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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by garnet71 on March 21, 2009, at 11:55:28
So a couple of years ago I read a great book written by a psychoanalyst-"The Angry Book". It explains how anger, when not processed correctly or ignored, gets perverted into anxiety, abuse, hate, depression, obsessions/compulsions and everything else. It was the most informative self-help book I ever read. This author does inject some stories as to how he cured some patients of life-long mental illnesses by releasing and working with the unprocessed anger. In a nutshell, he explains how many mental disorders are a result of anger, or are linked to the emotion.
But the book doesn't really go into that much about how to process anger that's been held within (for me-decades).
I was talking a walk in the middle of the night and was feeling angry and upset about some things....and I kept looking up at the stars since it was a clear night and the stars were so bright and I felt tears and couldn't hold them back. So I realized it triggered me, and then I remembered that during my childhood, I was always trapped in the house and had chronic insomnia so after my Dad went to bed I would take off the screen to my window, put a folded blanket on the windowsill, and sit there and watch the sky and look at the moon, looking for shooting stars for hours. I've seen a few over the years, and would use them to cope-to make wishes that everything would be ok, and I had sensed by this action, wishing on shooting stars, that I would have the ability to achieve my life dreams and would turn out ok. I know, silly, but it allowed me to hang on to faith and hope while I was growing up.
After I had that thought during my walk, I then realized that some things going on after childhood, the things for which I was currently angry about, led me to feel angry because they reminded me of being abandoned by my parents, in a sense, and how my mother let my dad abuse us, so lack of support by my mother, always left to fend for myself-powerless. I realized that is why I was angry about the things I was thinking of, things that had nothing to do with childhood.
So once you acknowledge the anger, link it, and understand it, how do you process it correctly? What do you do next?
Posted by Dinah on March 21, 2009, at 12:14:09
In reply to How do you process anger?, posted by garnet71 on March 21, 2009, at 11:55:28
I don't much like extreme anger, it makes my head hurt. But with intense emotions in general I've always found the best way to process them is to accept them, and acknowledge them. To experience them as fully as possible, without letting them guide my choices unduly.
If something can be done about the cause of the anger, the anger can be channeled to do just that. Or to help others avoid the same situation. But if there really is nothing to be done, accepting and experiencing it?
And of course self awareness so that in future when you realize that your reaction to current events is partly a reaction to things that came long ago, you can sort those things out and react to what's actually going on now.
I'm likely missing something. It's not that I was taught to suppress anger. Quite the contrary. My parents expressed their anger openly and preferred that I did so as well. But it really makes my head hurt and I find it extremely uncomfortable. So I try not to dwell on it after I accept it.
Posted by Phillipa on March 21, 2009, at 13:18:44
In reply to Re: How do you process anger? » garnet71, posted by Dinah on March 21, 2009, at 12:14:09
Sometimes anger pushes me to do something I wouldn't do something positive the anger is the motivator. So for me sometimes anger not out of control pushes me to accomplish things. Phillipa
Posted by Kath on March 22, 2009, at 11:45:00
In reply to How do you process anger?, posted by garnet71 on March 21, 2009, at 11:55:28
Hi Garnet,
I'm just recently learning about all the 'past stuff coming forward'.
I'm often really surprised at what pops into my head if I'm feeling upset & ask myself, "When have I felt like this before?"
A doctor who I go to who does energy work says something about - when we get upset by things now, as adults, usually the things resonate with things that have happened to us up to the age 5.
Maybe it's something like if something happened at age 4 that someone raised their voice in a certain way at me & I was scared, that for the rest of my life, if a person raised their voice in that way at me I'd be scared. AND if my friend had never had that happen as a kid, her response to someone raising their voice like that at her would NOT upset her.
I must say that the Little Girl Garnet was one smart little cookie! How wonderfully ingeneous (sp?) to take the screen out, make herself comfy & wish on the stars. It makes me think of a magic-child.
I tend to use 'alternative' type methods to heal my core stuff. I've found TAT extremely useful in healing past trauma WITHOUT having to re-experience the trauma. There's a website:
www.tatlife.com that explains about it. if you ever want to ask me about it, I'm here for ya. Either here at PB or by babblemail.
