![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on December 14, 2001, at 8:06:29
This thread is inspired by some of Dinah's recent postings and by a discussion I had recently with my therapist about this Board. I've always valued this Board as a place where I don't have to perpetuate the exhausting pretense that everything is fine, and where I can express in writing things that are much harder for me to say orally. I'm also a person who frequently feels very disconnected from people I know, even family members. Only a very few people in my life even know I suffer from depression and I rarely (almost never) share with them anything about my depression. I have no particular clue how to draw on them for support when I'm particularly down.
My therapist thinks there's an irony to my participation on the Board - namely that it gives me an outlet for expressing myself and serves as a valuable source of support, particularly when I am depressed - but that it also makes it easier for me not to look to people in my life for that same support, and that it keeps me from developing the ability to express my feelings to my friends and family. Therefore, I can "connect" in a way with people here (and that's very valuable when I 'm depressed) but it allows me to be less open with others, and thus does nothing to help me conquer the feeling of disconnectedness I often have.
It's always struck me that there are many very articulate writers on this board who express themselves very well and are very open about things.
Do others of you feel that you can express yourself in writing better that you can orally? Are you more open here about your feelings, even than you are with those who are closest to you? Do any of you have pervasive feelings sometimes that you're not able to relate to others or that you just feel disconnected from them? Have any of your therapists suggested that in spite of the positives, your participation here may be counter-productive to establishing other important connections?
I'd love some feedback.
Mair
Posted by JahL on December 14, 2001, at 8:41:22
In reply to Feeling disconnected??, posted by mair on December 14, 2001, at 8:06:29
> Do others of you feel that you can express yourself in writing better that you can orally?Yes. Psychomotor retardation makes talking a real effort for me.
> I'd love some feedback.
For myself, this is the *only* place where my condition is fully understood. Psychiatrists can't comprehend; certainly not therapists. I'm tired of having my level of disability questioned. Friends can only be sympathetic rather than empathetic.
Just as I couldn't possibly imagine the horror of physical torture since I live in a democratic state, unless you've first-hand experience of serious mental illness I doubt one can appreciate fully the horror of the *mental torture* it visits upon you. Simple as that for me.
J.
Posted by Dinah on December 14, 2001, at 9:07:12
In reply to Feeling disconnected??, posted by mair on December 14, 2001, at 8:06:29
I definitely identify with this.
One reason this board is great is that you can choose to respond where you feel you have something to say and you don't have to search for something to say. You can write and review what you post so you are less afraid of making a mistake. I tend to do this in verbal conversations too which puts me totally out of the conversational rhythm. And I also frequently have trouble with thought blockage and slow access time to the hard drive of my brain. It is a lot easier to stop and think when you're writing. So the process makes it easier.
Also, I am somewhat disconnected from my family in some ways, and I have few friends. I don't feel I should burden my family with my problems. It certainly isn't appropriate with my son. My husband gets upset and wants to "fix" things. My parents are emotionally insensitive to the point of being hilarious (and it's not just me who thinks so). This board has been a godsend. Thanks Dr. Bob. It makes me feel a tiny bit less dependent on my therapist because there is somewhere else I can say "I feel like killing myself" or "I am having trouble not cutting" and have people not overreact.
I guess it could be a problem if it keeps you from interacting with the people in your real life, but I can honestly say I wouldn't be more intimate with them without this board. There are just too many other impediments.
Posted by cmcdougall on December 14, 2001, at 9:17:18
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected?? » mair, posted by JahL on December 14, 2001, at 8:41:22
I definately communicate better in writing. When I try to discuss sensitive issues with my husband (or anyone) the words just whirl around in my head. I know what I want to say, but the words can't make it out of my mouth.
Even though I am new to posting here, I have read this board for several months and I feel that you people DO understand what I'm going through. I am also lucky enough to have a pdoc that understands me too. Since depression runs deep in my genes, I have a couple close family members that understand somewhat as well.
I have found that this board distracts me from dealing with important things I need to take care of... connects real well with my procrastination problem. I also find that I'm a "little" compulsive and obsessive about it (who am I kidding?). This has happened to me once before with another board dealing with Father's rights. I was involved in a lawsuit and needed support - now I'm in a depressive crises and need support again.
