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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Gabbix2 on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T (Happy, don't miss th » rod, posted by allisonross on December 7, 2005, at 14:50:16
What you fantasize about is entirely up to you, when it's private
It's hard for me to see such a landmine of a subject as teasing, or harmless, especially considering who the audience is likely to be on a board like this. I'd compare it to a high school student writing public fantasies of seducing a teacher.
Posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T (Happy, don't miss th » allisonross, posted by Gabbix2 on December 7, 2005, at 16:18:42
> What you fantasize about is entirely up to you, when it's private
> It's hard for me to see such a landmine of a subject as teasing, or harmless, especially considering who the audience is likely to be on a board like this. I'd compare it to a high school student writing public fantasies of seducing a teacher.Hey Gabbi,
I think I know what you mean… But when I was in the depths of transference hell I longed for an opportunity to joke about my fantasies in a playful way with people who understood. That was before I discovered Babble. I think (for me) the feelings were at their most harmful when I tried to deny them or push them away.
I strongly believe that it’s the therapist’s responsibility to maintain the boundaries and ensure that ethical codes are upheld. So I think a therapist’s unethical response could be harmful, but I don’t think sharing fantasies with other clients is harmful.
What do you think? Do you worry that sharing fantasies could put some clients at risk from unethical therapists? Or is it something else?
Tamar
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T » Gabbix2, posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 16:41:57
>
> I think I know what you mean… But when I was in the depths of transference hell I longed for an opportunity to joke about my fantasies in a playful way with people who understood.I think that's the important part..understanding, and sharing maybe *privately*. I d on't mean you have to deny them.
I've not had a therapist, and I don't think it would really put people at risk, but I've read really painful stories here of people who have been taken advantage of by their T's, and who originally thought it was their own decision.
So it's hard for me to see it as harmless, because of what it may bring out in those who've been victimized.That is really all I was saying, because of that I personally can't see it so lightly.
But then, I have a problem taking lots of things lightly.. : )
Thanks for asking.
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T » Gabbix2, posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 16:41:57
Thankyou, Tamar: It's sometimes scary to say my thoughts here, when people are negative. We all have a right to our opinions.
I am a natural flirt and tease (never crude), and my t tells me that he honors that I have discussed my feelings for him, and that it is "not dangerous, as long as we talk about it." I believe in being authentic.
I try not to judge, but....understand....ask some good questions and listen.
Thankyou, sweetie!
Hugs, Alice
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T » Gabbix2, posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 16:41:57
Those are quite the people skills you have!
You said how you felt, and actually made me think about why I was bothered, and If I even needed to say anything. And you did it in such a nice way.Maybe I should try that some time..
heh
maybe later : )
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T (Happy, don't miss th » allisonross, posted by Gabbix2 on December 7, 2005, at 16:18:42
> What you fantasize about is entirely up to you, when it's private
> It's hard for me to see such a landmine of a subject as teasing, or harmless, especially considering who the audience is likely to be on a board like this.I'm not sure what you mean. This is a a board for "social" stuff, and there are many topics for conversation. Knowing the difference between my stuff and others' stuff is the key...if it bothers me, or I don't understand, I don't respond. I don't want to judge or criticize anyone. We all need to be gentle and kind to one another.
Sorry I offended you. I was simply sharing my feelings for my therapist. That has been done by others here, also.
I'd compare it to a high school student writing public fantasies of seducing a teacher.
Well, you have a right to your opinion, as we all do. It sounds to me as if there is something else going on with your feelings. As I told my t (and he knows it), I am a natural....flirt; I do it with everyone (in a classy way).
I felt criticized, and cannot bear those feelings, and that makes me sad. It doesn't feel safe. I just came out of a 31 year marriage of abuse (and childhood of the same), and am trying to heal.
My best to you...Sincerely, Ally
P.S. We really never know another person, and how much better to ask some good questions before criticizing (said as gently as I can)
P.S.#2...if this topic offends you, make sure you don't read Happyflowers posts :)
Posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T » Tamar, posted by Gabbix2 on December 7, 2005, at 17:21:18
> > I think I know what you mean… But when I was in the depths of transference hell I longed for an opportunity to joke about my fantasies in a playful way with people who understood.
