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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2010, at 14:18:48
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but.... » 10derheart, posted by Daisym on December 21, 2010, at 0:41:41
Oh, Daisy, that's very distressing to hear. I'm very glad you told us, because many of us have been following your therapeutic journey for a number of years, and had not heard too much recently, We all secretly, or not so secretly, looked to your therapist as a model of understanding, caring and steadfastness. It is very unexpected and upsetting to think that somehow there has been a rupture between the two of you which you have not yet been able to repair.
I once read somewhere that analyses or therapies where nothing goes wrong are also the ones where not much ever happens. The first three years with my present analyst were a long series of ruptures, only some of which got repaired. I guess there was a high enough percentage of repairs to allow things to go along well. It was the successful repairs which proved so helpful, although getting to them was full of stress and uncertainty. I do hope the same for you, and also hope you will post whenever you think we might be able to offer hope, understanding or encouragement.
Posted by annierose on December 21, 2010, at 14:22:51
In reply to Re: ((((10derheart)))) » gardenergirl, posted by 10derheart on December 21, 2010, at 1:06:14
Perhaps this is a piece to the puzzle. I didn't know you began seeing a t in your current hometown/new state. Perhaps when your former t knew this, he decided that it was a good time to close the door and let you move on to the new therapeutic relationship.
Obviously he handled it poorly. And everyone here has so much wisdom in their posts, that I'll need to bookmark this thread so I can re-read them when I feel that kind of inner punched in the stomach hurt from my therapist.
I am happy to know that you sought a new support system for yourself.
You are stronger than you realize.
Posted by 10derheart on December 21, 2010, at 15:59:32
In reply to Re: ((((10derheart)))), posted by annierose on December 21, 2010, at 14:22:51
> Perhaps this is a piece to the puzzle. I didn't know you began seeing a t in your current hometown/new state. Perhaps when your former t knew this, he decided that it was a good time to close the door and let you move on to the new therapeutic relationship.
No, he unilaterally terminated me in an email one hour before a scheduled session back in Feb. Or at least that's what I dragged out of him in the phone call, through my shock & tears since he would *not* come out and say he was ending therapy, but only that he'd become too connected to my life and preoccupied with me, etc., etc. And that he had no answers and I would have to wait (undetermined amount of time) till he figured out what to do. Within a week of that I started seeking a T. to support me through this shock. So I'm saying the order of things was the opposite of what you wrote.
I know it's convoluted because I have not told the whole story chronologically here - yet. I want to and hope to soon. I just know the posts will be ridiculously long and I also dread it in a way. But I'll have to if I want anyone reading to understand. In a nutshell, what my female T now thinks in general (though she is quite baffled at some of his mixed messages) is that he blurred the boundaries between T and friend/buddy so much for so long, caring so much he wanted to be there for me no matter what so I'd be stable when I moved here (2008-reluctantly), then eventually he realized it was unhealthy for us both to go on this way (phone therapy indefinitely) and tried to pull back, but had NO CLUE *how* exactly to do that. There the fumbling, bumbling and harm started as he both tried to get me to detach from him while simultaneously saying we did not have to say a final good-bye. It's a fair assessment but there is a lot more detail....
> Obviously he handled it poorly.
Yes, and that's an understatement. But oh he has tried so hard to do things right and even sought supervision and is SUCH a kind and good man that it is hard for me not to feel as badly for him as I do for myself. Well, almost. I adore the guy, in case anyone hasn't guessed. He is so very humanly flawed, just like me. And therein lies the conundrum with therapists having flaws and weak areas - this very genuine, authenticity is what made my healing with his help possible, yet it also is such that he - frankly - screwed up attempting to draw therapy to a close and hurt me badly. And now (I will explain better later) is doing almost a repeat of last year, out of the blue **again***....
>> And everyone here has so much wisdom in their posts, that I'll need to bookmark this thread so I can re-read them when I feel that kind of inner punched in the stomach hurt from my therapist.
I agree completely.
> I am happy to know that you sought a new support system for yourself.
I had to. I was drowning in grief and confusion.
> You are stronger than you realize.
I don't think so, but in my belief system God is strong enough for everyone, in everything, all the time, so that is where I have to focus. I cannot do this relying on me, me, me.