The board helps a lot in that I can feel a little connected to people who are also suffering, people who don't know me, won't judge me, and who have some darn good advice. After my long battles with mental illness and all the meds I've been on, I feel that I have something of value to offer, and it makes me feel good to pass it on. I am also sure that it does not feel very good for me to find something else to be compulsive and obsessive about.
I set a timer for 30 minutes so that I wouldn't stay on line too long and be late for work. Oh oh, the timer went off 20 minutes ago. ;-)
Carly
>
> > Do others of you feel that you can express yourself in writing better that you can orally?
>
> Yes. Psychomotor retardation makes talking a real effort for me.
>
> > I'd love some feedback.
>
> For myself, this is the *only* place where my condition is fully understood. Psychiatrists can't comprehend; certainly not therapists. I'm tired of having my level of disability questioned. Friends can only be sympathetic rather than empathetic.
>
> Just as I couldn't possibly imagine the horror of physical torture since I live in a democratic state, unless you've first-hand experience of serious mental illness I doubt one can appreciate fully the horror of the *mental torture* it visits upon you. Simple as that for me.
>
> J.
Posted by tina on December 14, 2001, at 9:27:49
In reply to Me too, posted by cmcdougall on December 14, 2001, at 9:17:18
Posted by Katey on December 14, 2001, at 16:41:59
In reply to Me too, posted by cmcdougall on December 14, 2001, at 9:17:18
I relate to everything everyone has said on this thread. i cant talk, well, technically i can, but its very uneven, i lose thought mid word, cant think of the words i want to say, and im really bad at relaying what i really want to say. i do feel disconnected to a lot of people in my life. i dont talk to most of my friends about this because i'm their mental counselor and it would hurt my ability to help and know whats going on if they knew just whats going on in my head. i put up a very painful facade at school. none of my teachers know about my mental illness, i dont want to be treated like i'm disabled. i think people maybe think theres something wrong because i'm so constantly tired, i wander a lot, i tend to isolate myself at times, and i stare off a lot. the few who do know about whats going on know very little. they know that im on medication, and they know what it does, but they have no idea whats going on. i have my parents on a need to know basis, so basically when i need them to do something, thats when they get to know. i am so amazingly grateful for this board, its the only place where i've ever been where people understand whats going on with me, dont over react about what im feeling (i fired my therapist for that)and i know that everyone has enough experience that i would give their advice some merit. im not sure what else to say except that i talk too much.
> I definately communicate better in writing. When I try to discuss sensitive issues with my husband (or anyone) the words just whirl around in my head. I know what I want to say, but the words can't make it out of my mouth.
>
> Even though I am new to posting here, I have read this board for several months and I feel that you people DO understand what I'm going through. I am also lucky enough to have a pdoc that understands me too. Since depression runs deep in my genes, I have a couple close family members that understand somewhat as well.
>
> I have found that this board distracts me from dealing with important things I need to take care of... connects real well with my procrastination problem. I also find that I'm a "little" compulsive and obsessive about it (who am I kidding?). This has happened to me once before with another board dealing with Father's rights. I was involved in a lawsuit and needed support - now I'm in a depressive crises and need support again.
>
> The board helps a lot in that I can feel a little connected to people who are also suffering, people who don't know me, won't judge me, and who have some darn good advice. After my long battles with mental illness and all the meds I've been on, I feel that I have something of value to offer, and it makes me feel good to pass it on. I am also sure that it does not feel very good for me to find something else to be compulsive and obsessive about.
>
> I set a timer for 30 minutes so that I wouldn't stay on line too long and be late for work. Oh oh, the timer went off 20 minutes ago. ;-)
>
> Carly
>
>
> >
> > > Do others of you feel that you can express yourself in writing better that you can orally?
> >
> > Yes. Psychomotor retardation makes talking a real effort for me.
> >
> > > I'd love some feedback.
> >
> > For myself, this is the *only* place where my condition is fully understood. Psychiatrists can't comprehend; certainly not therapists. I'm tired of having my level of disability questioned. Friends can only be sympathetic rather than empathetic.
