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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Noa on November 17, 2000, at 16:19:02
So, what did you guys think?
I actually thought the acting was really good. I also thought it was a good, human portrayal of Bipolar disorder and its effects on people and their families. However, when I watch stuff like that, I am always watching with a bit of self-consciousness, wondering how it plays to people who have no clue about this disorder---does it help in educating them, or hurt? Obviously, this is the portrayal of this particular mother/daughter dyad's experience of this illness, and can't be generalized to all who suffer from bipolar, but I think it seemed pretty genuine, although, as I said, I then wonder if a particular portrayal skews the view of the uninitiated.
I liked the way Sally Field's character was so appealing to everyone there (aside from the fact that she kept feeding them), and the daughter's (Maura Tierney) conflicted feelings and fond memories of how fun Mom could sometimes be when Manic.
So, what did you guys think?
Posted by Noa on November 17, 2000, at 16:20:52
In reply to Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field on ER, posted by Noa on November 17, 2000, at 16:19:02
I also liked how Field portrayed the vulnerability and desparate desire to be "ok", and her love for her daughter.
Posted by Rzip on November 17, 2000, at 20:38:11
In reply to Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field on ER, posted by Noa on November 17, 2000, at 16:19:02
Noa,
I know medical students at Universities across the nation, who look to the series as an educational/entertainment tool on Thursday nights. Some medical people watch it religiously.
I would have liked to see Lithium as the treatment drug for Bipolar disorder get elaborated on more. Given Sally Field's case, the writers could have hinted at how there is an ideal level of lithium intake for people. At this equilibrium point, they are able to have clarity of thinking and they are not manic. The Lithium issue could have been addressed more, I think.
In general, I would like to see more psychiatric (i.e. therapy sessions) cases being portrayed in the story-lines.
It was a bomb to see Peter's nephew dying. I kind of wished to see the more gentler side of Peter mentoring his nephew out of the precautious teen years :-(
I'll reply next week during the Thanksgiving break. I am kind of under a impulse-control regime.
- Rzip
Posted by shar on November 17, 2000, at 21:24:22
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field on ER » Noa, posted by Rzip on November 17, 2000, at 20:38:11
Don't attack me!! I am writing about a "disorder" I don't know much about, and don't intend to offend or hurt anyone with anything I say!!!
I've never had a close friend or family member with bipolar, so it was interesting for me to see it first with just her behavior (before they named it). I figured it was manic, but (duh) didn't really have it in my head as bipolar.
The interesting part to me was the daughter's description of her mom when depressed; a lot more extreme than what I had imagined. Also, interesting that the mom was going too fast to think about bringing a coat, etc. (commonsense type things).
I was also curious that the daughter said she wouldn't take her meds, and the ER solution was meds (depakote). I thought the mom could have been admitted to the psych ward for a couple of days, then her daughter could visit, mom would be provided meals, mom could be supervised for meds until she was stable, etc. But, maybe that's not what psych wards are like. The psych wards I've visited have been pretty ok places, but the people I visited were on the up side, so maybe I missed the down side I've heard tell of on this board.
My last thought (for now) about the show was that I hope all the bipolar folks out there remember not to reveal anything to potential employers. If I were a potential employer, equally ignorant as me, I'd be thinking I would not want to hire someone who had bipolar disorder because even if they were ok on meds, they might stop taking them.
Don't attack me! I'm writing about my reactions about a "disorder" I don't know much about!!!
Shar
Posted by judy1 on November 18, 2000, at 11:01:22
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field-PS, posted by Noa on November 17, 2000, at 16:20:52
Hi Noa,
Actually it made me cry, maybe too much identification going on. I even have my "manic" clothes- red dresses, sweaters, etc. Shar, she couldn't be put into a psych ward because she wasn't a danger to anyone or herself, the most they could do was offer meds. I think she portrayed that place that people with bipolar disorder love, and that's why we stop meds. I hope you are well- Judy
Posted by shellie on November 18, 2000, at 11:40:32
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field » Noa, posted by judy1 on November 18, 2000, at 11:01:22
Hi Judy. I finally watched ER last night (taped). I really didn't like the presentation because the meds were presented as an all or nothing option, rather than as a process of adjustment. Like there is no way to be creative if you are using medication to control bipolar disorder. Obviously you are much closer and more knowledgeable about this than me. Is this the way it feels to you--all or nothing?
If this question is too personal, I apologize for asking it, and only wish for a reponse if you feel comfortable.Shar, I thought your point about the depression was a good one. I had a next door neighbor years ago who was bipolar, and when I first met her she was unable to get out of her bed and totally suicidal. I also had forgetten how horrible the depressions can be for bipolar disorder until that was mentioned on the show, and I remembered her.
