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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 15, 2011, at 17:50:47
How do you deal with it?
Has anything helped?
Where did it come from?
Any thoughts welcome
Posted by sigismund on April 15, 2011, at 18:00:17
In reply to Anyone with social anxiety, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 15, 2011, at 17:50:47
Nothing legal helped of course, except alcohol and gapapentin and the rest of that sort of nonsense.
Easily the most effective thing is avoidance.
Heaps of things are best avoided, humans in particular.
I'm sure you will find someone to say 'Feel the fear and do it anyway. Fake it till you make it.' I feel more like 'Do you really need this?'
It may depend of the thing that makes one anxious. Parties make me anxious. I no longer feel bad about this. I think it says I can't stand that kind of communication. So perhaps the question is to do with what about the style of communication you encounter is making you anxious. Given the nature of humanity with all its complexity not to speak of evil, why shouldn't we be anxious?
Posted by sigismund on April 15, 2011, at 18:03:44
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety, posted by sigismund on April 15, 2011, at 18:00:17
Of course in your country amphetamine is considered appropriate treatment for whatever.
That is good for an hour or three.
Keep you up to speed with the nonsense and the lies, help you to process all that, and make sure no one can set any traps for you that you can't escape.
It may not be so helpful for paranoia of course.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 15, 2011, at 19:47:32
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety, posted by sigismund on April 15, 2011, at 18:00:17
Since I've been "feeling the fear and doing it anyway" for decades now, I feel safe in saying that has it's limits.
I haven't been desensitized much.
Posted by Tabitha on April 16, 2011, at 1:52:45
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » sigismund, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 15, 2011, at 19:47:32
I get a lot of mileage out of just reminding myself that
- So far it's never been as bad as my pre-event imagination thinks it will be
- My anxiety level diminishes a bit after the first hour or so
- There's a larger goal I'm pursuing by attending. I am choosing to endure a little anxiety (or a lot) for that goalPlus it really helped once I had a safe hobby to talk about, nothing embarrassing or controversial, and reasonably interesting to most folks. A sport, a hobby, something. That way I have something to go to when asked open-ended questions about what I've been doing or how was my weekend or something.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 16, 2011, at 12:02:07
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety, posted by Tabitha on April 16, 2011, at 1:52:45
Thanks tabitha, your post makes good sense :-)
Posted by wittgensteinz on April 16, 2011, at 13:22:48
In reply to Anyone with social anxiety, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 15, 2011, at 17:50:47
Yes I do and have had for as long as I can remember (age 3 or 4).
I think a big factor was the treatment I received as a child from my mother. She was highly critical and rejecting and seemed to feed off of any feelings I had of insecurity. I didn't receive much warmth or security from my parents growing up. My father is naturally a rather quiet and reserved person and I think I have some of that too. So... an introvert child combined with a highly critical/rejecting mother.
I still experience the same old problems again and again. Maybe I'm a little closer now to accepting that this will always be. I do grin and bear it and just force myself into situations I don't feel at all comfortable with but often that causes such distress I can't keep it up for long. I do seem to habituate if I can keep myself in a situation for long enough (depends a bit on the situation of course).
I still hate busy supermarkets and lecture theatres... oh and telephones (especially when they phone up wanting to sell something). I've stopped doing countless things because I couldn't handle the social interaction and avoidance is still my key coping strategy.
Then again I'm doing relatively well - studying in a second language (I'm the only 'foreigner' taking my program - so if that doesn't make a person feel like an outsider...) - trying to be more proactive in social situations (i.e. not leaving it up to friends always to take the initiative to arrange something). Taking some small well calculated risks now and again. My life is still rather under-peopled. One day I hope to be able to have a birthday party without worrying (a) no-one will turn up and (b) people will be shocked how few friends I have.
I wonder - has CBT helped anyone here with this? I've only ever done psychoanalytic psychotherapy and it's helped lift the depression and I'm managing a lot more in life than previously. I'm not convinced there is a quick/permanent fix for the anxiety. I think in my case it will always be there.
Happily I no longer hide under the table when people ring the doorbell! Those were the days!
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 16, 2011, at 18:13:31
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » sleepygirl2, posted by wittgensteinz on April 16, 2011, at 13:22:48
I am reading some CBT stuff at the moment. I've always been familiar with it. I've managed, I think thus far to some degree, because I have been able to evaluate my thoughts. It's a little annoying really.
