![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by llrrrpp on July 22, 2006, at 16:43:58
So, a little drama in my department has been stewing for a few months. I'm not involved with any of the parties, but after hearing about behavior that was very illogical (threatening the career and having already ruined the marriage of one of the higher-level members (X) of the dept), I found it amusing to hang out with (X) recently. And (X) spilled EVERYTHING, in excruciating detail. (X) obviously needed to talk to someone about it. Why us? Is that inappropriate or what? I sent (X) an email this am suggesting that (X) find a psychologist or a doctor to talk to about the issues (knowing that (X) has been treated for severe major depression in the recent past). It was out of kindness. I don't even know (X). We don't work together at all. (X) was agitated and confused, seemed incoherent, couldn't follow the conversation. (X) was not doing well. and (X) sends back an email that I shouldn't make a habit out of contacting senior members in my dept. and suggesting they seek psychiatric help. I wrote back and said I wouldn't make a habit out of it, and said I wouldn't speak of it again. (here I am blabbing away...)
Problem: I'm having a mild anxiety attack. I can't seem to get my heart to drop below 110 beats per minute. Am I going to get in trouble?!? I don't see how? (X) has committed all the mortal sins in the book and confessed them to us. But (X) has more power in the dept., even if he has no power over me directly. ugh. I should have just let it lie. WHY WHY WHY did I say anything. stupid llrrrpp. F*ck me. seriously. I meant well. Seriously. (X) is in bad shape. I don't care if (X) is in my dept. or not. (X) is a person and (X)'s life could be in danger.
Oh yeah, and I'm not having a good morning either. my husband broke his computer, and now we're trying to restore it. geezus. trying to install a printer for god's sake, managed to create 3 copies of the entire diskimage, run out of HD space, and crash the whole thing. (smacking myself for even ATTEMPTING to get any work done today).
thanks for listening.
-ll
Posted by Racer on July 22, 2006, at 19:43:23
In reply to open mouth, insert foot? (suicide trigger*), posted by llrrrpp on July 22, 2006, at 16:43:58
Well, here's the Racer Review of your situation:
A senior member of your department inappropriately disclosed personal details to subordinates. One of those subordinates contacted said senior member with a suggestion of avenues to explore for help -- the kind of help which would (one devoutly hopes) minimize the chances of a repeat of the inappropriate intimacy. Senior member chastises subordinate for offering a suggestion which might have allowed him to perform his professional duties more appropriately.
Let's break that down a little more:
1. Some guy at work spills his guts to people below him on the totem pole.
That's just inappropriate. That's NOT something that should happen, and it is a form of harrassment. It's very generous of you NOT to be angry with him for that.
2. You wrote to him, suggesting that he find an appropriate place to spill his guts.
That's very generous of you, too. Again, the sort of intimacy you're describing is inappropriate. Period. Did you ASK him for details of everything going on? Did you ASK him to dump it on you? Well, then he did something which interfered with the functioning of the department. By suggesting that he get professional help, you were actually suggesting that he protect himself from professional harm. Don't you think that's generous of you?
3. He barked at you for suggesting help.
Well, let's see, can you fill in this part without me?
So, now you're afraid and ashamed of what you've done? You did something nice for someone who did something not nice to you. Why do you feel ashamed and not angry? I'm gonna bet that this is recreating something that happened before in your life. I say that only because that's what it usually is for me. Do you think that might be it? A learned response to this sort of situation, where someone else says you're in the wrong, even though you thought you were doing something good?
Lurp, I hope some of that sinks in. If it doesn't, how about thinking about why I can see it and believe it for you, but not for myself? And then think about that in reverse. If I'd told you that story, how would you have responded to me?
Good luck. I might actually suggest to you that you discuss this, in confidence, with someone you trust directly above you: "I'm a little concerned, because X dumped a bunch of personal information at me/us, and it seemed kinda inappropriate, so I wrote privately to him to suggest he might feel better if he saw a doctor. He wrote back saying I shouldn't write to senior members of the department suggesting they get professional help. I really was trying to help. Do you have any advice for me?" Just think about how to say it so that you're not blaming X, but you are emphasizing that his behavior was unsettling and inappropriate.
I really do hope that helps.
Posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2006, at 19:46:40
In reply to open mouth, insert foot? (suicide trigger*), posted by llrrrpp on July 22, 2006, at 16:43:58
You did fine. Don't mention it again and hope that X is so embarassed that he doesn't say anything.
You are a caring person. His behavior was inappropriate.
Posted by llrrrpp on July 23, 2006, at 0:56:20
In reply to Re: open mouth, insert foot? (suicide trigger*) » llrrrpp, posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2006, at 19:46:40
> You did fine. Don't mention it again and hope that X is so embarassed that he doesn't say anything.
>
> You are a caring person. His behavior was inappropriate.Yeah, I'm kind of freaking out less and less about it. Ultimately, he has a lot more to lose than I do. I'm just an underling, as it were. And I'm almost outa this place anyways. I'm going to do my best to ignore him for the time being. I assume he'll ignore me too. He's got bigger issues than worrying about me. I could totally dismiss him as a complete @ss, (which he is!) but I tried to help instead. Oh well. Some people don't get it until it's too late. Not my problem. I won't make it my problem anymore either.
