allow myself to live like this.
Really, I let things go long and filthy. This time, I hadn't touched the dishes in the sink for months! Months I tell you, Months! I don't know what possessed me to actually do something about it yesterday, but I did. I ended up throwing away some moldy mugs and all the flatware!! This isn't the first time I've done that, either. But I did wash the pots out. I soaked them in bleach cleanser first and then scrubbed them. Had to do this in the tub, though, because I only have cold water in the kitchen sink. Another long story. Have to actually get my diswasher installed there.
Last year, when I bought this place, I had the kitchen gutted and put in all new cabinets, sink, appliances, etc. Knocked down a wall or two, new floors, etc. etc. But after all was done and paid up (after holding out the last payment for some other major errors to be fixed), I had the appliances delivered and lo and behold! The dishwasher doesn't fit! Yep, instead of making the 18" cut-out (as all the manufacturer's specs indicate--I checked on line), the contractor made the cut out space only 17 and a half inches!! Who would ever think that a contractor would not make the space the right size!!?? I tried to get him to come back to fix it but he refused, and I decided not to pursue any legal action. So I had someone else (boyfriend of an ex-neighbor) come and look at the problem and to fix it is rather involved because the cabinet wall is embedded with the corian counters,etc, etc. But he said he thinks he might be able to fix it but it wouldn't be a great solution, just adequate.
Anyway, in the meantime, I had the plumbers put in the new disposal and the sink. Knowing that I had a diswhasher planned, they popped out the hole where the dishwasher will connect to drain to the disposal. And, the lead for the hot water to the diswhasher was installed too. So, in order to not have hot water pour out all over the place, I had to turn off the hot water. I also have to keep a bucket under the disposal for overflow if too much water goes down the drain at once.
So, you see--not so conducive to pleasant dish washing, is it?
I need to get the work done. I also need lights and a bunch of other stuff that I ran out of money for! But it has been 10 months already and I'm still living like the trucks just dropped me off here.
Oh, yeah, and I still haven't gotten the washing machine fixed.
Has anyone ever heard the Woody Allen night club monologue about "Mechanical Objects"?
So, with the image of Coral, my inspiration, on my shoulder, cheering me on, I got a bit done today. Finished the dishes and cleaning the sink. Then, I cleared off the cook top surface of the range and cleaned that. Then I even cleaned the oven! It is new and only used a few times, but once when I was baking a sweet potato, it dripped all over the bottom and I never wiped it up so it became encrusted there in a big puddle of burnt sweet potato juice. So, today, I tried out the "auto-clean" function and it worked, not perfectly, but pretty darn good. Then I just wiped away the ashes that were left.
I even put away the pots that I washed. Can you believe it?
Why is all of this so hard for me? Hey, now I'm sounding like one of the characters in The Hours!! Seriously, things that I know aren't difficult, and weren't always so difficult for me, are really hard now. Even though I am not really depressed any more (except maybe past few days in my work-related funk).
I have piles, no not exactly piles, but mounds of papers and other debris everywhere, all mixed together. I need to sort through them and get the papers I need for taxes. I know how to organize, but I can't seem to be able to do it. I come home and drop stuff on the first surface available. And then the mess intensifies.
And it isn't just mess--it's dirt and filth, too. Yuck!!
Will I ever get a handle on this?
Posted by SBOATRN on April 6, 2003, at 19:38:48
In reply to The endless mess, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
.....One step at a time. Do what you can and start small. It's a great step you are taking. Good for you !!!!
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 6, 2003, at 19:46:36
In reply to The endless mess, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
noa,,,
i am a mess....
always was...
now i have many kids to not clean up after...
...the day i was having my old house "viewed"
my dishwasher overflowed...all down into the basement ..destroying the drywall ...
..
when the house sold we had to buy them a brand new dishwasher(was in the deal)
and we couldnt afford one for us for a few years...
ramble ramble
jyl
Posted by coral on April 6, 2003, at 19:59:14
In reply to The endless mess, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
Dear Noa,
"Will I ever get a handle on this?" YES
The problem with cleaning a living area is that you STILL have to live in it while cleaning and, once it's done, it JUST gets dirty again. There's something wrong with that equation, IMHO, but ... it happens.
Bitsy baby steps --- Last night, I finished cleaning the fountain for my office and put it back in my office today. It had been in the middle of the kitchen floor since January.
