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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 13:34:34
In reply to Re: please be civil » University, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2005, at 10:32:43
Thank you I was wondering whether you would step in on my behalf, and you did, well, that was lovely.
Posted by University on January 23, 2005, at 14:04:18
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 13:34:34
But Dr. Bob, didn't you see what she wrote in reply to my original message? Surely, it qualifies as "likely" to offend, no?
Anyway, before you chimed in, Susan and I had already become friendly with each other (in my opinion). I think she's funny and I told her so. That's partly why I felt comfortable characterizing her reply to me as boorish--because it was, in my opinion, rather, well, abrupt and insensitive.
Anyway, boors are nice--they have nice faces, haven't they? So "boorish" isn't nec. pejorative anyway... Just my $.02
JM
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 14:37:30
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by University on January 23, 2005, at 14:04:18
> But Dr. Bob, didn't you see what she wrote in reply to my original message? Surely, it qualifies as "likely" to offend, no?
Likely to offend how? Im afraid I don't see it. If you felt offended it would have been more appropriate to have told her how you had taken it and have given her a chance to clarify her intention.
> Anyway, before you chimed in, Susan and I had already become friendly with each other (in my opinion). I think she's funny and I told her so.
Yeah, but haven't you seen you hurt her from her response to what you said?
> it was, in my opinion, rather, well, abrupt and insensitive.
Ouch, again.
> Anyway, boors are nice--they have nice faces, haven't they? So "boorish" isn't nec. pejorative anyway... Just my $.02
That would be a boar not a boor.
Bit like an *ss and an *rse.Have to be careful with animal words around here...
Posted by University on January 23, 2005, at 15:42:59
In reply to Re: please be civil » University, posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 14:37:30
> > But Dr. Bob, didn't you see what she wrote in reply to my original message? Surely, it qualifies as "likely" to offend, no?
>
> Likely to offend how? Im afraid I don't see it. If you felt offended it would have been more appropriate to have told her how you had taken it and have given her a chance to clarify her intention.
>
> > Anyway, before you chimed in, Susan and I had already become friendly with each other (in my opinion). I think she's funny and I told her so.
>
> Yeah, but haven't you seen you hurt her from her response to what you said?
>
> > it was, in my opinion, rather, well, abrupt and insensitive.
>
> Ouch, again.
>
> > Anyway, boors are nice--they have nice faces, haven't they? So "boorish" isn't nec. pejorative anyway... Just my $.02
>
> That would be a boar not a boor.
> Bit like an *ss and an *rse.
>
> Have to be careful with animal words around here...
>
>
well, "boor" can mean "peasant," and peasants can have nice faces... but i do stand corrected 'cos i was thinking of a boar :)ANYWAY, i was a little offended by Susan's misreading of my post--at least i thought it was a mis-read (not making the "in love" and "love" distinction, then labeling me as not ready, etc. but then i lightened up and called her POST boorish (not her) and tried to make light of it all.
so, but can we get back to the original post? or does everyone dislike me now :(
signed,
boorish in berkeley
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 18:29:21
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by University on January 23, 2005, at 15:42:59
> ANYWAY, i was a little offended by Susan's misreading of my post--at least i thought it was a mis-read (not making the "in love" and "love" distinction, then labeling me as not ready, etc. but then i lightened up and called her POST boorish (not her) and tried to make light of it all.
Ah. I am afraid the civility rules are no joke around here. I think the 'misreading' was inadvertant. She went on to say that she was talking about *her* life anyway.
I think that the point was that you really did offend her. That isn't a joke. Not to me anyway. If I hurt someone I try to understand how I hurt them to prevent a recurrance and I apologise for having hurt them (whether I understand or not). But I guess that is just me.
> so, but can we get back to the original post? or does everyone dislike me now :(
I don't dislike ya, but I have to admit I am slightly wary... Someone else may want to babble with you...
Posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 18:33:32
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by University on January 23, 2005, at 14:04:18
Oh dear, well I didn't know we were friends, if I had I probably wouldn't have overreacted. Now, the other thing, the thing about my post that garnered your response, I was just wondering whether you read the last line in it, where I said that it was me I was talking about?
Posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 18:40:44
In reply to Re: please be civil » University, posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 18:29:21
It's okay, if you're referring to me babbling University, alexandra, I can talk to her here, I think. I notice my original post is unavailable as a link right now, so obviously the whole thing is under review by DB or someone under his tutelage or however that morass works. I wouldn't be surprised if I were blocked again, soon, because I feel like I'm triggering too many people or something, or maybe it's just me, I feel the blade of doom ever hanging over me here on Babble these days.