Thanks Falls,
-ll
Posted by llrrrpp on July 23, 2006, at 1:12:39
In reply to Re: open mouth, insert foot? (suicide trigger*) » llrrrpp, posted by Racer on July 22, 2006, at 19:43:23
> Well, here's the Racer Review of your situation:
>
> A senior member of your department inappropriately disclosed personal details to subordinates. One of those subordinates contacted said senior member with a suggestion of avenues to explore for help -- the kind of help which would (one devoutly hopes) minimize the chances of a repeat of the inappropriate intimacy. Senior member chastises subordinate for offering a suggestion which might have allowed him to perform his professional duties more appropriately.
>
> Let's break that down a little more:
>
> 1. Some guy at work spills his guts to people below him on the totem pole.
>
> That's just inappropriate. That's NOT something that should happen, and it is a form of harrassment. It's very generous of you NOT to be angry with him for that.yes. you're SO right. Thank GOD this guy doesn't work with me.
>
> 2. You wrote to him, suggesting that he find an appropriate place to spill his guts.
>
> That's very generous of you, too. Again, the sort of intimacy you're describing is inappropriate. Period. Did you ASK him for details of everything going on? Did you ASK him to dump it on you? Well, then he did something which interfered with the functioning of the department. By suggesting that he get professional help, you were actually suggesting that he protect himself from professional harm. Don't you think that's generous of you?It was generous. I did it in a timely fashion too. discreetly. yep. you're right again (2 points for racer)
> 3. He barked at you for suggesting help.He sure did.
> Well, let's see, can you fill in this part without me?
>
> So, now you're afraid and ashamed of what you've done? You did something nice for someone who did something not nice to you. Why do you feel ashamed and not angry? I'm gonna bet that this is recreating something that happened before in your life. I say that only because that's what it usually is for me. Do you think that might be it? A learned response to this sort of situation, where someone else says you're in the wrong, even though you thought you were doing something good?
>yes. right again. This guy evaluated me once, almost 5 years ago (didn't remember me in the bar last night, though. didn't even recognize me as a member of his dept. Chalk it up to memory loss from ECT- funny how he remembered my hot friend, though... (too much information. seriously too much information)) I was super new at the time, desparately seeking approval, and not sure if I belonged. and what do you know? This guy who's a bad-a*s, super smart and way too cool had to evaluate me. And at one point, I asked for an extension because I was getting married, and he put up a fight. He actually made me cry. (I don't think he noticed though- jerk) and for whatever reason, I worked my @ss off to prove to him (or myself) that I *did* belong here.
Maybe in writing that e-mail I was hoping that he would write back "that's good advice. thanks for thinking of me" or "I'm working on it" or "see you around". Instead, I think I embarrassed him. The morning after his multiple indiscretions, I reminded him of himself and his flaws. Oh well.
> Lurp, I hope some of that sinks in. If it doesn't, how about thinking about why I can see it and believe it for you, but not for myself? And then think about that in reverse. If I'd told you that story, how would you have responded to me?
the thing is, that people on babble are expecting advice, or response, or feedback. people in real world dump all this crap on you and expect what? that you'll sit there and smile and nod while they self-destruct? That you'll bear the burden of keeping their moral transgressions secret? Seriously, I know his wife, and they have kids. I know he's up for promotion. I think his telling strangers this stuff is just another self-destructive move on his part. Oh well. I'm making myself distant. Adios!
> Good luck. I might actually suggest to you that you discuss this, in confidence, with someone you trust directly above you: "I'm a little concerned, because X dumped a bunch of personal information at me/us, and it seemed kinda inappropriate, so I wrote privately to him to suggest he might feel better if he saw a doctor. He wrote back saying I shouldn't write to senior members of the department suggesting they get professional help. I really was trying to help. Do you have any advice for me?" Just think about how to say it so that you're not blaming X, but you are emphasizing that his behavior was unsettling and inappropriate.
Fortunately, I was with 3 other underlings, and we were simultaneously appalled. Because he's up for promotion soon, I don't think that telling other people in the dept. would help his situation any. And this stuff spreads like wildfire, so they'll find out anyways (his affair is already well-known, as is his struggles with mental illness).
> I really do hope that helps.
It does. It really does. You inspired me to respond to each of your points, in my own words. And I think I'm starting to believe my words too.
Thanks for your lengthy response. :o)
-ll
Posted by llrrrpp on July 23, 2006, at 15:08:06
In reply to Re: open mouth, insert foot? » Racer, posted by llrrrpp on July 23, 2006, at 1:12:39
got another e-mail. The guy apologized for his rude reply to my 1st e-mail. He said that my concern was sincere and that I was perceptive. He cautioned me not to go around telling people that they should seek psychiatric treatment. I replied that I wouldn't do such a thing, and that I only wrote to him because he seemed like he was in a crisis (which he acknowledged as the reason for his earlier brief, rude, e-mail.) I also warned him against telling underlings too much about his situation, that not all are as discreet as I, and that gossip is rampant.
so. that's not such a big deal after all. Why does mental illness have to be so stigmatized? If someone was hacking their lungs up, I'd say- go see a doctor! Too bad we can't observe someone's emotional lability, incoherence, and exaggerated responses and recommend that they seek help too--
(in a nice, sensitive way of course)-ll
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.