![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PaulB on September 18, 2001, at 17:39:21
I wanted to post a message about Elvis because I just finished the much hailed and raved about second part biography of Elvis life by Peter Guralnick called 'Careless Love-The Unmaking of Elvis Presley'.
The author says that he believed that for the last three to four year of Elvis life he was suffering from clinical depression. For anyone who knows more about Elvis is this true because he did continue to live his life right up until his death in 1977(girlfriends, performaces, holidays). He continued to perform right up until the end. How bad was his depression REALLY and what kind of things was he depressed about. Do you think the final night of his life he was depressed and do you think he OD'd
PaulB
Posted by kazoo on September 18, 2001, at 23:13:43
In reply to Elvis Presleys Depression, posted by PaulB on September 18, 2001, at 17:39:21
> I wanted to post a message about Elvis because I just finished the much hailed and raved about second part biography of Elvis life by Peter Guralnick called 'Careless Love-The Unmaking of Elvis Presley'.
> The author says that he believed that for the last three to four year of Elvis life he was suffering from clinical depression. For anyone who knows more about Elvis is this true because he did continue to live his life right up until his death in 1977(girlfriends, performaces, holidays). He continued to perform right up until the end. How bad was his depression REALLY and what kind of things was he depressed about. Do you think the final night of his life he was depressed and do you think he OD'd
> PaulB^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I read the same book (in fact, I've read quite a few books on Elvis). Though I found Mr. Presley's life interesting, I couldn't stand his music.
Unfortunately, Mr. Guralnick is ten years behind the times. The late Albert Goldman via a sequel to his original Elvis biography came to the same conclusion in 1991, but nobody listened or believed Goldman at the time.
Get a copy of "Elvis: The last 24 hours" and determine for yourself if Elvis was depressed and intentionally over-dosed himself.
Re. the things that could have made Presley depressed: this is self-evident by the way he lived and the people who leeched off of him starting with that carny Colonel Parker.
Personally, I couldn't draw any conclusion from either work since the main component of the argument is very much dead, which is circular reasoning, but it's the best I can do for now.
By the way, the very best book I've read on Elvis is the original Goldman work entitled "Elvis." This was out-of-print for a while, but it may be back. I have autographed copies of both Goldman books. He was a friend of mine.
kazoo
Posted by PaulB on September 19, 2001, at 12:32:30
In reply to Re: Elvis Presleys Depression » PaulB, posted by kazoo on September 18, 2001, at 23:13:43
> > I wanted to post a message about Elvis because I just finished the much hailed and raved about second part biography of Elvis life by Peter Guralnick called 'Careless Love-The Unmaking of Elvis Presley'.
> > The author says that he believed that for the last three to four year of Elvis life he was suffering from clinical depression. For anyone who knows more about Elvis is this true because he did continue to live his life right up until his death in 1977(girlfriends, performaces, holidays). He continued to perform right up until the end. How bad was his depression REALLY and what kind of things was he depressed about. Do you think the final night of his life he was depressed and do you think he OD'd
> > PaulB
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> I read the same book (in fact, I've read quite a few books on Elvis). Though I found Mr. Presley's life interesting, I couldn't stand his music.
>
> Unfortunately, Mr. Guralnick is ten years behind the times. The late Albert Goldman via a sequel to his original Elvis biography came to the same conclusion in 1991, but nobody listened or believed Goldman at the time.
>
> Get a copy of "Elvis: The last 24 hours" and determine for yourself if Elvis was depressed and intentionally over-dosed himself.
>
> Re. the things that could have made Presley depressed: this is self-evident by the way he lived and the people who leeched off of him starting with that carny Colonel Parker.
>
> Personally, I couldn't draw any conclusion from either work since the main component of the argument is very much dead, which is circular reasoning, but it's the best I can do for now.
>
> By the way, the very best book I've read on Elvis is the original Goldman work entitled "Elvis." This was out-of-print for a while, but it may be back. I have autographed copies of both Goldman books. He was a friend of mine.
>
> kazooKazoo
Thanks for your response. The reason I posted it was because fame and celebrity seems to be the most sought after status with all its attachments-looks, lifestyle, fame, money etc yet most celebrities are apparently miserable(depressed). Elvis Presley seemed a typical and most symbolic of the price that can be paid for fame-arguably the most written about figure and well known of our time. I was disspointed that you wrote I would have to draw my own conclusion but I agree with you that, as with Monroe Elvis's end remains something of a mystery. Always and forever a mystery with these celebs isnt it. Fascinating guy though. At least would you say it was a sad story overall?