Noa, I'm really proud of the progress you're making. You've had some rough events (still going on) and it's VERY hard to find the motivation to do re-start (at least for me) the onerous task of cleaning.
Also, you're doing this whilst working. I work, but my WH and I own our own business and our offices are in our home.
I admire your courage. I'm too embarrassed to give a graphic description of our family room, other than to say an archelogist could tell you about the last several months of our lives, just by the family room. (I don't have children so that excuse is out!) Sadly, my husband is a neatnik and this is driving HIM nuts. He's rigorous in his neatness but we've always tackled "cleaning" as a joint venture and it is a mite hard for him when that means dragging me, kicking and screaming, to the cleaning supplies.
Due to several recent project launches, our conference room is a paper disaster area. He warned me today that if there was anything I wanted in a special place in the conference room, I better take care of it in the next day because he was tackling the conference room. He shook his head and said, "We have to tackle the rest of this house." My heart went out to him so I promised I'd do the family room. His stress goes up w/the mess - I'd do anything, including the dreaded cleaning, to help him reduce stress so....... I am now committed.
BTW, thought I was the only one who threw away dishes LOLOLOL
We'll get it done!!!!
(((((((((((Noa))))))))))))
Coral
Posted by shar on April 6, 2003, at 21:24:12
In reply to Re: The endless mess to Noa, posted by coral on April 6, 2003, at 19:59:14
You are both an inspiration to me. I'm not even cleaning the mess.
I had a wonderful experience, a friend from high school is coming for a visit and I was warning her about the house (and saying she was probably the only person in the world I'd feel ok about seeing it as is) and she said I would probably have to mess it up some for her to feel comfortable (two teenage girls, 3 dogs, several cats, a husband and her live at her house). That was such a good thing for her to say!
So, I'm not cleaning.
However, I may be soon because it turns out my WP is tidy. He's totally rearranged the cabinets, the furniture, etc. so it looks like a real home, and my stuff (that he didn't know what to do with) is around the dining table (piles of stuff). I'm getting so I don't even see it anymore. But, I am trying really, really hard to keep the tidy spots tidy. Thank god I have my own room.
Y'all are great role models, keep up the good work!
Shar
Posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 22:00:28
In reply to Re: The endless mess to Noa Coral, posted by shar on April 6, 2003, at 21:24:12
Thanks, Sboatrn, jyl, coral, shar!
Shar, I, too, have one, maybe two friends, not local ones, who I could let see this mess. My very far away friend has actually joked about coming over to help me clean. I would love that. But alas, thousands of miles between us....
I guess it does make me appreciate my own mom. How the heck did she do it? We did have some cleaning help--every 2 weeks, she had a woman clean the place. But it was one of those strange situations where it was actually more work for my mom in some ways. The cleaning lady was developmentally disabled. My mom's friend was an advocate in a special program to employ disabled adults, and had all her friends hire this woman. I guess she was pretty good at some aspects of cleaning, but was rather high maintenance to supervise. But the one thing Anna could do that no one else in the family could do was -- wash the dog! Yep, the dog. When we tried to give him a bath, it was a total disaster, and we'd end up with a huge mess, a wet, soapy dog, and scratches all over us from his trying to escape. It got so he refused to go anywhere near the bathroom. Except when Anna came over. He'd wag his tail, and skip right up to the bathroom and have a grand old time. He loved her so much. My mom would pick her up at the bus stop, and when the car was about a quarter mile away, he would go nuts--he could smell that she was coming!
She talked to him and I think he talked to her--I think she understood him, really.
When us kids were already out of the house, and my mom couldn't care for him any longer, she gave him to Anna, and I think it was bliss for both of them.
But in terms of keeping the house fairly clean and quite organized--I now marvel at how my mom did it. And she was a working mom. My dad, too. They each had their own "territories", divided across traditional sex role lines, of course.
Me? No kids to use as an excuse for the mess. My therapist thinks I'd actually keep it neater if I had the responsibility of kids. Maybe he's right.
Posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 22:01:31
In reply to Re: The endless mess » noa, posted by justyourlaugh on April 6, 2003, at 19:46:36
JYL--they bought the house anyway! Phew.
