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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by widget on March 16, 2007, at 12:48:26
Yesterday, I hit my bottom. I realize I have a transference toward my psychiatrist but I also insist these feelings are mixed with REAL feelings of affection, love, etc. Sorting them out is going to be difficult. I'm sure I will with time.
But, the worst part was when I said "I am more attatched to you than you are to me." He sadly and slowly shook his head yes. I am devestated. And, I wasn't expecting him to have a sexual relationship with me, just to be more than another patient to him. It hurts incredibly. I started to cry, which is unusual for me in session, I think because I want to look ok so he WILL be more attatched to me, or attracted to me. But, all bets are off now. There is nothing I can do to make him care more for me. This is exactly like it was with my father, except my father was mean and really scary. But, my psychiatrist is warm, caring, empathetic, unconditionally accepting of me. I guess his wonderful behavior triggered an expectation in me that, aha, I could be loved. And, he makes it harder saying things like I am truly lovable (so, why don't you love me? Haven't you just contradicted yourself?) He said I was a diamond, unrecognized by my family especially as a child. So, they threw the diamond onto the trash heap. And, he came along and recognized the diamond. That I am truly diamond quality. But, he's not available to me in even the most nonthreatening way. The truth that came out is that he just doesn't have special feelings for me. I have been dancing around that feared admission for 8 months. I have been incredibly creative in reading into his statements some message of his special feelings for me. And, I have been so wrong!! What a fool! I am brokenhearted. I am broken. He wants to see me twice a week but there are no appointments and he thinks he can make it happen. I don't believe it will. I am not a suicidal person but I wonder why not? What's it matter? I guess I was happier in my delusional state than with reality, although I was extremely frustrated.
I feel betrayed and as if I have been tricked.I have bought and read numerous books on the therapy process which I am tempted to just give or offer to him because they have done me no good.
I guess I want to make a gesture to let him know how dire things are, truly they are. Like putting the books in his trashcan. Surely, I can do better than that. But, I give up in a way.So, things have changed in therapy for me. He said we would ultimately make a list of my wish/fear combos and then, address them so that I could meet my own needs. That instead of looking for someone to fill my emptiness left by my dad, I would fill those needs myself. That was about as appealing as eating a bowl of worms. I just looked at him. I said, "So, you will be like a car mechanic for me?" He said, oh no. But, that is what it feels like. Stay in the here and now, he says. It sounds so mechanical, so boring and hard. Why can't I ever get someone to meet at least some of the developmental needs I never, never had met when it WAS appropriate to get them met?
NO FAIR! Because, I had a loser father I get cheated over and over again. But, hey, its reality, right? I feel bitter, I feel broken, I feel really angry, I feel the death of hope.So, I've been a fool. I allowed myself to become attatched (the supposed goal of therapy) and it took 3 1/2 years, to become exquisitely vulnerable, totally honest about my feelings for this man and for what? To learn to give it up. To walk away from it. Was it better when I was numb? It was safer. And, I thought my feelings were my friends, ha!
I cry a lot. I am so very sad. There is no hope nor way out. Thanks for reading this long post, Widget
Posted by Dinah on March 16, 2007, at 13:42:17
In reply to I may not survive my therapy, posted by widget on March 16, 2007, at 12:48:26
> But, the worst part was when I said "I am more attatched to you than you are to me." He sadly and slowly shook his head yes. I am devestated. And, I wasn't expecting him to have a sexual relationship with me, just to be more than another patient to him.
I think you're making a leap there that you don't need to make. I *know* beyond a doubt that I am more than another patient to my therapist. I know that by virtue of our long relationship and the work we've put in it, I'm special to him.
I also know, and he'll agree, that I'm more attached to him than he is to me. He says that it's inevitable. That he is a major part of my support network, and that I am not a major part of his, nor should I be. When I'm upset, I look to him. When he's upset, he looks to others, as well he should.
I'm ok with that, I think. I sometimes want to measure the difference, because I'm ok with being, say, five times as much more attached than he is, but not a thousand times. I want there to be some attachment on his side.
But to be honest, if he *was* as attached to you as you were to him, he couldn't do therapy very well. He can care for you very much and find you special. But I don't think there is any way to compare a client's attachment to their therapist with the therapist's attachment to even their most special clients.
Posted by canadagirl on March 17, 2007, at 16:59:05
In reply to I may not survive my therapy, posted by widget on March 16, 2007, at 12:48:26
You are an important person in your T's life, of course you are, you and all of us make an impression on who we meet and deal with, especially in such an intimate relationship as therapy. I think sometimes therapists take the reality testing a bit far in that yes, we need to hear the truth but maybe tempered with a few nice-to-hear things too. It's a process to fill our own needs and we have to start somewhere but it certainly doesn't happen overnight. And if we were so good at doing that we'd be doing it already. It's hard to be attached and normal to want it to be reciprocated. It's normal!