>
> I think that's the important part..understanding, and sharing maybe *privately*. I d on't mean you have to deny them.I see what you’re saying. I guess it’s hard to find people to share this stuff with privately. I could probably do it through Babblemail now that I’ve managed to get to know people here. But my real life friends just don’t understand!
> I've not had a therapist, and I don't think it would really put people at risk, but I've read really painful stories here of people who have been taken advantage of by their T's, and who originally thought it was their own decision.
Yes, I’ve read some too. It’s terribly painful. It’s really not funny when therapists misbehave.
> So it's hard for me to see it as harmless, because of what it may bring out in those who've been victimized.
Ah, I think I understand. You’re concerned about the people who’ve been hurt who read this stuff. Yes, that makes a lot of sense to me. I can imagine it would be painful to people who have been sexually exploited by their therapists. Maybe it needs trigger warnings if it’s going to be discussed publicly, or particularly when we want to joke about it to relieve some of the tension.
I hope, and I really think it’s possible, that those of us who feel intense sexual desire for our therapists can understand that the reality is usually very different. I know that we’d benefit from the experience of anyone who warns us of the dangers of allowing our therapists to be intimate with us. I’m sure we can be sensitive to different experiences. Thanks for getting me to think about it.
> That is really all I was saying, because of that I personally can't see it so lightly.
>
> But then, I have a problem taking lots of things lightly.. : )Hey, I take almost nothing lightly. I think a healthy dose of seriousness is a good thing in this world!
You take care.
Tamar
Posted by Phillipa on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T » Gabbix2, posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 17:57:39
This is getting pretty heavy for social. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by rod on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T (Happy, don't miss th » rod, posted by allisonross on December 7, 2005, at 14:50:16
> I haven't and don't plan to start a sexual relationship; it's playful and fun, and we discuss the feelings, etc.....I am aware of the boundaries, etc.....
>
> It's the teasing and flirting; harmless, as long as i understand that there are boundaries (which i have never crossed).
>
> Anyway, I was writing this in a teasing manner; forgetting that some people wouldn't know it.ok, then sorry :D
I dont follow the social board very closely....
bye
Posted by happyflower on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:58
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T, posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2005, at 18:35:35
I like you no matter what!
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:59
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T (Happy, don't miss th » Gabbix2, posted by allisonross on December 7, 2005, at 17:38:55
> > What you fantasize about is entirely up to you, when it's private
> > It's hard for me to see such a landmine of a subject as teasing, or harmless, especially considering who the audience is likely to be on a board like this.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. This is a a board for "social" stuff, and there are many topics for conversation. Knowing the difference between my stuff and others' stuff is the key...if it bothers me, or I don't understand, I don't respond. I don't want to judge or criticize anyone. We all need to be gentle and kind to one another.
>
> Sorry I offended you. I was simply sharing my feelings for my therapist. That has been done by others here, also.
>Discussing attachement issues, or transference is different to me, than posting fantasy stories.
I was sharing how felt about the posts
I know you feel criticized, however I stated how I felt, I did *not* judge what you did.> I'd compare it to a high school student writing public fantasies of seducing a teacher.
>
> Well, you have a right to your opinion, as we all do. It sounds to me as if there is something else going on with your feelings.Please don't jump to conclusions, as I said to Tamar, I've read too many posts from people who are struggling with the aftermath of boundary crossing T's, that's exactly why I said what I did.
As I told my t (and he knows it), I am a natural....flirt; I do it with everyone (in a classy way).
>
> I felt criticized, and cannot bear those feelings, and that makes me sad. It doesn't feel safe. I just came out of a 31 year marriage of abuse (and childhood of the same), and am trying to heal.
>Well, as I said, it's a landmine of a subject, and those subjects tend to draw differing responses from others.
I would dare say, that many of of us here are trying to heal from abusive relationships, and that's why I'm asking that perhaps you could put a trigger warning on your posts.