Shellie
Posted by judy1 on November 18, 2000, at 12:23:53
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field » judy1, posted by shellie on November 18, 2000, at 11:40:32
Hi Shellie,
I guess that is how it feels to me when it comes to meds- an all or nothing type of thing. Right now I feel incredibly dull and quite honestly miss being hypomanic, not manic- that's psychotic time and feels horrible. I know that some people have had success with titrating lithium to achieve a creative state, at least that is what I have read, and I imagine if someone felt like that they wouldn't be posting here. And yes, that is exactly how I feel with my depressions- totally nonfunctional, suicidal and almost always have auditory hallucinations. Mark wrote a very accurate portrayal of the difficulty of being compliant with meds- I think it was a response to the woman looking for help for her husband. Take care, Judy
Posted by Noa on November 18, 2000, at 13:28:35
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field on ER, posted by shar on November 17, 2000, at 21:24:22
Interesting about the idea of admitting her to the psych unit. It hadn't occurred to me, actually. Now that you mention it, though, it could have been a great way to deal with the issue of not having insurance coverage, etc.
Posted by Noa on November 18, 2000, at 13:31:32
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field » judy1, posted by shellie on November 18, 2000, at 11:40:32
I wondered if the med vs. creativity thing would be misleading. I saw it as part of the character's feeelings aobut the meds and I have heard people who say they feel constricted on meds, so it seemed real to me (tho I don't have 1st hand experience of mania/hypomania).
How did this play with those of you who have had these expereinces?
Another thing I wonder--was it realistic how she switched from mania to depression at the end?
Posted by shellie on November 18, 2000, at 13:54:42
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field » shellie, posted by judy1 on November 18, 2000, at 12:23:53
Thanks, Judy, for answering and referring me to the other post. I'm sorry that you have to experience that dullness. I guess the only reassurance I can offer is that many of the drugs I've been researching for my major depression are being studied on bipolar disorder also--if fact that's usually the first subject group. So it seems like lots of money is being put into the research for that disorder and new treatments will be continually tested and approved. (And, I also know, that is little consulation for how you feel now).Thanks again, Shellie
Posted by judy1 on November 18, 2000, at 15:09:25
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field, posted by Noa on November 18, 2000, at 13:31:32
Another thing I wonder--was it realistic how she switched from mania to depression at the end?
I thought it was very realistic, Noa. I have a pattern of DMI- a severe depression where I awaken in a hypo/manic state, then followed by a 'well' interval, which lately has been short. Some people go MDI (manic then depressed). When I am clinically manic, I have periods of depression breaking through, almost a mixed state- maybe that is what was happening to the character on the show. In retrospect, I'm glad that you and Shar and Shellie watched this. I always worry that people think that those suffering from bipolar disorder are violent, when in fact that is the minority. Thank you for starting this thread. Take care, Judy
Posted by ksvt on November 18, 2000, at 17:06:24
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field » Noa, posted by judy1 on November 18, 2000, at 15:09:25
>I thought Sally Field was perfectly cast. I've never been a big fan because she always seemed a little too on edge, but that is what is obviously called for in this part. It was interesting to see how Abby dodged her, and how much the mother laid guilt on her. This is one of only about 2 TV shows that i watch on a regular basis. I like it although I think this year they have had too much of major proportions, happening to the major character. I think they could tone it down a bit a still be able to address character development issues. What's been going on lately just stretches the limits of reality too much - not that things like this don't happen, but that they don't happen to people like this so often. Does anyone else agree with this? ksvt
Another thing I wonder--was it realistic how she switched from mania to depression at the end?
>
> I thought it was very realistic, Noa. I have a pattern of DMI- a severe depression where I awaken in a hypo/manic state, then followed by a 'well' interval, which lately has been short. Some people go MDI (manic then depressed). When I am clinically manic, I have periods of depression breaking through, almost a mixed state- maybe that is what was happening to the character on the show. In retrospect, I'm glad that you and Shar and Shellie watched this. I always worry that people think that those suffering from bipolar disorder are violent, when in fact that is the minority. Thank you for starting this thread. Take care, Judy
Posted by shellie on November 19, 2000, at 9:02:03
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field, posted by ksvt on November 18, 2000, at 17:06:24
Hey ksvt, this is the second time this morning I am agreeing with you!
I also only watch two shows, ER and The Practice, (plus an occasional sixty minutes or dateline). The Practise is by far my favorite. I think ER is getting to be basically another soap opera. I don't expect TV to be realistic, but I agree that having each character in major crisis gives no time for the character development we saw, for example, between Mark and his father, and bringing into it Lizzie and it's impact on their relationship.
