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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daizy on February 18, 2003, at 9:36:06
I havnt been out of the house now for nearly two weeks. Today my mother tried to get me to go to the gym with her and I got into the car but chickened out at the last minute. She makes me feel very guilty and says if I dont try and help myself I will never get better, and no pill is ever going to make me want to do things. Every time it comes to me going out of the house I get a guit trip off her when I cant do it, but I cant find the words to try and explain how it makes me feel. Im not very good with words, and was wondering how people here have explained their feelings or Illness to family or friends?
Posted by shar on February 18, 2003, at 11:48:49
In reply to My problem, posted by daizy on February 18, 2003, at 9:36:06
That is SUCH a problem, because there is already so much baggage in place, it makes it hard for family to "hear" what's being said. My family cannot understand my depression at all, tho' they have given up the 'snap out of it' recommendations. Even the few who have dealt with depression (personally or through a friend or spouse), even clinical depression, do not understand.
I spent about two years telling folks it was chemical, it was chemical, it was chemical, it was chemical, it was chemical...an imbalance in the the chemicals in my brain. I had slightly better luck with them understanding a medical model than just "depression" which they equate with a choice (your attitude determines your latitude).
So, I talked about how it was similar to diabetes, or to other systemic diseases that couldn't be fixed by surgery or by radiation treatment or a course of meds like penicillin. But, that meds could help if the right ones are found. And, the meds have to be taken as for a chronic condition, like cholesteral meds, etc.
I said things like this about 1,000 or more times.
They don't understand, they probably never will, but they now ACCEPT the situation as reality.
If there is a book you can get them to read (if they really want to 'get it') that could help, because it's not you telling them something. Or, if they have a friend who could talk to them. Part of the problem in my family is that they ARE family.
The only part you have real control over is how you respond to their pressure. Wouldn't it be nice if instead of guilting you, someone showed compassion? Or, spent some time with you in a way that would be comfortable for you?
Feeling bad because they don't understand, or even worse, feeling shame, is a dead end road. It won't help you (you are most important), and it doesn't move them toward any greater understanding either (by repeating the same pattern over and over). I got pretty direct with my family (not nasty, but just not taking too much from them, letting them know if it was a choice I sure wouldn't choose depression, and for them not to expect me to change, to just expect me to be how I was, to trust that I was doing all I could, etc).
It was so interesting that about 6 months ago, my mom said in passing that both of my dad's parents were severely depressed, and my dad had depression problems, too. Gee, wouldn't that have been nice to know 15 years ago...
Well, this is probably 10 times too long. Good luck!
Shar
Posted by Miller on February 18, 2003, at 11:48:59
In reply to My problem, posted by daizy on February 18, 2003, at 9:36:06
Daizy,
Good issue!!! I have not been able to explain my illness to my family. My husband was FINALLY able to understand (technically) depression after his aunt explained it to him. I also had him speak with two psychologists. After my last suicide attempt he actually read the depression information I brought home from the hospital. So, I guess, in my case, I had to use every resource I could find!!
There is lots of information on the net regarding specific illnesses. I remember the Paxil web site (I think) also had a page to print out for family members.
Let us know how it goes. It is a struggle. Remember, you have to take care of yourself first. Don't do something you know you aren't ready for. We will support your decisions here.
-Miller
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 18, 2003, at 12:52:24
In reply to Re: My problem » daizy, posted by Miller on February 18, 2003, at 11:48:59
daizy,
my family want to believe i have a thyroid problem.
the specialist they ask my if i see is my pdoc.
my mother hated me when i was a kid(17)because i was picked up by the police and brought to the er and her friend knew.
she never came to see me ..except to take back her fathers ring i had around my neck on a chain.
getting off track here...sorry been a **** day.
???jyl
Posted by daizy on February 18, 2003, at 16:32:49
In reply to Explaining to Family » daizy, posted by shar on February 18, 2003, at 11:48:49
> That is SUCH a problem, because there is already so much baggage in place, it makes it hard for family to "hear" what's being said. My family cannot understand my depression at all, tho' they have given up the 'snap out of it' recommendations. Even the few who have dealt with depression (personally or through a friend or spouse), even clinical depression, do not understand.
>
> I spent about two years telling folks it was chemical, it was chemical, it was chemical, it was chemical, it was chemical...an imbalance in the the chemicals in my brain. I had slightly better luck with them understanding a medical model than just "depression" which they equate with a choice (your attitude determines your latitude).
>
> So, I talked about how it was similar to diabetes, or to other systemic diseases that couldn't be fixed by surgery or by radiation treatment or a course of meds like penicillin. But, that meds could help if the right ones are found. And, the meds have to be taken as for a chronic condition, like cholesteral meds, etc.
>
> I said things like this about 1,000 or more times.
>
> They don't understand, they probably never will, but they now ACCEPT the situation as reality.
>
> If there is a book you can get them to read (if they really want to 'get it') that could help, because it's not you telling them something. Or, if they have a friend who could talk to them. Part of the problem in my family is that they ARE family.