> My best to you...Sincerely, Ally
>
> P.S. We really never know another person, and how much better to ask some good questions before criticizing (said as gently as I can)
>
Again, there was no criticism, I said how that it was hard for me to take what you said lightly. That's a statment of MY feelings, not a criticism of what you did, there's a vast difference between the two. I am entitled to say how something feels to me.
> P.S.#2...if this topic offends you, make sure you don't read Happyflowers posts :)It's not the topic, I've never had a therapist, I've never had transference issues, nor is the discussion of transference a problem. It's the playfulness toward a topic that has so much emotion attached to it for so many people.
Posted by muffled on December 8, 2005, at 0:18:59
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T (Happy, don't miss th » allisonross, posted by Gabbix2 on December 7, 2005, at 19:30:32
Posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:54:53
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T » Tamar, posted by Gabbix2 on December 7, 2005, at 17:21:18
Sometimes these kinds of threads make me jealous that I can't "lighten up" around my therapy and my feelings for my therapist. It feels so complicated and important and fragile to me.
Other times, depending on my mood, I find this kind of joking offensive -- like someone else said, disrespectful of the therapist as a person or insensitive to someone who may have been hurt by a boundary crossing. This response is rare for me but has happened. (I'm not criticizing, it is MY issue, not the writers.)
Mostly, like all things here on Babble, I think we learn to read and/or respond to certain threads and to avoid others. Whether it is the subject line or a specific poster. And it isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with content, it is about protecting yourself -- sometimes a poster's struggle is too close to home and calls up too much pain for some of us to respond to. Other times we can't relate, and have nothing to really say. So for me, I choose to avoid threads that upset me (and that changes from day to day) because I think everyone needs to feel that they can reach out for support, have fun or be serious as they need to. I would hate for the writers to have to worry about the readers. I think the readers have to take care of themselves.
So -- I think trigger warnings would be really helpful. Something like "playful sexual content" or whatever. Or maybe these things belong on social?
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 4:09:29
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:54:53
> Hey, Daisy, sweetie: Thanks for what you said.
Sometimes these kinds of threads make me jealous that I can't "lighten up" around my therapy and my feelings for my therapist. It feels so complicated and important and fragile to me.
I know that only too well.
>
> Other times, depending on my mood, I find this kind of joking offensive -- like someone else said, disrespectful of the therapist as a person or insensitive to someone who may have been hurt by a boundary crossing. This response is rare for me but has happened. (I'm not criticizing, it is MY issue, not the writers.)
>
> Mostly, like all things here on Babble, I think we learn to read and/or respond to certain threads and to avoid others.I agree. That is what I stated. if someone says something I don't understand, or agree with, I remain silent. THe last thing anyone needs, is criticism.
Whether it is the subject line or a specific poster. And it isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with content, it is about protecting yourself --
I was upset; didn't think talking about flirting or buying a green lightbulb would elicit such a response.
sometimes a poster's struggle is too close to home and calls up too much pain for some of us to respond to. Other times we can't relate, and have nothing to really say. So for me, I choose to avoid threads that upset me (and that changes from day to day) because I think everyone needs to feel that they can reach out for support, have fun or be serious as they need to. I would hate for the writers to have to worry about the readers.
I'm afraid that is where I am right now.
I think the readers have to take care of themselves.
>
> So -- I think trigger warnings would be really helpful. Something like "playful sexual content" or whatever. Or maybe these things belong on social?
I put my post on social, but Dr. Bob moved it.
I will put in a trigger next time (that is, if there is a next time). I am trying to heal from 31 years of an abusive marriage, and need to feel safe to say what I want to.I think it is interesting, Happyflower (my buddy) posts this kind of stuff, and not too many people get upset (some do), but I seem to get the cricicism. It's very hurtful, so I probably won't do the playful stuff again.
It seemed---safe---to share what I did, but I see that it is not.
My t asked me how I was able to overcome a lifetime of abuse (physical, verbal and molestation),and I told him, 'my faith, sense of humor and wit." If it were not for my sense of humor, I would be drooling in a corner somewhere.
Again, thank you for your helpful, sensitive post.