Posted by Daisym on December 21, 2010, at 17:13:07
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but.... » Daisym, posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2010, at 14:18:48
<<<Oh, Daisy, that's very distressing to hear. I'm very glad you told us, because many of us have been following your therapeutic journey for a number of years, and had not heard too much recently, We all secretly, or not so secretly, looked to your therapist as a model of understanding, caring and steadfastness. It is very unexpected and upsetting to think that somehow there has been a rupture between the two of you which you have not yet been able to repair. >>>
Thanks. But I think what you wrote above is exactly why I've been quiet about it. And to be clear, he is still the model of caring, and steadfastness and is trying oh so hard to understand what has happened for me. It is very old and very deep and yet wrapped around him in a complicated present day reenactment.
But I appreciate the support and caring.
Posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2010, at 18:17:11
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but.... » twinleaf, posted by Daisym on December 21, 2010, at 17:13:07
The enactments around mothering can be even more painful when we are feeling not just extremely angry and alone, but also guilty and envious, because in front of us is this wonderful, caring therapist trying so hard to connect, and not being able to. And it's surely our fault! They look so wonderful and perfect, while we are feeling (and looking) absolutely horrible.
A large part of the work I have done in the last three years has been just like that. When I was in the middle of it, I thought it a was absolutely endless and unbearable. But I think we have kind of worked some of it out now. I do feel a lot better. It helped, when I was at my worst, that *Dr. K* wasn't overly kind and nice!
It's a lot easier to post about these things afterwards. Sometimes it's just not possible to talk about it when you are going through it; I know I can't. Still, it means a lot to us long-time Babblers to reconnect with you, Daisy...
Posted by annierose on December 21, 2010, at 22:30:56
In reply to Re: ((((10derheart)))) » annierose, posted by 10derheart on December 21, 2010, at 15:59:32
Thank you for clearing up the time-line.
I think what you wrote is exactly right. The parts of him that you adored and connected with are also the parts that confused him in handling your move to another state. He wanted to be there for you and then fumbled the fall-out ... that he caused. The worse hurt is one caused by our therapist.
You are taking good care of yourself. And I'm glad you came here again seeking support.
Posted by 10derheart on December 23, 2010, at 16:21:46
In reply to I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 19, 2010, at 21:52:28
[Warning - disjointed rant that won't make sense]
Really, was that stupid email necessary 6 days before Christmas, you f******** idiot? You *know* what Christmas means to me. And to you, too, I thought. Wouldn't the last thing you'd want to do be to re-traumatize me at this moment? Do I get to "thank" you for partly wrecking my special days by filling them with moments of hiding in bathrooms and cars crying my eyes out over you? Gee.....THANKS. What a special, unique gift.
How was I to know to expect this? We did not talk about this. {Coward} I could have never anticipated this based on all the things we've talked about for almost a year. {Chicken-sh*t} Shame on you, anyway. Where is the T. I spoke to only a few weeks ago? What have you done with him? Why the 100% cut off of responding and the preemptive strike ("no explanations")? It isn't even like you. Whatever you are thinking, it must be compelling to have done this. But....what about MY feelings?
Hope you're having a lovely, carefree time in P******* with your family after you threw me away like garbage and ran away. Happy NY to you, too.
You say staying in touch [at all? ever? some day again? never? what EVER] is now "not right?" YOU and your erratic behavior are what's not right. Can't you see that? Oh no, that's it, we technically and officially had our last session as client and T., so now you are free, free, free of me. {Funny how that would be a good thing when you repeatedly and recently said how much you like knowing me and talking with me, and want very much to know how I am doing, blah, blah, blah)
After all, that's what the precious "rules" say, don't they? That when it's done, it's done. Oh yes, boundary blurring and being my best buddy for years doesn't matter, just pull out the friggin' rules now and hide behind them.
Hope you're deliriously happy with yourself and your "oh-so-ethical" decision.
how can I hate someone so much and love them so much at the same time? It's awful.
Posted by annierose on December 23, 2010, at 17:50:34
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 23, 2010, at 16:21:46
how can I hate someone so much and love them so much at the same time?
he disappointed you in such a hurtful way. the love is still there underneath all that hurt. i imagine he was given this "advice" in supervision and i also imagine he is worried about how you received his "no contact, no explanation" rule. you can still send him this note - just so he can't pretend he doesn't know how much you are hurting.
where is partly cloudy to issue several hundred cyber slaps?
i'm thinking about you. time does have an amazing why to distance yourself from the immediate jolt of his words. you need to grieve this loss and grief sucks.
Posted by 10derheart on December 23, 2010, at 23:56:16
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 23, 2010, at 16:21:46
Incredibly embarrassing post.
I need to stop.
Posted by mystickangaroo on December 24, 2010, at 3:25:32
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 23, 2010, at 23:56:16
Incredibly painful post
Keep posting
Posted by sigismund on December 24, 2010, at 4:43:17
In reply to I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 19, 2010, at 21:52:28
When I have written to you you have been so friendly and accepting.
