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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 17:13:28
My oldT got to hear about it in one particularly anxiety-stricken session and said off-hand - well, maybe we'll do some CBT work on that later, when you're doing a little better. Later, we had the hilarious discussion that went kind of like this:
Me: how do I break this habit (I had told him about me wrecking my cuticles periodically, and about how much it distressed me)
Him: Well, I guess you're going to have to figure out what triggers you to do this.
Me: Well, I know who I learned it from. But I don't know how to stop. It's when I'm really anxious, or whenever I am watching some intense movie or TV show.
Him: Well, you need something else to do with your hands. When I was trying to quit smoking I had (? sorry don't remember!?) and it was hard, but I did it.
Me: So, what you're saying is that I need to take up smoking? (jokingly)
Him: Well, that's one option (laughing). I think our time is up...
Me: Okay see you next week.
(so. I didn't get the impression that he was particularly concerned with my distress. When cuticle picking evolved into cutting a few weeks later, and my nails were at their all-time nastiest, and I started punching myself, I didn't feel like he would really have any interest in this development either, so I never told him, and I wore long-sleeves for many weeks.)
**************
Here's how this discussion went with pdoc
pdoc: you mentioned something in your e-mail about anxiety? you are biting your nails?
me: (anxiously) yes. (hangs head in shame)
pdoc: you know, the cymbalta should help with that. I'd be interested to see how it helps.
me: oh. okay.
pdoc: anything else?
*************
NewT: Tell me about what you do when you feel anxious.
Me: um, one of the things I might do is to cut myself.
NewT: How do you do that? What do you use? etc.
Then today she asked more about my anxiety. I told her about little triggers in my peripheral vision, about how overhearing an argument stresses me out, and about how sometimes my mind is just out of control, playing really bad movies over and over again--
that I'd do *almost* anything to make those thoughts stop. "like what?", she asked. I told her about how I went on the 3 hour SI binge on Wednesday. How I started off just picking at a little hangnail and by the end of the evening, I had accumulated all of the sharp tools in the house, and had picked or cut at all the bunps and blemishes I could find. That I didn't hurt myself very badly, but that it was ugly and I had sore spots.
NewT: have you told your pdoc about these flashbacks and anxiety symptoms?
Me: Um, I guess not in that much detail. I just say that I'm feeling really anxious, and that almost everything is a trigger sometimes, and I feel really panicky sometimes, and... and he always says that he's not sure about giving me something for anxiety. and I don't know what to tell him, what is relevant. (note: pdoc doesn't really know about my SI. I guess it's time. I'm kind of hurting right now.)
Yesterday was really the worst. I was having these vivid waking nightmares, and the only way I could distract myself was to fantasize about dismembering myself and WORSE, if you can imagine. I wrote curtm an message about this earlier. I even grossed out curtm!!! lol. And today it seems almost UNREAL that I felt so out-of-control only 24 hours ago!
oh goody. I guess I will figure out how to get in touch with my pdoc before my appt. in 6 days. I dunno if he'll be available, but at least I can think about this clearly now. my newT helped me organize these things in my head clearly for the first time. So? That's some progress I guess. I should write it down before I forget. Oh wait! I just did!
And this freakin post is just about long enough already. Thank you for your patience with me, dear reader :o)
-Li
Posted by muffled on September 29, 2006, at 17:59:22
In reply to My newT is asking about SI (long as usual), posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 17:13:28
Well it sounds like you got a good crew.
I used to want to tear open my chest, to rip the bad out. Its weird isn't it. How you can totally see yourself doing it. And it feels so good and right at the time..thank God I retained some shred of sanity and didn't do it.
I also wanted to peel all the skin off my body.
Sigh.
We sure think weird stuff sometimes...
Yet to look at us who'd know?
Makes me wonder how many other people I see regularly have similiar thots at times....
Take care, sounds like you doing ok.
Muffled
P.S. what in the world is worse than dismembering?
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 18:05:28
In reply to Re: My newT is asking about SI (long as usual) » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on September 29, 2006, at 17:59:22
> P.S. what in the world is worse than dismembering?
