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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 10, 2002, at 10:48:43
1. did she wear underwear? ;)
2. did she eat breakfast? if so, what?
3. did she paint her toenails?
4. did she bite her fingernails?
5. was she a cat, rat, dog, or ferret person?
6. did she ever wear scrunchies?
7. how did she brush her teeth - up and down, left to right, in a circular fashion?
8. did she smile as a little girl? did she laugh?
9. what was her favorite cartoon?
10. did she wear slippers? a robe? did she tie her hair up in a towel when it was wet?
11. did she read aloud?
12. what brand of cigs did she like?
13. did she still dress up for Halloween?
14. could she swim?
15. could she see what this final act would mean to so many people?- a krying krazy kat
Posted by Fi on April 10, 2002, at 12:26:26
In reply to things i wish i knew about sar, posted by Krazy Kat on April 10, 2002, at 10:48:43
Just to say one thing about your last point: this has been like my other experiences of knowing someone who killed themselves- it causes a lot of shock and despair, like a blast from the centre in their family, on to their close friends, colleagues, and even distant friends and family.
None of us should *ever* think that suicide is a tidy or harmless thing for others. Or that we are burdensome and the world will be better off without us. I am *not* suggesting that Sarr did think these things- I didnt know her well enough to make any assumptions.
But I suspect some of us may, sometimes? So this can be an example to all of us that such a perception is completely inaccurate. Whether or not we act on suicidal feelings, any concern for others should definitely be on the side of staying alive.
Fi
Posted by Cass on April 10, 2002, at 16:08:25
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide » Krazy Kat , posted by Fi on April 10, 2002, at 12:26:26
Posted by Penny on April 10, 2002, at 16:27:08
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide » Krazy Kat , posted by Fi on April 10, 2002, at 12:26:26
I had never known anyone to kill themselves (lucky & young, I guess) until last November, when my grandfather took his own life while my grandmother was out. And I was suicidal myself at the time. Instead of making me more suicidal, it had the opposite effect...I was able to see how painful it was to lose someone to suicide. Even though I could relate to how he was feeling at the time, I could also see the other side.
Of course, the worst part is that that feeling hasn't lasted forever. I still feel the pain of losing my grandfather to suicide...it was as though he was telling us all to f**k off in a way...but at the same time, I understand all too well that pain of feeling like it's never going to get better and that maybe, just maybe, after the pain passes, your family & friends will be better off without you. Or that they at least won't 'miss' anything by your not being alive.
Just how I feel. I sure wish Sar had beaten this thing. I wish everyone could.
Penny
> Just to say one thing about your last point: this has been like my other experiences of knowing someone who killed themselves- it causes a lot of shock and despair, like a blast from the centre in their family, on to their close friends, colleagues, and even distant friends and family.
>
> None of us should *ever* think that suicide is a tidy or harmless thing for others. Or that we are burdensome and the world will be better off without us. I am *not* suggesting that Sarr did think these things- I didnt know her well enough to make any assumptions.
>
> But I suspect some of us may, sometimes? So this can be an example to all of us that such a perception is completely inaccurate. Whether or not we act on suicidal feelings, any concern for others should definitely be on the side of staying alive.
>
>
> Fi
Posted by Marie1 on April 10, 2002, at 17:05:20
In reply to things i wish i knew about sar, posted by Krazy Kat on April 10, 2002, at 10:48:43
I can answer question #2. I remember Sar posting at some point about having painted her toenails a bright coral-pink color. Someone - Kazoo, maybe? - used to tease her about it.
Marie
Posted by Manda on April 10, 2002, at 22:17:11
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide, posted by Penny on April 10, 2002, at 16:27:08
This thread really hit home tonight. I actually had a 'discussion' with my priest today about suicide. It mainly consisted of me saying that although my friends and family would be sad at first, they would be better off without me to drag them down. He, of course, said that was untrue, and that, as a priest, he had enough experience to know that suicide ALWAYS hurts the friends, family, and even acquaintances of the victim. I didn't want to hear it b/c it means that I have to try harder to stay alive, but I think it's probably true. I just struggle so much with the feeling that I am such a burden to everyone...
-Manda
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 11, 2002, at 8:34:00
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide, posted by Manda on April 10, 2002, at 22:17:11
i've struggled with feeling like a burden as well. remember that life is up and down, back and forth, and round and round (especially for us :)) and that if we need extra help right now, it's a given we'll be able to offer extra help later.
- kk
Posted by fi on April 11, 2002, at 10:11:59
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide » Manda, posted by Krazy Kat on April 11, 2002, at 8:34:00
Thinking about it some more, I'm not denying that your close friends/family/colleagues may find your psychological problems a bit burdensome at times (depending if/how you show them). But I can't imagine how that burden could be worse than the permanent burden you leave them with if you kill yourself.
Of the 3 people I have known who killed themselves (all several years ago), I still feel shocked, guilty and sad about the one who was a friend (tho he wasnt even a close one). I hardly knew the others, but still remember the shock to me and everyone who knew them at the time, and feel sad for them now.
That's just my experience, of course. I do understand- very much- how it can seem just too painful to carry on.