> >
> > Just as I couldn't possibly imagine the horror of physical torture since I live in a democratic state, unless you've first-hand experience of serious mental illness I doubt one can appreciate fully the horror of the *mental torture* it visits upon you. Simple as that for me.
> >
> > J.
Posted by Mair on December 15, 2001, at 18:24:35
In reply to Re: Me too, posted by Katey on December 14, 2001, at 16:41:59
Thanks all of you who responded to my post. Depression is such an isolating illness, particularly since it doesn't always have a physical manifestation. The difficulty I have in figuring out how to draw on the support of others, and the energy i expend trying to maintain the pretense of normalcy, makes the isolation more acute.
This board has been a godsend for me too. The first time i started coming here, it was just such a relief to discover alot of people who could relate to what i was experiencing. I didn't have to go through a great struggle making myself understood.
It's understandable that when depressed we'd feel disconnected. What I struggle with sometimes, is having that same feeling even when I'm not as depressed. The worst feelings can go away, but it seems that I've conditioned myself to withdraw.
Mair
Posted by wendy b. on December 16, 2001, at 23:16:19
In reply to isolation, posted by Mair on December 15, 2001, at 18:24:35
> Thanks all of you who responded to my post. Depression is such an isolating illness, particularly since it doesn't always have a physical manifestation. The difficulty I have in figuring out how to draw on the support of others, and the energy i expend trying to maintain the pretense of normalcy, makes the isolation more acute.
>
> This board has been a godsend for me too. The first time i started coming here, it was just such a relief to discover alot of people who could relate to what i was experiencing. I didn't have to go through a great struggle making myself understood.
>
> It's understandable that when depressed we'd feel disconnected. What I struggle with sometimes, is having that same feeling even when I'm not as depressed. The worst feelings can go away, but it seems that I've conditioned myself to withdraw.
>
> Mair
Dear Mair,I started to write to you the other night after you first posted the initial message, but I was falling asleep at the wheel, so I promised myself I'd write as soon as I could. Went to NYC for a quick overnight, and I'm back...
You present issues like this so well. We all, and I mean all people, period, have issues with sociability. Right now my group therapy is doing a lot for making me more aware about communication at all levels... how we get along, how we interact, what kind of feedback and support we get from some people, the discouragement and insensitivity we get from others. And then trying to guage our reactions to these situations, it makes for the stuff of life. In social situations, I find that my inability to interpret other people's meaning makes life more difficult for me, and wonder if I have a little BPD. That rift between what people are 'really' saying and how I interpret it is sometimes huge. Like everything negative someone might say to me is not necessarily an attack on me...
As for the Board keeping us from being social in the real world , well, this world is real too. The things we express, and the support we gain, is very real, and has made me feel 'connected' to people in a way that is kind of uncanny. In fact, I would posit a theory that 'talking' things through with other friends here on the Board, and getting better at expressing ourselves (even though it's 'only' in writing), gives us a way to practice saying what we think, like doing a run-through. And being honest and open here might help us be more like that with family and friends.
The deeper social implications having to do with when or why or how often we post stuff on the Board could be many and various. And they might be felt by us over time, and we might feel differently a year from now about it, but that doesn't make it any less valid. Connecting with your world could take place in a lot of different venues. Why limit ourselves, especially when the technology is here to be exploited? Imagine how I felt when I was feeling isolated, like you say, that's the depressive's mode of operation, and then found out there were many, many other people who were a lot like me, and I could TALK to them about my perceptions and feelings. I suppose almost all of us have felt incredibly validated and relieved, that the big 800-lb. gorilla hiding in our closets (our illness) could be exposed and even discussed. In terms of my own denial of my illness, I became enlightened, if I can call it that. I wasn't alone. That's very powerful stuff...
The two activities you mention (being 'social,' vs. posting on the Board) shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive. Regarding it becoming 'addictive' behavior, I can't speak for other people, I'm sure it could turn into an addiction. And then it might be detrimental to a person's health (mental or otherwise). But I haven't reached that point yet, I'm sure most of us haven't. As far as I'm concerned, the benefits outweigh the risks.
I'll stop now, but you raise some great points here, and I hope others will chime in about their possible 'addiction' to PB and/or PSB. Or their opinions about whether it prevents us from dealing with the real world, so to speak.