PaulB
PS Will try and get hold of that book and impressed with your acquaitance with author.
Posted by gracie2 on September 27, 2001, at 1:03:05
In reply to Re: Elvis Presleys Depression, posted by PaulB on September 19, 2001, at 12:32:30
Sorry, I would have posted sooner but have had technical problems.
Elvis did not intentionally kill himself. Why would someone contemplating suicide go to the dentist? This is the action of a person who plans to be around for awhile.
Elvis died due to polypharmacy. He had a number of drugs in his system, none of which, by itself, would have been fatal. The interaction of all these drugs caused his death. Elvis became an experienced drug-user because his personal doctor was afraid of losing contact with his celebrity patient if he did not prescribe whatever drugs Elvis desired. An experienced drug-user develops tolerance to medication, and requires more and more of it to achieve the desired effect. Despite this tolerance, there is a point where the body can simply handle no more. The result can be one or a combination of the following: coma, seizure,
aspiration, and death.
Although I was born after Elvis' heyday, I recognize his talent. He was a ground-breaker and the true king of rock-n-roll, and the reason for his death does not diminish him in my eyes. He was under enormous pressure; to stay young, to lose weight, to continue making music and money.
The tendency to self-medicate is common in people under stress - with proper medical intervention, Elvis could be with us today. In the long run, he is only guilty of being human.
-Gracie
Posted by kazoo on September 29, 2001, at 0:31:09
In reply to Re: Elvis Presleys Depression, posted by gracie2 on September 27, 2001, at 1:03:05
> Elvis did not intentionally kill himself. Why would someone contemplating suicide go to the dentist? This is the action of a person who plans to be around for awhile.
^^^^^^^^^^
Gracie, my dear ...
Oh, how I admire your innocence and naiveté re. Mr. Presley.
FYI, Mr. Presley's dentist(s) were the biggest pill pushers on the planet (in addition to that other carnivorous annelid worm of a doctor he had in Memphis who traveled with him). He feigned dental pain and problems to get DILAUDID which is synthetic heroin used for excruciating pain (as in cancer). Besides, his teeth were capped. How many times does one cap their teeth? (Any dentists here?)
> Elvis died due to polypharmacy. He had a number of drugs in his system, none of which, by itself, would have been fatal.
> aspiration, and death.^^^^^^^^^^
The autopsy revealed he had 16 different kinds of drugs in his system, most of which were at lethal doses.Okay, enough of this ridiculous glossing over re. Elvis's death. According to Albert Goldman (and a slew of medical people who researched extensively into his death), Elvis died because he couldn't take a crap, plain and simple! He "ate" narcotics like a kid eats M&Ms. One of the biggest problems with narcotic drug addicts is constipation, terrible constipation, to the point of impaction. Toward the end of his life, his leeching body guards would have to pick up this big fat slob and plop him on the bidet because he was too bloated to get out of bed by himself. Personal, reliable sources close to Elvis reported that he would stay in the bathroom for hours trying to evacuate cement (his stupid, fatty, fast-food diet didn't help the condtion).
Now try to picture this: here is this blimp, on the toilet, trying to eliminate several pounds of pre-stressed cement, pushing with all his might ... as it is said "Something's got to give," and something did, probably puncturing an intestine or the colon ... the blimp, feeling the pain, tries to fly but lead balloons don't ... and the "King of Conspicuous Consumption and Excesses," like Lupe Valez in the 1940s, dies ignobly in the crapper from massive internal bleeding, trauma, or what-have-you when your guts give way. (Surprise! Surprise!)
How quaint.
How not original.
How stupid!
The common explanations for his death:
Drug overdose?
Heart attack?
Kidney failure?
Respiratory problems?
Liver problems?
Ectera ...
Ectera ...
Ectera ...
Yeah, right, sure, next and pigs can fly, too.The moral of the Elvis story is this (PAY ATTENTION!): never under estimate the need for fruits and veggies in a balanced diet, and the need to move your bowels daily.
ExLax, anyone?
==================
REFERENCES:"ELVIS," Albert Goldman, Viking Penguin, (c)1981, ISBN: 0140059652
"ELVIS: The last Twenty-Four Hours," Albert Goldman, (c)1991, ISBN: 0312925417, BINC: 4846960
Both are available as paperbacks.
