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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2010, at 12:50:42
That's something my therapist has said a lot lately, and one of those things that has shifted my view of him.
I suppose he does it in place of getting defensive. Like yesterday I was *very* late getting to my session, I'd forgotten my cell phone so I couldn't call him, and when I finally arrived, stressed and anxious, he had given up and gone down for coffee or something. It took another ten minutes or so to get back. I think in prior years, he'd have been more defensive. But this time he just said he had been worried about me, called all my numbers and sent me an email, and then wasn't sure what to do.
It's hard to believe all this isn't some sort of plan on his part to have me see him less as my therapist and more as a person, with the ultimate goal of lessening my dependence.
I don't think I like to hear that my therapist doesn't know what to do. I think I prefer to hear that he's sure what to do, even if I think he's wrong.
Posted by wittgensteinz on October 30, 2010, at 15:36:26
In reply to I wasn't sure what to do, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2010, at 12:50:42
Dinah,
It probably wouldn't do much for my feeling of ease/safety either. I don't tend to like shrugs of the shoulders or "I don't know"'s. Then again, maybe it is more real and honest than a defensive response.
Do you really think this is a calculated strategy of his to reduce your dependency on him? I have the feeling we, as clients, tend to attribute more cunning and strategy to our therapists than really exists (just my own feeling).
Why were you so late? Is there something to read into that?
Witti
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2010, at 23:23:58
In reply to Re: I wasn't sure what to do » Dinah, posted by wittgensteinz on October 30, 2010, at 15:36:26
> It probably wouldn't do much for my feeling of ease/safety either. I don't tend to like shrugs of the shoulders or "I don't know"'s. Then again, maybe it is more real and honest than a defensive response.
I think it probably is. I like to think of him as more self assured, but he's probably just faking it like most of us are.
> Do you really think this is a calculated strategy of his to reduce your dependency on him? I have the feeling we, as clients, tend to attribute more cunning and strategy to our therapists than really exists (just my own feeling).
That's definitely my experience of him. Yet I also have the experience that he has a native feel for what I need at any given time. Maybe it's not a conscious decision on his part, but it might be an unconscious reaction to what he perceives in our relationship. Certainly it's a newish dynamic between us. Maybe the last year or two.
>
> Why were you so late? Is there something to read into that?Only that I was very busy at work, and probably should have canceled altogether. I'd slept very little this past week, preparing for a deadline yesterday. I thought I'd be finished before our session so I didn't cancel, but I wasn't finished. I sent out some emails before I left for the session. Then stupidly passed the open parking spaces in the parking garage thinking I saw one closer. I had to leave the garage, drive around the corner, re-enter and try again. I was just way too tired to think straight, since I worked straight through the night.
>
> WittiThanks, Witti.
Posted by rskontos on October 31, 2010, at 0:56:33
In reply to Re: I wasn't sure what to do » wittgensteinz, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2010, at 23:23:58
> > It probably wouldn't do much for my feeling of ease/safety either. I don't tend to like shrugs of the shoulders or "I don't know"'s. Then again, maybe it is more real and honest than a defensive response.
>
> I think it probably is. I like to think of him as more self assured, but he's probably just faking it like most of us are.
>
> > Do you really think this is a calculated strategy of his to reduce your dependency on him? I have the feeling we, as clients, tend to attribute more cunning and strategy to our therapists than really exists (just my own feeling).
>
> That's definitely my experience of him. Yet I also have the experience that he has a native feel for what I need at any given time. Maybe it's not a conscious decision on his part, but it might be an unconscious reaction to what he perceives in our relationship. Certainly it's a newish dynamic between us. Maybe the last year or two.
>
> >
> > Why were you so late? Is there something to read into that?
>
> Only that I was very busy at work, and probably should have canceled altogether. I'd slept very little this past week, preparing for a deadline yesterday. I thought I'd be finished before our session so I didn't cancel, but I wasn't finished. I sent out some emails before I left for the session. Then stupidly passed the open parking spaces in the parking garage thinking I saw one closer. I had to leave the garage, drive around the corner, re-enter and try again. I was just way too tired to think straight, since I worked straight through the night.
>
> >
> > Witti
>
> Thanks, Witti.