Getting close to X-mas, I can feel it coming. Hope you are well,
Wendy
Posted by Katey on December 17, 2001, at 3:03:56
In reply to Re: isolation » Mair, posted by wendy b. on December 16, 2001, at 23:16:19
i'm addicted to the boards when i'm worried about someone or when i've posted something important and i want to see if i've been replied to. otherwise i check once, maybe twice a day at the most.
> > Thanks all of you who responded to my post. Depression is such an isolating illness, particularly since it doesn't always have a physical manifestation. The difficulty I have in figuring out how to draw on the support of others, and the energy i expend trying to maintain the pretense of normalcy, makes the isolation more acute.
> >
> > This board has been a godsend for me too. The first time i started coming here, it was just such a relief to discover alot of people who could relate to what i was experiencing. I didn't have to go through a great struggle making myself understood.
> >
> > It's understandable that when depressed we'd feel disconnected. What I struggle with sometimes, is having that same feeling even when I'm not as depressed. The worst feelings can go away, but it seems that I've conditioned myself to withdraw.
> >
> > Mair
>
>
> Dear Mair,
>
> I started to write to you the other night after you first posted the initial message, but I was falling asleep at the wheel, so I promised myself I'd write as soon as I could. Went to NYC for a quick overnight, and I'm back...
>
> You present issues like this so well. We all, and I mean all people, period, have issues with sociability. Right now my group therapy is doing a lot for making me more aware about communication at all levels... how we get along, how we interact, what kind of feedback and support we get from some people, the discouragement and insensitivity we get from others. And then trying to guage our reactions to these situations, it makes for the stuff of life. In social situations, I find that my inability to interpret other people's meaning makes life more difficult for me, and wonder if I have a little BPD. That rift between what people are 'really' saying and how I interpret it is sometimes huge. Like everything negative someone might say to me is not necessarily an attack on me...
>
> As for the Board keeping us from being social in the real world , well, this world is real too. The things we express, and the support we gain, is very real, and has made me feel 'connected' to people in a way that is kind of uncanny. In fact, I would posit a theory that 'talking' things through with other friends here on the Board, and getting better at expressing ourselves (even though it's 'only' in writing), gives us a way to practice saying what we think, like doing a run-through. And being honest and open here might help us be more like that with family and friends.
>
> The deeper social implications having to do with when or why or how often we post stuff on the Board could be many and various. And they might be felt by us over time, and we might feel differently a year from now about it, but that doesn't make it any less valid. Connecting with your world could take place in a lot of different venues. Why limit ourselves, especially when the technology is here to be exploited? Imagine how I felt when I was feeling isolated, like you say, that's the depressive's mode of operation, and then found out there were many, many other people who were a lot like me, and I could TALK to them about my perceptions and feelings. I suppose almost all of us have felt incredibly validated and relieved, that the big 800-lb. gorilla hiding in our closets (our illness) could be exposed and even discussed. In terms of my own denial of my illness, I became enlightened, if I can call it that. I wasn't alone. That's very powerful stuff...
>
> The two activities you mention (being 'social,' vs. posting on the Board) shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive. Regarding it becoming 'addictive' behavior, I can't speak for other people, I'm sure it could turn into an addiction. And then it might be detrimental to a person's health (mental or otherwise). But I haven't reached that point yet, I'm sure most of us haven't. As far as I'm concerned, the benefits outweigh the risks.
>
> I'll stop now, but you raise some great points here, and I hope others will chime in about their possible 'addiction' to PB and/or PSB. Or their opinions about whether it prevents us from dealing with the real world, so to speak.
>
> Getting close to X-mas, I can feel it coming. Hope you are well,
>
> Wendy
Posted by Fi on December 17, 2001, at 11:19:55
In reply to isolation, posted by Mair on December 15, 2001, at 18:24:35
I dont know if its relevant, but I like an explanation I once heard re the introvert/ extrovert thing. Introverted people can certainly like other people but being with them uses up energy. Extroverts actually get energy from being with other people.