Try here: http://www.harvestbooks.com for second hand copies.I recommend both books.
(i iz ah litterate) kazoo
Posted by Jane D on September 29, 2001, at 0:45:30
In reply to Re: Elvis Presley's Depression, posted by kazoo on September 29, 2001, at 0:31:09
You really like to live dangerously! Insulting Elvis is the ultimate no no. Why don't you play it safe for a while and join a nice peaceful thread. Perhaps something like the one below on how we should feel about the WTC attack? You'll almost certainly get less flack there.
Posted by susan C on September 29, 2001, at 19:30:48
In reply to Re: Elvis Presley's Depression, posted by kazoo on September 29, 2001, at 0:31:09
Kazoo, this is all from reading in your spare time? I never was much on elvis, more a paul person myself, sir mccartney now I guess. BTW I have a pink, with white spots, flying pig sitting on my monitor right now, thank you very much.. And I watched 'Pecker', had an attack of 'that was my life' and 'spinal tap' which was confusing for a while, especially when I couldn't find the armadillos...
'Throw me a bone here, I've been gone for thirty years...' Dr Evil, Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery...
struggling mouse
susan C> > Elvis did not intentionally kill himself. Why would someone contemplating suicide go to the dentist? This is the action of a person who plans to be around for awhile.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Gracie, my dear ...
>
> Oh, how I admire your innocence and naiveté re. Mr. Presley.
>
> FYI, Mr. Presley's dentist(s) were the biggest pill pushers on the planet (in addition to that other carnivorous annelid worm of a doctor he had in Memphis who traveled with him). He feigned dental pain and problems to get DILAUDID which is synthetic heroin used for excruciating pain (as in cancer). Besides, his teeth were capped. How many times does one cap their teeth? (Any dentists here?)
>
> > Elvis died due to polypharmacy. He had a number of drugs in his system, none of which, by itself, would have been fatal.
> > aspiration, and death.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> The autopsy revealed he had 16 different kinds of drugs in his system, most of which were at lethal doses.
>
> Okay, enough of this ridiculous glossing over re. Elvis's death. According to Albert Goldman (and a slew of medical people who researched extensively into his death), Elvis died because he couldn't take a crap, plain and simple! He "ate" narcotics like a kid eats M&Ms. One of the biggest problems with narcotic drug addicts is constipation, terrible constipation, to the point of impaction. Toward the end of his life, his leeching body guards would have to pick up this big fat slob and plop him on the bidet because he was too bloated to get out of bed by himself. Personal, reliable sources close to Elvis reported that he would stay in the bathroom for hours trying to evacuate cement (his stupid, fatty, fast-food diet didn't help the condtion).
>
> Now try to picture this: here is this blimp, on the toilet, trying to eliminate several pounds of pre-stressed cement, pushing with all his might ... as it is said "Something's got to give," and something did, probably puncturing an intestine or the colon ... the blimp, feeling the pain, tries to fly but lead balloons don't ... and the "King of Conspicuous Consumption and Excesses," like Lupe Valez in the 1940s, dies ignobly in the crapper from massive internal bleeding, trauma, or what-have-you when your guts give way. (Surprise! Surprise!)
>
> How quaint.
>
> How not original.
>
> How stupid!
>
> The common explanations for his death:
> Drug overdose?
> Heart attack?
> Kidney failure?
> Respiratory problems?
> Liver problems?
> Ectera ...
> Ectera ...
> Ectera ...
> Yeah, right, sure, next and pigs can fly, too.
>
> The moral of the Elvis story is this (PAY ATTENTION!): never under estimate the need for fruits and veggies in a balanced diet, and the need to move your bowels daily.
>
> ExLax, anyone?
>
> ==================
> REFERENCES:
>
> "ELVIS," Albert Goldman, Viking Penguin, (c)1981, ISBN: 0140059652
>
> "ELVIS: The last Twenty-Four Hours," Albert Goldman, (c)1991, ISBN: 0312925417, BINC: 4846960
>
> Both are available as paperbacks.
> Try here: http://www.harvestbooks.com for second hand copies.
>
> I recommend both books.
>
> (i iz ah litterate) kazoo
Posted by Gracie2 on October 2, 2001, at 22:13:49
In reply to Re: Elvis Presley's Depression » kazoo, posted by susan C on September 29, 2001, at 19:30:48
I didn't read either of the recommended books. I got my info from the coroner's report.
