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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 9:40:47
In reply to Re: Sex Partners: Who Needs Them?/Dreamerz/Tabitha, posted by jay on October 30, 2002, at 4:34:43
The beauty of it is, once you embrace being partner-free, you never have to feel deprived again!
Posted by Ted on October 30, 2002, at 10:58:08
In reply to Sex Partners: Who Needs Them?, posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 2:50:28
Tabby,
I have to agree with Jay. (Maybe not his prose, but at least his concept).
It doesn't matter what sexual orientation you choose, having a partner you care about is *much* more pleasurable and satifying that going the "nonsexual" route.
Most of all, though, is to not feel rushed to have a partner. Take your time; explore; enjoy yourself; understand *Tabby's* needs.
Ted
Posted by jay on October 30, 2002, at 15:03:45
In reply to ..control yourself Jay : ) (nm), posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 30, 2002, at 8:46:55
Ladies, I wasn't trying (or saying) anything that was 'gross'. Like, it wasn't 'pornographic'...as I tried hard to make it an artful and beautifuly romantic description. I really, really hate the whole 'dirty' notion behind sex, and I think that is what has ruined it for most people. No need to use 'vulgar' words that are just slang. I think in it's purest, honest form, the whole sexual act is an amazing thing we are so deeply blessed to have. I hope that clears that up. :-) I am not in the least embarassed by anything sexual between consenting adults, as long as the 'proper' terminology is used.Jay
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on October 30, 2002, at 18:26:21
In reply to Sex Partners: Who Needs Them?, posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 2:50:28
> Am I a freak? I don't care! If there aren't more like me, there should be. I'm proud to be... Partner-Free!
--------------------------Maybe you just need to find the right partner? I'm fairly atypical when it comes to sex as well. Most women don't interest me. I need intelligence, and it's hard to find. I'm also not the most passionate person, physically. Kind of reserved; but I do enjoy sex with the right person. I can understand if you feel too pressured or anxious (or just disinterested) around the men you meet. Our society places a huge emphasis on sex, which takes away from the simpler aspects of touch, such as hugging, cuddling, kisses on the jaw, etc. If I had to choose between pure sex or clothed intimacy for the rest of my life, I'd go with the latter. As far as actual orgasmic sex goes, sure, it's easier to reach climax by yourself, but a lot of the enjoyment is being there to watch the *other* person enjoying themselves. You don't have to have sex, either. There's a huge gray area of activities that you can do that might be more approachable and relaxing for you. Anyway. Idk. If you can't get excited about sex in some fashion, what's left? Food? Drugs?
Posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 30, 2002, at 20:05:20
In reply to Sex Partners: Who Needs Them?, posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 2:50:28
I've been married for 11 years and I want to be non sexual (that was the word right??)
Tabitha..your description is just what I want to be! Everything you said..no more of just pleasing him so I can be left alone..maybe its all these "drugs" in my body..I know I wasn't always like this (hell, I have 3 kids!) but for now it would work.
A very kamikazi ladybug
Posted by Dreamerz on October 30, 2002, at 21:11:51
In reply to I honestly hate to say it but... » Tabßitha, posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 30, 2002, at 20:05:20
just ain't gonna happen--finding compatible partner
Singledom City , a serene place.
Posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 21:33:53
In reply to I honestly hate to say it but... » Tabßitha, posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 30, 2002, at 20:05:20
I'll count myself lucky I came to this realization while unmarried. Your hubby might not be so happy if you emigrate to my nation of the Sexual Non-Partnered.
Posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 21:38:05
In reply to Re: I ' ve given up..., posted by Dreamerz on October 30, 2002, at 21:11:51
Me too, my sweet. Not only can I not find a compatible partner, I almost never even spot a man who's genuinely attractive to me.
Posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 22:01:03
In reply to Re: Sex Partners: Who Needs Them? » Tabßitha, posted by Eddie Sylvano on October 30, 2002, at 18:26:21
I'm just tired of looking for the right partner. I'm 39 years old and have almost never enjoyed sex with a partner, but have always enjoyed solo sex. It's time to put my energy where there's some payoff, instead of continuing to hope things will change. I find giving up hope to be liberating.