In any case, I'm going to give University the benefit of the doubt, and believe that she honestly either did not read the last line of the post, or when she did, it did a zippo over her head. It's okay. It's all right. Please don't block anybody, Dr. Bob... it's really really painful.
Posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 18:55:05
In reply to Re: Too bad to stay, too good to leave » University, posted by Susan47 on January 21, 2005, at 13:47:03
Also, it's obvious (and my original post IS still there, above but it didn't work as a link from this portion of the board, wierd) it's obvious University isn't familiar with my style of writing, which is using "you" in the general sense, meaning really, me or you or they or anybody, and I know that's sloppy of me but it's just the way I am.
Posted by jujube on January 23, 2005, at 19:03:08
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 18:40:44
I really never visit this board, but for some reason ended up here today. I read your post Susan, and I did not find it in the least "boorish" or harsh, and I can be an extremely sensitive, timid and easily hurt person. It was to the point, which is nothing to be ashamed of. I can't see any reason why you would be blocked. Don't be hard on yourself. You have done nothing wrong as far as I am concerned.
> It's okay, if you're referring to me babbling University, alexandra, I can talk to her here, I think. I notice my original post is unavailable as a link right now, so obviously the whole thing is under review by DB or someone under his tutelage or however that morass works. I wouldn't be surprised if I were blocked again, soon, because I feel like I'm triggering too many people or something, or maybe it's just me, I feel the blade of doom ever hanging over me here on Babble these days.
> In any case, I'm going to give University the benefit of the doubt, and believe that she honestly either did not read the last line of the post, or when she did, it did a zippo over her head. It's okay. It's all right. Please don't block anybody, Dr. Bob... it's really really painful.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 21:03:12
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 18:40:44
By babbling I mean just what we are doing now :-)
Don't you dare go getting yourself blocked again!
You did really well here.
You did.
Posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 22:15:24
In reply to Re: please be civil » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 21:03:12
I can feel it, that I'm doing much, much better, aren't I. Last summer I was wildchild, embarrassingly so. Even at Christmas time, I still had very little understanding, but now something really wierd and wonderful's happening to me, I don't know if we have souls but if we do it's a soul-level thing.
Posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 22:16:22
In reply to Re: please be civil » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 21:03:12
I am quite happy with the way I said that. Thanks.
Posted by University on January 24, 2005, at 11:25:15
In reply to Please, no pragmatism to above, anybody., posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 22:16:22
Susan:
Your first post, as I recall, didn't indicate you were talking about yourself--you stated that after I said "thanks--you obviously have a great handle on me..." etc. So I just thought that you were landing all over me with "your not ready...", etc., without really reading my post. But after your post where you said you'd been referring to your self, I thought it was funny, and I said so--before I used the B-ish word. I thought that that made it clear it was all in fun. My bad. I'm sorry.
Oh, and by the way, I'm actually *male*, Alexandria, FYI :)
JM
Posted by Susan47 on January 24, 2005, at 13:26:16
In reply to You're right--it's gone..., posted by University on January 24, 2005, at 11:25:15
Actually, it is still there, right underneath yours.
Too funny, that you're male and I assumed you were female. Sorry.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 24, 2005, at 13:58:53
In reply to You're right--it's gone..., posted by University on January 24, 2005, at 11:25:15
> Oh, and by the way, I'm actually *male*, Alexandria, FYI :)
I apologise.
Everyone is Female unless they specifiy otherwise.
Womens lib, rah rah.
Posted by university on January 24, 2005, at 14:22:36
In reply to Re: You're right--it's gone... » University, posted by Susan47 on January 24, 2005, at 13:26:16
> Actually, it is still there, right underneath yours.
> Too funny, that you're male and I assumed you were female. Sorry.
No big deal. I don't see your post, however. But whatever--I don't want to nit-pick anymore. All I wanted in the first place was to hear about how someone in my situation may have dealt with it...blah blah blah
Posted by university on January 24, 2005, at 14:28:40
In reply to Re: Too bad to stay, too good to leave » University, posted by Susan47 on January 21, 2005, at 13:47:03
This response from Susan:
********
You said you love him very, very much ... then you said you don't think you ever really did...so you're confused...but more than that you're really scared if you're honest with how you feel that you'll have to tell him, and then you'll lose him, and if that happens, which of course it probably would because he wants to be loved, too, then you'll be really really depressed and needy afterwards which will be horrible for you and you might end up in ANOTHER not too great relationship because you know there's stuff, (Ssshhh, issues, ssshhhh) you have to deal with before you really can have a healthy fabulous LOVING relationship with a guy and Damn it you're not READY to deal with any of that stuff ....That's my story, anyway, and I'm stickin' to it ...