What I can't get past is the "it is all my fault, I'm inferior, no one could like me", and things like that. I am also absolutely not allowed to make any mistakes whatsoever.My mother was very critical too, often rejecting, hurtful, volatile. My father was also mostly absent or involved in fighting with my mother.
I have been painfully shy for as long as I can remember. Of course, an environment like that didn't help me to manage it, and it just got worse, just had to rely on avoidance when I could.I'll see if I can try to challenge the thoughts.
Even my dreams have people hating me in them.
I wish the world felt safer. Then there is the idea of making a lot of it more comfortable for me. Maybe it'll be a combo, managing anxiety, changing my lifestyle/environment to allow for my sensitivities and challenging those "god, I really and utterly suck" thoughts. Something's got to change. I am just too anxious, too often. I don't want to just rely on meds.
I don't think I'll ever like parties, small get togethers can be okI'm glad you're out from under the table. I used to hide behind trees. Thanks for sharing what you did. It is helpful, and I really appreciate it. :-)
Posted by sigismund on April 16, 2011, at 19:05:03
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » wittgensteinz, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 16, 2011, at 18:13:31
> I am also absolutely not allowed to make any mistakes whatsoever.
Which is ridiculous. We make mistakes all the time. Even if we don't torment our children.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 16, 2011, at 19:44:39
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » sleepygirl2, posted by sigismund on April 16, 2011, at 19:05:03
I wish I could be at peace with making mistakes, or not even mistakes, even acting without complete assurance would be nice. I guess I wish I could feel good enough. I don't know how it is that people feel that way.
I judge myself mercilessly, but I can accept other people pretty well. I'm even generous.
I have to find my way out of this.
Thanks sig :-)
Posted by sigismund on April 16, 2011, at 20:39:10
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » sigismund, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 16, 2011, at 19:44:39
Look, I'm not flattering you when I say you are generous but in particular you are fair.
How do you feel about the fact that you have been colonised (so to speak) by an unforgiving force?
What can you do about it?
This is sounding like Alien. What would Sigourney do?
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 16, 2011, at 21:25:58
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » sleepygirl2, posted by sigismund on April 16, 2011, at 20:39:10
It's awful, this unforgiving force.
I don't feel safe outside of a close personal comfort zone. I expect people to hurt me, and they really have, in the past. People can be cruel. They didn't kill me, but somehow I am damaged.Sigourney would shave her head and use some major artillery. She's a liitle intense ;-)
What am I going to do about it?
Maybe treat myself the way I'd like others treated.
Posted by wittgensteinz on April 17, 2011, at 16:05:36
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » wittgensteinz, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 16, 2011, at 18:13:31
"it is all my fault, I'm inferior, no one could like me"
Yes... I could have written that about myself.
Also what you said about perfectionism - I live in terror of failing/messing up and each time I do I ruminate over it for ages. It makes life so difficult!While I know my thinking is faulty and I know there is nothing really that makes me unlikeable, it's hard to shift that belief the there's something fundamentally wrong with me. I just can't see how CBT would help change that - isn't it's basis on convincing yourself (training yourself) to think differently about yourself? Restructuring your beliefs? It just seems too superficial to reach those beliefs that are so firm and fixed and deep rooted - welded to the soul, so to speak.
I'm trying the 're-parenting' route. I'm not sure my therapist has succeeded yet. I trust him quite a bit, that's something at least but still ask him at least 2 or 3 times a month "are you sure you don't hate me?".
Witti
Posted by hyperfocus on April 17, 2011, at 18:33:51
In reply to Anyone with social anxiety, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 15, 2011, at 17:50:47
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 17, 2011, at 22:57:12
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » sleepygirl2, posted by wittgensteinz on April 17, 2011, at 16:05:36
> "it is all my fault, I'm inferior, no one could like me"
>
> Yes... I could have written that about myself.
> Also what you said about perfectionism - I live in terror of failing/messing up and each time I do I ruminate over it for ages. It makes life so difficult!it does, doesn't it?, makes it hard to take a step
> While I know my thinking is faulty and I know there is nothing really that makes me unlikeable, it's hard to shift that belief the there's something fundamentally wrong with me. I just can't see how CBT would help change that - isn't it's basis on convincing yourself (training yourself) to think differently about yourself? Restructuring your beliefs? It just seems too superficial to reach those beliefs that are so firm and fixed and deep rooted - welded to the soul, so to speak.yeah, it feels pretty damn hard wired
I'm not in CBT, it's something I'm reviewing though. If I can find something helpful, then I'll try to hold on to it. I've got to get a handle on my anxiety.