If it's really all about touching and cuddling, then why bother with sex at all? Lately I've even become non-cuddly. I used to be cuddly, but now it seems like it was just my emotional neediness manifesting itself physically.
As for the pleasure of watching each other, it sounds nice, but I don't really like to watch or be watched. In the past I had lovers who told me they just wanted to please me, but actually I felt like they wanted me to put on a show for them to watch. I swear their expectations were ruined by watching fake porn movies where the womem scream and writhe at the slightest touch. It was just an extra burden to me to have to fake more external response than was really natural, so my lover could feel good about "pleasing me". My real response was never good enough for them.
I think there are plenty of ways to feel sexual without a partner anyway, through reading, fantasy, dressing up, and all kinds of sensual self-care. Besides, I'm not averse to flirting. To me that's the fun part, and I don't mean leading someone on, I just mean the little energy exchanges, eye contact, banter, and so forth.
See? This whole partner notion just doesn't work for me.
Posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on October 31, 2002, at 1:33:16
In reply to Re: Sex Partners: Who Needs Them? » Tabßitha, posted by Eddie Sylvano on October 30, 2002, at 18:26:21
It's late, and I'm having one of those "oh no, my post sounds wrong" moments. I didn't mean to come off like I was disputing all the points that you made. I'm just trying to understand why all the stuff most people suggest doesn't seem to work for me, so I used your ideas as examples. I really did appreciate your post.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on October 31, 2002, at 9:42:36
In reply to Re: P.S.... » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on October 31, 2002, at 1:33:16
> I'm just trying to understand why all the stuff most people suggest doesn't seem to work for me, so I used your ideas as examples. I really did appreciate your post.
----------------------------No offense taken. I feel like I can relate to your complaints about the process. It seems like every relationship I'm in, my partner is dissapointed in my lower libido, takes it as proof that I don't love them, and things degrade. Should I have to deferr to my girlfriend's desires, and please her demands above my own? It's a tough call for me to make. The unique aspect of pairing off with people is that you're intimate with them. Something's expected there. My only complaint is what? Does it have to be constant, grunting sex, or can it be more relaxed nuzzling that sometimes builds to more? My first girlfriend wanted sex all day, every day, and I got pretty tired of it after a couple weeks. It became a chore (and lead to an unwanted pregnancy). To make things worse for me, I tend to not want contact with my girlfriend if she's being petty or critical, which leads to more criticism, and a vicious cycle, because the only thing that proves love is sex. Agh.
For me, as a guy, the thing is I feel different for being so. I'm supposed to want it all the time, and turn my head at every set of cleavage that bounces past me. It makes me feel like I'm defective or something (which wasn't a feeling discouraged by previous girlfriends).
So there's certainly merit to your ideas, from my standpoint. Being alone gives you tremendous freedom, and that's relaxing. Masturbating is reliable and enjoyable. I just eventually get a desire to touch and feel a cute girl, and the cycle continues.
Posted by ROO on October 31, 2002, at 19:07:36
In reply to Re: P.S.... » Ç®ëëþý Tabitha, posted by Eddie Sylvano on October 31, 2002, at 9:42:36
I don't know if you take meds that effect you
sexually, but does that effect your viewpoint
at all? Like it's easier going solo rather than
having to deal with and explain the whole deal about
how meds effect you that way, etc? Or maybe that
doesn't even figure into your equation at all?
Posted by Dreamerz on October 31, 2002, at 19:35:10
In reply to Re: Do Meds fit into this equation at all?, posted by ROO on October 31, 2002, at 19:07:36
My meds don't effect me sexually infact I wish the hyposex/hypersex would calm down ..
I find cold , mechanical/loveless sex boring.
Oh well....
Posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 31, 2002, at 20:49:49
In reply to Re: I honestly hate to say it but... » Kamikazi_Ladybug, posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 21:33:53
I think he's accepted it LOL.
Posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on October 31, 2002, at 23:27:31
In reply to Re: P.S.... » Ç®ëëþý Tabitha, posted by Eddie Sylvano on October 31, 2002, at 9:42:36
Except for me, my partner is disappointed in my lower libido, and I take it as proof I'm sexually inadequate, and in order to hide this unaccaptable conclusion, I start trying to pass as normal by tolerating more sex than I want. Then as my resentment grows, whatever actual desire I felt for sex and enthusiasm for the relationship I started out with dies completely.
Eventually I end up single again, and gradually forget the misery of being in a sexual relationship (is it like forgetting the pain of childbirth?), and the misery of being alone seems worse, so I hook up with Mr. New and the cycle repeats.
Wow, I've never heard myself spell it out in such depressing detail. No wonder I'm eager to turn being partner-free into a legitimate identity.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 1, 2002, at 10:14:49
In reply to Re: Sounds oddly familiar. » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on October 31, 2002, at 23:27:31
> Wow, I've never heard myself spell it out in such depressing detail. No wonder I'm eager to turn being partner-free into a legitimate identity.
-------------------I wish there were some middle ground. One of the profoundly rewarding aspects of being in a relationship (for me) is being loved. I've always felt like no one really loves me, and I crave it. There's also the eventual lonliness that comes from being single for too long. You can have friends, but (especially as a guy) they can't spend that much time with you, or get close to you. There's no love. You can't cry on their shoulder, or hug them or anything.
Still, when it comes to relationships, the most commonly used yardstick of "success" is having lots of sex. As a percentage of time spent together, sex is tiny, but it gets all the attention. It also seems to me that, for women in particular, sex is sometimes more about validation than it is pleasure. Like getting a lot of job offers makes you feel secure professionaly.
Posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on November 1, 2002, at 13:39:33
In reply to Re: Sounds oddly familiar. » Ç®ëëþý Tabitha, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 1, 2002, at 10:14:49
Eddie, can I interrupt our rant to ask if you ever tried any kind of support groups? I went to mixed male-female support groups, and it seemed like the guys were getting emotional support from each other. Much more so than the typical guy buddy type of relationship. Don't know if you'd exactly call it love, but it might help.
Back to my ranting... I never felt particularly loved in any of my sexual relationships. I never even felt understood and accepted. Those needs are met much better by myself, my therapist, and a few select women friends.
The validation thing... yes, I think you're right about women being in it for the validation rather than the pleasure. Social programming there. After all, the part that gives women pleasure is called "foreplay" and they're lucky to get it, while the part that gives men pleasure is called "sex" and therefore the main event. Women are trained to be ashamed of wanting sexual pleasure, and less likely to assert their needs to men, so naturally they've found other reasons to enjoy sex than the physical. Guys can be in it for validation too, just a different type. They want to feel like they're great lovers and have a lot of conquests, whereas women want to feel like they're desirable.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 1, 2002, at 22:01:02
In reply to Re: love, validation, etc » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on November 1, 2002, at 13:39:33
This is such an honest discussion- it's hard to find one like this, and I think everyone can relate to it. Depressed or not, I think it is very difficult to find a relationship which feels really right, in terms of having the sexual and the interpersonal aspects united and satisfying- to have it feel really loving AND sexy. Maybe it just doesn't happen very often for many people. Then, if you are depressed and fearful, AND have to take medications which make it much more difficult to feel as sexy as you used to, it gets so difficult and starts to bring out all the most intense feelings of inadequacy, loneliness and separateness. I'm speaking as a woman, but from what I know and have read here, I think men struggle with exactly the same things.
I am looking forward to the time when we will have ADs which really correct the anxiety, depression and social phobia, but will not give us anhedonia or loss of desire- sometimes it seems like the depression plus the ADs result not just in loss of sexual desire, but also in a loss of strong desire for, or interest in ANYTHING.
