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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Happyflower on April 5, 2007, at 20:56:24
I hope you are okay. Check in okay. Get any waxing done lately? Not me EVER! LOL Thanks for a the great laugh! :-)
Posted by jammerlich on April 6, 2007, at 17:57:52
In reply to (((((((((((((((((((Jammerich))))))))))))))), posted by Happyflower on April 5, 2007, at 20:56:24
Thanks for asking about me.
Hard T yesterday with my own stuff, then she brought up something at the end that completely freaked me out about "us." Then, on the phone later, told her that things have been different seeing her this second time around....and not in a good way. That it seems too impersonal and that I know part of it is me because I'm afraid of her; but, that I've also been wondering if part of it is her. Also said that I know sometimes T's work with patients they don't really like and I'd really prefer she just tell me if that is the case for her.
There's lots more I wanted to say but I got all nervous and tongue tied. I'm supposed to write it out and have it with me next week. I might put some of it here, but I'm not sure anyone would find it too interesting. Needless to say, I'm not really looking forward to my next appointment.
Posted by Daisym on April 6, 2007, at 22:12:25
In reply to Difficult T this week, posted by jammerlich on April 6, 2007, at 17:57:52
Can I ask what she said? It has been my experience that therapists bring up stuff about how it feels with clients because they care. If they don't, they don't bring it into the mix. But it is hard and I always feel like I'm in trouble when he says, "I wanted to talk to you about..." Ug.
Writing is a good thing. It works for me.
Posted by 10derHeart on April 6, 2007, at 22:14:53
In reply to Difficult T this week, posted by jammerlich on April 6, 2007, at 17:57:52
>I might put some of it here, but I'm not sure anyone would find it too interesting.
Well, I would :-) And I hardly think I'd be alone. Besides, there's no Babble rule you must *interest* people, whatever the heck that would look like anyway!
Posters here will be interested because it's about you and your T., your therapy, and they care about you. Hope you do write more about it - maybe some of us could help, even if a small way.
I hate that you've been in such a difficult place for so long with this :-(
Posted by Honore on April 6, 2007, at 22:34:13
In reply to Difficult T this week, posted by jammerlich on April 6, 2007, at 17:57:52
I'd very much like to hear whatever happened.
I'm sorry the session was difficult, but I have a feeling that this discussion has been looming, or brewing, and that it's important to do whatever it takes to push through the fear, and concerns, and reasons to question her caring. It's so important for you to work through whatever it is that's come between you.
Whether it's you-- or her concerns-- or whatever-- and I don't think it's that she doesn't care-- it seems as if bringing it out into the open has to be done.
I know it's scary; I'd be every bit as afraid as you are--
And like 10der said-- who said you have to be 'interesting"? Those of us who care-- and I think it's many of us here- are looking to hear from you-- that's what matters.
It's great, though, that you said what you said-- that took a lot of guts.
{{{Jammer}}}
Honore
Posted by Iwillsurvive on April 6, 2007, at 23:52:58
In reply to Difficult T this week, posted by jammerlich on April 6, 2007, at 17:57:52
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jammmer!!!!!!!!
Hard session but GOOD!
WOW!
I'm so glad your getting into some of this stuff.
Good for you!
Yes its hard, the most healing, relationship progressing stuff seems to always be so hard, but worth it.
Man you DO got guts.
I hope it goes ok for you and you don't feel too bad, but remember you will feel better. This hard stuff is hard but good.
I'm thrilled you were able to speak as much as you did.
Writing really works for me. I kinda blank out unless I got writings to follow.
Take care,
And I too would love to hear how it goes for you. Its helps others when you post stuff cuz then they can learn too.
Posted by Jeff Smith on April 7, 2007, at 7:45:16
In reply to Difficult T this week, posted by jammerlich on April 6, 2007, at 17:57:52
> Thanks for asking about me.
>
> Hard T yesterday with my own stuff, then she brought up something at the end that completely freaked me out about "us." Then, on the phone later, told her that things have been different seeing her this second time around....and not in a good way. That it seems too impersonal and that I know part of it is me because I'm afraid of her; but, that I've also been wondering if part of it is her. Also said that I know sometimes T's work with patients they don't really like and I'd really prefer she just tell me if that is the case for her.