-Gracie
Posted by TOP on December 30, 2001, at 12:00:23
In reply to Re: Elvis Presley's Depression, posted by Gracie2 on October 2, 2001, at 22:13:49
Gracie
How do i get a copy of the coroners report? Also, I am interested in obtaining a copy of the actual report of Dr. Joseph Davis's reexamination of autopsy where he says heart attack not polypharmacy. Any ideas on where to locate these?
Posted by Gracie2 on December 31, 2001, at 12:19:38
In reply to Re: Elvis Presley's Depression, posted by TOP on December 30, 2001, at 12:00:23
Top-
My information came from a book called "Cause of Death" by Dr. Cyril Wecht, an eminent and highly respected pathologist. Although Elvis did not die in Dr. Wecht's jurisdiction, the doctors involved in Elvis' autopsy knew that their findings would cause a hailstorm of controversy and be a crushing disappointment to many of Elvis' fans.
To complicate matters, Elvis' publicist denied any drug use by the singer.
Dr. Wecht was asked to review the autopsy and toxicology reports as he was unconnected with the music business and unconcerned with the publicity
surrounding Elvis' death; in other words, his report is considered to be completely objective.There is one reason for the cause of confusion around Elvis' death: the many people who had a vested interest in keeping his "good old boy" reputation squeaky-clean. Some of these people simply loved Elvis and did not want his reputation to be tarnished. Others were concerned
about the effect his drug use would have on record sales, reptilian as that sounds.Although I do not have the actual autopsy report, I have the transcript of a televised interview
by Dr. Wecht after studying Elvis' toxicological
reports:
Q: Dr. Wecht, how did Elvis Presley die?
W: I believe that Mr. Presley died as the result of a combined drug effect. Various drugs, all of which are known to be central nervous system depressants, collectively caused his heart and lungs to be depressed. The brain controls the activities of the heart and lungs involuntarily. When the brain is depressed by multiple drugs, such as happened in this case, in my opinion, the heart and lungs will not function properly.Q: What specific drugs are we talking about?
W: There were several drugs involved here. The principal offender in this case was codeine, which is a pain reliever but is known to have a central nervous system depressant effect. Other drugs included Valium, a tranquilizer; Valmid, Placidyl, phenobarbital, and butabarbital- all sedatives. It's incredible that all of these drugs should have been given to a patient simultaneously.(Later)
Q: Did the level of codeine kill Elvis Presley?
W: The level was significant by itself...it was at a near-fatal level...most codeine deaths that we see are, as in this case, those situations in which other drugs having a depressant effect upon the brain have also been ingested togther with codeine. That can result in death.* * * * *
People do not want to believe that Elvis overdosed just as they do not want to believe that Kennedy was shot by a single killer or that Marilyn Monroe killed herself. It seems that these larger-than-life people should have some spectacular, larger-than-life reason for dieing.
But despite their talent, in the end, they were folks just like you and me.One more thing: my impression of Elvis Presley was not diminished by his manner of death. I believe, at heart, he was still a "good old country boy", and he was simply overwhelmed by his fame. The constant pressure he was under to stay young, lose weight, entertain on demand and, above all, to make money for all the people that depended on him, was his undoing. You will notice that the drugs in his system were sedatives - not cocaine, not speed, but drugs to help him calm down, to take the pressure off and keep him from being so rattled. It is best to remember him for his talent and not the way he died.
-Gracie
Posted by PaulB on January 1, 2002, at 17:39:06
In reply to Re: Elvis Presleys Depression » PaulB, posted by kazoo on September 18, 2001, at 23:13:43
> > I wanted to post a message about Elvis because I just finished the much hailed and raved about second part biography of Elvis life by Peter Guralnick called 'Careless Love-The Unmaking of Elvis Presley'.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> I read the same book (in fact, I've read quite a few books on Elvis). Though I found Mr. Presley's life interesting, I couldn't stand his music.
>
> Unfortunately, Mr. Guralnick is ten years behind the times. The late Albert Goldman via a sequel to his original Elvis biography came to the same conclusion in 1991, but nobody listened or believed Goldman at the time.
>
> Get a copy of "Elvis: The last 24 hours" and determine for yourself if Elvis was depressed and intentionally over-dosed himself.
>
> Re. the things that could have made Presley depressed: this is self-evident by the way he lived and the people who leeched off of him starting with that carny Colonel Parker.