I had taped Thursday night's show and actually stopped it for a while and did something else, because it was just too depressing to take in all at once. In one hour, Sally Fields shows up, Peter's nephew dies violently, a teenager shows her abuse, then to top it off Lizzie finds out she has perhaps made a fatal error in her attempt to get away for the weekend. (Oh, yes, and the adoption issue, about which we given only as much insight as "I can't keep the baby").
I rarely like a show more than a couple of years, it always seems like to keep people involved, they add more and more crises and more and more cameo appearances (although I think Sally Field will be around for at least a few shows, if not more). Which means, of course, that Abby's life will be crisis oriented.
In general I like law shows better; since the cases can go on over weeks (unlike patients in an ER), there is more potential to develop better characters. Plus law in general is more interesting to me than medicine.
THE END (of my opinions for today)
shellie
Posted by ksvt on November 19, 2000, at 10:12:03
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field, posted by shellie on November 19, 2000, at 9:02:03
> My other show is West Wing which I probably like because I only just started watching it this fall. You stated ER's problems much better than I did. It's too sensationalist, and i really do miss the kind of thing they did with Mark and his dad last year. I've only seen The Practice once. Unlike you, I really can't watch law shows. ksvt
Hey ksvt, this is the second time this morning I am agreeing with you!
>
> I also only watch two shows, ER and The Practice, (plus an occasional sixty minutes or dateline). The Practise is by far my favorite. I think ER is getting to be basically another soap opera. I don't expect TV to be realistic, but I agree that having each character in major crisis gives no time for the character development we saw, for example, between Mark and his father, and bringing into it Lizzie and it's impact on their relationship.
>
> I had taped Thursday night's show and actually stopped it for a while and did something else, because it was just too depressing to take in all at once. In one hour, Sally Fields shows up, Peter's nephew dies violently, a teenager shows her abuse, then to top it off Lizzie finds out she has perhaps made a fatal error in her attempt to get away for the weekend. (Oh, yes, and the adoption issue, about which we given only as much insight as "I can't keep the baby").
>
> I rarely like a show more than a couple of years, it always seems like to keep people involved, they add more and more crises and more and more cameo appearances (although I think Sally Field will be around for at least a few shows, if not more). Which means, of course, that Abby's life will be crisis oriented.
>
> In general I like law shows better; since the cases can go on over weeks (unlike patients in an ER), there is more potential to develop better characters. Plus law in general is more interesting to me than medicine.
>
> THE END (of my opinions for today)
> shellie
Posted by Noa on November 20, 2000, at 14:28:26
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field » Noa, posted by judy1 on November 18, 2000, at 15:09:25
Thanks Judy.
What does the "I" stand for in DMI?
I guess, too that the character on ER could have been in hypomanic-manic state for a while, leading up to her walking out on her job and coming to Chicago, and the crisis precipitated by how she was received by her daughter, etc. seems plausible as a trigger for a precipitous switch to agitation and then depression. But this is my impression as someone who is not that familiar with BP.
Thanks for educating us, Judy. I appreciate it.
Posted by Noa on November 20, 2000, at 14:34:33
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field, posted by ksvt on November 18, 2000, at 17:06:24
K-
I agree about how sensationalist some of the episodes are becoming. This seems to be a pattern in successful shows--they have to do more and more to keep people's attention over the years, because otherwise it feels like "been there, done that", although I personally agree with you that more subtlety, more character development, etc., would be just fine.I used to love Northern Exposure, but at a certain point, I felt it had done what it could do and needed to end. In the last year, it got a bit bizarre, trying to come up with new stuff. Same with Thirtysomething, St. Elsewhere (although that was always somewhat bizarre anyway) and Hill Street Blues.
Do you remember Sisters? That show, from the beginning, always had the feel of everything bad happening to these people over and over again (soap opera-ish, I guess). Where ER is now, I feel, is at the point of doing that only because it has run out of interesting material. I think it happens with all shows.
