![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crushedout on May 5, 2007, at 20:33:21
so this is a follow-up to my recent posts about my ex-T with the blog. i've been fantasizing about different ways of "getting back at" her. look, if people stopped telling me she will never hear me or understand, then that probably wouldn't be my goal--i would prefer instead to let her know what she did in as compassionate a way as possible, so that i might be heard, and hope that she would learn from it. but since that doesn't seem possible, i just want to be mean. like i said before: i want to destroy her life. or if not destroy then just make it a bit sh*ttier for a while.
because of my recent hurtful comments, she changed the settings on her blog so that comments don't get published until she's approved them. before that i was thinking of a timed, synchronized assault on her blog by all willing babblers (this is only fantasyland for now guys--let me have my imaginary fun).
since i can no longer do that now i'm thinking of writing to all of her colleagues and telling them what she did. i guess i desperately want to humiliate her.
anyway, she works in a suite of offices with other shrinks: i could write to them. i could also write to some doctors i know she is friends with, although they're more likely to see me as a nut. but her officemates, who i don't think even know her that well, that's not a bad idea.
it's something to mull over. maybe they will kick her out of the suite. that would be satisfying. i want to have an effect on her life. i want to mess it up. i want to make her sorry.
Posted by sunnydays on May 5, 2007, at 20:46:39
In reply to revenge fantasies, posted by crushedout on May 5, 2007, at 20:33:21
I'm so sorry you are hurting so bad from her actions, crushed. I just don't think trying to humiliate her would work. One possibility is she could sue you for slander. A second possibility is that it wouldn't have the intended effect, because if they know her and not you, they are more likely to take her side. Can you talk about these fantasies with your current T?
sunnydays
Posted by crushedout on May 5, 2007, at 21:09:00
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » crushedout, posted by sunnydays on May 5, 2007, at 20:46:39
yes, sunnydays, i can, i have, and i will talk to my current t. she wouldn't dare sue me for slander: for one thing, in order to win, what i say would have to be false. i would only tell the truth. and all a slander suit could do is hurt her career.
and i could sue her for malpractice.
and i'm a lawyer and she's an idiot.
also, i am not hurting. i am furious. but it doesn't hurt. it feels good.
> I'm so sorry you are hurting so bad from her actions, crushed. I just don't think trying to humiliate her would work. One possibility is she could sue you for slander. A second possibility is that it wouldn't have the intended effect, because if they know her and not you, they are more likely to take her side. Can you talk about these fantasies with your current T?
>
> sunnydays
Posted by crushedout on May 5, 2007, at 21:14:06
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » crushedout, posted by sunnydays on May 5, 2007, at 20:46:39
more: for all we know, her colleagues hate her. that wouldn't surprise me. and then they would be just as likely to believe me as anyone. besides, you don't realize what a persuasive writer i can be if i want to.
also, my ex-t is a lot of things, but she is not a liar. if i tell the truth, and then they ask her, did this really happen? she would have to say yes. and really, there is not much good spin you can put on her side of the story. especially when you're talking to other Ts who know what you are not supposed to do with clients.
finally, i just want to say, i'm exploring options right now. at the fantasy stage. why shoot everything down? someone work with me on this. let me enjoy it. please.
Posted by sunnydays on May 5, 2007, at 21:25:58
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » sunnydays, posted by crushedout on May 5, 2007, at 21:14:06
I'm sorry if I offended you. Feel free to enjoy it as much as you want. I truly didn't mean to offend you. I just didn't want something bad to happen is all. You are absolutely right, her colleagues might hate her. It's just that from what I've heard, the therapy profession tends to stick together quite a bit. But you could be absolutely right, obviously I have no way of knowing. I imagine it would be very satisfying to cause her as much torture as it seems she has put you through. I just want you to be careful so you don't get hurt is all.
sunnydays
P.S. I really am sorry. Anger is just a very hard emotion for me to deal with and to express. I've just yesterday gotten really angry at someone I needed to, so it's not a feeling I'm that familiar with. I need to stop commenting on Babble, whatever I say seems to make things worse for people. I'm sorry again. I sincerely was just trying to help.
Posted by crushedout on May 5, 2007, at 23:03:36
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » crushedout, posted by sunnydays on May 5, 2007, at 21:25:58
sunnydays, please don't stop commenting on babble. what you said did not offend me--i just had a strong reaction to it, probably in part because i'm so enraged at her.so thank you for your posts and i'm sorry i reacted so strongly.