>
> There's lots more I wanted to say but I got all nervous and tongue tied. I'm supposed to write it out and have it with me next week. I might put some of it here, but I'm not sure anyone would find it too interesting. Needless to say, I'm not really looking forward to my next appointment.
Well... I hate to sound too nosey since we don't know each other and I don't know anything about your relationship w/ your T, but this is honestly all fascinating for me and I too would love to hear your thoughts (and also her answer to your request that she tell you if she likes you/working w/ you).
I know exactly how that would feel... it would be impossible for me to see a shrink who I thought was happy with me (or worse yet just didnt like me).And this whole business about your T bringing up something that you weren't even talking about (and also requesting you write things out for next time) is also fascinating to me: You mean she actually pays enough attention to you to be able to independently come to her own conclusion on something about you/ your relationship with her, and then bring it up on her own? : )
Sort of a silly question, but honestly I would be thrilled to have a T know and understand me enough to give feedback like that (of course only provided that she was correct about what she said/Say's and was making sense).
Obviously I have no clue if she's good for you or not, but I'm impressed by her at least paying attention when you could instead be dealing with the "talking to a brick wall syndrome".Good luck with her... and do spill those beans here! ; )
Really though, I find learning about the way people think and behave, etc, in all situations fascinating and I'm sure lots of people would be interested in your thoughts and experiences.That's a reason this is a great place... since where else can you go and talk about and analyze the minutia (or "non minutia") of everything one's thinking/feeling without having most people think you're (*insert "crazy" and/or various other unpleasant thoughts/judgements here*)... not to at all imply you are any of those things but Im sure you know what I mean(?).
Posted by jammerlich on April 7, 2007, at 9:29:03
In reply to Re: Difficult T this week » jammerlich, posted by Jeff Smith on April 7, 2007, at 7:45:16
Thank you all for reading and for your kind words. Sometimes I feel like such a bore and like I don't really have anything to contribute here. But, I do know that people here understand more than anyone else and I thank you for reminding me of that time and time again.
Ok, so here's what happened at the end of the session. For anyone who didn't read about it, I was supposed to meet with her Tuesday; but, called and cancelled just before the appointment. I'd also called last week for her and and, by the time I actually talked to her, just wanted to wait until Tuesday to talk about it. Anyway, at the end of the session she brought up how I'd cancelled, without giving any kind of explanation, and how, given that I'd called the week before she was concerned. I asked how she'd prefer me to handle it, and she said to give the secretary a reason because based on what I'd said (which was "I'm not going to be able to make my appointment") she didn't "know what that means."
Ok, I do have a little problem with that; but, generally, it's not a big deal. But, she didn't stop with that. She went on to say that when she saw me before (meaning before she terminated me for not taking AD's), she'd call and she didn't "want to get into all that again." THAT is what really upset me because it felt like she was saying *I* had done something wrong back then. And you know what? I never ASKED her to do that. That was something SHE started. And since it was her thing, I'm not sure why she felt the need to even mention it Thursday.....unless she thought *I* was somehow to blame.
The other thing it makes me think about is how things are not at all the same this time... the impersonal part, for lack of a better word, and whether any of that is coming from her. I guess I think it could be evidence that she is, indeed, holding back or being "different." Other little things that didn't used to happen....she's nearly always 10+ minutes late bringing me into her office, sessions are often less than 50 minutes, she's taken calls during my session. Those things were rare before and she NEVER took a call the first time around.
I know I'm probably overly sensitive because I have been terrified since Day One that she'd terminate me again if I made a misstep. So, I've held back myself; but, I've also been looking closely to see if she's the same. And she's not. Not at all. I didn't always want to go the first time around; but, at least when I was there, I didn't feel quite so alone. Now, I feel pretty much on my own, even in her office. Well, that's how I feel all the time and I can do that for free.
Most of this I didn't say on the phone. All that was said is what I wrote in my first post. As for my telling her I'd prefer to know if she didn't like working with me, she said that was not the case at all. That she had full choice when I called asking to come back; and, that she was glad I was checking it out with her. I guess I still wonder whether she regrets that decision at all. That's probably another question to ask; but, I'm not sure I have that much more courage. And I'm sure a "normal" person would have been assuaged with "that's not the case at all."
