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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by GimmeARepeat on October 7, 2007, at 22:21:22
(Hoping this is the right sub-section)
There's a subtle difference between the two that really shows self-esteem.
Where is the line drawn?And additionally, how important is the self-love part?
Is it possible to have self-appreciation without attached emotion (such as self-hate or self-love)? How can one tell if that's the case with them?
Posted by emily99 on October 8, 2007, at 10:16:39
In reply to Self-Love Vs Self-Appreciation, posted by GimmeARepeat on October 7, 2007, at 22:21:22
This is a really tough question, and has had me thinking about it for quite a while!
I think that self-love is there whether we feel it or not. At the same time I can feel self-hatred when I'm really depressed. I can also feel self-appreciation even when there's self-hatred, because deep down I do love myself. For example, when I'm really depressed, I can occasionally laugh at myself for the thought-circles I get myself into. I appreciate that about me. Self-esteem for me seems to be related to what other people think of me, or what I imagine them to think.
All of these that you mention, self-love, self-hatred, self-appreciation and self-esteem; have a distinct meaning of their own. I believe that we can have all of these without feeling any of them.
Two of my close family members have committed suicide -- my first husband and my oldest son. I have tried to imagine what they were thinking at the time. I always come down to believing that they were in so much pain, that it seemed the only way out. There is also evidence that both of them had been planning it for quite some time. Did they have all of the self-beliefs that you mention? I think they probably did in some form, and that anger was at the root of their pain.
I talk about this quite stoically, because it's been hard for me to feel my own pain. I think it would be too much for me otherwise, so I take it in little bits as a time. The hardest part is to not take on self-blame.
It would help to answer your question if you gave some specific examples that lead you to ask the question.
I will still be thinking about this all day and perhaps even write myself a little "term" paper about it.
Very good question.
Emily
Posted by pegasus on October 8, 2007, at 10:30:40
In reply to Self-Love Vs Self-Appreciation, posted by GimmeARepeat on October 7, 2007, at 22:21:22
I think this touches on the unanswerable question of what love is. I have a much better handle on what appreciation is. So, I know if I'm appreciating myself. But love? I don't even know what it means, really. I know that I love my husband, and my daughter, because when I really connect with them I have this numinous internal experience. Do I ever have that with myself? If I don't, does that mean I don't love myself?
This reminds me of a conversation I had with my T a while back, talking about my old T who moved away. She asked me if I loved him. I said, well . . . I'm really attached to him. Is that the same thing? She paused, and then said . . . maybe.
I'm not sure that it's even particularly helpful to try to figure this one out. Actually, if anyone finds it to be helpful, I'd be interested to hear about that. Maybe I'm missing something important.
But I know that it's helpful to notice when I appreciate myself, or to look for things about myself that I can appreciate.
peg
Posted by emily99 on October 8, 2007, at 10:50:02
In reply to Re: Self-Love Vs Self-Appreciation » GimmeARepeat, posted by pegasus on October 8, 2007, at 10:30:40
I struggled for a very long time about self-love. It always bothered me when I heard the Bible verse "Love thy neighbor as thy self" (not trying to inject religious beliefs here).
I started thinking of nurturing myself as loving myself. I want to eat (usually), like to be clean, like to watch movies that make me feel good -- or anything that makes me feel good. I want to start seeing a T so I can feel better... things like that. I think I would be dead by now if I didn't love myself.
When I wrote back to GimmeARepeat, I was also thinking that it would be hard to love others if I didn't love myself first.
I'm starting to cry, which I haven't done in a long time. This must be hitting a nerve. It makes me feel like I should go have some tea and take a bubble bath.
I do feel love for all of you and wish you well. I appreciate your openness so much, and that I have a place to go to when I'm struggling.
Emily
Posted by rskontos on October 8, 2007, at 11:18:14
In reply to Re: Self-Love » pegasus, posted by emily99 on October 8, 2007, at 10:50:02
I think you can do some of those things on automatic pilot too. I do something because I am suppose to and little one has always done that whatever you are suppose to do you do. Eat, be clean, wash behind your ears, dont think about what is doing on, automatic pilot. When you have been told enough negative things about yourself I think self love is hard especially when you are told those things young. When you have certain boundaries crossed as a young child, it is hard to overcome as an adult. (sorry can't spell for spit today, new meds on board)
I found I dont even think about me much. Until now. I just survived. Because that was what is all about and until now I didn't have time to do much else. To have time to think about that you must have the basics of survival out of the way, for me I didn't. So I have never really had the luxury to know me or love me or understand me before I had a family to take care and then of course no time either. Now I must to save myself. So I draw a real blank when I think about it. This is though a very interesting thread. I am only just know trying to nurture myself. I think if I hate myself it is because through the eyes of the adults I knew as a kid I saw things I didn't understand and I thought it was hate and maybe I learned to hate myself. It is hard to understand what you see as a child that should be love but isn't you havent the right tools to understand, conceptulize what you see and then assimulate(sorry cant spell) it based on what you know because you know little. So you think of love or hate, I knew it wasnt love it must be hate. If this adult who should love me doesn't then I must be hateable. The adult in me is sad for the little one I was. I think self appreciation is way up the ladder of self love first then you will appreciate yourself. But I am probably not making much sense. I know what I mean to say but I am too unconnected today. Later......rk
Posted by GimmeARepeat on October 8, 2007, at 11:41:49
In reply to Self-Love Vs Self-Appreciation, posted by GimmeARepeat on October 7, 2007, at 22:21:22
Uhh..Haven't quite gotten the hang of this forum's format, so bear with me.
I think the difference is self-appreciation goes with thought whereas self-love is emotion. Usually the two go hand in hand, but not necessarily.
You can rationally appreciate yourself, but not love yourself. Like the people who know they have certain abilities and how to use them, but at the same time never feel LOVE for themselves. That was a redundant explanation. Couldn't articulate it well- my bad.
And although it SEEMS more rare, you can love yourself without rationally appreciating yourself. For example...people who are content with what they have and say they're not capable of doing things that they are very well capable of, but don't seem to care. They're still happy. I think that's where the love comes in, but lack of appreciation.Both are integral for reaching our potentials. But I guess self-appreciation is more painful for ourselves, because a certain part of you is never pleased. Feels kind of empty. Self-love is more painful for others who see the world in you and can't understand why you won't reach out and grab it.
A lot of things to do with this I assume works like a domino effect and hell it probably does most of the time, but there's always the exception. These concepts aren't one- but at their best- collectively work as one.
Man... Kind of complicated. So many subtle overtones, but I guess that's what makes this so fascinating.
This is the end of the thread.
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