Posted by Daisym on May 5, 2007, at 23:58:17
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies, posted by crushedout on May 5, 2007, at 21:09:00
I'm doing some of this around my dad -- spinning revenge fantasies that would curl your hair. Scares me to death that I have the capacity to even think of these things. But my therapist keeps saying the fantasy part is OK...it is OK to want to hurt someone back who hurt you.
One of the worst things about being a therapy client is that we have to worry about whether anyone will believe our side of any story. After all, we are "mental health" patients. Gasp. It is in Pfinstegg's post above (it was important that the new therapist believed her) and it is here too, Sunny is worrying about how people will perceive you. Stinks, I think.
And I'm certainly not going to talk to you about forgiveness. I can't even begin to entertain the idea, so I wouldn't ask you too. Just protect yourself, OK? Make sure she doesn't get to hurt you anymore, ever.
I have this picture of her frowning over her computer wondering, "who is this? Why is this person so angry with me?" I'm sure you've made her worry and wonder, Crushed, no matter what her blog says. Take comfort in that.
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 0:04:44
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » crushedout, posted by Daisym on May 5, 2007, at 23:58:17
thank you, daisy. it does feel so important to me that i have some power in this, that i can have some effect on her, after all the impact she has had on my life, most very bad. it helps to think that i've at least made her question, wonder, worry.
you're right that it's so hard to have our perspectives so easily dismissed as "mental patients." it's not fair at all really.
Posted by Happyflower on May 6, 2007, at 0:12:15
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » Daisym, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 0:04:44
How about getting voodoo doll, dress it up like her and put pins in it where you want, or use darts on a dartboard with her picture. Would those ideas work without hurting you legally or even more emotionally if she were to fight back?
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 0:17:53
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies, posted by Happyflower on May 6, 2007, at 0:12:15
that would work if i believed in voodoo. but as i've said before, i want to have an impact, i want my words to land. anything symbolic doesn't serve that function.but keep the ideas coming: i'm more interested in real "revenge" of some sort, although i agree that i don't want to get more hurt myself. so i will think any actions i take through carefully before i take them. at least, i hope i will.
Posted by Happyflower on May 6, 2007, at 0:29:18
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » Happyflower, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 0:17:53
Well okay, you want real revenge.... how about living your life so well without her that it shows her you don't need her or ever did? Maybe that is corney, but it works for me when I think about what I wanted to do to my mom who was a monster.
Posted by Happyflower on May 6, 2007, at 0:30:13
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » crushedout, posted by Happyflower on May 6, 2007, at 0:29:18
by the way I don't belive in voodoo either, but it sounds harmless. lol
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 0:35:32
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » crushedout, posted by Happyflower on May 6, 2007, at 0:29:18
that would be fine if i could find a way to shove it in her face and make sure it made her feel cr*ppy and inferior. otherwise, that's not revenge. that's just a good thing to do for myself.
Posted by Honore on May 6, 2007, at 10:01:28
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » Happyflower, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 0:35:32
From what I've read, revenge hasn't really helped. And my concern would be that it won't.
The person you're trying to hurt may not be feeling any of the things you imagine-- because even though you believe that you're inflicting some sort of retribution on her, if you think about it more deeply, you're not. You (the person writing abusive or insulting comments on her blog)--not you, the person she badly mishandled a therapy relationship with-- is probably someone she thinks of quite differently from the way you imagine or want.
What scares me is that you're the one who's suffering, not her. And the suffering is self-inflicted.
What I fear is that the longer you pretend that you're inflicting some sort of pain on her, the longer you'll be lacerating yourself in this futile attempt to salve the hurt that someone inflicted on you long ago.
It's painful to read your posts, so I can only imagine the turmoil all this acting out of rage must cause in you.
For your own sake, I would try to step back and see if there isn't some way that you can take care of yourself, and make yourself more important than her-- rather than destroying yourself in this endless wish to hurt her and thereby to be made whole. It's not going to make you whole-- this revenge.
You're only continuing the relationship with her-- continuing to go through this pain in the hope that something somehow can be regained, which you've lost-- and which you never really had.