You have always been very kind to me on the boards as well.
Posted by Dinah on December 24, 2010, at 7:34:48
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 23, 2010, at 16:21:46
Not embarrassing at all! In fact, I tend to think being furious with him might not be such a bad thing.
Really, there is no requirement that the person dumped needs to be pleasant about the dumping. I know that's a relationship term, but therapy *is* a relationship. I imagine you hate him *because* you love him. It's when you cease to hate him and become indifferent that you'll know that your love has died. Or at least that's how it is with me.
(((( 10der ))))
Don't feel embarrassed about posting this. It seemed perfectly reasonable to me. (Of course, you'll remember the famous sh*t faced b*st*rd incident with me under similar circumstances.)
It felt to me like part of me had been ripped out when my therapist abandoned me. Even though he didn't want to do it, and even though he felt bad about it. Even a planned and tapered one sided termination feels like abandonment.
It will get better with time. I know that's not a great deal of comfort, but it's something I try to keep in mind when I have kidney stones, or wisdom teeth removed. It hurts when part of your being is ripped out.
Posted by floatingbridge on December 24, 2010, at 14:05:34
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but.... » 10derheart, posted by Dinah on December 24, 2010, at 7:34:48
Hugs anytime. I'm very sorry this is happening, and glad you posted and shared.
Posted by Daisym on December 27, 2010, at 0:03:49
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 23, 2010, at 23:56:16
Nothing to be embarrassed about. You need a witness to your pain so you don't begin to doubt yourself and the validity of the depth of your anguish. HE did this. YOU hurt. IT sucks.
Hate is the flip side of love. I agree with Dinah. Hating comes straight out of the frustration of being completely powerless in this situation. I think just like love, passionate hate feels like a fire that could consume you. I think divorce can be something like that - you wonder how on earth you could have loved this person that you now "hate" so much. And you also wonder if they ever loved you, how could they hurt you so much?
I wish I could speed up time for you. I hope Santa brought you at least a few moments of peace.
Posted by 10derheart on December 27, 2010, at 17:38:03
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but.... » 10derheart, posted by Daisym on December 27, 2010, at 0:03:49
Thanks, Daisy.
I am better. Don't know why, really. Just refuse to dwell on it for a while. Will HAVE to go back to it, though. So, so complicated of a situation. He is not all wrong by any means. But he is *all* cryptic and choosing no explanations which equates to no contact (I guess) and that part does suck. Ex-therapist or not, human being cannot reach stability and understanding *without* communication, IMO. Clearly, he thinks the communication itself is a problem, which creates somewhat of an impasse for now. Sigh.
I am taking a short holiday from dealing with my feelings toward him. So tired of being jerked around and forced to guess what is going on.
I don't much do Santa (although he is fine) but God does bring me bits and pieces of peace (sorry for the terrible pun there) every few days. I couldn't do any of this without Him. For my faith I am always grateful.
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 27, 2010, at 18:38:20
In reply to I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 19, 2010, at 21:52:28
I just saw this post because I, too, have been absent more than present on Babble for the past year. I also have been dealing with the loss of my long-time therapist. I know at least some of what you are going through.
I do want to say that several times over the past few months I have made the assumption from my former T's actions that she didn't really want to have further contact with me, but I was wrong. I say this because you wrote he "seemingly" cut off all contact, which seems to me to be maybe a matter of interpretation.
I haven't read all the other responses and no doubt the others have been more helpful than I can pull off at this point, but I do understand and I'm happy to give you a hug. Wish it could be in real life.
((((((((10derheart)))))))))
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 27, 2010, at 18:50:15
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but...., posted by 10derheart on December 23, 2010, at 16:21:46
It makes perfect sense to me. And I'm so sorry. I really am.
(((((((((((((((10derheart))))))))))))))))
Posted by 10derheart on December 29, 2010, at 2:04:20
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but.... » 10derheart, posted by TherapyGirl on December 27, 2010, at 18:38:20
> I just saw this post because I, too, have been absent more than present on Babble for the past year. I also have been dealing with the loss of my long-time therapist. I know at least some of what you are going through.
I know. I can never forget your story. Mine is...weirder, for lack of a better term right now. But there are real commonalities as if I remember right for a loooong time you felt your T. was not hearing you about your feelings about ending therapy and she gave mixed (or at least confusing messages). That part is similar, in a way....
> I do want to say that several times over the past few months I have made the assumption from my former T's actions that she didn't really want to have further contact with me, but I was wrong. I say this because you wrote he "seemingly" cut off all contact, which seems to me to be maybe a matter of interpretation.