And as far as my thoughts about leaving a reason for cancelling with the secretary or answering service (the only options there are), I'm not sure whether to say anything about that, either. If that's where I'm leaving the message, I'm always going to say something reassuring, even if it's not true. It's not like I'm going to tell someone with whom I have no relationship that things are really bad or that I'm feeling suicidal or whatever. I can't promise I'd be completely honest if I were telling my T; but, it's definitely more likely.
Posted by gazo on April 7, 2007, at 13:47:13
In reply to Re: Difficult T this week (long), posted by jammerlich on April 7, 2007, at 9:29:03
Oh jammer.. at such a difficult time in your life it's more than unfair to have to deal with this.
You are going to need to deal with this in a big way i think. The termination last time is inexcusable IMO. It's no wonder you doubt her and feel like she might abandon you..cuz um... she did! How can you re-establish trust? right now, given everything else, trust is something you *need.*
You need and DESERVE trust, care and attention. You DESERVE to matter and not feel a luke-warm response. Those are big issues in your life and she should know that. It's her job.
i don't know jammer.. only you can tell if she is going to work out for you. If you want to stay with her then something has got to change in the dynamic. You need to feel secure. i hope that is not overstepping in any way.
you deserve so much better than life has handed you right now. Do remember that while a T holds a lot of power in the relationship, she works for you and you have every right to make decisions that are in your benefit.
take gentle care of yourself.
Posted by Happyflower on April 7, 2007, at 16:46:52
In reply to Difficult T this week, posted by jammerlich on April 6, 2007, at 17:57:52
Hi Jammer,
When is your next appointment this week? It sounds like you have a lot of tough stuff to work out with your T.
I think your story is interesting, that is why I asked how you were. You are going through a unbelieveable hard time right now, and if we can help, we would love to try. But ya gotta tell us what is going on. :-)
Have you told her you felt she was impersonal this time around? About those phone calls during your session, that is not suppose to happen. If my T ever ran over his session before me with someone, he never has short exchanged our time together. I think he used part of his lunch as a bumper before the 2nd half of his day. I hope you are okay. Keep posting okay?
Hugs,
Happyflower
Posted by jammerlich on April 8, 2007, at 15:14:29
In reply to Re: Difficult T this week » jammerlich, posted by Happyflower on April 7, 2007, at 16:46:52
Or is it me?
Posted by Jeff Smith on April 8, 2007, at 17:33:46
In reply to Re: Difficult T this week (long), posted by jammerlich on April 7, 2007, at 9:29:03
> Thank you all for reading and for your kind words. Sometimes I feel like such a bore and like I don't really have anything to contribute here. But, I do know that people here understand more than anyone else and I thank you for reminding me of that time and time again.
>
> Ok, so here's what happened at the end of the session. For anyone who didn't read about it, I was supposed to meet with her Tuesday; but, called and cancelled just before the appointment. I'd also called last week for her and and, by the time I actually talked to her, just wanted to wait until Tuesday to talk about it. Anyway, at the end of the session she brought up how I'd cancelled, without giving any kind of explanation, and how, given that I'd called the week before she was concerned. I asked how she'd prefer me to handle it, and she said to give the secretary a reason because based on what I'd said (which was "I'm not going to be able to make my appointment") she didn't "know what that means."
>
> Ok, I do have a little problem with that; but, generally, it's not a big deal. But, she didn't stop with that. She went on to say that when she saw me before (meaning before she terminated me for not taking Ad's), she'd call and she didn't "want to get into all that again." THAT is what really upset me because it felt like she was saying *I* had done something wrong back then. And you know what? I never ASKED her to do that. That was something SHE started. And since it was her thing, I'm not sure why she felt the need to even mention it Thursday.....unless she thought *I* was somehow to blame.
>
> The other thing it makes me think about is how things are not at all the same this time... the impersonal part, for lack of a better word, and whether any of that is coming from her. I guess I think it could be evidence that she is, indeed, holding back or being "different." Other little things that didn't used to happen....she's nearly always 10+ minutes late bringing me into her office, sessions are often less than 50 minutes, she's taken calls during my session. Those things were rare before and she NEVER took a call the first time around.