I've also used very physical methods to deal with anger. But I'm tending now towards gentler ways. If you want some good, powerful ways, just ask me.
One thing I've found good in the past is to write letters. My Dad was already dead & I had unfinished stuff. So a therapist years ago told me to write to him. I did, saying all the things I needed to...lots of tears of anger during the writing. I put the letter in an envelope, sealed it & decided to actually put it in a mailbox. And even though he was dead, all I could put on the envelope was his first initial!! I found that weird.
Anyway, it really dealt with the anger I had.
hugs to ya, Kath
Posted by raisinb on March 22, 2009, at 15:45:03
In reply to How do you process anger?, posted by garnet71 on March 21, 2009, at 11:55:28
That is such a tough question. I struggled with it for years. I guess for me it turned out that there were a)temporary fixes when I got enraged, and b)a long-term solution.
Temporary fixes can be anything that makes you calm again. If you get intense attacks of rage, you can punch or kick something. Kickboxing worked wonders for me during one difficult period. Or journal out your angry thoughts.
But for me the only long-term solution was to deal with my deep feelings of powerlessness and worthlessness. Once I started really trying to love myself (which I still struggle with!) and believe in myself, constant anger at little things went away.
Posted by desolationrower on March 22, 2009, at 18:41:13
In reply to Re: How do you process anger? » garnet71, posted by Kath on March 22, 2009, at 11:45:00
i don't think it is the 'anger' necessarily that one keeps; it is the perceived social relationship or insult or whatever. the anger is the habit that is still occuring. one can change it; thats what vengence or reconciliation is for, alerting the underlying relationship. Forgiveness/understanding/contextualising (probably with a mix of empathy/pity) is probably more emotional work, but usually the 'right' approach - changing the habit we have in how we react to the negative event to use more positive emotionality. strong emotions don't go away easily, but they go faster if there is postive counter to teh negative.
I think the process is rather well described in some religions: praying for your enemies; metta meditation. i am still trying to work out how it can apply for internalizing disorders; its to require something a bit different.
-d/r
Posted by Sigismund on March 22, 2009, at 23:14:05
In reply to Re: How do you process anger?, posted by desolationrower on March 22, 2009, at 18:41:13
Goodmorning anger, my old friend. How are you today?
Treat it like an angry child. Wait for it to calm down.
Posted by garnet71 on March 23, 2009, at 9:57:17
In reply to Re: How do you process anger?, posted by Sigismund on March 22, 2009, at 23:14:05
"Sometimes anger pushes me to do something I wouldn't do something positive the anger is the motivator." -- Phillipa
You know, Phillipa-that's great. One of my therapists once told me that some big achievers have fueled their accomplishments out of hypervigilance. Turning it into something positive is a wonderful concept.
"I don't much like extreme anger, it makes my head hurt. But with intense emotions in general I've always found the best way to process them is to accept them, and acknowledge them." -- Dinah
Well Dinah, you make it sound so simple :)). If that's all I need to do, then I've already done what was necessary. That's interesting that anger makes your head hurt. (Not interesting in a good way, but you know what I mean...)
"Temporary fixes can be anything that makes you calm again. If you get intense attacks of rage, you can punch or kick something." - Raison B
Raison, that wouldn't work for me..it's not a rage feeling and the anger never manifests physically. I can't even kill a bug in the house w/o feeling bad for it, let alone have the urge to destroy objects or beat pillows, as I've heard of that method. One person in my life, a toxic emotional vampire, was the only person who led me to feel enraged-but it was more of an intense frustration. The journaling is a good idea, but every time I try to make a habit of it, I fail.
"But for me the only long-term solution was to deal with my deep feelings of powerlessness and worthlessness. Once I started really trying to love myself (which I still struggle with!) and believe in myself, constant anger at little things went away." - Raison B
That certainly is familiar to me. I need to work on my self-esteem; sometimes I think if I were to be successful at that, somehow all my problems would "go away". It sounds as if you are making progress in that department, so congrats.
"I'm often really surprised at what pops into my head if I'm feeling upset & ask myself, "When have I felt like this before?" A doctor who I go to who does energy work says something about - when we get upset by things now, as adults, usually the things resonate with things that have happened to us up to the age 5." -- Kath
When have I felt like this before--that's a great way to connect with the underlying causes. I tend to agree with your doctor that our emotions are very attached to our childhood, but I don't know about age 5...
