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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by annierose on January 14, 2006, at 8:03:54
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » annierose, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2006, at 22:54:40
Grovel ... yes, that would have felt nice : -)
I guess it felt bad because she didn't acknowledge it was her mess-up during my session, and I felt I was in outer space, like I made up the entire change.
I'd like a perfect therapist. Unfortunately, people are people, even our therapists. We all make mistakes. It's just that their mistakes tend to hurt a bit more.
And you're right. She will work something out.
Posted by Poet on January 14, 2006, at 10:42:46
In reply to Anger continued ..., posted by annierose on January 13, 2006, at 16:00:29
Hi Annierose,
I would have sat there in silence, too. Glaring. Good for you that you called her. I hope you get Tuesdays back.
I'm always afraid my T will double book clients when she changes my appointment around. So far she hasn't, though once she called me an hour before my rearranged appointment and said aren't you supposed to be here?
Sometimes T's just drive us crazy(ier).
Poet
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2006, at 11:02:24
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » fallsfall, posted by annierose on January 14, 2006, at 7:51:59
It does seem odd that she didn't mention it during the session. Maybe she looked it up the documentation after the session.
Posted by daisym on January 14, 2006, at 20:42:33
In reply to Anger continued ..., posted by annierose on January 13, 2006, at 16:00:29
Sounds like a horrible session. I think I would have left. I hate sitting in silence.
I think I want a perfect therapist too. I think the reason this week was so distressing, among other things, is that when I made a list of what I was upset with my therapist about, he didn't defend himself, he said, "I can see why you would be upset." I WANTED him to argue with me, for it to be all in my head. I didn't want him to make mistakes. Even little tiny ones.
He said people who care about each other sometimes hurt each other. And that being mad doesn't suddenly make your skull transparent with a ticker-tape of your thoughts running through in plain sight. So even if you know someone is mad, you still might not know why or what they are thinking. So speaking up is the only way to clear the air.
I'm glad you spoke up. I hope you get to keep your slot.
Posted by annierose on January 14, 2006, at 22:02:15
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » annierose, posted by daisym on January 14, 2006, at 20:42:33
I'm smiled reading your reply. My T uses the ticker tape analogy all the time. She'll sometimes say, "I wish there was a ticker tape above your head telling me what you are thinking, but there isn't. So I really would like you to share with me what thoughts are going through your head."
Another piece of this appointment puzzle that upset me, and it's probably not worth explaining, but I've been thinking about it, so here it is. Originally what started the change came from her. She told me, "Beginning in January my schedule is going to change, and I will no longer will available on Thursdays at 1:45. Are you able to come earlier at x or z?" It was then that I told her I was thinking of asking to change to Tuesdays anyway. WELL ... last week I let her know that I was going away to New York for business, and could I reschedule my Friday appointment. And what time did she offer me? Not my Thursday at 1:45, but immediately after at 2:30. I guess this upset me because I inferred that she was leaving early on Thursdays, hence offering me two earlier times. Now 2 weeks later, she is offering me a time after my old appointment that I have had for 2 years. I'm confused. Was I bumped??? And now, am I being bumped AGAIN??? I think these 2 interactions combined really got me angry.
Deep breath, sigh. I finally got it all out now. Do I have to tell her this piece of the puzzle too?
Posted by daisym on January 14, 2006, at 22:59:17
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » daisym, posted by annierose on January 14, 2006, at 22:02:15
I think you already know the answer to your question...yes, you need to tell her your thought map and what your feelings have been.
I have a question:
Is it just being bumped that is bothing you, or the fact that you were wrong about your assumption, hence you didn't really know where she was...or who she was with? A few months ago I had the need to move my appointment from afternoon to morning. As an afterthought I called and said, "I'll see you in the X office instead of the Y office, right?" He called and said no. He'd changed his schedule (when!?) and was in the Y office all day on Mondays now. I was surprised at how much that bothered me. I did tell him and he said he could see why -- when I was a kid it was critically important for me to know where people were and what their schedule was. I needed to know where he was just in case I needed him. Even if this knowing wasn't real. Does that make sense?
Perhaps some of this is in the disruption of your knowing -- and it makes you question your place in the hirarachy of clients and your importance to her. Sometimes it keeps boiling down to wanting to be an only child that is treasured and special.
I wish it was easier. But who wouldn't want that if they could have it?
Posted by Dinah on January 15, 2006, at 0:02:09
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » daisym, posted by annierose on January 14, 2006, at 22:02:15
Yes, I'm afraid that you probably do have to tell her, or you won't have an easy time putting it away.