I wish. It may change, of course. But due a bunch of facts and circumstances I still haven't the energy to lay out in a post here yet, he means it for now. When he recently promised, after our agreed last session (the last of four as part of an agreed "do-over" of his initial, horrible, unwanted + sudden t***in*t**n<<<<< it's a *dirty* word to me) to email me in several weeks just to see how I was doing, he instead wrote:
"Because it is the right thing to do and nothing else would be right,
No more email, no more phone calls, no more explanations."And - that - was - it. Then he left the next day on holiday vacation with family away from his office/home state.
What
the
hell
ever.> I haven't read all the other responses and no doubt the others have been more helpful than I can pull off at this point, but I do understand and I'm happy to give you a hug.
Nonsense. There's no real helping of this pain, especially when it didn't/isn't going as planned or expected and bewilderment is the main emotion - but *every* response, yours as well, helps me feel less alone, validated and just.....like I'm not the insane one....
>Wish it could be in real life.
Me, too. That sounds wonderful, actually. We ought to form an unfortunate club...if we only had the transporters from Star Trek to beam around and help/comfort each other.> ((((((((10derheart)))))))))
Thank you so much for posting. Can't be fun to revisit and rethink about any of this topic, I know.
Posted by 10derheart on January 2, 2011, at 2:50:35
In reply to ((((((10derheart))))))))), posted by floatingbridge on December 24, 2010, at 14:05:34
Thanks for writing and the hug. It is....weird and terrible and okay and wrong and right and hurts and is insane but on some level makes sense (for him, at least) and more...all at once.
I know that must sound "nuts." But it's true.
I just miss him and it's only bearable 'cause he's still on vacation for two more days. When I know he's back at work and maybe won't communicate any more (ALL I WANTED WAS OCCASIONALLY, YOU ***** IF YOU'D JUST TRUST ME), I will likely feel much worse.
I alternate sobbing and screaming at him inside my car/house and not giving a damn and totally blocking him from my mind. It's really not all that much fun either way.
And seeing my current "T" helps very little. She is really kind, patient, nice, smart....but this situation is so odd and foreign to her....and me.....
It stinks. Therapy shouldn't always lead to the need for more therapy for the therapy. But with me, it has.
Posted by 10derheart on January 2, 2011, at 2:51:27
In reply to Re: I try to never do this, but.... » 10derheart, posted by mystickangaroo on December 24, 2010, at 3:25:32
Posted by 10derheart on January 4, 2011, at 18:36:19
In reply to Re: ((((((10derheart))))))))) » floatingbridge, posted by 10derheart on January 2, 2011, at 2:50:35
Why
did
you
do
this
TOTALLY UNNECESSARY THING, YOU IDIOT??!!
(back to work...are you going to read my two very proper, restrained and decent emails........ARE YOU???!!!)
Or if it was needed for *your* mental health, how can you neglect and refuse to explain that to me?
I CANNOT READ YOUR MIND AND NEITHER CAN MY NEW T. AND YOUR CRYPTIC CRAP IS MAKING IT SOOOOOOO HARD FOR HER TO HELP ME.Six years is NOT A JOKE OR TRIVIAL.
How many times did you tell me in various words, "You are *not* like any other client," to confirm or assure me we had something quite a bit beyond the professional, helping relationship. We always comfortably agreed we had become buddies around two or three shared interests, values and beliefs and it was nice and still appropriate and HELPED the therapy. You claimed you would VERY MUCH like to stay in touch. Yes, of course you eventually realized you'd lost vigilance and focus on the therapy issues (other than my need to feel special and cherished) and allowed yourself to just be a quasi-significant other by email because, perhaps ironically, it WAS helping things in me heal ....I saw it, too. I GET IT, AS YOU KNOW. But it was and is what it is. You cannot "fix" it like this.
THIS CAUSES HARM. I am unraveling, you jerk.
LIAR>LIAR>LIAR.
Yeah, guess I wasn't like others. I was the first to be disposed of like garbage when you *felt* like it. Ooops....forgot...ex-clients have NO STATUS because THAT'S ALL I EVER WAS WORK, WORK, WORK AND YOU LIED ABOUT ALL THE REST OF THE RELATIONSHIP.
WAS THIS ALL TECHNIQUE? FOR YEARS??????
tell me the truth finally, you chicken**it.
I want to smash ****** ***** **.