"AND if my friend had never had that happen as a kid, her response to someone raising their voice like that at her would NOT upset her." - Kath
That shows that triggers, though subtle, may never end!
"I've found TAT extremely useful in healing past trauma WITHOUT having to re-experience the trauma. There's a website: www.tatlife.com." - Kath
Kath--is that the same as EFT? I've heard that does wonders for people. Thanks so much for reminding me of it. Got your email too--sorry behind in email responses..but am determined to try that. I once found a therapist, alternative, that facilitates that, and didn't feel too confident trying it on my own, but I'll have to scratch that thought and do it anyway. Kath, I'm so glad it's helping you with coping re your son's situation. You are such an inspiring person for sure!! Sunshine shines wherever you go despite all the stuff that's going on in your life. :))
"I don't think it is the 'anger' necessarily that one keeps; it is the perceived social relationship or insult or whatever. the anger is the habit that is still occuring. one can change it; thats what vengence or reconciliation is for, alerting the underlying relationship. Forgiveness/understanding/contextualising (probably with a mix of empathy/pity) is probably more emotional work, but usually the 'right' approach - changing the habit we have in how we react to the negative event to use more positive emotionality. strong emotions don't go away easily, but they go faster if there is postive counter to teh negative." - d/r
D/R, you are much smarter than me. I had never thought of it in this way. I don't have vengeful feeling towards anyone, which I think is part of the problem; the anger originates from 'things' that happen in my life that are not connected with individual people. Or-I get angry at myself. I've done that most of my life. I hate that I get angry at myself so much--this is why I'm trying to understand how to process it. I think that getting angry at myself, instead of people/in general is why I haven't properly dealt with it in a healthful way. Like the situation with my ex--I get so angry at myself for staying with him as long as I did, for meeting him, agreeing to date him, wasting myself on him etc. Often I wonder if that old saying is true - anger turned inward leads to depression.
"wait for it to calm down" - Sigi
It doesn't get loud. It's sort of insidious most of the time. It does come out, like in the situation I described, but not enough, imo. If it manifests like this more, it would give me more opportunities to figure it all out.
Lot's of stuff to consider here. I think self-esteem might be the key in my case. If I can make progress with that, maybe I won't be so angry at myself. As far as getting angry at things, there's stuff to think about here too. I'm trying so hard. It's hard w/o therapy sometimes. Thanks so much for all the advice and have a wonderful day. :))
- Garnet
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2009, at 11:11:02
In reply to Re: How do you process anger?, posted by garnet71 on March 23, 2009, at 9:57:17
For the record, I never said it was simple. :)
All that eastern philosophy DBT type stuff takes a lot of practice and a lot of discipline.
I've still got a long way to go. My work lately in therapy has been on lovingkindness. Not for the sake of others, but for myself.
My therapist says that not everyone feels the same physical distress I do when they're angry, but it's hard for me to understand that. My blood pressure must skyrocket.
But maybe we're talking about a different type of angry. Language is so limiting sometimes.
Posted by Kath on March 23, 2009, at 11:44:50
In reply to Re: How do you process anger?, posted by desolationrower on March 22, 2009, at 18:41:13
I've never heard of metta meditation. What is it?
thx Kath
Posted by Kath on March 23, 2009, at 12:14:39
In reply to Re: How do you process anger?, posted by garnet71 on March 23, 2009, at 9:57:17
> When have I felt like this before--that's a great way to connect with the underlying causes. I tend to agree with your doctor that our emotions are very attached to our childhood, but I don't know about age 5...
~ ~ ~ Yeah - I'm not sure I agree about the age 5 part either!
> That shows that triggers, though subtle, may never end!~ ~ ~ This doctor does 'energy work' it's called B.E.A.M. Her belief is that by doing this work, you clear the childhood stuff, so that it's gone eventually & is no longer 'there' to resonate with the triggers. I think it's been a couple of years that I've been going now. And I do notice that some of the things that would have bothered me before don't as much now. BUT - I am doing tons of OTHER stuff as well! Group Therapy; another therapist; counsellor through Addiction Services that my son sometimes goes to; CBT workbook; EFT; TAT; Family Group through the mental health association regarding son........SO who knows what's helping. Perhaps everything is!