Your T cares about you, maybe he didn't word it as well as he could have but recognizing that you are diamond is lovely. I think you will be able to work through this with him and it will be something that will strengthen your relationship. Hang in there.
Posted by Iwillsurvive on March 18, 2007, at 23:00:52
In reply to I may not survive my therapy, posted by widget on March 16, 2007, at 12:48:26
I posted, but it got lost in this slowness of babble.
Gotta run right now, just wondered how you holding up?
Posted by madeline on March 19, 2007, at 4:25:29
In reply to I may not survive my therapy, posted by widget on March 16, 2007, at 12:48:26
Oh yeah. I know exactly what you are going through.
I went through a very very painful period in therapy, where I felt my love for my therapist was unrequited. I struggled and struggled and hurt and hurt and hurt. But I made it through to resolution and maybe I can offer you some hope.
My T sounds very similar to yours. When I was with him I felt so very loved - he was complimentary, patient, understanding - he seemed to see something in me that no one else had ever seen. It WAS like the child in me just reached out so much to him and he reached back.
When this happens to us in therapy, I think it only natural that we want more of that love. But then comes the realization that we aren't going to get it, followed by wave after wave of pain, rejection, frustration and anger.
During one session I made the statement "That there was no love in therapy". My therapist replied that "without love, there is no therapy".
What I had to do was grieve (and I mean grieve) the fact that my therapist was not the love of my life.
Every week I forced myself to go to therapy and swallow my pride and just let it all out. Through it all, he was consistently kind, and complimentary (which at the time I viewed as torture and begged him to stop - he didn't).
But bit by bit, through the hurt, I began to internalize what he said. THoughts like "Maybe I am special, maybe I am beautiful, maybe I am worth something." began to creep into my head. "this guy, even though he's not going to love me the way I want, certainly seems to think so".
The hurt began to wane, and I also began to realize that the relationship that I already had with my T was enough. It was more than enough.
There was one person that thought the world of me no matter how weepy, clingy, slobbery and angry I was.
I can promise you that your therapist loves you. I can also promise you that he wants what's best for you and that he wants you to be loved and cared for outside of therapy. I can also promise you that he really does think you are a diamond who deserves the best.
I know you may feel very vulnerable and emotionally overextended right now, but I know you got the courage to see this through.
It certainly gets worse before it gets better, but I can not tell you how much better my life is because I loved my therapist.
I can love myself now, and I have been open to love from other people in a way I never thought possible. I've had some wonderful, intimate relationships with men in which I surprised myself at how deeply I really could care for another human being.
And, you know what? When, for one reason or another they didn't work out, I wasn't devastated, but was centered enough to still be myself and could navigate the hurt from an ended relationship.
If you want to talk about this further, do not hesitate to babblemail me or keep posting.
Take good good care
Maddie
Posted by widget on March 19, 2007, at 10:50:48
In reply to Widget, how goes it? » widget, posted by Iwillsurvive on March 18, 2007, at 23:00:52
Hi, thanks for the reply; I really appreciate it. Well, I'm not as "at bottom" as I was when I wrote that post. So, I guess I am surviving. I'm not sure what to say except it will be difficult seeing my therapist again. I will see him in a different way; more a nuts and bolts way. Here I am, fix me, or tell me how to be fixed and I'll move on. It seems less personal,less creative, less interesting, less exciting and more cut and dry. I still feel like giving him my psychology books which I have been reading to try to understand the process I'm going through but what help have they been? And, if he just doesn't have as connected a feeling to me as I to him, well, I realize I can't make someone feel something that is not there. I think I'm just rambling here. But, I so appreciate your concern. There really is no one else to discuss this with as friends seem to have enough difficulty digesting the fact I see a psychiatrist. Isn't that weird? But, with some who I trust, I can see something change in their eyes when I tell them about being in therapy. I don't really know what it means but it just makes me feel more alone. I could certainly not tell them about my deep attachment issues for this psychiatrist. So, I'm still waiting to hear from his office that they have found me a second appointment this week. He seemed to feel it was really important that I come twice perhaps because I was so, so deeply sad, in tears, broken at the end of the session. But, if he can't get the time, oh well. Thanks again, Widget
Posted by gazo on March 20, 2007, at 23:26:05
In reply to Re: Widget, how goes it?, posted by widget on March 19, 2007, at 10:50:48
Oh boy, do I get what you are saying. I hope I can be direct without offending or upsetting you. You can tell me to shag off and i'd be cool with that :o)
I honestly think that after all the hard work you owe it to yourself to keep going, even if for a bit longer. I honestly think you might be on the verge of a break through. I think it is very important you continue and discuss with him how devastated you are at not being THE special client.
he obviously cares about you and i imagine you are special in many ways.