>
> Personally, I couldn't draw any conclusion from either work since the main component of the argument is very much dead, which is circular reasoning, but it's the best I can do for now.
>
> By the way, the very best book I've read on Elvis is the original Goldman work entitled "Elvis." This was out-of-print for a while, but it may be back. I have autographed copies of both Goldman books. He was a friend of mine.
>
> kazoo
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
HeartbreakhotelAlwaysOnMyMindHounddogJailHouseRock
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Finally, I have managed to get hold of a copy of the original Goldman work you mentioned entitled 'Elvis' It wasnt easy because, as you stated it has been out of print for a while. 'Elvis: the Last 24 hours' is still available so Im in no hurry to get that one at the moment. Actually I read the sequel to Mr. Guralnick book 'The Last Train To Memphis', 'The Unmaking Of Elvis Presley' first. They are just so well written with great structure. Another good book is 'The Psychology Of Elvis'.
I think each of these books takes a look into a man who was far more complex than some people might have guessed. In a book club I went to someone stated that 'Elvis was America and epitomised American culture'. If anyone reads this message what do you think defines American culture and sets it apart from other cultures in the Western world and beyond and the remark the person at the book club I went to meant.
This is a message that has its roots in psychiatry so I hope its fitting here at PSB Dr-Bob. If you think overwise, I apologise.
PaulB
Posted by susan C on January 1, 2002, at 18:26:25
In reply to Re: Elvis Presley And American Culture, posted by PaulB on January 1, 2002, at 17:39:06
If anyone reads this message what do you think defines American culture and sets it apart from other cultures in the Western world and beyond and the remark the person at the book club I went to meant.
dear paulb,
a message from an amerikin mouse hereI just got a gift from my 83 year old mother, of family silver. Grapefruit spoons, fruit knives, olive fork, gravey ladle and a serving spoon. I have spent the morning with a magnifying glass and my son (his eyes are better than mine) trying to figure out the hallmarks. The oldest piece is the serving spoon and may date back to the American late 1700's to mid 1800's. So, your post struck a cord.
What makes an american an american, what makes me, psychologically, me, how much of me is my identity with my family history? For me, a lot. I see, specifically, the history of mental illness in my family. I see in general the difference between the people who left europe and struck out for the unknown. I subscribe wholeheartedly to the 'independent minded american' (as in North American and what the heck, Australian) point of view. It isn't that there aren't independent minded people elsewhere. I think more of them came and survived here. Elvis included
When I grew up in the midwest, then moved to the west coast, I noticed the architecture of the english tutor style house i grew up in changed as i traveled west, and became more stylized. Also that the further west, the least likely you were to see 'old' houses. Years later, I traveled to England and of course saw the originals and realized, my childhood home was stylized...I also traveled to the east coast...it was like the game of 'telephone' with that style...each 1000 miles or so, west, the design element changed.
I remember a comment from the visit to england long ago. The person commented to me that in England, no one was proud of their house, like it was a personal possesion, something that showed their individuality, because most people inherited everything. They inherited the house, and the furniture. Everything there was someone elses and very old. You didn't buy things for your house and show them off. Now, here in the States, that would be very unusual. Most of us have started from scratch and, perhaps, some of us have built a house, and purchased the new furniture, or have moved. (20% of the population moves every year) and our house, our abode, is a statement of who we are.So there you have it, from 150 year old silver, to mental health, to immigrants to Elvis, to tudor houses and decorating.
from Mouse who watches Christopher Lowell just so she can learn what NOT to do.
>
Posted by Mitch on January 2, 2002, at 14:55:45
In reply to American Culture and mice, posted by susan C on January 1, 2002, at 18:26:25
> If anyone reads this message what do you think defines American culture and sets it apart from other cultures in the Western world and beyond and the remark the person at the book club I went to meant.
Hi Susan,I guess there is the good stuff and the bad stuff. The good stuff I think is the individualism and diversity here (doing your own thing, taking responsibility for your own destiny, etc.) The bad stuff that makes us unique (in my mind anyhow) is the SAMENESS everywhere you go here. There just doesn't seem to be much regional differences anymore due to commercialism, TV, etc.
Mitch
Posted by Cam W. on January 2, 2002, at 17:54:05
In reply to American Culture and mice, posted by susan C on January 1, 2002, at 18:26:25
Susan - You are saying that North Americans and Australians are the only independent-minded nations of the Western world? Mind if I take the lead, with the backing of the other Canadians on this site, secede from this group. Now, I am asking politely, because I know what happened last time someone tried to leave your little group.