:(
Posted by annierose on January 15, 2006, at 12:15:56
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » annierose, posted by daisym on January 14, 2006, at 22:59:17
I don't like the place I'm in right now. The angst just thinking about my session tomorrow. I'm not sure I have the answers to the questions you posed. I think it just bothered me to think (and not know) why she was changing my regular Thursday time, and then to find out, she just might be working all along.
I hate that it even matters.
Yes, of course I want to be special to her. I have shared that thought with her. That's no secret.
Posted by annierose on January 15, 2006, at 12:18:44
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » annierose, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2006, at 0:02:09
That's the perfect way of wording it too. It's been on my mind all weekend. And I'm dreading going, on the other hand, I want to put these doubts behind me.
As I told Daisy, I wish I didn't care. I wish I could walk away tomorrow and not be sad about the loss. I wish I could quit.
I wish.
So many things.
And no courage to make them come true.
Posted by fairywings on January 15, 2006, at 23:43:10
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » annierose, posted by daisym on January 14, 2006, at 22:59:17
>>and it makes you question your place in the hirarachy of clients and your importance to her.
Hi daisy and annie,
Is there a hierachy among clients? I never thought of that! I guess it makes sense that T's would like some patients better than others.
When I was still seeing my ex T, I was told by one of the office staff (who's no longer there) that my ex T must not like me bec. my appts. were always 10-15 min. shorter than ANY of his other clients. Ouch!
I would be very hurt, mad, offended if I found out my T had resched. me to see another client (unless it was an emerg.) and I don't even have a "regular" appt. time. I can certainly understand your feelings, and I think your T will too. It's something you've just got to get off your chest.
I hope it turns out to be a big misunderstanding or something like that, where you'll feel greatly relieved once you talk to her.
fw
Posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 6:21:48
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » daisym, posted by fairywings on January 15, 2006, at 23:43:10
Me too!
I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 10:46:30
In reply to Re: Anger continued ... » fairywings, posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 6:21:48
I was really full of all sorts of emotions today. I began the session by going over why I was hurt regarding Tuesday's session and adding the new stuff re: Thursday's session, appearing to be BUMPED.
T: When clients come more than once a week, it's important to their therapy that the frequency continues. Sometimes, people's work or school schedule changes so their session time needs to change. That is what happened with Thursday.
Me: So I was bumped. Now I'm really angry.
T: No, I asked you if you were able to come at a different time.
Me: No, it wasn't presented as a choice. You said, "My schedule is changing at the beginning of the year, are you able to come at this time?"
T: If you weren't able to change, I wasn't going to take away your appointment time.
Me:
That's not what you said. I guess I'm the disposable client. You feel you can just move my time around and in Tuesday's case, not even write it down or remember it. Like I don't matter. I don't even want to come on that Thursday appointment now. Just cancel that session.T: I can see why you feel so hurt. But you are not disposable. Your feelings are so intense around this issue because that is how you felt with your family, like you didn't matter, your needs were not important
Me: Oh, isn't that convenient. Instead of owning your responsilbility, just blame everything on my past.
T: I did make a mistake. I'm sorry. Try to understand if your work schedule changed, I would do the same for you.
That pretty much sums up this session. I'm still so angry. I do understand what she is saying, but the bottom line is that I was bumped for someone else. It wasn't presented as a choice, that much I'm 100% certain of. And now, she is "working on the Tuesday conflict".All of it s*cks. And I hate her right now. And I don't want to go tomorrow. I feel I need time to process this session. I'll just sit in silence tomorrow and that will feel just worse.
I know this isn't such a big deal. But it feels that way.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2006, at 14:11:42
In reply to She did BUMP me!!!, posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 10:46:30
Grrrrr.
I'm sorry, but I'm so glad you talked about it.
((((((Annierose))))))
gg
Posted by fairywings on January 16, 2006, at 14:33:07
In reply to She did BUMP me!!!, posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 10:46:30
(((Annie)))
That does s*ck, and you're right, she didn't own up to her blunder. I don't blame you for being angry and wanting to quit. I know you've been with her a long time, so I guess it's a matter of whether you can work through it with her and forgive her, or whether you even want to. My last T tried to slough off his mistakes too. I hated that bec. it made me feel bad about me when it was clearly his fault.