Honore
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 10:06:13
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » crushedout, posted by Honore on May 6, 2007, at 10:01:28
Honore,I haven't been abusive in any of my posts. And I'm not in pain (how many times do I need to say this?).
Your perception that I am in pain is your own projection.
My revenge fantasy is to write an honest letter, from me, and she would know who it was from. And it would only tell the truth and not attack. It would just state the facts and that she harmed me. Period.
And right now it's just a fantasy and I want to have it and I'm asking you guys to help me fantasize, not just tell me that I have to stop.
I am not hurting myself--you have to believe me. This is a good thing and it's something I have to go through.
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 10:11:10
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » crushedout, posted by Honore on May 6, 2007, at 10:01:28
also, you don't realize how insecure she is. I'm sure that my posts (which I repeat were not abusive--only honest and hurtful to the extent that the truth hurts) had some effect on her.that's all i wanted. i want to irritate her, make her questions herself, make her just feel a little bad.
i have little doubt i've already succeeded, and that makes me happy.
people think revenge, meanness, and anger are bad--but maybe sometimes they are healthy! they certainly are normal.
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 10:24:13
In reply to Re: revenge fantasies » Daisym, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 0:04:44
I guess people are really uncomfortable with extreme anger and the idea of revenge, but this is something I'm going through and I need support for. This is a VERY healthy way for me to express all of this: here, to all of you. I get very testy when I feel like someone is discouraging me from expressing these desires because keeping them all in has been so destructive to me. Trust me. You have to believe me that I've been taking all this anger out on myself and right now I'm desperately trying to turn that around.I'm trying to do that with all of your support.
This is just an explanation for why I get cranky when people tell me what I'm doing is not healthy. What I was doing before wasn't healthy. I need to do this. Please help me to if you can. Otherwise, I don't need more lectures. They make me feel like a bad, dumb person. And I'm not.
Posted by Honore on May 6, 2007, at 10:35:05
In reply to why i'm touchy about this, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 10:24:13
We are trying to support you, crushedout.
I'm sorry if my attempt to be supportive didn't feel like support.
That's really all I can say, because when I personally have had that much anger at someone, it's been painful to me. So I'm speaking from my personal experience. I tend to believe that others are more like me than not-- but that may be a projection, I don't know.
Honore
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 10:40:28
In reply to Re: why i'm touchy about this » crushedout, posted by Honore on May 6, 2007, at 10:35:05
Honore,
You don't need to apologize. I knew that your intent was to help. I was just trying to explain why that sort of help is not what I need.
I'm fairly comfortable with anger, oddly enough. I know a lot of people aren't. And I think it's healthy to feel it, and that there are healthy ways to deal with it. I'm trying to do that. But I can't just make it go away before I'm ready. Otherwise, I'll just be right back here where I am in six months, or three years, or god knows.
I'm trying so hard to put this behind me. I think this could be my best shot.
crushed
Posted by Honore on May 6, 2007, at 11:19:27
In reply to Re: why i'm touchy about this » Honore, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 10:40:28
I personally find anger to be a painful emotion, as I was saying.
I'm not sure why, but I feel partly afraid of it, and partly angry at myself, even when I'm angry at the other person, as well as a deeper sense of pain and loss underneath that, and fear of more loss, when I'm angry.
So, while I may find some release in turning to a kind of greater rage, in which all those contradictory and frightening emotions are wiped out in my complete negation of the other person-- I guess that's what happens-- I'm not sure that that extreme emotion-- when I give in to it-- gets me away. I think it might leave me in the same place-- back in the more scary, and confusing anger that I escaped, or even back in the old sense of connection that was unhealthy.
I'm not sure-- I'm trying to figure it out myself.
If the other person is there, and is working with me through the rage or anger-- I've found some other places. But without the other person's help, anger is one of those things that maybe just has to burn itself out over long periods of time-- if it gets that intense.
I find that that's happened (the burning down and eventually more or less out)-- but I'm sure it would flare up if something reminded me of the other person in a more immediate way. I guess that's why it's good to be away-- to prevent there being anything that causes the anger and hurt to come closer to consciousness.
Maybe that's what happened here, when you found the blog. The rage and hurt were burning down-- and will continue to, I'm sure-- but the blog reawakened some of the terrible feelings of the connection.
So you're working them through in the best way you can.