Hugs, Ally
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 5:24:21
In reply to (((((((((((((ally gurl)))))))))))))))))))))))), posted by happyflower on December 7, 2005, at 19:14:40
Posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 6:07:32
In reply to Re: The Green Light and my T, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:54:53
Gosh, I’m glad this discussion has happened. It’s been a bit painful, because there are some strong feelings involved. But maybe it needed to happen… and I sense there may be others who haven’t contributed but who have strong feelings about it.
It’s impossible to expect that we could all have the same sense of humour, so if those of us who like to make playful sexual jokes about our therapists can remember to put trigger warnings, other people can avoid those threads. Safe play can happen; others won’t be offended.
I think the idea of trigger warnings is a good compromise.
(((((everyone)))))
Tamar
Posted by caraher on December 8, 2005, at 7:34:04
In reply to The Green Light and my T (Happy, don't miss this, posted by allisonross on December 7, 2005, at 10:55:58
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 10:41:15
In reply to But that's you giving *him* the green light(s)! ;) (nm), posted by caraher on December 8, 2005, at 7:34:04
Yes, I realize that, LOL
Which will have NO meaning; something fun to do; play on words!
Ally
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 10:57:01
In reply to But that's you giving *him* the green light(s)! ;) (nm), posted by caraher on December 8, 2005, at 7:34:04
Much ado....about nothing; that is MY opinion, LOL
It's ironic. I've always been so careful with my words (Living with verbal abuse for a lifetime), and counseling people who have been verbally abused.
I never expected one comment, and saying I was going to buy a green lightbulb, would elicit such a response.
Any thoughtful, loving, kind responses; great
I (as most people) can't take any more criticism.
I should probably leave; As I said before, healing from 31 years of verbal, physical abuse., other kinds of abuse I won't mention....alone now for only 5 months after divorce; HUGE transition in my life, but because of my faith and...resilience, doing well.
Without my sense of humor, I would be drooling in a corner somewhere. It is necessary for me....to live!
I don't take much seriously----unless...obvious things; life is too short, and can be so tragic; so much pain and misery in life.
Living is hard, dying is mean, get all the love....you can...in between!
Trying to have fun.
PLEASE, if you have something upllifting, nice to say; now's the time!
Anything I perceive (which is a lot, being hypersensitive to cricicism)........will be deleted from my memory, LOl, LOL, LOL
Posted by happyflower on December 8, 2005, at 11:16:58
In reply to Re: Green Light-Tempest in a t - pot/TriggerAbuse, posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 10:57:01
Don't ever lose your sense of humor, it is what I really enjoy about you. If you can't laugh at life, then what is the point in living, ya know? I say post what you want, if it is nessary to put trigger warnings on our fantasies, then we must to protect others, but please don't stop posting. I am so glad to have "met" you, and you know summer is coming soon, we need to start planinng for our double wedding! LOL :)
Posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 11:22:27
In reply to Re: Green Light-Tempest in a t - pot/TriggerAbuse, posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 10:57:01
Hey Ally,
Don't let it get you down! I don't think any of the comments anyone made were intended as any kind of personal criticism of you. (Or Happyflower or me - I think of the three of us as the usual suspects for this kind of stuff; hope I haven't left out anyone who wanted to be included!)
I guess it's just a fact that even when people understand different points of view they don't always feel comfortable about it. It's just one of the hazards of relating to other people. Fortunately the rewards outweigh the difficulties!
I'm trying not to think of it as criticism... I'm thinking of it as discomfort. I really don't think anyone is suggesting we're doing anything bad. They just don’t like to read it.
I guess the joking was a bit more emotive than we anticipated. And people have all kinds of different triggers. I know you're a sensitive person who would never hurt anyone on purpose, and I wouldn’t want to either.
You take care, and remember that if people feel a little uneasy about those joking posts it’s because they don’t want you to get hurt.