I can't believe she tried to make it into something about your past, or that she kind of implied that clients who come more often rate higher. I hope she thinks about it and realizes she messed up big time. It really hurts when they do things like that to us, and why can't they see how hurtful it is? How damaging it is to break our trust and basically lie to us, or at the very least not be honest?
I'm glad you had the guts to talk about it and be completely honest. You were incredibly brave to fight for your self and defend your position. I can't imagine she'd go away from that kind of honesty and not give it some serious thought. Just simply saying, "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it.
I know you're really hurting right now, and I'm so sorry.
fw
Posted by littleone on January 16, 2006, at 14:48:37
In reply to She did BUMP me!!!, posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 10:46:30
I know just how you feel and it really does suck big time.
My T and I had a big blowup over something very similar. In the end he was trying to show me that it only upsets me because I have my worth tied up into it.
I feel like I don't matter. In your case, you felt like you were disposable.
He said that other clients who don't have ego/self problems don't have issues with times, etc. Which just made it feel like he was saying it was my fault. But I guess he was trying to say that most people don't have their worth tied up into things like this.
And I can see that it was/is upsetting for me because my worth *is* tied up into it. But I still reckon he did stuff wrong.
We've never resolved this stuff. Fighting with him is so distressing. It's times like this I put my running shoes on and get ready to bolt.
I sure hope you and your T sort things out. You're doing well so far talking to her about it. I'd love to keep hearing how you go.
Posted by Dinah on January 16, 2006, at 17:43:35
In reply to She did BUMP me!!!, posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 10:46:30
Arrrgghhhh!!!!
Tell her that we all think that anyone at all would be highly offended by her behavior. It doesn't matter what issues we may have had in childhood!
Good grief.
Ok, I might be wrong here, because my memory isn't what it never was, but hasn't she been uncharacteristically off a few times lately? I wonder if something's going on with her to cause her to be a bit more disorganized than normal.
I don't blame you for hating her right now. But try to verbalize it and process it out loud to her if not with her. She needs to understand that these things *do* matter, and it's not pathology on our parts that they do.
Posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 19:08:48
In reply to Re: She did BUMP me!!! » annierose, posted by Dinah on January 16, 2006, at 17:43:35
... actually came through for me. Usually I don't share with him any therapy angst, because he doesn't usually get it, so I end up feeling frustrated and annoyed.
He came home early tonight (our daughter had a dance recital) and saw the pain on my face. Asked what was wrong, I asked if he really wanted to know. He listened, paused and said, "You're hurt. You need to tell her tomorrow, and you will work this out." So simple, but I felt understood --- finally --- by him.
And not to underestimate my babble friends. I went to you first and thank you so so so much. I've taken pieces of what everyone has suggested and will go tomorrow --- SITTING up front, in her face.
Dinah - when she went off in the direction of relating my feeling to my past, I did tell her that was adding insult to injury. I'm glad I spoke up right then and there.
I'm definitely having a rough time. Now that I have labeled it as "pain" has help. Funny what a simple concept that is.
Posted by Dinah on January 16, 2006, at 20:19:02
In reply to Re: My husband ... (to everyone --- thank you), posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 19:08:48
That *was* just the right thing to say.
Funny how they surprise us like that.
Posted by fairywings on January 16, 2006, at 20:39:02
In reply to Re: My husband ... (to everyone --- thank you), posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 19:08:48
I'm so glad he understood and was there for you.
fw
Posted by fallsfall on January 16, 2006, at 20:52:13
In reply to She did BUMP me!!!, posted by annierose on January 16, 2006, at 10:46:30
What I'm going to say here is not what you want to hear.
I know that you are justifiably hurt. She made a bad mistake, and her mistake hurt you. Your hurt is justified, and your anger is justified.
Yet, I agree with her that *some* of your feelings sound a little old to me. Like the intensity sounds old. The feelings themselves seem very understandable, but a bit intense.
>T: If you weren't able to change, I wasn't going to take away your appointment time.
>Me:
That's not what you said.*** She also didn't say that you would need to cut back on your sessions. She didn't say one way or the other. She asked if you could change. You **interpreted** it as that there wasn't a choice - that you were no longer allowed to come at that time (a reasonable interpretation - but perhaps not the ONLY reasonable interpretation). There was stuff left unsaid, and you filled in one set of reasonable conclusions while she filled in a different set.