I liked it as it shows that for those of us who are maybe naturally introverted (as a personality thing rather than depression=illness thing), arent necessarily isolating ourselves cos we dont like other people or dont want contact, just that we cant do it all the time. Also helpful to realise that if your friends are extroverts they may find it difficult to understand you!
And of course if appearing normal is an effort, its no surprise wanting to be on your own so you dont have to keep up the effort.
Fi
> Thanks all of you who responded to my post. Depression is such an isolating illness, particularly since it doesn't always have a physical manifestation. The difficulty I have in figuring out how to draw on the support of others, and the energy i expend trying to maintain the pretense of normalcy, makes the isolation more acute.
>
It's understandable that when depressed we'd feel disconnected. What I struggle with sometimes, is having that same feeling even when I'm not as depressed. The worst feelings can go away, but it seems that I've conditioned myself to withdraw.
>
> Mair
Posted by mair on December 17, 2001, at 14:15:03
In reply to Re: isolation » Mair, posted by wendy b. on December 16, 2001, at 23:16:19
Wendy - As usual you've said some things that really resonate for me.
I do think PSB has made it alot easier for me to accept my illness in a way that I have not before. I remember saying something to my husband once about how having depression felt to me like I might feel if I had cancer, but couldn't (or felt I shouldn't) tell anyone about it. I'm reminded daily that i have it, and at times, it has seemed every bit as life threatening as cancer, but since no one knows about it, I never get the kind of support people sometimes get who are more obviously sick. I don't think that part of it has changed, but I do feel more comfortable with this disease - not the feelings it brings certainly, just with the fact that I have it. I think it's helped tremendously to hook up with the people on this board, who function to a greater or lesser degree depending on the swings of their illness. Although many of us might not believe it about ourselves (certainly I don't) there are alot of capable and competent people here who just have to overcome some things that other people might take for granted. I discovered lately that while I still don't go out of my way to talk to my friends about it, I also don't actively try to hide it either.
The other thing I agree with is that I think I can express myself (verbally) more easily, at least to my therapist, because I've already expressed some of what i need to say to her in writing. Correspondingly, some of the things my therapist has said to me are reinforced here either by someone else or by me in my response to another poster. After enough repetition, you can't help but have things sink in to even the hardest of heads. Recently I had to deal with a rather unusual issue that arose with my therapist. I went over it in some detail in a series of email exchanges with a person from this board and that process really helped me clarify my own thinking and helped me push myself to raise it in therapy. Maybe because I don't feel that I express myself very well verbally and because I am not comfortable talking about feelings, I have to first process things myself. Once I have explained them to myself in a clear enough fashion, I can then explain them to someone else. I think my therapist would like me to be a little more spontaneous, and would like me to feel that I could work through things with her alot more easily. Sometimes I get a little hung up in the circular reasoning that I apply when I process things myself, so it's not always productive for me to do that.
I don't think PSB is that addictive for me. How much I come here varies from time to time. My therapist tried to get me to see if there is a pattern to when i come. I see none. Right now i just happen to feel comfortable here and that I have something I can offer. That's certainly not always the case. Right now the biggest problem I have is that I have such a hard time competing for computer/internet time at home so the time I have is during the day when I should otherwise be working -like now. -:) Bad thoughts tend to flow from the feeling that I'm not being productive.
BTW - have you tried to email sar? She gave us an email address last week in one of her posts but I can't get it to work.
When you said you could feel xmas coming was that a positive statement or a forewarning?
Mair
Posted by wendy b. on December 19, 2001, at 11:04:08
In reply to Re: isolation, posted by mair on December 17, 2001, at 14:15:03
> Wendy - As usual you've said some things that really resonate for me.
That's nice, I always look forward to reading your posts, too, even if I'm not commenting. Sometimes I think offering my 2 cents isn't necessary, so I don't post... I gotta tell myself: I am not the expert on everything. Although on some subjects, I do have some experience or have done some hard thinking about it. So it all just depends.
> I'm reminded daily that i have it, and at times, it has seemed every bit as life threatening as cancer, but since no one knows about it, I never get the kind of support people sometimes get who are more obviously sick.