The thing is, it's that child with unmet needs who is upset and angry inside of you. The child who does not want to share the pdoc's attention with anyone, or least be more special. I hope that doesn't sound harsh, it's not meant to.
but just as a child learns to share so can your inner child. It won't continue to be painful if you deal with it.
i know this might sound like BS coming from the gal madly obssessed with her T, but it's easier from the outside.
be gentle with yourself, soothe that child in you.
Posted by 10derHeart on March 23, 2007, at 10:41:15
In reply to Re: I may not survive my therapy » widget, posted by madeline on March 19, 2007, at 4:25:29
Maddie,
That was an amazing post. You really have a way of cutting to the heart of things while at the same time being so compassionate and warm. You r experience of therapy can give others much hope.
I am going to save this post to reread in the future. Thanks for making the effort to write these things. You may never realize how many you are touching besides the just the one you are replying to. (yikes! bad grammar)
-- 10derHeart
Posted by madeline on March 23, 2007, at 16:20:17
In reply to Re: I may not survive my therapy » madeline, posted by 10derHeart on March 23, 2007, at 10:41:15
Thank you 10derheart. You have no idea how much it means to me that my experiences may have the potential to help others.
It makes it all even more worthwhile.
Maddie
Posted by widget on March 25, 2007, at 21:11:19
In reply to Re: Widget, how goes it?//widget, posted by gazo on March 20, 2007, at 23:26:05
Dear Gazo, No problem, you haven't said anything so bad. I am obsessed with my psychiatrist. I do want to be very, very special to him. I know I'm onto something but I've never hurt like I do now. Of course, I probably did but its been buried in childhood to protect myself. It is so powerful that it scares me. I feel so alone, so cut off, and truly hopeless, like why bother, really? And, I'm resorting to my old defense mechanism to stop feelings which is to be REALLY busy. I'm accomplishing a lot right now which is really ironic. I remember how I used to seem to have so much energy and did more and more. After therapy started and I connected, I could relax and let lots of things go, perhaps too much. But, I was so much more at peace. I want to let him know how much he has hurt me and, yet, I want to be very cool, icy. Like, ok, lets just handles this like a business deal.
My husband asked me (he doesn't know the part about my love for my psychiatrist; just thinks I think he is my daddy--ok, that's close) if I was going to shrivel up like a raisin and die(he said very kindly). I said no, I had decided to simply not have strong emotions anymore. He asked me how the two were different. Such insight!
But, I have demeaned myself so many times in front of this therapist until he finally is straight with me that he just isn't as attached to me as I to him. So, where do I go from that? I'd like to tell him I don't need him and he'll regret his lack of interest. But, it won't make any difference. I really do not know how to relate to him now. I see him tomorrow. He was sick all last week which was one very loooong week.
I helps me tremendously to know someone else has been down this road. I didn't see it coming until I was truly smitten, walking on clouds. Thanks, friend.
Posted by gazo on March 26, 2007, at 14:42:00
In reply to Re: Widget, how goes it?//widget, posted by widget on March 25, 2007, at 21:11:19
Awwww, you're welcome :) That is sweet.
I am sorry I didn't see this until now, maybe your appt is over already.
I think figuring out how to relate to him is the break through I mentioned. Maybe some part of you was denied that specialness at some point.. either way you didn't get what you needed. That is why I think you need to keep going, to see that he does still care and will still be there for you as always. I think maybe you will feel better if the relationship stays strong.
Of course, I could be full of it ;o)
I know what you are saying.. it is so powerful and it hurts so much. It's crippling. I see my former T for the last time tomorrow.
Posted by widget on August 24, 2007, at 13:11:58
In reply to Re: Widget, how goes it?//widget, posted by widget on March 25, 2007, at 22:11:19
I hope I'm posting at the right place. I've been having trouble finding the posts regarding issues in therapy. I just posted to what seemed to be more of a medication issue place. Anyway, I am still stuck in "transference" which I see more as feelings of real love. Sure, I understand the concept of transference and realize it does apply to me but that's not all that's going on.
I haven't posted in quite a long time. I am now because the transference thing is back. I guess I just need to accept it. It is there. My therapist is so kind and gentle. I am experiencing an attachment unlike any other I have ever had. No wonder I think he's wonderful.
I was on vacation recently when I kept hearing my therapist's voice saying, "I could never leave my wife." And, being so very angry about this. He said that way back and here it is popping up unbidden and unwanted. Then, I had a dream where the song"Love Changes Everything". I woke up in a cold sweat, angry and terribly sad (tears) because love has changed nothing! And, it won't go away.
I know there are no easy answers, but if anyone out there can relate to this situation, it would be great to hear how you cope. I am looking for support so please be kind! I can't just "get over it."
This is the end of the thread.
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