Posted by Chris A. on November 24, 2000, at 1:49:18
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field, posted by Noa on November 20, 2000, at 14:34:33
I felt hurt and depressed after watching Sally Fields in what has deteriorated into what others here have accurately called a soap. The bipolar part hit a bit too close to home. Meds as the "sure quick fix" invoked an angry response in me. Not everyone who is unfortunate enough to have bipolar is the same. For some of us lithium simply does not work at all. For many of us the med trials have been endless and finding the right combination takes a lot of determination and patience and carries a high price tag financially. Many of us have not a creative bone in our body. I feel for those who do not have the strong family support that I have. Even so, it can be taxing on loved ones. I always fear for my children and how my illness affects them. Being rejected HURTS. Many of us suffer from rejection sensitivity. I fear even when I'm feeling slightly good that there might be an element of obnoxiousness or that I might offend others. I'ts hard to not be taken seriously because I am bipolar. "Get on the bus, you worthless piece of trash. Get out of my life. I can't take your illness." I would rather have pancreatic cancer (no, I didn't say that). Who wouldn't jump on the subway tracks? If it weren't for my husband and the love, faith and hope that I find in God, suicide would be the only option. Even though it's still a soap (the only TV show I've watched on any regular basis for a long time), there was a bit on redemption tonight. People with bipolar can be helpful. We do have strengths. We are not necessarily "off the wall." Many of us hold professional degrees. Many are fairly decent parents. Many contribute to mankind professionally, as volunteers and in other ways. Stereotypical portrayals always are going to be a bit wanting. Yes, there was some education. A few short bits on the screen of drama certainly are going to leave huge gaps in that education and understanding. Unfortunately the protrayal of Sally Field's crash is realistic, at least for me. How many times have I heard the comment "but you seemed to be doing fine an hour ago." For me feeling good is a bit scary because of the inevitable crash. Fortunately this fall has been a bit smoother, but I am afraid to say it. Having a good psychiatrist, a responsive therapist and a wellness plan also help. A team approach is essential. Loners don't make out to well with this disease, particularly if they are treatment resistant. For some people lithium is the quick fix and there lives are somewhat 'normal', whatever that is.
Forgive me for rambling. I have missed you all even though I was never able to post frequently or regularly. There is so much to say, but my ability to write has deteriorated.Blessings,
Chris A.
Posted by Noa on November 24, 2000, at 11:46:09
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field, posted by Chris A. on November 24, 2000, at 1:49:18
> > > > >For me feeling good is a bit scary because of the
inevitable crash. Fortunately this fall has been a bit smoother, but I am afraid to say it.Chris, This resonates with me, big time. I don't have bipolar, but I have recurrent depression, and after some bad episodes, when I finally came to realize my depression was chronic/recurrent (before I kept thinking I was "done" with it at the end of each episode), I started to develop horrible anxiety about feeling better. I was afraid of feeling better, because if I started to hope and trust in the better mood, I would just be that much more disappointed--no, devastated!--if/when I crashed again. I became vigilant about the return of any depressed feelings. I have calmed down some, and yes, some depression has seeped in, but I haven't "crashed" because I am learning to tolerate some variation, some depressed times, without it having to mean complete descent into hell. But it is still hard work, to fend off the feeling of impending doom, of having to hold tight to be vigilant for the beast's return, to try not to catastrophize every little downturn. It is work, to learn to enjoy the good days without being afraid to trust in any good feelings. And, it is a process of grieving, too.
I didn't see ER last night. I assume from your post that they did continue the story about the Sally Field character. I wish I had seen it.
What you wrote touched me. You express the tragedy so well.
I was especially touched by what you said about the self-doubt that stays with you-- not knowing how you are coming across to people. The recurrence of my depression leaves me with a lot of self doubt---I often am not sure I can trust my self, my judgment, my feelings. I would think it might be all the moreso with bipolar, because of the range of emotions and the effect on ones life.
I was also touched by your reminder that having bipolar can come without the stereotypical "gifts" of artistic talent, etc. What a way to wound the wounded--if we perpetuate the myth that there is, for everyone, a "plus" side to a devastating illness, then those of us without that "plus" feel all the more wounded. Not every autistic person is a savant--in fact most are not. But publicity about the savant phenomenon catches the interest of the public. It is glamourous, somehow.
I think what you are saying is that glamour beside the point. Glamour is a myth. It may exist for some, but not for all.
I am so glad to hear you are doing somewhat better, Chris. I have followed some of your posts over time and know you have been through a lot, and tried different things to get your illness under control. I admire your perseverence.
Posted by Chris A. on November 24, 2000, at 21:37:01
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field » Chris A., posted by Noa on November 24, 2000, at 11:46:09
Thanks, Noa. Someone took me seriously for a change :)! You can think and write quite well. Your compassion and knowledge of "having been there" shine through.