***********
Is what, when I read it as a reply to my sincere problem, unsettling, etc. It @!#$% me off, to be honest, because to me, it read as if a total stranger was writing "YOU'RE not ready, damn it! You're confused! etc.Does anyone here understand why I might have felt that way? Geez. I know I said I didn't care about this matter anymore, but after perusing all of the posts in defense of Susan, I just starting thinking my god, am I crazier than I thought, or can nobody here understand why I might've been a bit chuffed???
Posted by university on January 24, 2005, at 14:39:18
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Susan47 on January 23, 2005, at 18:40:44
> It's okay, if you're referring to me babbling University, alexandra, I can talk to her here, I think. I notice my original post is unavailable as a link right now, so obviously the whole thing is under review by DB or someone under his tutelage or however that morass works. I wouldn't be surprised if I were blocked again, soon, because I feel like I'm triggering too many people or something, or maybe it's just me, I feel the blade of doom ever hanging over me here on Babble these days.
> In any case, I'm going to give University the benefit of the doubt, and believe that she honestly either did not read the last line of the post, or when she did, it did a zippo over her head. It's okay. It's all right. Please don't block anybody, Dr. Bob... it's really really painful.If you're talking about the "That's my story...and I'm sticking with it" line, well, to me that read like "that's what I think about it and I won't change my mind" or something like that. Also, its location toward the end--and that it was a "cliche", catch-all type of phrase (didn't want to write "cliche" for fear I'll insult someone--but I can't think of anything else right now)--made it look like it was a "signature" that perhaps the poster always placed after posts.
In any case, her reply seemed super rude, condescending, etc., --to me--when I perceived it that way. That's all.
Peace,
JM
Posted by alexandra_k on January 24, 2005, at 20:05:50
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by university on January 24, 2005, at 14:39:18
> If you're talking about the "That's my story...and I'm sticking with it" line, well, to me that read like "that's what I think about it and I won't change my mind" or something like that.
Ah, how about "That's my (Susan's) life story and I am sticking to it (ie carrying on in the same way) because I have (shhh issues shh).
With the possible implication that this may paralell your situation.
Thats how I read it, but then I am familiar with Susan's style.
We don't do signatures here (yet) thank god.
Are you perhaps a little upset to think that maybe your situation indicates that you do have further issues around not being with someone?
Posted by university on January 25, 2005, at 10:44:42
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by alexandra_k on January 24, 2005, at 20:05:50
> > If you're talking about the "That's my story...and I'm sticking with it" line, well, to me that read like "that's what I think about it and I won't change my mind" or something like that.
>
> Ah, how about "That's my (Susan's) life story and I am sticking to it (ie carrying on in the same way) because I have (shhh issues shh).
>
> With the possible implication that this may paralell your situation.
>
> Thats how I read it, but then I am familiar with Susan's style.
>
> We don't do signatures here (yet) thank god.
>
> Are you perhaps a little upset to think that maybe your situation indicates that you do have further issues around not being with someone?Absolutely.
Incidentally, I'd be interested in chatting with you about your experience, since it's so ostensibly similar to mine--if you want to :)
I am going back to therapy, which will help a lot, I think. Basically, I'm with someone I love so, so much. But I'm not attracted to him "that" way--and we have so very little in common. And I'm racked with guilt 'cause he's so good, tender-hearted, etc. Then I feel worse 'cause I feel like I ought to just be able to love him--that I can't makes me feel even more F'd up and guilty and stuff. And the longer I stay, the worse it all gets, I think. Argh.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2005, at 21:17:08
In reply to OK, to clarify once and for all..., posted by university on January 24, 2005, at 14:28:40
> > there's stuff ... you have to deal with before you really can have a healthy fabulous LOVING relationship with a guy and Damn it you're not READY
>
> Is what, when I read it as a reply to my sincere problem, unsettling, etc. It @!#$% me off, to be honest, because to me, it read as if a total stranger was writing "YOU'RE not ready, damn it! You're confused! etc.You have a point there, sorry about that.
> her reply seemed super rude, condescending, etc.
Still, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on January 26, 2005, at 1:22:35
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by university on January 25, 2005, at 10:44:42
Ok, peace all round???