>I guess I'm the disposable client. You feel you can just move my time around and in Tuesday's case, not even write it down or remember it. Like I don't matter. I don't even want to come on that Thursday appointment now. Just cancel that session.>T: I can see why you feel so hurt. But you are not disposable. Your feelings are so intense around this issue because that is how you felt with your family, like you didn't matter, your needs were not important
>Me: Oh, isn't that convenient. Instead of owning your responsilbility, just blame everything on my past.
>T: I did make a mistake. I'm sorry. Try to understand if your work schedule changed, I would do the same for you.
*** She is owning her mistake here. She knows that she was wrong to forget to write down your Tuesday appointment. She is not saying that she had no part in your pain. What I see her saying is that your pain might not be so intense if your past was different. I don't see her saying that you would have *NO* pain if your past was different, nor that your past is responsible for your pain.
*** Can you identify *what* it is that is hurting you? Is it that she tried to rearrange her schedule in general? Is it that she forgot to write down the Tuesday appointment? Is it that she doesn't understand why you are so upset? Do you believe that she would sacrifice your therapy for someone else's?
For me, it makes a difference to see that my therapist made "reasonable" assumptions, and for him to see that I also made "reasonable" assumptions. It also has helped me to see exactly how he DID see it (which means that I have to be patient enough to listen to him interpret our conversations differently than the way that *I* KNOW it was. It is very hard to be patient when I am so angry). I guess that helps me to see that he wasn't trying to be horrid/cruel/mean.
Here's hoping that the two of you can work this through soon.
Posted by James K on January 16, 2006, at 23:04:06
In reply to Re: She did BUMP me!!!, posted by fallsfall on January 16, 2006, at 20:52:13
I'm coming in on this late, but I have been reading it. I think i'm also the only guy, so I hope i'm not intruding.
I just wanted to share that the last time I was in therapy a couple of years ago, it was time for me to go back to work so I asked if I could have a Friday or Saturday appt. (my days off). She said "That's when I see my regular clients."
I never went back. I can't think of a worse thing to say to me with my ultra-defensiveness. I don't think she knew how I took that or maybe she did. I still need therapy. I don't know
I think I have some understanding of your pain, and I applaud your courage in dealing with it instead of running or rejecting out of hand.
james k
Posted by annierose on January 17, 2006, at 5:48:42
In reply to Re: She did BUMP me!!!, posted by James K on January 16, 2006, at 23:04:06
Thank you for your support. PLease, jump into any thread at anytime ... always welcome.
I'm surprised your T didn't try to accomodate your needs in anyway. My T was doing just that, accomodating another client's schedule --- over mine! My T knew that Thursday was my day off, so she was manipulative in how she phrase the request --- that is the part I am reacting so strongly to.
You should try and see someone else. It's hard to screen T's over the phone but at least you could find out who was available on Friday or Saturdays. Therapy is worth it. Just not fun when you are in the midst of a disagreement with a person you think so highly of.
Posted by annierose on January 17, 2006, at 5:52:52
In reply to Hooray for your husband » annierose, posted by Dinah on January 16, 2006, at 20:19:02
AND ... he even continued the conversation later into the evening and gave me his thoughts.
I couldn't believe how encouraging he was being to work this out.
No, I don't think she has been off lately. It's just there were 2 scheduling issues back to back --- so in that sense, yes. I even remember thinking back in December when we made all these changes, she had all these scraps of paper flying out of her 2005 calendar. I thought, she needs to buy that new calendar ASAP. Not fast enough.
Posted by annierose on January 17, 2006, at 5:56:49
In reply to Re: She did BUMP me!!!, posted by fallsfall on January 16, 2006, at 20:52:13
Thank you so so so much for writing all this down --- TWICE! I printed out your post and may bring it in today. If I get stuck and no words pour out, the questions you posed at the end will help. These are WAY better questions than her current, "What thoughts are running through your mind?" I HATE THAT SO MUCH!!!
I did fall asleep. So happy for that!
I so appreciate your support.
Posted by annierose on January 17, 2006, at 6:00:02
In reply to Re: My husband ... (to everyone --- thank you) » annierose, posted by fairywings on January 16, 2006, at 20:39:02
Thanks Fairywings -
The men in our lives can surprise sometimes. And I even remember now and then why I married him. He does have the ability to calm me when I'm upset (of course, not upset with him --- hasn't even begun to learn that!). And make me laugh and see some humor in the situation.
Thanks for reading all my angst. I hope I can be helpful to you in the future.
You asked in another thread how often I go, I go 3 times a week. So yes, I do think my T does make sure these clients get their appointments worked in.
This is the end of the thread.
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