I don't wanna give anyone bad dreams or more bad thoughts than they already have. If you truly want to know, just b-mail me. I'm f*cked up. truly.
Posted by muffled on September 29, 2006, at 21:51:45
In reply to Re: My newT is asking about SI (long as usual) » muffled, posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 18:05:28
> > P.S. what in the world is worse than dismembering?
>
> I don't wanna give anyone bad dreams or more bad thoughts than they already have. If you truly want to know, just b-mail me. I'm f*cked up. truly.***Yeah I know your f*cked up.
But thats ok.
You got back up.
So you'll do all right.
Just remember you ARE OK, screw what others think.
I think if we all knew more of what went on in other peoples heads we'd be MIGHTY shocked, mighty shocked indeed.
Take care, you a sweetie,
Muffled
Posted by wacky on October 2, 2006, at 12:10:22
In reply to Re: My newT is asking about SI (long as usual), posted by muffled on September 29, 2006, at 21:51:45
I am relieved that others have just as bizarre thoughts as I do. Then I don't feel quite so nutso.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 2, 2006, at 12:26:44
In reply to Re: My newT is asking about SI (long as usual), posted by wacky on October 2, 2006, at 12:10:22
> I am relieved that others have just as bizarre thoughts as I do. Then I don't feel quite so nutso.
>Likewise... (weak grin)
nice to meet your bizarre thoughts, wacky,
-Li
Posted by ElaineM on October 2, 2006, at 17:18:13
In reply to Re: My newT is asking about SI (long as usual) » wacky, posted by Lindenblüte on October 2, 2006, at 12:26:44
Li, I think 24+hours is great (SE board), especially coming off a really long, bad binge. It's pretty amazing actually. Now it will be about adding another hour or two on to that time, or an additional 24hours....maybe that's pushing it. But try not to get too down on yourself. It's unfair to expect that a coping skill that's been building "forever" can be abandoned right away - or at least without some slips.
I've hesitated posting to your SI containing threads cause I've been wondering if you find descriptions of others behaviours triggering -- kinda like a snowballing way. Does it make you do it more, or less, or is it a completely internal, personal momentum? Just wondering.
Cause I always thought SI was such a rare thing. Infact, I was amazed when people admitted to me when I first started posting that they struggle with it too. I had only ever heard pdocs relate "Yes, I've heard of people doing that too", or "Well I've heard that some ED patients do it that way" when I've been interviewed. I always thought that I was the only one who did my two effed up ways. It's hard to believe that there could be others doing it the exact same way as me -- but they do, apparently. But I'd never heard an actual person admit how they do it. (well, once in treatment, but the girl got in trouble right away and had to shut up)
You've probably answered this already but, have you (or any others) told "regular-life" people before? like NOT professionals. Other than the regular stuff, I'd never told another of one of the really effed up ways until coming here. And they seemed okay with it. Well, I guess just not repulsed. But I've found that that version of SI happens for me in reaction to, or anticipation of, a certain memory -- The two things go together. Do you find that different memories ever bring out specific versions of your SI, a unique routine? (Again, just curious. You can say only Yes or No -- You don't need to elaborate if it's hard.)
blove, EL
ps. They made me try wearing gloves all the time (well, most of the time) so it couldn't be an automatic reaction -- cause I'd sometimes zone out and not realize it happening. I'd have to take the gloves off to do it, making myself aware of the process. It's a strategy for early on when you're learning to just "delay the symptom".
Since you helped me pick out my springy pink slipper-shoes, if you're up to it, I'd like to pay you back by helping you pick out some lovely gloves. Mine are pink...go figure!