I wondered, when did you find the blog-- approximately. (I wouldn't want you to give any identifying information, because I don't think it would be good for her to identify you, even if she couldn't take any action.) I just meant in terms of how long you've been going through this--
Honore
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 11:29:08
In reply to Re: why i'm touchy about this » crushedout, posted by Honore on May 6, 2007, at 11:19:27
It's been 2 1/2 years since i've interacted with her in any way. Since I left her as my therapist and moved on to my new one. And we haven't had contact since.
The thing is the blog didn't reignite any previous anger: because i never had any before. That's why it's so important that I go through this now. Anger is an important stage I think in the healing process.
Posted by Honore on May 6, 2007, at 13:41:13
In reply to Re: why i'm touchy about this » Honore, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 11:29:08
Anger is a stage, it's necessary and I suppose the question always is what to do with the anger.
Maybe what I'm feeling is that there isn't any one answer, or one thing you can do to completely extinguish it, or find some satisfying way of closure.
I suppose I might also wonder if anger makes you feel so good, do you want to feel angry for a long time, or is it a feeling you want to stop having?
If you did ruin your ex-T's life, do you really think it would make you feel better? I'm just not sure how it could, but I'd like to understand somewhat where you see it taking you. I've never tried to get any sort of revenge, beyond thinking bad thoughts and downgrading someone in my own estimation, or possibly telling other people the bad things I feel they've done to me. You've done that here, and I guess it didn't help that much. I dont know, but it seems dangerous to me to take revenge-- I feel as if it would be hard to live with the feeling that I was being so ruthless or destructive, even if I felt wronged. (I want to say I've been in situations like the one you were in with your T, so I'm not completely without any knowledge of how destructive therapy, or other people in powerful positions, can be.)
Could you say exactly what you imagine you would feel a day or a week after you ruined your ex T's life (as you had said you'd like to, if that is what you would like)? Do you think that really would take away whatever it was/ or is that causes you to want the revenge?
I'm really asking, because I'm not quite sure how one would feel after ruining someone else's life-- no matter what they did. Would it really feel good?
Honore
Posted by muffled on May 6, 2007, at 16:07:29
In reply to Re: why i'm touchy about this » Honore, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 11:29:08
Random ones...
I just trying to keep myself busy and out of trouble.
But I was cruising the archives bout your T, and those stupid archives are hard to dig thru, but I found some stuff. And as near as i can figger it would seem your T made sad bad errors in judgement. It seems she tried to be honest with you, but then maybe she screwed up and didn't handle it well. So beyond that, I'm not sure what happened? What have I missed? IS she pretty honest? IS she pretty sensitive? IS she the devil incarnate? Or did she just screw
up badly? Did she try and hurt you on purpose? Or again, was she just human? Its seems you got under her skin some? In which case she must have cared some?
So I don't think I found the posts that contain info about where it got to the point where you have such a need for revenge towards her? Where has this need for revenge COME from? What did she do that brought such intensity of anger towards her. WAS she evil? or was she just a screwup? Evil should be avoided,stupidity, well, mebbe just pity them their stupidness. I'm kinda stupid lotsa times, but I truly don't ever consciously mean to hurt noone....
I think maybe thats why so many are maybe missing the boat with this thread, cuz we don't understand what is the background to all this?
Take care, hope you can feel better soon.
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2007, at 18:41:11
In reply to Re: why i'm touchy about this » Honore, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2007, at 11:29:08
What does your therapist think about it?
My discomfort has more to do with your investing so much of yourself in this than the actual notion of revenge. I think in the end I choose not to take revenge, but I have been known to while away some time fantasizing about it.
Does your current therapist think it's a healthy use of your emotional capital?
Posted by crushedout on May 7, 2007, at 19:22:11
In reply to Re: why i'm touchy about this » crushedout, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2007, at 18:41:11
She doesn't presume to know. She accepts what I tell her: which is that this feels like something I need to go through, that it feels satisfying, and that it feels healthy.She realizes that this is just a fantasy at this point, and that I'm not going to do anything too crazy without thinking and talking it through carefully first.
> What does your therapist think about it?
>
> My discomfort has more to do with your investing so much of yourself in this than the actual notion of revenge. I think in the end I choose not to take revenge, but I have been known to while away some time fantasizing about it.
>
> Does your current therapist think it's a healthy use of your emotional capital?
>
>
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.