>
> The only part you have real control over is how you respond to their pressure. Wouldn't it be nice if instead of guilting you, someone showed compassion? Or, spent some time with you in a way that would be comfortable for you?
>
> Feeling bad because they don't understand, or even worse, feeling shame, is a dead end road. It won't help you (you are most important), and it doesn't move them toward any greater understanding either (by repeating the same pattern over and over). I got pretty direct with my family (not nasty, but just not taking too much from them, letting them know if it was a choice I sure wouldn't choose depression, and for them not to expect me to change, to just expect me to be how I was, to trust that I was doing all I could, etc).
>
> It was so interesting that about 6 months ago, my mom said in passing that both of my dad's parents were severely depressed, and my dad had depression problems, too. Gee, wouldn't that have been nice to know 15 years ago...
>
> Well, this is probably 10 times too long. Good luck!
>
> SharIt wasnt ten times too long :-) Thanx for your insight!
Family, they just dont get it at all do they!!!
Ive given up on the Idea of sitting down and discussing it with her now. I just thought she might like to know why i cant be normal, but its just too much hassle for me today!
Posted by daizy on February 18, 2003, at 16:44:29
In reply to Re: My problem » daizy, posted by Miller on February 18, 2003, at 11:48:59
> Daizy,
>
> Good issue!!! I have not been able to explain my illness to my family. My husband was FINALLY able to understand (technically) depression after his aunt explained it to him. I also had him speak with two psychologists. After my last suicide attempt he actually read the depression information I brought home from the hospital. So, I guess, in my case, I had to use every resource I could find!!
>
> There is lots of information on the net regarding specific illnesses. I remember the Paxil web site (I think) also had a page to print out for family members.
>
> Let us know how it goes. It is a struggle. Remember, you have to take care of yourself first. Don't do something you know you aren't ready for. We will support your decisions here.
>
> -Miller
>Thanx for your posts. I have thought of giving my mother a book or info off the net, but Im kinda in two minds about it.
Because I havnt had a proper diagnosis from the doctor, my mother doesnt seem to think I have anything wrong with me, yet she knows Im on AD's. So if I take her info thats about depression, or whatver, I know what she'll say, "Dont be silly we all feel a bit like that at times but you havnt got that" I can hear her saying it! I dont think she likes to admit that I have a problem, I suppose i didnt at first, but now I wish i did have a diagnosis. Im just not ready for another row with her yet!
Posted by daizy on February 18, 2003, at 16:48:23
In reply to Re: My problem, posted by justyourlaugh on February 18, 2003, at 12:52:24
> daizy,
> my family want to believe i have a thyroid problem.
> the specialist they ask my if i see is my pdoc.
> my mother hated me when i was a kid(17)because i was picked up by the police and brought to the er and her friend knew.
> she never came to see me ..except to take back her fathers ring i had around my neck on a chain.
> getting off track here...sorry been a **** day.
> ???jylHey! dont be sorry, im having one of those days too! What is it with mothers eh? I hope Im not like mine if I have kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by jodie on February 18, 2003, at 18:51:36
In reply to My problem, posted by daizy on February 18, 2003, at 9:36:06
When you find the answer, please let me know.
Thanks,
Jodie
Posted by coral on February 18, 2003, at 19:17:54
In reply to Explaining to Family » daizy, posted by shar on February 18, 2003, at 11:48:49
Dear Shar,
Congrats. on the patience.
When I was in the depths of hell battling cellar demons, one family member's ever-so-helpful's comment was "Well, I just don't have time to be depressed."
Hissssssssssssssss
Coral
Posted by Phil on February 18, 2003, at 22:02:59
In reply to My problem, posted by daizy on February 18, 2003, at 9:36:06
Top Stories
FDA Approves New Use For Zoloft
By Jamie Talan
STAFF WRITERFebruary 18, 2003
Feeling so uncomfortable around other people, one 55-year-old accountant routinely waited until 3 a.m. to take out the garbage to avoid running into neighbors. At work, the social interactions were so painful that he quit.He's one of millions of Americans with social anxiety disorder, also known as social phobia. He's been a volunteer in a nationwide study to test the effectiveness of Zoloft, a popular antidepressant that is now being used for a variety of behavioral disorders. For him, that pill helps him navigate the world every day. He has not only returned to work, but now lunches with his colleagues. And he now takes the garbage to the curb at a more civilized hour, without hearing the thump, thump, thump of his heart.
Last week, the Food and Drug Administration approved Zoloft, a so-called selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitor, or SSRI, for the additional use of treating social phobia.
Ever since the development of the SSRIs - Eli Lilly's Prozac was the first on the scene in 1987 - pharmaceutical companies have been testing their powers against a range of behavioral conditions. These medicines are now prescribed for obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, panic and premenstrual dysphoric disorder. In 1999, the FDA approved the antidepressant Paxil for the short-term treatment of social anxiety disorder. Last week, Pfizer's Zoloft became the first medicine for the long-term treatment of social phobia.