Now: your issue. Hmm.
I shall tell you about my experience and you be the judge of similarities / differences.
I loved my partner very much. I had a lot of respect for them. They would have given me everything they had and they actually did give up rather a lot to be with me. I was not in love with them though. Didn't want to do any of "that" stuff. I felt really guilty that they had given me everything (emotionally and materially) and yet I didn't have "those" feelings.
So: Two options.
1) You stay. But if you don't feel that way about them I dare say you won't come to feel that way about them. Either (a) you tell them about your true feelings or (b) you do not. If you tell them then what? They will be upset and probably leave. If you do not then more guilt.
2) You leave. Then there is the matter of the big wide world.
I chose 1b. I fell into severe depression. I don't think that would be the case for everyone but that was the case for me.
I wish to god I had the courage to go 2. Or at least tell them the truth. Would have saved both of us from a lot more pain at the end of the day. But I am a coward :-(
I can't advise you.
I think you probably know what you have to do within your self.Life is hard sometimes.
Posted by dreamseeker on February 5, 2005, at 14:01:15
In reply to Too bad to stay, too good to leave, posted by University on January 21, 2005, at 4:11:13
When I read your thread, it took me back 20 years. I felt the same way you did about my husband, which I "love" but am not in Love with. There is a distiction. We can love someone and not be sexually attracted. I just left my husband of 20 years because of the same problem. I waited that long because I didn't want to hurt him. Believe me it hurts a lot more later and there is NEVER a good time to do it, either.
Posted by University on February 5, 2005, at 14:40:59
In reply to Re: Too bad to stay, too good to leave, posted by dreamseeker on February 5, 2005, at 14:01:15
> When I read your thread, it took me back 20 years. I felt the same way you did about my husband, which I "love" but am not in Love with. There is a distiction. We can love someone and not be sexually attracted. I just left my husband of 20 years because of the same problem. I waited that long because I didn't want to hurt him. Believe me it hurts a lot more later and there is NEVER a good time to do it, either.
Wow. I hope you're O.K.--I know all too well how much it hurts to be on your side of the situation. It's a special kind of hurt, too, because there is a tendency for everyone--you, your mate, your friends, your family--to feel NO sympathy for you. Moreover, you're seen as the "bad" one; the one who ruined it, the one who deceived, etc. etc. Anyway, those are all of the feelings I ether feel now or anticipate feeling. I hope you don't fall into this trap.
Remember that, although you weren't perfect, your husband is an adult, and at least half of the "responsibilty" for making the relationship work--or ending it--was his.
Did you ever cheat on him? I'm so tempted to, but I haven't and won't. I feel guilty enough as it is :( He's one of those ultra-kind, child-like, simple (not simple-minded), and all around good guys, which makes all of this, of course, even more difficult. Plus, he'd be content to stay the way we are (not a lot of passion, sex, ect. --at least on my end) indefinitely. That's part of his simplicity, I think.
Over 20 years, weren't there times it was obvious to him that you weren't in love with him?
I'd love talk to you more about it if you'd like; I really empathize and sympathize! And I presume you're probably in at least a bit of emotional turmoil right now--so talking always helps :)
In any event, thank you for sharing your exp. with me--I really appreciate it ANd your advice.
JM
Posted by University on February 5, 2005, at 14:49:37
In reply to To bad to stay, too good to leave » university, posted by alexandra_k on January 26, 2005, at 1:22:35
Hi Alex (may I call you that?)
Yes--peace. I'm sorry--to everyone--if my posts read abrasively. :(
And yes, your situation is similar to mine, but I'm hoping I don't choose--deliberately or passively--1a. And it's just the choice I'd usually end up in because I wouldn't really have to make a choice. I'd feel as if I wasn't hurting my boyfriend, I wasn't losing him, I wasn't responsible for ending the relationship, etc. etc. Then I'd just "become" depressed, and that alone would probably result in losing him, which would, of course, exacerbate the depression...
I do feel like I'm getting my bearings about it, and working up the chutzpah to talk. And I HAVE tried to talk about it with him in the past--but it always stalemated...
And even if being "in love" is an illusion, it's clear to me that, in any case, I don't feel the deep, sexual, "romatic" feelings of love that he does for me. That alone is reason enough for me to end it--if for only his sake! But for mine, too. As you know, it hurts to be on "our" side of this type of relationship problem, too. I know it must suck to be on the other end, but I'm having no picnic either :(
Thanks again for your posts :)
JM
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