>
> I know I'm probably overly sensitive because I have been terrified since Day One that she'd terminate me again if I made a misstep. So, I've held back myself; but, I've also been looking closely to see if she's the same. And she's not. Not at all. I didn't always want to go the first time around; but, at least when I was there, I didn't feel quite so alone. Now, I feel pretty much on my own, even in her office. Well, that's how I feel all the time and I can do that for free.
>
> Most of this I didn't say on the phone. All that was said is what I wrote in my first post. As for my telling her I'd prefer to know if she didn't like working with me, she said that was not the case at all. That she had full choice when I called asking to come back; and, that she was glad I was checking it out with her. I guess I still wonder whether she regrets that decision at all. That's probably another question to ask; but, I'm not sure I have that much more courage. And I'm sure a "normal" person would have been assuaged with "that's not the case at all."
>
> And as far as my thoughts about leaving a reason for cancelling with the secretary or answering service (the only options there are), I'm not sure whether to say anything about that, either. If that's where I'm leaving the message, I'm always going to say something reassuring, even if it's not true. It's not like I'm going to tell someone with whom I have no relationship that things are really bad or that I'm feeling suicidal or whatever. I can't promise I'd be completely honest if I were telling my T; but, it's definitely more likely.
>
>Hey hammerlich, : )
It's probably just the holiday weekend and everyones busy... and it's not just you!! Don't worry I'd be thinking the same worrying thoughts "Is it me?" too...So if you don't mind I just have a few comments about your above post.
-As for your calling and saying "I'm not going to be able to make my appointment" I think it's pretty self explanatory as to what "that means" (isn't it?). I took it as meaning youre not going to be going to your appointment that day... so what else could it mean that your T didnt understand?Unless she meant she just didn't know what your reason for not being able to make it was and would prefer you leave your reason with the secretary (which in that case I agree with what you said: Who's gonna want to divulge to the secretary their most personal feelings/reason for not wanting to show up? I certainly wouldnt).
-I don't know your history w/ her (your T) but from what I'm reading here she apparently terminated your relationship in the past because you wouldnt take Ad's???
I can't see how the h*ll that was supposed to have been helpful to you??? Not taking the Ad's and going to therapy is still better (IMO) than not taking them and ALSO not having a T to go to (unless I just miss the logic behind her reasoning?).
I wish I could offer any advice or more feedback but I don't really know anything about you/your situation and your prior (or current) relationship w/ her... so I can only comment on what little I've read here.-As for the bringing you into her office 10 minutes late every time?!?
Well I can see once or twice or maybe three times (if she gave a good reason for it) however there's no excuse to do it continually and with no explanation(?). I know I feel 50 minutes isnt even enough per session- so if it's being cut down then I'd not be happy either.
And I'm guessing she probably earns one or two dollars per minute so all those extra 10 minutes in the waiting room add up financially as well.And taking calls? That I could see if it's an emergency that only she can handle at that very moment, but otherwise she's got the secretary (and probably voice mail) so the taking calls doesnt seem too appropriate either.
-I also wouldnt care to have to walk on egg shells (ESPECIALLY w/ a shrink)in fear of another termination. How could you possibly be yourself and open up about everything if you have to live under that fear/pressure?
-OK, so all those things would bother me too, however I do like the fact that you told her you'd prefer to know if she didnt like working with you and she said that wasnt the case and that she had full choice to accept you back or not. Really, if she didnt like you or like working with you then I cant see that she would "take you back", so that would put my mind at ease.
But I still dont care for the idea that she terminated you in the first place and you then had to ask to come back(?!?)Again, I dont know the situation or her rationale but that just doesnt sound very nice or helpful (to terminate you).
Is there a reason you'd prefer to stay w/ her rather than see anyone else?