But never, ever allow yourself to believe that suicide will relieve the burden on others- and its not just the people who knew you well (tho they will suffer most), but even people who only know you slightly who will be traumatised.
I have also heard that sometimes it can even increase the risk that a relative will do it at some point (particularly children), as the taboo of suicide has been broken in the family. But I dont know if there is hard evidence to back that up.
Fi
Posted by shelliR on April 11, 2002, at 18:35:41
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide, posted by Manda on April 10, 2002, at 22:17:11
Manda,
It most certainly does hurt friends and even
acquaintances.It destroys your family, especially your parents.
There is nothing worse than losing a child.Shelli
Posted by noa on April 12, 2002, at 16:31:35
In reply to things i wish i knew about sar, posted by Krazy Kat on April 10, 2002, at 10:48:43
Found this post--to answer question #1
24 today! bon anniversaire a moi! (nm) sar 2/19/02
Posted by KB on April 14, 2002, at 16:57:09
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide, posted by fi on April 11, 2002, at 10:11:59
Yes, there have been studies that showed that suicide is more likely among those who have lost another family member to suicide - it's been a while since I read them, but I believe the increased risk is attributed, at least in part, to the fact that certain mental illnesses esp. bipolar tend to run in families.\
Posted by IsoM on April 14, 2002, at 19:57:59
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide, posted by fi on April 11, 2002, at 10:11:59
I've also read that if a family member has talked of suicide a lot or has taken their own life, younger, more impressionable members, while still devastated by it, have come to look at it as more exceptable when & if they become very depressed.
I believe that it was frequent talk of suicide by my ex- that made it seem acceptable to two of my own sons when they became very depressed. Both have revised their views since, as they've matured & came to view their father from an adult perspective. One told me that it's never a solution to how one feels if it can affect others so profoundly & so longlasting.
Posted by KB on April 15, 2002, at 7:58:59
In reply to Increased risk to family members, posted by IsoM on April 14, 2002, at 19:57:59
That's interesting - my mother periodically threatened suicide - usually in response to something she was accusing me of doing - and left her copy of final Exit where she knew I would find it. I first started thinking of suicide as an option for myself in 7th grade, age 11.
In the end, she wound up killing herself slowly by not seeking medical care for a lump in her breast. By the time I came home from college for spring break and dragged her to ther hospital, the tumor had grown into her chest wall and she died several years later.
Posted by Gracie2 on April 17, 2002, at 19:59:07
In reply to Re: reaction to suicide, posted by fi on April 11, 2002, at 10:11:59
Last February I attempted suicide, late at night after drinking a bottle of wine. It has been a mercy to me that I don't remember anything about that night, don't remember having my stomach pumped, can't remember anything until I woke up in ICU. In fact, the previous two days before my suicide attempt have been completely wiped from my memory - I was upset because I thought I missed work, but my family assured me that I did go to work those two days.
Although I do not care to remember my experience in the ER - being in the medical field, I have witnessed the "charcoal treatment" and it's thoroughly unpleasant - but I do wish I could remember what thoughts drove me to doing such a drastic thing. My regular doctor surmised that I had no idea what I was doing. My psychiatrist simply said that it is not safe for me to drink alcohol.
Since then I have re-read William Styron's excellent book, "Darkness Visible", the story about his suicidal depression. It provides some insight into suicidal emotions and I would recommend the book to anyone. It's very short and only takes a few hours to read. However, he refers to his depression as "madness", something I disagree with. Styron was not thinking of suicide because he had been directed to kill himself by little men from Mars.
Still, I wondered, do you have to be completely delusional to be considered "mad"? A short time ago I watched a movie about Victor Hugo's daughter, who ostensibly went mad over unrequited love for a soldier. She wore a pillow under her dress to make people believe she was pregnant. In one very touching scene, she followed the soldier through the woods and when he confronted her, she held out a handful of money to him, which made him denounce her as pathetic. Later she apparently lost all touch with reality and was confined to an asylum for life. This, I thought, was truely madness, beyond depression.
Anyway, my suicide attempt left me feeling deeply shamed. If I so much as drop a laundry basket on the floor, my son will always shout, "Mom, are you alright?!" He was so worried about me that I finally took his face in my hands and told him, "I promise you that I will never, ever do that to you again."
He said, "If you did that 100 more times, I would still be here for you," and, of course, I started to cry. What terrible things I have subjected him to...besides my overdose in February, I've been hospitalized for a drug-induced seizure and escorted to an ambulance by the police after I called 911 and asked for the number to a suicide hotline. The police were called after I told the operator I had access to a gun.
How stupid, how careless I have been with my own life and the lives of others that have been affected by my actions. I am deeply sorry for the stress and turmoil I have caused, and I urge others to think of what sorrow they will bring to their families - particularly the legacy left for their children - if they consider suicide.
We will all leave this earth soon enough.
-Gracie
Posted by fi on April 18, 2002, at 5:37:15
In reply to Thoughts on suicide, posted by Gracie2 on April 17, 2002, at 19:59:07
It moved me to read that, Gracie. Thank you for posting it.
Fi
This is the end of the thread.
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