Tamar
Posted by one woman cine on December 8, 2005, at 11:25:17
In reply to Re: Green Light-Tempest in a t - pot/TriggerAbuse, posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 10:57:01
Hi,
I am sorry you are feeling criticized. I think you can possibly have alot to add to discussions b/c you have so much experience. I personally don't think anyone was criticizing you. Life is hard, & no one wants to make it any harder for anyone else. I do hope you continue to post - I would sincerely hope, however, you do so keeping in mind what previous posters have said - that being lighthearted is necessary, but some joking can be construed by others as hurtful and offensive - depending on where a person happens to be on their journey in life.
I think it's really important to try to see things from someone else's perspective and respect their particular boundaries, even if you may not agree with it or understand it.
Abuse is rough & can really do a number on you, I think alot of people can relate to that. But just as you may be sensitive to criticism, some folks here are sensitive to sexual issues regarding their therapist. I hope you are able to strike a balance. Best of luck.
Posted by cricket on December 8, 2005, at 13:39:43
In reply to The Green Light and my T (Happy, don't miss this, posted by allisonross on December 7, 2005, at 10:55:58
Okay, here goes.
Normally I would stay miles away from this topic because it is irrelevant to me and because I respect people's need to joke and have fun.
However I have to say that it does make me cringe.
I went to therapy because of serious issues with my self. I do not attribute any of these issues to anything anyone did or did not do to me in the past. These were issues of who I am, why I am and what I can possibly do with the rest of my life.
Although my therapy relationship was certainly rocky, I developed profound respect for my therapist and the way he struggled to help me find answers. I am not a conventionally religious person but therapy room certainly seemed other wordly at least or even a sanctuary.
And despite all our struggles, if I step back and define my therapy relationship I would say it was sacred, set apart.
Not something I can bear to have desecrated. Not that that is anyone's intention. But my own issues make me feel like that when these threads dominate babble.
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 14:45:46
In reply to ((((((((((((ALLY)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))), posted by happyflower on December 8, 2005, at 11:16:58
>Hey, Happy! Don't worry, can't lose my sense of humor---it's all that si keeping me "sane"----LOL!!
Don't ever lose your sense of humor, it is what I really enjoy about you. If you can't laugh at life, then what is the point in living, ya know? I say post what you want, if it is nessary to put trigger warnings on our fantasies, then we must to protect others, but please don't stop posting.
Okay!
I am so glad to have "met" you, and you know summer is coming soon, we need to start planinng for our double wedding! LOL :)
I am looking forward to that! Now just gotta ask "him" to marry me, LOL, LOL
Hugs and Love, PIC, Ally
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 14:51:30
In reply to green lights (***various possible triggers***) » allisonross, posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 11:22:27
> Hey Ally,
> Hey, Tamar!
> Don't let it get you down!I'll get over it. Takes me time.
I don't think any of the comments anyone made were intended as any kind of personal criticism of you. (Or Happyflower or me - I think of the three of us as the usual suspects for this kind of stuff; hope I haven't left out anyone who wanted to be included!)
>
> I guess it's just a fact that even when people understand different points of view they don't always feel comfortable about it.I'm different, I guess (well, I've been told that ALL of my life, LOL).....if I don't understand something or agree, i don't say anything.
It's just one of the hazards of relating to other people. Fortunately the rewards outweigh the difficulties!
>
> I'm trying not to think of it as criticism... I'm thinking of it as discomfort. I really don't think anyone is suggesting we're doing anything bad.Talking about ones' feelings isn't bad; just normal.
They just don’t like to read it. So, what kind of a trigger do you use? There's so many things that someone may not want to read; it could boggle ones' mind.
>
> I guess the joking was a bit more emotive than we anticipated. And people have all kinds of different triggers. I know you're a sensitive person who would never hurt anyone on purpose, and I wouldn’t want to either.Thankyou, that is true.
>
> You take care, and remember that if people feel a little uneasy about those joking posts it’s because they don’t want you to get hurt.But I didn't hear anything like concern, etc., it was criticism that I was somehow being disrespectful to my t---Nothing could be further from the truth. Our relationship is unbelievable. Things were read into what I said...as my t says: "We all construct our own versions of reality." This is true, LOL!
Thankyou, (((Tamar))))....hugs, Ally
>
> Tamar
>
>
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