You know Dinah, I have coming to understand especially with my interactions in academia, that sometimes we, those with an ongoing therapy relationship do sometimes put more into actions of others than others do, especially those doing the actions.He said he was worried, I think he was. Maybe you are picking up on his feelings that it is time to reduce (unless this was your idea) and would rather it was your idea. I understand that.
rsk
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2010, at 13:50:46
In reply to Re: I wasn't sure what to do, posted by rskontos on October 31, 2010, at 0:56:33
That's likely true. It's probably more likely that some point in the last year or two, he confronted his defensiveness in his life and made the decision to admit to the vulnerability of uncertainty. I'm glad he didn't decide that earlier. Whatever his intent, it lessens his authority and with it my comfortable view of him as an authority - however flawed I saw him.
It's not that he was ever rigidly defensive. He never was. He always admitted that there were two people in any given interaction, and that my view was as valid as his. But the vulnerability is new, and a bit disconcerting to me.
It may be just a word change on his part, but words mean a lot to me. A slight difference of words can mean a world of meaning to my ear.
He was worried. I could tell that not only from what he said in session, but from the email he sent when I wasn't there. It was as formal and stiff as ever. He doesn't have an ease with writing. But it did have a tone of concern. It really wasn't like me, and it wouldn't have happened this time if I hadn't left my cell phone at home. And missed a parking spot in the garage. And was somewhat late to start with. Etc.
Posted by annierose on October 31, 2010, at 14:10:56
In reply to Re: I wasn't sure what to do » rskontos, posted by Dinah on October 31, 2010, at 13:50:46
His response sounded honest ... that in fact he didn't know what to do next besides calling and e-mailing. Depending upon his office set-up, I suppose he could have left a note on the door saying "Went for coffee @ time, be back in 5 minutes" in case you came late (which in fact happened).
But from your perspective, I would have felt devastated arriving anxiouisly late and then No therapist in his office ... I would have reacted with shocked horror "Where's my therapist? I'm here."
This situation hasn't happened to me as I'm chronic about being "on time" and I'll call or text if I'm running more than 2 minutes late ... so when I do arrive late and push her "I'm here" button, I want her to immediately appear. Sometimes I can hear her shuffling papers or finishing a phone call and I'll think, "Hey, this is my time, get off the phone."
Posted by Daisym on October 31, 2010, at 22:46:48
In reply to Re: I wasn't sure what to do » Dinah, posted by annierose on October 31, 2010, at 14:10:56
I think there is a fine balance that all care givers have to walk which is being reassuring and yet being truthful.
My therapist sometimes makes a list of all the things going wrong in my life. I think his intention is to help me see that I do, indeed, have reason to be upset. I want to scream at him, "stop it, stop it!" This is not helping!
Do you think this might also be a female/male thing? I've noticed that my sons tend to be pretty OK with saying, "I have no idea what to do" while I continue to look for ideas or at least offer reassurance that the answer will present itself.
I will say, when there isn't a lot going on, it is much easier to get annoyed about all these personal foibles.
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2010, at 0:51:04
In reply to Re: I wasn't sure what to do » Dinah, posted by annierose on October 31, 2010, at 14:10:56
There's actually someone there to call him when his patient comes in. Thank heavens she was there, since I didn't have my cell phone. So I knew he was coming.
It was awfully hard to sit there and wait ten minutes for him when I was already at least twenty minutes late. More if you count from the hour rather than when he usually brings me back at ten after. I had half killed myself to get there, and I couldn't help thinking that my time was ticking away, while at the same time I couldn't really be angry since it was my fault.
I saw the poor guy thinking as the time would have come up at the time we usually started. He had someone waiting. But he did keep me waiting ten minutes after he arrived. So should he add on the ten minutes? But he usually starts at ten after, what would that mean to the calculations?
I took pity on him and wrapped things up.
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2010, at 1:26:11
In reply to Re: I wasn't sure what to do, posted by Daisym on October 31, 2010, at 22:46:48
Goodness. I wrote a reply but don't see it. I wonder if that was a freudian miss of the submit your post button.
It's not that I'm annoyed with him. It's actually a better for relationships to respond with vulnerability than with defensiveness.
Maybe it sounds minor, but it is one of many minor changes in what's going on in the therapy room. Sometimes he's just as he always was. Usually when I'm upset and he perceives me as needing him, I think. Other times, this vulnerability, an increased level of self disclosure, and more of a tendency to respond as a person rather than as a therapist, all tend to shift the balance of power in our relationship.
He probably doesn't plan it. But it may be a natural response on his part to some difference he sees in me, or some change he sees as needed.
This is the end of the thread.
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