Posted by BekkaH on April 7, 2003, at 0:01:18
In reply to The endless mess, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
Hi Noa,
I haven't read the entire thread, but I've read your post and some of your past posts about the difficulties of keeping the apartment clean. I have a couple of suggestions that seem to help me. You see, I'm a clutter bug/pack rat. I clip and save zillions of articles, often saving entire newspapers and magazines. I also print out a lot of information from the Internet,so you can just imagine what it is like here. I found that it helps to make very strict rules about the amount of time spent on the Internet. The Internet is a wonderful resource, but it is also a huge time-killer. It's not as passive as television, but I can spend HOURS online, doing non-work-related "research," but I don't have DSL, and it takes forever. Before I know it, the day is over. I'm also trying to set a rule, especially for weekends: No Internet or e-mail reading/responding until I've exercised. Exercise is a wonderful antidepressant, and I find I'm much more productive if I do it earlier in the day. If you don't have cable TV, there isn't much on the networks to distract you from important tasks, like keeping your apartment fit for human habitation, but the Internet offers an inexhaustible supply of distractions. Even if I'm reading something online that doesn't really interest me, I'm deluded into thinking I'm doing something important because I'm a BIT more active while moving and clicking the mouse than I am when I'm sitting comatose in front of the TV. So, I find it helps to set rules as far as the Internet is concerned. It is just too addictive, and meanwhile the dishes pile up, and the dust mites have a party 24/7.
The other thing that helps me is to set tiny goals. For example, I'll say, "Today I'm going to go through just this ONE pile of papers." When the goals are small, they aren't so daunting, and I'm much more likely to actually do them. Then, what often happens is the "nothing succeeds like success" phenomenon. I feel so good about having FINALLY picked up the newspapers or tackled the personal papers that I'm more likely to continue.
Another suggestion I have as far as the kitchen sink is concerned is to buy paper plates, plastic cups and plastic utensils so that, at the very least, the pile in the sink won't get worse. I know the paper goods are environmentally-unfriendly, but, quite frankly, at present, I think it's much more important for you to make your living space a place you want to come home to, a place that is a haven rather than another source of stress that adds to your depression.
I hope this helps a bit.
Bekka
Posted by BekkaH on April 7, 2003, at 0:47:54
In reply to Re: The endless mess - Noa, posted by BekkaH on April 7, 2003, at 0:01:18
I am not on an SSRI now, but in the past, when I was on either Zoloft or Celexa, I had MUCH more difficulty keeping my apartment tidy, and I also had much more difficulty motivating myself to exercise, pay my bills, and do other essential tasks! A few months ago, you posted your current medication regimen, and I think you said were/are on Effexor. I guess that has some SSRI properties, but it is not strictly an SSRI, so perhaps it doesn't cause as much apathy, fatigue and prostration as SSRIs can cause in some people (like me), but I wonder whether some of the difficulties you are having in tackling your apartment may be due to medication side effects?? Celexa was absolutely THE WORST medicine for me as far as apathy is concerned. The problem I have with SSRIs (especially Celexa) is that, not only do I stop doing whatever it is I must do, but I stop CARING about it, and that's what is so devastating. A few years ago, I read an article by a psychiatrist about this particular problem caused by SSRIs (i.e., apathy, amotivational syndrome, etc.). I believe the title of the article was something like, "Lack of appropriate anxiety caused by SSRIs." A certain amount of anxiety is essential to getting things done. Hmmm. . .I'm rambling here and bordering on off-topic, but I just wanted you to consider the POSSIBILITY that your medications MIGHT be making the apartment situation more difficult for you.
Posted by Tabitha on April 7, 2003, at 1:04:34
In reply to The endless mess, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
oh Sister, I hear you. I'm amazed and impressed with your burst of cleaning activity today. What a lot to get done. You know what I managed today? I ran my hand around the edges of one room and picked up all the dustbunnies (mostly my own hair from all the med-induced shedding). Somehow I can't bring myself to get out the actual vacuum, but the remaining dust is less gross than the hair.
The frightening thing is not so much the mess itself but my inability to make myself tackle it on a regular basis. It's like self-imposed helplessness.
I'm freaking over the impending tax deadline. Where are all the necessary piles of paper? I see them but the act of diving in and sorting them gives me anxiety. Last year I filed about 10 months late, the year before that 8 months. This year I promised myself I'd do it on time, but Yikes! the deadline looms.
I have a few clean zones in the house, and the rest is dust-covered piles of stuff. It takes me an hour to get it presentable for guests, and then only with the bedroom doors shut.
Posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 7:50:12
In reply to Re: The endless mess to Noa, posted by coral on April 6, 2003, at 19:59:14
I have meant to ask before. What is your WH? Wicked Husband? Whore Hound? Wart Hog? Wayward Ho? Wiley Heifer? Weasel Head? Wife Husband?
I just can't get it. Help?
beardy : )>
Posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 7:57:55
In reply to The endless mess, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
Noa:
You are making great strides, and I think it's wonderful. It was a sunny day yesterday, indeed, and I was inside, too, grading 13 research papers for about six hours. I WISH I had been able to get as much housework done as you did! So think of it: you're actually a role model for others!
My basement was a wall-to-wall mess. Everything we didn't want was down there with the stuff we wouldn't but couldn't find a place for. And all the toys were in the living room.
So I hired this lady on the internet--Absolutely Organized, in case you're in my area. Before she came, I was motivated enough to start, but she had excellent ideas. She even brings storage containers if you need them. I think the first hour was $50, the first day was--can't remember--$150? We got enough done that first day to finish it all, have our walls built, our floors put in. Now I have a mosaic workshop, and my daughter has a playroom. And it's still clean and organized, thanks to this woman, who was only there once. The lessons about cleaning, though pretty obvious, were lasting.
Maybe you can consider that?
Reminds me. I have to call and have my dishwasher repaired. We only use it to drain the sink-washed dishes, but it has to be run once in awhile, or it starts to stink!
beardy : )>
Posted by coral on April 7, 2003, at 8:01:56
In reply to I am slow. » coral, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 7:50:12
Dear Beardy,
LOL WH stands for Wonderful Husband!!!
It's a reference that comes from the days of Lumptonia.
Coral
Posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 8:10:49
In reply to Re: I am slow., posted by coral on April 7, 2003, at 8:01:56
But LOL back. This was pretty funny. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20001031/msgs/2113.html
I guess I should call mine a WH, too, for being so supportive. But most of the time I refer to him as MA (My A**hole)!
(Really, honey, I love you bunches. It's all in fun.)
beardy : )>
Posted by WorryGirl on April 7, 2003, at 9:55:22
In reply to The endless mess, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
Knowing there are so many others with dirty or cluttered houses out there comforts me.
When I decide to clean it's usually one particular thing that consumes me for almost the entire day. Like yesterday I actually got down on my hands and knees and scrubbed every tile on our outdoor foyer. Everything else was left undone.I don't like company because making the place look presentable keeps me up for hours and hours, and by that time I'm exhausted and miserable and the place still doesn't meet my standards.
Before I had kids....
My house was immaculate.
There were no piles (maybe a few in the bedroom)
I vacuumed daily, etc. etc. etc.Now...
My friend stopped leaving her 2 year old at my house for an hour a week and never said why - could it be that my sorry attempts at making my place presentable failed? Her place is always immaculate. She is immaculate. Something I'll never be, at least til the kids get older.
I hate that. I'm a perfectionist at heart.I'm lucky if I dust once every two months.
If I vacuum once a week.
There are piles everywhere.
Continuous crumbs all over the floor
I'm good friends with the pest control guy.
I swear I'm not a lazy person.
How did this happen?
Posted by judy1 on April 7, 2003, at 12:27:17
In reply to Re: The endless mess » noa, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 7:57:55
Noa,
I really admire how much you've already done. I'm a HGTV junkie and marvel at what people on that week-end warrior show get accomplished. i thought bearded lady's suggestion about hiring an organizer was excellent, i know several people who have used them with great success. and i absolutely agree with your therapist's observation that kids keep you organized- it's true out of necessity. best of luck-judy
Posted by WorryGirl on April 7, 2003, at 14:00:40
In reply to Re: The endless mess, posted by judy1 on April 7, 2003, at 12:27:17
>i thought bearded lady's suggestion about hiring an organizer was excellent, i know several people who have used them with great success. and i absolutely agree with your therapist's observation that kids keep you organized- it's true out of necessity. best of luck-judy
Good advice -
Having kids HAS forced me to get rid of a lot of stuff out of necessity. As for the organization, I need lots and lots of continuous time for that, then maybe I can at least maintain my household. I guess that's where the professional organizer will come in handy.
Posted by coral on April 7, 2003, at 14:29:54
In reply to The endless mess, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 19:21:15
One of my favorite books for organizing is "Clutter's Last Stand" Sorry, I don't recall the author. It did WONDERS for me.