Having taken every known SSRI, plus Zyprexa and Wellbutrin, in various combinations over the past eight years, I've experienced all these things to an extreme degree. But after four years of psychotherapy,which seems to have really been the right kind, I have gotten better enough to go off all of those, and am taking just tianeptine, SAM-e, Cytomel and Omega-3's; the wonderful thing about these medications is that there aren't any side-effects, sexual or otherwise. However, a few years ago, they probably would not have been effective against the amount of depression I had then.
Where else could we speak this honestly, and know we will have understanding listeners - it really means a lot.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Tabitha on November 2, 2002, at 4:40:11
In reply to Re: love, validation, etc, posted by Pfinstegg on November 1, 2002, at 22:01:02
Thanks Phinstegg. I was worried that this topic was in the "too much information" category, so your kind words were very welcome.
Posted by jyl on November 2, 2002, at 13:49:27
In reply to I honestly hate to say it but... » Tabßitha, posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on October 30, 2002, at 20:05:20
been married for 12 years-
5 kids...
many months of no sex-
dont want to be touched-think i am not attractive enough or feel good enough to enjoy things.
hubby dont even try to touch me anymore:(
he tells people we are room mates
jyl
Posted by jyl on November 2, 2002, at 16:11:25
In reply to Re: Sex Partners: Who Needs Them?/Dreamerz/Tabitha, posted by jay on October 30, 2002, at 4:34:43
wow-
you got me all randy !
jyl
Posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on November 2, 2002, at 22:49:24
In reply to non sexual?. » Kamikazi_Ladybug, posted by jyl on November 2, 2002, at 13:49:27
Opposite here, he tries very hard jyl...I don't want to be touched..how do I tell my husband of 11 years, that I have 3 children with that I don't want to have sex anymore???? I love him, but don't want it.
Posted by SandraDee on November 3, 2002, at 10:20:10
In reply to Re: non sexual?. » jyl, posted by Kamikazi_Ladybug on November 2, 2002, at 22:49:24
I feel like I could post as you (if I had just one more child). You sound so much like I feel these days. After having the kids climbing all over me all day the last thing I want is someone 5 times their size climbing on me. Hee hee.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 3, 2002, at 23:53:48
In reply to Re: Do Meds fit into this equation at all?, posted by ROO on October 31, 2002, at 19:07:36
> how meds effect you that way, etc? Or maybe that
> doesn't even figure into your equation at all?--------------------
Effexor and Serzone certainly did a number on my desire at the time, but even before that, I wasn't a sexual dynamo. Idk. I matured really late in life, which probably didn't help matters. While everyone else was discovering and integrating themselves sexually, I was irrelevant. It seems like it's just now, as I turn 30, that I finally appear old enough for women to take an interest in me.
It's also only been recently that I've felt "real" and in the moment when having sex. In the past it always seemed surreal and confusing. Hard to explain. Anyway, no, it wasn't the drugs. In fact, the drugs seem to be helping me.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 4, 2002, at 0:02:22
In reply to Re: love, validation, etc » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on November 1, 2002, at 13:39:33
> Eddie, can I interrupt our rant to ask if you ever tried any kind of support groups?
-------------------No. I was supposed to be part of a social phobia group, but for some reason, that never congealed, and I ran out of HMO visits to the counselor.
> Back to my ranting... I never felt particularly loved in any of my sexual relationships. I never even felt understood and accepted. Those needs are met much better by myself, my therapist, and a few select women friends.
-----------------That's a travesty. If there's one thing I've found that constitutes a meaning to life, it's loving and being loved. Unless there are other benefits or circumstances that make a relationship enjoyable, it seems like a big sacrifice to be with someone who doesn't love you. Everyone deserves to be fullly appreciated.
> Guys can be in it for validation too, just a different type. They want to feel like they're great lovers and have a lot of conquests, whereas women want to feel like they're desirable.
----------------Very true. I find that even if I could care less about a girl in a meeting or store, or wherever I might be, I still want her to be interested in me. It's just some basic drive that keeps the population climbing. Fortunately, I'm too reserved to ever try to bed them (or look them in the eye, for that matter).
This is the end of the thread.
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