--10der, who is enraged inside most of the time
Posted by Daisym on January 5, 2011, at 0:33:40
In reply to Re: ((((((10derheart))))))))), posted by 10derheart on January 4, 2011, at 18:36:19
Oh Tender,
I hear your pain and agree - it was so unnecessary. This is one of those examples of how a therapist lost sight of what is best for the client. And no matter how the relationship evolved, you were the client. So this is on him - but you know that already.
I honestly don't know what to say that you aren't already saying. The hurt will lessen eventually - you just have to make up your mind to live through it and take it day by day. I think I'd be waffling between wanting to write and tell him off, or to call and leave a message on his machine and tell him off, and going completely, stone cold quiet.
I can only imagine your frustration and rage and sadness. I am so, so sorry.
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 0:34:00
In reply to Re: ((((((10derheart))))))))), posted by 10derheart on January 4, 2011, at 18:36:19
I'm so sorry, 10der. I wish there was something I could say to help.
Posted by floatingbridge on January 5, 2011, at 12:10:28
In reply to Re: ((((((10derheart))))))))), posted by 10derheart on January 4, 2011, at 18:36:19
10derheart, I can and cannot imagine your outrage and hurt. The few times I had thought my therapist of only 2.5 years was going to dump me left me hysterical.
I am deeply sorry. Please keep posting as it serves you. We're here.
Posted by 10derheart on January 5, 2011, at 18:07:41
In reply to Re: ((((((10derheart))))))))) » 10derheart, posted by floatingbridge on January 5, 2011, at 12:10:28
....just by acknowledging my existence and validating these horrible feelings of anger and wanting to be SO nasty to him (really, no one knows the half of that piece, not even my current T. b/c I honestly don't think she could stand to hear the foul names i want to call him).
I owe several of you individual responses. I never mean to skip over anyone, yet I know I have. I just can't focus that well quite now. Need a couple more days. Please. please bear with me and eventually I will respond to everyone.
Today I keep crying and scheming some way to get his attention. It's actually a situation in flux in a way right now...which I can't explain yet but will. It has to do with my current T. discussing this odd situation with her supervisor (a highly experienced 32+-year PhD) with regard to her wish to call my ex-T and ask what he was thinking with this last, bizarre "cut-10der-off" email in light of what went on before. Sure, she will, can and does continue to work with these awful feeling s with me in whatever way I want, but both of us (and her supervisor cautiously agrees, too...although he wants her to be careful and really talk possible worse consequences with me before she chooses to call him...) can see she is handicapped severely in trying to help me reframe, or accept or whatever, as the email 2 weeks back was so cryptic she does not understand *what* she is helping me understand.
It is quite a dilemma for her and I give her credit for hanging in there. I asked her last session why she doesn't just push me toward accepting therapy with him is over and as is usual after t**rm**at*** (not what I expected in this case or what ex-T told me for years he believed...) I won't be communicating with him any more....wouldn't that he healthier for me? She looked at me with a kind of sad amusement and said, "I could try to do that, I suppose. Would it be helpful?" I said, "I doubt it. I would feel angry and like you were dismissing this HUGE relationship in my life and choosing your own agenda as wiser for me than what I felt I needed to talk about more." She said, "Exactly. That's why I don't even really consider that. I am willing to keep dealing with this your way, not mine."
She is good, but it's weird because I have (even after 8-9 months) not ever felt except once for about 30 seconds - any of that magical, inexplicable thing that happens for me when psychodynamic therapy really 'clicks' and is forming a real bond....and that feels a little sad. BUT, in my case, it also feel safer and better because I surely don't want to become incredibly attached and bonded to therapist #3 in eight years, and also, my "endings" (yeah, there were two) with *my* T. are is still so fresh, raw and unsettled (baffling) I can't imagine starting to care about her on that deep, deep level that I find eventually manifests as therapy-love. No way.
I like her and she handles this mess well, considering, and she seems compassionate enough and on my side. That is good enough for now.
This is all so ridiculous. I just wanted to stay in touch in a relaxed and healthy manner for us both. Right now, no one trusts me enough to give a chance for that to happen. He removed my chance before I could even show him I have grown, changed and eased off my intense need for all the email. That is SO frustrating and feels like lack of trust and cold, uncaring disposal like garbage. He is too kind of a man to *intend* to make me feel so badly, he is just torn and misguided, IMO. But either way, I can't DO anything about it right now and it makes me want to scream and break things.
When a therapist (ex-T...whatever) *chooses* to NOT communicate, when that is the stock and trade of the entire relationship and of their profession, and frankly, of people continuing to relate and be connected to each other in any way.well, it's insane to me. I don't do walking away in silence with no explanation as a "solution" to difficult relationships and I thought he never, ever did/would, either.
I was wrong. Apparently.
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