Imagine what I was like BEFORE I read it LOL :::::shuddering:::: Be afraid. Be very afraid. :)
Coral
Posted by coral on April 7, 2003, at 14:54:03
In reply to Re: The endless mess -- a book, posted by coral on April 7, 2003, at 14:29:54
Hrmph! Reading the headings, it appears that I have been identified as being slow. And, in fact, it seems that I even identified myself as being slow. I must stop doing that!
Yes, I'm slow at cleaning - that should be S L O W
Yes, I'm slow at math. 2 + 2 ALWAYS equals 4? How interesting.
Yes, I'm slow at finances. "I can't be out of money because I'm not out of checks!"
Wait a minute...this line of reasoning isn't helping my cause! Guess I was slow to catch on to that! LOL
Coral
Posted by Tabitha on April 7, 2003, at 14:59:03
In reply to Re: The endless mess -- a book, posted by coral on April 7, 2003, at 14:29:54
I loved that book. Mind you, I'd mostly just lie about on the sofa, in the midst of all the mess, and get vaguely inspired about throwing stuff out, rather than actually doing anything.. but I spent many hours of pleasant reverie reading it nonetheless.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 7, 2003, at 15:02:30
In reply to Re: The endless mess to Noa Coral, posted by noa on April 6, 2003, at 22:00:28
> I guess it does make me appreciate my own mom. How the heck did she do it? We did have some cleaning help--every 2 weeks, she had a woman clean the place. But it was one of those strange situations where it was actually more work for my mom in some ways. The cleaning lady was developmentally disabled. My mom's friend was an advocate in a special program to employ disabled adults, and had all her friends hire this woman.
This reminded me of my experience of hiring a cleaning person last spring when my 2nd child was only a few months old. But it, too, ended up being more work because for one, I almost spent more time making my place look presentable than she did cleaning it. I left the heavy-duty bathroom cleaning and floors to her, but boy was I paranoid about my clutter all over the place!
Than, unfortunately, small items began disappearing. At first, I thought, well, if she needs it that badly she can have it. But when half of my baby's outfits had disappeared I let her go. Besides, after several cleaning sessions she started using some kind of stinky cleaner that actually made the bathroom smell worse.I don't know how my mother did it either. She always kept our house spotless. She didn't do much else, though, including really supervising us kids. Back then we played outdoors all day with her periodically watching from the window. These days you would be reported for child neglect/negligence for doing that. My mother wasn't the only one - all of my friends played outside while their mothers stayed inside and cooked and cleaned.
It's always fun trying to cook from scratch with 2 fussy toddlers at your feet. Thank God for Homestyle Bake meals and deli desserts!
Posted by noa on April 7, 2003, at 20:18:46
In reply to Re: The endless mess - Noa, posted by BekkaH on April 7, 2003, at 0:01:18
Hi, Bekka, thanks for the suggestions. They make sense. I "know" these things, but have a hard time putting them into action. It is so great that you've been successful doing that. But it helps to hear it from someone else, to remind me.
BTW, I've been using paper and plastic a lot in recent months. Yes, I feel bad about it in terms of environment, but it is the only way for me to cope sometimes.
Thanks for the encouragment.
Posted by noa on April 7, 2003, at 20:20:37
In reply to P.S. One more thought - Noa, posted by BekkaH on April 7, 2003, at 0:47:54
The previous message was for you, too, Bekka.
Yes, I've thought about this and asked my pdoc. That is one reason he and I are planning to lower my effexor dose a bit, now that the fish oil seems to be helping a lot.
Posted by noa on April 7, 2003, at 20:23:34
In reply to Re: The endless mess » noa, posted by Tabitha on April 7, 2003, at 1:04:34
>>You know what I managed today? I ran my hand around the edges of one room and picked up all the dustbunnies (mostly my own hair from all the med-induced shedding).
Hey, don't minimize that! That is what I haven't done yet in my apt.! What is it they say about bunnies multiplying? Does it apply to dust bunnies? Yes, and I am always shocked by how much of my own hair there is all over the place!! I've thought that to be med related too!
Posted by noa on April 7, 2003, at 20:26:05
In reply to Re: The endless mess » noa, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 7:57:55
Wow, a personal organizer professional--that actually sounds great! Only right now it will have to wait until after I pay for the washing machine and the diswasher! Thanks.
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