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 2, 2006, at 18:19:52
In reply to Re: My newT is asking about SI (long as usual), posted by ElaineM on October 2, 2006, at 17:18:13
> Li, I think 24+hours is great (SE board), especially coming off a really long, bad binge. It's pretty amazing actually. Now it will be about adding another hour or two on to that time, or an additional 24hours....maybe that's pushing it. But try not to get too down on yourself. It's unfair to expect that a coping skill that's been building "forever" can be abandoned right away - or at least without some slips.
thank you for your pep talk El :)
It's hard not to get down on myself. Oh well. I always forget that no one can hurt me as much as I hurt myself! No one can make me feel as down as I can make myself feel. Thanks for the little boost. :)
> I've hesitated posting to your SI containing threads cause I've been wondering if you find descriptions of others behaviours triggering -- kinda like a snowballing way. Does it make you do it more, or less, or is it a completely internal, personal momentum? Just wondering.No, this doesn't trigger me, at least not in my experience. If/when it does, I'll let you all know. I think it's all internal. Other people might put pressure on me to do something (like a work deadline)-- that might be a trigger, but not reading about someone elses struggles.
> Cause I always thought SI was such a rare thing. Infact, I was amazed when people admitted to me when I first started posting that they struggle with it too. I had only ever heard pdocs relate "Yes, I've heard of people doing that too", or "Well I've heard that some ED patients do it that way" when I've been interviewed. I always thought that I was the only one who did my two effed up ways. It's hard to believe that there could be others doing it the exact same way as me -- but they do, apparently. But I'd never heard an actual person admit how they do it. (well, once in treatment, but the girl got in trouble right away and had to shut up)
trouble? That's not cool. I guess I never really pushed it as an issue with my pdoc and T. I mentioned it on several occasions, but referred to it more as a nervous habit, rather than telling them how and when and to what extent it occupied my troubled mind.
> You've probably answered this already but, have you (or any others) told "regular-life" people before? like NOT professionals.
- good question. I mention very off-hand that I pick at my hangnails. Nearly everyone does that. I do it in public, often. But I have never told anyone about cutting, or the really systematic destruction of my cuticles, the blemish/scab picking, etc. I have one friend that I am getting closer to. We've worked together for about 18 months. I actually started my mental health treatment after hearing her and another guy talk about their AD depressants at a dinner party one night. I was totally blown away! huh? this "normal" person who is SO successful has to see a therapist and take AD? Oh. Maybe I should think about it too. She has been a resource. I have told her about some of the more bizarre things that my oldT has said. Recently, I told her my blog url, so I guess she will find out about the SI now. I think she'll be okay with it though.
>Other than the regular stuff, I'd never told another of one of the really effed up ways until coming here. And they seemed okay with it. Well, I guess just not repulsed. But I've found that that version of SI happens for me in reaction to, or anticipation of, a certain memory -- The two things go together. Do you find that different memories ever bring out specific versions of your SI, a unique routine? (Again, just curious. You can say only Yes or No -- You don't need to elaborate if it's hard.)
no- (maybe?)I guess I don't really know what brings it on. Usually when I am going through a rough time in therapy, or when I have a lot of deadlines. Basically, when I know that there are a lot of demands being placed on me, and I dont' know if I have what it takes to do a good job. Another situation is when I am completely numb and just want to feel SOMETHING, anything. Another thing that might provoke it is when I feel like I don't know who I am-- that kind of surreal dissociated state that happens to me when I'm really stressed, or never really wake up from a bad flashback.
>
> ps. They made me try wearing gloves all the time (well, most of the time) so it couldn't be an automatic reaction -- cause I'd sometimes zone out and not realize it happening. I'd have to take the gloves off to do it, making myself aware of the process. It's a strategy for early on when you're learning to just "delay the symptom".
>
> Since you helped me pick out my springy pink slipper-shoes, if you're up to it, I'd like to pay you back by helping you pick out some lovely gloves. Mine are pink...go figure!Thank you so much. I have a pair of bumblebee gloves that came with my burt's bee's stuff, but I could only find one yesterday. They get washed with my socks and get totally lost. I should buy a few more pairs. The thing is that they must be thin enough for me to type and turn book pages, or else I might as well wear boxing gloves. ugh.
(((((El)))))
I'm still amazed that more Ts and pdocs don't recognize this as a basic symptom, just like insomnia and loss of appetite. It should be part of a screening battery. Maybe it was, but I just evaded that question, just like when the nurse asked me if I had ever been abused, and I got this little smile on my face... thinking... well, depends on who you ask, and when... before answering "No".
This is the end of the thread.
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