One of my focuses recently has been on my own version of a wellness plan. Topping the list for me are sleep and my relationship with God. I was able to get some good sleep this afternoon, which was a relief. Not Sleeping always leads to my engine revving up faster and faster. It snowballs until I am extremely irritable and agitated and in a horrible mixed state, suicidal, etc. Sleeping puts the brakes on. I can just see it now: "Boss, I need a bit of shut eye, actually am feeling sleepy for the first time in days. Gotta go now!" I often wish I hadn't given up my professional life to be a full time sahm (stay at home Mom), but there are advantages other than the obvious. When my next one leaves for college I want to return to work at least part time at an acute treatment center for those with brain disorders within walking distance of my home. My education and experience suit me perfectly for the job, but I will have to tell them that I cannot work nights, period. Focusing on God, praying, meditating, and studying gives me hope and a sense of eternal purpose - that this is not all in vain.
How did your Thanksgiving plans go? (guess I should look at other threads). As an ER addict I couldn't pass this one up! Must admit I hadn't even made it to babble for some time - too busy to even check my e-mail. We had a great Thanksgiving - a lot to be thankful for. I was a bit teary eyed, realizing that this is the first time our almost twenty year old hasn't been with us. He's on the phone right now from Iwakuni, Japan. Fortunately he's doing ok - looking forward to a ski trip and Mom has to get his gear (fortunately not his skis) in the mail stat. Skiing in Japan is not quite like it is in Colorado, but anything will do when you're going through withdrawal. He went indoor snow boarding - thought the place was too small! Am I ever skiing out of bounds.Blessings,
Chris A.
Posted by Snowie on November 25, 2000, at 8:15:14
In reply to Re:Bipolar Disorder as portrayed by Sally Field » Noa, posted by Chris A. on November 24, 2000, at 21:37:01
A friend learned of a site aptly called "Harbor of Refuge" which is a "Peer to Peer Support for People with Bipolar disorder and those that care about them." She likes this site, so I thought I would pass it along to anybody who has an interest. I may join just to learn more about this disorder, since both my father and my oldest sister are bipolar.
http://www.harbor-of-refuge.org/
Snowie
Posted by Chris A. on November 25, 2000, at 14:47:15
In reply to Harbor of Refuge, posted by Snowie on November 25, 2000, at 8:15:14
Thanks, Snowie
> A friend learned of a site aptly called "Harbor of Refuge" which is a "Peer to Peer Support for People with Bipolar disorder and those that care about them." She likes this site, so I thought I would pass it along to anybody who has an interest. I may join just to learn more about this disorder, since both my father and my oldest sister are bipolar.
>
> http://www.harbor-of-refuge.org/
>
> Snowie
Posted by S. Howard on December 1, 2000, at 21:57:25
In reply to Harbor of Refuge, posted by Snowie on November 25, 2000, at 8:15:14
In the first place - Harbor of Refuge - the website is beautiful, wonderful graphics.
I just thought it was a little unusual that
chatroom members were banned for discussing
cutting or self mutilation, alcohol or drug abuse,
drinking with medication, suicide or suicide attempts, and probably some other stuff I can't remember. This is truely the white-tie ball of bipolar chats! I didn't even get in the door.
-Gracie
Posted by Emmanuela on December 1, 2000, at 23:49:09
In reply to Re: Harbor of Refuge, posted by S. Howard on December 1, 2000, at 21:57:25
Gracie - you can talk to me of naughty things anytime you want to....
E
Posted by Alexandria on May 9, 2001, at 22:20:26
In reply to Re: Harbor of Refuge, posted by S. Howard on December 1, 2000, at 21:57:25
You're right! They don't allow discussions about
the things that some people experience or have
experienced with their illness (bipolar disorder).
They allow you to talk about depression and mania,
what's going on in your personal life, etc. but if you
want to talk about past drug abuse/recovery...
suicidal attempts you've made, suicidal ideations,
self injury, etc. you are kicked out and usually
banned. Also you're not allowed to send PM's to
others (private message/whisper)!
You can't breathe and be yourself in there! It's
terrible! If someone is suseptible to being the
type to be easily influenced by others then don't
go here...you have to have lots of strength to get
away from this place...it's like a cult. : (
They're as bad as another place called 'The Port"
This information isn't to be mean to anyone, I'm
just trying to protect you all from being hurt.
There are bad people and bad places on the net just
like there is in "the offline world"....
--Alexandria---> In the first place - Harbor of Refuge - the website is beautiful, wonderful graphics.
> I just thought it was a little unusual that
> chatroom members were banned for discussing
> cutting or self mutilation, alcohol or drug abuse,
> drinking with medication, suicide or suicide attempts, and probably some other stuff I can't remember. This is truely the white-tie ball of bipolar chats! I didn't even get in the door.
> -Gracie
This is the end of the thread.
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