My mom told me not to play with bullies and felons ("it's a joke people, don't ram a flagpole - or a Fosters - up my.... oh, whatever).
Haven't our "I Am Canadian" commercials taught you anything? =^p
How about the guy who gets "jerseyed" for teasing the Canadian at the office? Betcha he was "leakin" all over that Armani suit, before he was able to "turtle". As an aside, okay, we will give you glowing puck until your learn the fundamentals of the game (or just look to see which way all the players are facing), but adding that streak to anything faster than a wristshot went just a tad too far. Since we are on the subject of sports, why do you bother to play anything but the last 2 minutes of any basketball game (a decidedly Canadian invention). And you Aussies think that Aussie Rules is a rough sport; try lacrosse; where the object of the game is to slash your opponent into submission with webbed pieces of hardwood (yeah, I know they now wear shoulder pads and helmets, but it was getting so that none Lemieux family were able to attend reunions anymore; none of them were able to remember where they were being held).
Look, we'll let you have all of our comedians (Phil Hartman, John Candy, Jim Carrey, Dan Aykroyd, Mike Myers, Tommy Chong, Dave Thomas, Rick Moranis, Bruce McCullough, Eugene Levy, Mort Sahl, ... Howie Mandel, ... Dave Foley, ... William Shatner, .?.. Allan Thicke, ... David Steinberg, .?.. Tom Green, ... Rich Little, ... Norm MacDonald .... Oh God, shoot me now!).
We are really easy going up here. It's probably because our beer is 5% to 8% alcohol (it does get cold here). Maybe it's because our familys' are so close knit because we can't go outside in the winter (I heard that one in Florida - I had 2 words for the lady who said it, "electric carstarter". Perhaps it is because no one has to join our pathetically-funded, but tough, armed forces (you guys aren't going to let anyone else move north of you). We did kick your asses in the last war against each other.... in 1812 - 1814 (Geez, if you tried just a bit harder, you coulda had Toronto, .... but nnnooo, you had to leave the center of the universe to us).
Maybe it's because our politicians are impossible to take seriously, anymore. Back in the 60s and 70s we had P.E.T. (Trudeau) who use to cuss while Parliment was in session (he really did say Fuddle-Duddle, eh), and get away with it; he did a little spinning kind of dance behind Queen Lizzie's back on world wide T.V., and got away with it; he lent his wife to the Rolling Stones, and when Keith Richards got caught bringing heroin into the country, Trudeau made him give a free concert to blind kids. Now that's a leader!
What do we have now? A guy (who was in Trudeau's cabinet, so should know better) who claims that the homeless people like to live on the street, because they told him so (we have meds for that, Jean). He handles protesters by either having the RCMP pepperspray peaceful protesters; or if the protesters act up, he personally shakes their .... er, neck.
So mouse, thanks for allowing us to join your club, so you can take all of our fresh water, our oil, other minerals, trees; but we already have someone who does that. They live in Ottawa.
In the immortal words of the Arrogant Worms (a truly Canadian band), "It's not that we're better, it's just that we're less worse." But then again, they also sing a song about a guy named Malcolm who solves his problems with a chainsaw (but he never has the same problem twice).
I hope this is taken in the good humor in which it was intended. And look, we'll give you Jim Carrey, but Shania Twain is ours! Hell, we'll even throw in Celine Dion and her grandpa .... er, husband.
- Cam (with his tongue so far in his cheek it hurts).
P.S. How many Torontonians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Answer: Two! One to screw in the lightbulb and the other to go to New York to see if that is how they do it.
Posted by susan C on January 2, 2002, at 18:09:54
In reply to Re: American Culture - Hey Mouse! » susan C, posted by Cam W. on January 2, 2002, at 17:54:05
> Susan - You are saying that North Americans and Australians are the only independent-minded nations of the Western world?
Well, last time I checked, the North American Continent included Ca ud ia...oh, and was any of this great expanse of the northern empire setted by penal colonies? I think about that when I think about what makes the United States Of America great...many of our famous people got their money (and still do) as crooks, take for example, joe kennedy...
mouse listening to CBC
Posted by Gracie2 on January 2, 2002, at 20:38:53
In reply to LOL » Cam W., posted by susan C on January 2, 2002, at 18:09:54
Not that I'm not enjoying this thread (oops, double negative) but how did we get from Elvis Presley to...well, to the rest of this conversation? I sure wish we were all in a room together with our lattes or Merlots and some kind of sound system for us leper smokers so we can keep up with the conversation while we freeze off our arses on the sidewalk.