My ability to scrutinize my thoughts in the past (pre-therapy) allowed me to function to some degree, but the practice was all consuming.
I'm in psychodynamic therapy and it has helped me a great deal. I think change happens over time, in the practice of relating. I'm much better at a lot of it. I have a bunch of good friends, my dear husband.
The fear though....sigh
it's just so hard to get rid of
It feels like my nervous system is just so ultra sensitive.> I'm trying the 're-parenting' route. I'm not sure my therapist has succeeded yet. I trust him quite a bit, that's something at least but still ask him at least 2 or 3 times a month "are you sure you don't hate me?".
oh, I still do some version of that pretty frequently. It makes me sad really, that I default to that.
take care witti :-)
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 17, 2011, at 23:02:59
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety, posted by hyperfocus on April 17, 2011, at 18:33:51
thanks for sharing that hf
it was pretty comforting, reassuring, kind
it absolutely feels like PTSD
makes me think about it not being "my fault"
and that I take meds for a reason, and it's ok, even if they aren't a total solution
Posted by sigismund on April 18, 2011, at 2:48:16
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » sleepygirl2, posted by wittgensteinz on April 17, 2011, at 16:05:36
My experience has been that I have become much kinder to myself as I have got older....a sort of soft sadness.
But it terms of satisfying my (tedious, boring, predictable) social expectations of myself.....of course nothing can help with that, but then I disrespect the social world and my desire to be part of it.
Like Sid said somewhere else, I'm tired, humanity, all this stuff, what do the Buddhists say, if you lived forever you would die of heart sickness?
Life is no picnic, or (I have to exclude those present) beautiful world, pity about the company.
Posted by sigismund on April 18, 2011, at 2:53:04
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » hyperfocus, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 17, 2011, at 23:02:59
>t absolutely feels like PTSD
I hate the DSM, but yes, of course, for me certainly.
Posted by Dinah on April 18, 2011, at 2:59:54
In reply to Anyone with social anxiety, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 15, 2011, at 17:50:47
It's strange. I'm not one whit shy, but I have a lot of social anxiety.
How I deal with it, like everything else in my life, varies a lot from day to day. Some days I can cope with socialization by donning a mask, even if it's a bit awkward for me and others, and deal well enough. Other days, I hide from the world.
I expect the world to judge me harshly, because in general it has. To expect something different than what I have always experienced would be foolish.
I'm socially awkward, at best. Some days that bothers me. Other days not so much. Sometimes I can be almost gregarious.
I really feel like I'm not the same person from one day to the next.
I think what may have helped, long term, is to become content with not being around others. While it's true that the most giddy-happy times of my life were defined by my greater than normal social connections to others, I have plenty of content times as a real life hermit.
Posted by Dinah on April 18, 2011, at 3:04:13
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety, posted by Dinah on April 18, 2011, at 2:59:54
I cringe when I get an invitation from a coworker in the mail, even when it's an invitation I know I'll be unable to attend.
I have absolutely no idea what to say, aside from that I won't be able to make it. I *know* some statement of being happy for them for whatever life event is involved is expected. But I have no earthly clue how to express these sentiments in a socially approved manner. So I fret and stew and get so anxious that I either say nothing whatsoever until it's too late to do so at all, or I blurt something awkward.
When I think about it, there's a lot to be said for being a hermit. My dogs don't mind at all if I'm awkward.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 18, 2011, at 17:05:40
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety, posted by sigismund on April 18, 2011, at 2:48:16
What is it about getting older that makes you kinder to yourself?
I am tired, but I have miles to go... (see Robert frost reference there)
Posted by sleepygirl2 on April 18, 2011, at 17:23:30
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety, posted by Dinah on April 18, 2011, at 2:59:54
Part of the challenge there for me... Expecting something different, to not be judged harshly
Some of that may be about choosing one's company
I like to be alone, I need that time, for one thing I'm not on high alert, but I'd never say I don't like people. I can even be friendly. I need time with the well meaning, without malice,
Posted by sigismund on April 18, 2011, at 18:43:23
In reply to Re: Anyone with social anxiety » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 18, 2011, at 17:23:30
>What is it about getting older that makes you kinder to yourself?
I think you become more conscious of the propensity for error that we all have.
So you become a little more careful and a little more forgiving.
Some people carry it on to the bitter end, regretting only that they did not do more of what they did....... The Fuehrer has decided that the Jews will vanish from the face of the earth. In the end he regrets the fact that he has been too kind and too moderate. You can do it that way. It requires a considerable sense of self-importance.
This is the end of the thread.
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