I feel this way a lot. Just because my illness ain't visible don't mean I ain't got it. And it would be nice to receive support on a daily basis, as I'm sure terminally-ill patients do... But since I tell so few people, I guess I am cutting myself off from any possible empathy I might get. It's just that I don't expect people to *understand* if they haven't been through it, like they would *understand* a broken bone or a bout of the flu. Nonetheless, the people I have talked to about my depression have been nice to me about it. Not as judgemental as I thought they would be...
> The other thing I agree with is that I think I can express myself (verbally) more easily, at least to my therapist, because I've already expressed some of what i need to say to her in writing. Correspondingly, some of the things my therapist has said to me are reinforced here either by someone else or by me in my response to another poster. After enough repetition, you can't help but have things sink in to even the hardest of heads.This is just what I mean. That I could just as persuasively argue that posting here would help the person become more 'fluent,' we could say, at the things other people who aren't depressed can do with ease. i.e., being social. Fi says it well in her post, that maybe introverts shouldn't be held to the same standard as extroverts. Like: being sociable shouldn't be the litmus test for normal behavior.
>Recently I had to deal with a rather unusual issue that arose with my therapist. I went over it in some detail in a series of email exchanges with a person from this board and that process really helped me clarify my own thinking and helped me push myself to raise it in therapy.
Writing helps me a lot. It's a therapeutic activity. I like to read other postings because they're so instructive. Put simply, I can work things out here, within another time-frame entirely. It's a time of my own choosing, which gives me control, which lessens anxiety. Also, issues close to my heart and mind are just more interesting to me. I want to be a writer, but sometimes lack the discipline to spend serious, set-aside time on it. At least here I'm writing, even if that sounds lame… Further, for someone whose feelings were squashed at an early age, being able to 'converse' with other people about feelings is big stuff.
In the 'real world' I have to come back with snappy answers, here I don't. In the real world, I have zero time to go over things in my head before expressing an opinion. Here, I'm able to pause and work it out in my own mind before I post. I don't know if you remember, but I'm bipolar with depressive features. I am supposedly 'impulsive,' or have acted impulsive in the past, and I'm working on it in therapy. For me, having been 'burnt' by moments in my 'real world' when I blurted something out & should have held my tongue, I like the idea of being able to pause and reflect before I speak. Why make a mess of things when you can sit tight for a while? I don't know if this makes any sense to you, but it's a lesson in learning how to contain myself.
>I think my therapist would like me to be a little more spontaneous, and would like me to feel that I could work through things with her alot more easily.What does she mean by this? I do think it's great to be spontaneous when you've got something interesting or relavant to say. But I don't like bullshitting at all. So I guess taking time to think could be argued to be a more genuine or mature way of responding to the world. I'm playing devil's advocate on some of these issues, obviously. I know that spontaneity is useful in many situations. Personally, I feel quite easy talking in front of other people, but it's a learned behavior from a less-than-stable childhood, you know: sing, dance, tell funny stories, anything but talk about what is real… So I'm ambivalent about it now.
>I don't think PSB is that addictive for me. How much I come here varies from time to time. My therapist tried to get me to see if there is a pattern to when i come. I see none. Right now i just happen to feel comfortable here and that I have something I can offer. That's certainly not always the case.
Right, I feel the same. Also, if I don't participate, it's because I'm thinking, not because I'm too busy or I don't care. My therapist isn't very sure about the internet. She was amazed when I told her the DSM-IV was online in several places. So I think she's one of these people who think making friends on the internet is weird, and I don't talk about PSB much in therapy…
> BTW - have you tried to email sar? She gave us an email address last week in one of her posts but I can't get it to work.
Maybe I've been neglectful, uh oh…! I just figured when she was connected back up to the internet, she'd post. I think she was going to get settled first. So not to worry - she can't stay away forever! I'll give her a try today, too, see what happens… It's not quite the same on the Board without her, is it?
> When you said you could feel xmas coming was that a positive statement or a forewarning?
Oh, I feel pretty ok about Christmas, just that there's sooo much to do, and no time to do it in. I know you're not a big Christmas fan… My daughter is old enough now (9) to be hiding packages in her room, and we're having fun with it all. I just bought these 2 cute little Kyocera cell phones for the two of us, at a really good price. And so "Santa" is going to leave one for her and one for me under the tree. I hope she will be as excited as I am about them… I've never ever owned one, now I'll feel COOL!