I think someone mentioned that all Americans are pretty much alike due to commercialism, etc., and I must disagree. When I was in the Army about 250 years ago, I was stationed all over the country and always found people in one region to be very different from the locals at the last place I had lived. When I moved from Texas to New York, it seemed prudent to remove the Confederate flag and gun rack from the window of my pick-up. (Just kidding! I kept the gun under my seat.) In Massachusetts, I called the telephone company to have my phone service hooked up, and the operator started laughing at me. She said, "I'm so sorry,
but WHERE are your from?" I said, "Honey, I do not have an accent. YOU have the accent."
In Colorado, I was a passenger in a car driven by one of the natives, and he was flying through a mountain pass like it was flat terrain. If the FBI ever wants my fingerprints, they are embedded
in the dashboard of this guy's car, although he was not apparently driving any faster than usual
for the natives.
We Americans ARE more alike than, say, the Germans, as I also spent two years in Germany. For instance, we tend to like our beer cold. There is no speed limit on the autobahn, and there are (or there was not) a law against police brutality. One is imminently respectful to the polizei.
In closing, here, I would like to say that everywhere I look these days, I see an American flag and it never fails to gladden my heart. I happened to be home on September 11th and watched the terrorist acts on TV as they happened. At first I was shocked and horrified, and I wept uncontrollably when the towers collapsed because I knew there were firemen inside, and my husband is a fireman. I know how the survivors feel, because my brother was killed in a military aircrash caused by a terrorist bomb. It is difficult not to hate and wish mass destruction on those who may be even marginally responsible, even though I tell myself that these feelings will only bring me down to the level of the terrorists. But it does make me proud to see how Americans have reacted to this evil; the blood, the money, the work, the time donated to help other Americans in trouble. We are still patriots.
-Gracie (all over the map)
Posted by PaulB on January 18, 2002, at 22:36:15
In reply to Re: Elvis Presley And American Culture, posted by PaulB on January 1, 2002, at 17:39:06
> > > I wanted to post a message about Elvis because I just finished the much hailed and raved about second part biography of Elvis life by Peter Guralnick called 'Careless Love-The Unmaking of Elvis Presley'.
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > I read the same book (in fact, I've read quite a few books on Elvis). Though I found Mr. Presley's life interesting, I couldn't stand his music.
> >
> > Unfortunately, Mr. Guralnick is ten years behind the times. The late Albert Goldman via a sequel to his original Elvis biography came to the same conclusion in 1991, but nobody listened or believed Goldman at the time.
> >
> > Get a copy of "Elvis: The last 24 hours" and determine for yourself if Elvis was depressed and intentionally over-dosed himself.
> >
> > Re. the things that could have made Presley depressed: this is self-evident by the way he lived and the people who leeched off of him starting with that carny Colonel Parker.
> >
> > Personally, I couldn't draw any conclusion from either work since the main component of the argument is very much dead, which is circular reasoning, but it's the best I can do for now.
> >
> > By the way, the very best book I've read on Elvis is the original Goldman work entitled "Elvis." This was out-of-print for a while, but it may be back. I have autographed copies of both Goldman books. He was a friend of mine.
> >
> > kazoo
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> HeartbreakhotelAlwaysOnMyMindHounddogJailHouseRock
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Finally, I have managed to get hold of a copy of the original Goldman work you mentioned entitled 'Elvis' It wasnt easy because, as you stated it has been out of print for a while. 'Elvis: the Last 24 hours' is still available so Im in no hurry to get that one at the moment. Actually I read the sequel to Mr. Guralnick book 'The Last Train To Memphis', 'The Unmaking Of Elvis Presley' first. They are just so well written with great structure. Another good book is 'The Psychology Of Elvis'.
>
> I think each of these books takes a look into a man who was far more complex than some people might have guessed. In a book club I went to someone stated that 'Elvis was America and epitomised American culture'. If anyone reads this message what do you think defines American culture and sets it apart from other cultures in the Western world and beyond and the remark the person at the book club I went to meant.