Anyway, here's a link showing the TAT hold. It's not the same as EFT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRXdQNA3aEk
You can also do a more 'in depth' TAT which includes saying certain statements. I have done some good healing for severe traumatic stuff from the past using this method. The site is
www.tatlife.com If you have any trouble finding what you need just ask me.
As to EFT, the first site I gave you have a good intro to it. "Magnus" - the guy on those videos also is offering the introduction to a 'tapping course'. That's the one that I did the Preparatory sessions & had such a HUGE shift in my obsessing about my son. The intro & first level of the course are offered free! Here's the link for that one:
www.tappingcourse.com
Dinah - you brought up an interesting point. WORDS!! Anger can mean one thing to someone & something else to someone else. It brings to mind how my son used to say 'he yelled at me' or 'I don't like it when you yell at me' - and in my interpretation or it - it wasn't YELLING - it was raising one's voice. So our concept of the word 'yell' is different!
:-) Kath
Posted by Sigismund on March 23, 2009, at 23:54:06
In reply to Re: How do you process anger?, posted by garnet71 on March 23, 2009, at 9:57:17
I was watching "I'm Your Man" last night, and in it Leonard was talking about being with the Roshi, and he said something along the lines of (from memory)....
'He said to me I am not the Roshi and you are not the student, which meant we are not neccessarily anything, and so as I spent time with him I found I had to be me less, and the less of me there was, the better I felt.'
So as applied to 'anger management' (I made myself laugh) how would this work? We have obstreperous politicians here who have to take anger management courses. The question becomes 'How can we let go?', because we don't want to let go. We want to succeed.
If it's only a start, I can say this....I am profoundly sick of myself. I'm not at all sure how this fits with self esteem.
Posted by Kath on March 25, 2009, at 19:30:59
In reply to Re: How do you process anger?, posted by garnet71 on March 23, 2009, at 9:57:17
> Kath, I'm so glad it's helping you with coping re your son's situation. You are such an inspiring person for sure!! Sunshine shines wherever you go despite all the stuff that's going on in your life. :))
~ ~ ~ Garnet - that is SO kind of you to say!
thanks, :-))) Kath
Posted by desolationrower on March 28, 2009, at 19:30:19
In reply to Re: How do you process anger? » desolationrower, posted by Kath on March 23, 2009, at 11:44:50
> I've never heard of metta meditation. What is it?
>
> thx Kathhi, this is the process, although i'm sure there are better descriptions out there. initially, thinking about someone you love, and focusing on the positive, caring, compassionate, etc. feeling toward taht person. when you can cultivate that emotion easily, move on to someone you have some positive feeling toward, although less intense, such as friend, or dog; try to cultivate the same feeling toward them. Then, a neutral person, such as coworker. Then, move on to someone you dislike; it doesn't mean reenvisioning them without their habit of being bitchy or something, just having a positive feeling toward them despite their flaws. Finally think of someone who is on your shitlist, who hurt you badly, etc. Bring up the feeling of kindness, and keep both it and the person in mind together, to develope feeling of compassion toward this person (and every other person, through overcoming the negative feelings this person causes).
in some ways, it is the opposite of what happens when you dwell and are obsessed with some bad experience in your past. if i can borrow a concept from zen, which i'm sure is doing violence to the actual concepts, one can think of the scars one has the same way distractions are thought of in zazen practice: the weeds to be pulled up, or the weights in a weight room. zen talks about 'beginners mind' that you don't because immune to distractions, and if you did, zazen woudl stop being useful practice. you need some thing to work against to gain strength/experience. making our own use of the harms that have happened, instead of letting the negative feeling happen to us. subverting the harm to our own use: using it to improve our mind and soul and to be better able to deal with such in the future.
-d/r
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2009, at 20:59:35
In reply to Re: How do you process anger? » Kath, posted by desolationrower on March 28, 2009, at 19:30:19
Thanks for explaining that.
I'm going to copy this post & send it to my email so I can print it & read it when I feel like it. It'd like to try this.
:-)) Kath
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