Anyway, I've written too much, just wanted to thank you for writing, and hope you and yours are well.
love,
Wendy
Posted by mair on December 19, 2001, at 13:00:10
In reply to Re: isolation » mair, posted by wendy b. on December 19, 2001, at 11:04:08
> "Sometimes I think offering my 2 cents isn't necessary, so I don't post... I gotta tell myself: I am not the expert on everything."
Maybe not, but I think it helps here to have things reiterated or said in a slightly different matter. Besides you always say things very well. >
"But since I tell so few people, I guess I am cutting myself off from any possible empathy I might get. It's just that I don't expect people to *understand* if they haven't been through it, like they would *understand* a broken bone or a bout of the flu. "
I know what this is about but I spend alot of time and energy insulating others from the effects of my illness. Most of the time I'm fine, but I think it's always bothered my shrinks that I haven't found a way to ask for support when I most need it. Of course, when I'm really depressed I'm also incredibly inarticulate about anything of personal importance. >
>
.
>
> " Writing helps me a lot. It's a therapeutic activity. I like to read other postings because they're so instructive. Put simply, I can work things out here, within another time-frame entirely. It's a time of my own choosing, which gives me control, which lessens anxiety"I think that's very true - I frequently read posts and come back to them later.
>
> "In the 'real world' I have to come back with snappy answers, here I don't."You're a teacher aren't you? What do you teach? Whatever happened to the old "I'll have to think about that and get back to you later" response? (-:
>
>
> "What does she mean by this? I do think it's great to be spontaneous when you've got something interesting or relavant to say. But I don't like bullshitting at all. So I guess taking time to think could be argued to be a more genuine or mature way of responding to the world."I don't think spontaneous is the right word. I think her concern is that there are things I don't say to her (at least not for awhile) because on a conscious or unconscious level, I fear her response. I don't feel connected to my therapist to the same degree as Dinah, but I think it's the same concept at work. There's an unexpressed fear that she'll reject me in some manner or be very disapproving or judgmental. It's probably a little frustrating to her because I can't tell her why I fear that and she genuinely doesn't give off those signals. I guess I'm probably doing a massive amount of projecting when I feel that way. I think her deal is that she assumes that I bring some of those same fears into other relationships and thus tend to be very guarded with other people at least as to any topic that I find the least bit threatening. She would say that maybe that wouldn't be the case if I can be more open with her and not be rejected. It all sounds great in theory - the fallacy is that my relationship with her is unique. I pay her to listen to me and she's trained not to react judgmentally.
>" Right, I feel the same. Also, if I don't My therapist isn't very sure about the internet. She was amazed when I told her the DSM-IV was online in several places. So I think she's one of these people who think making friends on the internet is weird, and I don't talk about PSB much in therapy…"
When I first started coming on the Board my therapist was a bit the same way. I think she saw no value in cyber-relationships. I don't talk to her at all about it except very intermittently and more in passing. For some reason, we have talked about it alot in the last couple of sessions. I think she's come around to viewing it as a positive although she is curious, as am I, about what drives me to the Board and away from it at different times. I've never really figured this out.
"Oh, I feel pretty ok about Christmas, just that there's sooo much to do, and no time to do it in. I know you're not a big Christmas fan…"Not true - it's just that I tend to get overwelmed by all that I have to do and there never seems to be enough time to just enjoy it. My extended family arrives and I house at least 4 or 5 of them. This is fine with me since I grew up in a large family/disorganized house environment, but daunting to my husband who grew up in a very small family that didn't welcome or accommodate alot of overnight visitors. Sometimes I get stressed just knowing that he feels intruded upon.
9 is still a good xmas age. My kids would love cell phones plus for me to have a pager so I'm continually and instantly accessible to them. I'm about as illiterate with cell phones as I am about computers. My husband did find this really cheap cell phone service where for a pretty minimal amount of money, you get a phone and a limited but adequate number of minutes. We may do this so our kids have a cell phone to take with them when they're out with friends. My son is driving now and I hate to have him out without a way to get in touch with us easily. Thanks for the response.
Mair
This is the end of the thread.
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