In the latest studies of social phobia, scientists recruited 600 patients and first tested the medicine's effect during a 12-week trial. About 55 percent had significant relief from their anxiety, said Dr. Michael Liebowitz, director of the anxiety disorders clinic at the New York State Psychiatric Institute in Manhattan, who was a principal investigator in the study. Then, about 100 patients who improved while taking the medicine were entered into a longer study, and half received the medicine and the others took a placebo. Virtually all of those on the medicine remained free of symptoms during the 20-week study. About 35 percent of those on placebo returned to their previous social anxiety-ridden state.
Scientists don't really understand this disorder - long thought to be psychological - but the fact that medicines that regulate serotonin work to alleviate such powerful fears suggests a possible biological link. Social phobics have many of the symptoms that are seen in people with panic attacks - the racing heart, the sweaty palms, shortness of breath, increased blood pressure and light-headedness - but it is limited to times when they feel they are in a stressful social situation. For many, it is public speaking, but others can be immobilized by a one-on-one encounter, as well. Liebowitz and his colleagues studied the biological underpinnings of social phobia by asking patients to stand before a group and talk while their blood pressure, heart rate and blood levels of key chemicals were monitored. People with social phobia had higher levels of adrenaline than normal volunteers who completed the same experiment.
For years, beta blockers - generally used to increase heart blood flow - have been used successfully on occasions when people with social phobia had to perform in public. Now SSRIs have proven safe and effective. These drugs have fewer side effects, and people with social phobia would take beta blockers only occasionally.
Liebowitz said that another patient in the study had left his job and family in search for answers. He wound up at Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center's New York State Psychiatric Institute, and the Zoloft helped ease the social tensions in his life. He's now returned to his life, Liebowitz said.
Zoloft's effectiveness supports the theory that biology is at work. And probably more than just serotonin and adrenaline is involved in social phobia, scientists agree. Experiments conducted on men and monkeys show that another brain chemical called the D2 dopamine receptor is depleted in a certain area of the brain. Other animal studies have suggested that altering the environment of the animal changes the D2 receptor activity in the brain. This is good news, scientists say. Because it means the brain can actually reorganize itself in response to a more positive experience. "Once a person feels better, they can build up confidence to do other things," Liebowitz added.
He and others have come to believe that roughly 4 percent of the population may suffer from social phobia. Many of these people are born with shy temperaments. Shyness per se doesn't mean that a person will develop social phobia, but it most certainly increases one's risk. Liebowitz suspects that many people don't even know they suffer from this condition, or that there is medicine available that can help. For some people, cognitive behavioral strategies and relaxation techniques also help them through anxious social situations. Columbia researchers are now testing the benefits of a combination of behavioral therapy and medicine.
Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.
Posted by noa on February 21, 2003, at 8:23:02
In reply to A solution. I would hope. » daizy, posted by Phil on February 18, 2003, at 22:02:59
I noticed the cover story of Newsweek is on Anxiety and the Brain. Didn't read it yet. Just saw it out of the corner of my eye passing a news stand at the airport.
Posted by Craig on February 22, 2003, at 3:05:27
In reply to Re: A solution. I would hope., posted by noa on February 21, 2003, at 8:23:02
Here http://www.msnbc.com/news/873610.asp is the link to the online version of Newsweek’s February 24 issue on Anxiety and Your Brain.
************************
> I noticed the cover story of Newsweek is on Anxiety and the Brain. Didn't read it yet. Just saw it out of the corner of my eye passing a news stand at the airport.
Posted by daizy on February 22, 2003, at 6:36:00
In reply to Newsweek - Anxiety and Your Brain, posted by Craig on February 22, 2003, at 3:05:27
> Here http://www.msnbc.com/news/873610.asp is the link to the online version of Newsweek’s February 24 issue on Anxiety and Your Brain.
>
> ************************
> > I noticed the cover story of Newsweek is on Anxiety and the Brain. Didn't read it yet. Just saw it out of the corner of my eye passing a news stand at the airport.
>
>Looks like I need to sit down and have a good old chat with my amygdala (think thats how its spelt)!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That article was quite scary for a while there, also knowing that my dad has heart problems due to stress doent seem to calm me!
I think I will definitely have to get some yoga classes booked!
Posted by noa on February 22, 2003, at 11:10:42
In reply to Re: Good Article, Do read!, posted by daizy on February 22, 2003, at 6:36:00
A few years ago, I read "Mapping the Mind" which really helped me visualize the role of the amygdala in stress response and anxiety. Ever since that, I often picture my amygdala flashing like a big ole inflamed neon sign when I get any kind of big anxious feelings, or sudden feelings of hurt (big hurt--you know when you take things personally), or being flooded by strong feelings.
It feels to me like the amygdala goes into very high gear, and this cuts off the connection with my logical cortical brain parts. I am ALL feeling at that point.
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