>
> This is a message that has its roots in psychiatry so I hope its fitting here at PSB Dr-Bob. If you think overwise, I apologise.
>
> PaulB
>
>Its 4.18 in the UK and Im not going to stop now on Goldman's Elvis. This compelling life story is drawing to a dark close. Somehow I got through 200 pages in three hours with lots of hot coffee which the late King himself used on occasion. Fortunately I dont have access to his narcotics. I just cant put the book down. Pricilla has just gone in this work of non-fiction and I know that this book has a finale that is everything and nothing but tragic. I know the tale well but not the whole truth. Now Goldman, a master storyteller, is revealing it to me in American, excessive, unbelievable, brain-draining style. The fire is burning in my place and Im going to boil the kettle for some more hot coffee then I will snuggle up in my little corner to prepare myself for the end of this book. It gives me hope though that one the pain that destroys the human soul does, eventually, end. Death is peace and perhaps you can breath, for a few moments before you go, the way you did a long time ago.
PaulB
Posted by Gracie2 on January 22, 2002, at 0:08:50
In reply to Re: Elvis Presley And American Culture, posted by PaulB on January 18, 2002, at 22:36:15
I am disheartned by the number of books published on the "last days" of Elvis and all the wild speculation about his drug abuse, his weight gain, his love for fattening foods, his temper
trantrums, his wild clothes, his bizarre house, his "unnatural" love for his mother, ad nauseum.
This is all low-class tabloid fodder.There is a saying that an artist is judged by his high point and a criminal is judged by his lowest.
It is discouraging to know that people make money
by scrounging up sordid details in this man's life while ignoring the ground-breaking talent of a true artist.Put it this way: if you, Joe Blow, were to have your life dissected in excrutiating detail, would you like your faults to be analyzed in painful detail to the general public? Would it please you to know that most people in the English-speaking world are aware that you died on the toilet? Doubt it.
Surprisingly, I'm not a particular fan of "the King". I WAS a big fan and hopelessly devoted to Diana, the former princess of Wales. I thought she was the most beautiful, stylish person in the world, and her mental problems were mostly caused by an uncaring, philandering husband, whose proof of adultery with an older, ugly, unsophisticated, married woman was a matter of record, disgustingly displayed in public audiotapes for all the world to hear. The "I wish I could be your tampon" comment literally turned my stomach.
At the same time and on the same day that Charles publically announced that he never loved Diana, she emerged from a limo in the famous black "screw-you" dress, outwardly happy and smiling and confident. I was so proud of her! Not only did she refuse to curl up in a dark corner somewhere, she was able to outshine him - once again. I'm now convinced that Charles preferred Camilla because of her unattractive appearance, innate drabness, and a sense of style to rival the Queen Mother. Married or not, she will never take precedence over Charles in a public appearance. I believe that's all he ever wanted. I've heard stories in the tabloids about her sexual expertise, which makes me shudder. This is a scene that should never be visualized, unless you are attempting to stay with your diet.In all fairness, none of this is our business. Elvis should be remembered for his talent and not his fondness for fried peanut-butter-and-banana sandwiches, nor his death by a drug overdose. Princess Diana should be remembered for her beauty, her sense of style, the great love she had for her sons and the work she did for charity,
rather than her struggle with anorexia and the affairs she had after her husband had rejected her. Charles should be respected as the future king of England, and even Camilla should be admired as few rotweillers are capable of walking upright.Just leave them alone. Any of you who are blameless may cast the first stone.
-Gracie"All I said was, this dinner is good enough for Jehovah!"
"Don't say that name again, old man, you're only making it worse for yourself!"
"Worse for myself! I'm about to be stoned to death, how can I possibly make it worse for myself!" (Doing a little dance)..."Jehovah! Jehovah!"
Posted by jane d on January 23, 2002, at 0:38:38
In reply to Re: Elvis and Diana, posted by Gracie2 on January 22, 2002, at 0:08:50
Is this really what you think of all of us who don't look like you or Diana Spencer?
Posted by Gracie2 on January 23, 2002, at 18:20:32
In reply to Re: Elvis and Diana » Gracie2, posted by jane d on January 23, 2002, at 0:38:38
> Is this really what you think of all of us who don't look like you or Diana Spencer?
>What, because I was making fun of Camilla? Of course not. But Charles and Camilla were both married during their little trysts and I despise adultery. Also, I was just being catty, and I apologize for that.
-Gracie
This is the end of the thread.
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