Posted by Jeff Smith on April 8, 2007, at 17:38:07
In reply to Re: Difficult T this week (long) » jammerlich, posted by Jeff Smith on April 8, 2007, at 17:33:46
Posted by Daisym on April 9, 2007, at 1:47:58
In reply to Re: Difficult T this week (long), posted by jammerlich on April 7, 2007, at 9:29:03
Ok, I do have a little problem with that; but, generally, it's not a big deal. But, she didn't stop with that. She went on to say that when she saw me before (meaning before she terminated me for not taking AD's), she'd call and she didn't "want to get into all that again." THAT is what really upset me because it felt like she was saying *I* had done something wrong back then. And you know what? I never ASKED her to do that. That was something SHE started. And since it was her thing, I'm not sure why she felt the need to even mention it Thursday.....unless she thought *I* was somehow to blame.
****I think you need to tell her that you didn't quite get what she meant when she said this. Get into what? I'd want to know if she resented calling me, and if so, why? I also don't think it is fair nor helpful for her to be throwing the past at you.
The other thing it makes me think about is how things are not at all the same this time... the impersonal part, for lack of a better word, and whether any of that is coming from her. I guess I think it could be evidence that she is, indeed, holding back or being "different." Other little things that didn't used to happen....she's nearly always 10+ minutes late bringing me into her office, sessions are often less than 50 minutes, she's taken calls during my session. Those things were rare before and she NEVER took a call the first time around.
*****I know other people have said it, but these are indicators that she should be aware of - counter-transference perhaps, but rudeness if nothing else. There is no excuse for anything short of an emergency interrupting your sessions. I don't understand how you can't get to her to leave a message about canceling your session but other folks get through during your session? As far as being late, again, I'd ask her about this. If not directly, I might say, "I've noticed that you are often about 10 minutes late for my sessions. Maybe we should move my starting time so you don't feel so rushed and I don't think you are avoiding me." I think she'll get the message.
I know I'm probably overly sensitive because I have been terrified since Day One that she'd terminate me again if I made a misstep. So, I've held back myself; but, I've also been looking closely to see if she's the same. And she's not. Not at all. I didn't always want to go the first time around; but, at least when I was there, I didn't feel quite so alone. Now, I feel pretty much on my own, even in her office. Well, that's how I feel all the time and I can do that for free.
****Tell her. Tell her. Tell her. What have you got to lose if you feel this way? How much therapy is actually getting done when you feel so alone? This is not OK, and I'm sure she wouldn't want this. Maybe you can't undo the first termination. But certainly it needs to be talked about.
Most of this I didn't say on the phone. All that was said is what I wrote in my first post. As for my telling her I'd prefer to know if she didn't like working with me, she said that was not the case at all. That she had full choice when I called asking to come back; and, that she was glad I was checking it out with her. I guess I still wonder whether she regrets that decision at all. That's probably another question to ask; but, I'm not sure I have that much more courage. And I'm sure a "normal" person would have been assuaged with "that's not the case at all."
****I think you should keep talking about this. I would ask if she has regrets it. I'd ask it a bunch of times.
And as far as my thoughts about leaving a reason for cancelling with the secretary or answering service (the only options there are), I'm not sure whether to say anything about that, either. If that's where I'm leaving the message, I'm always going to say something reassuring, even if it's not true. It's not like I'm going to tell someone with whom I have no relationship that things are really bad or that I'm feeling suicidal or whatever. I can't promise I'd be completely honest if I were telling my T; but, it's definitely more likely.
**** I completely understand this and so should she. No way would I leave messages with someone else for my therapist. What happened to privacy in therapy? Maybe you can agree to a few sentences that clue her in if you are feeling really bad. I bet you aren't the only client who feels this way.
I'm sorry things are so hard right now. I would be taking it all personally too, how could you not? Have you considered seeing someone else, even for a consultation? It is important to push yourself to be honest about all this, I think. Otherwise, how will it ever get better?
Posted by Iwillsurvive on April 9, 2007, at 11:12:02
In reply to Re: Difficult T this week (long) » jammerlich, posted by Daisym on April 9, 2007, at 1:47:58
You not alone. We babblers w/you. Imagine us behind you when you in T. We egging you on. We behind you. We your backup. We cronies. OK?
Keep the momentum going if you can.
Babblers been posting good stuff for you. They experienced w/T, good advice to get ahead.
Yup you definately need some answers from this T of yours.
Thinking of you Jammer. You take care.
This is the end of the thread.
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