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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:30:28
Well most of it. I am going to go insane.
www.borderlinepersonality.ca/bordersufferinnerc.htm
hope that is right.
I feel sick.
Posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:31:19
In reply to I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children, posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:30:28
Posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:48:50
In reply to I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children, posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:30:28
I looked in the mirror. I don't look insane? I think I'll just go get way high^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
Trippin'
Catch y'all latah.
Posted by Shortelise on December 2, 2005, at 14:00:04
In reply to I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children, posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:30:28
Muffled, the writer is writing about herself, and has made the mistake of saying "you" instead of "I". What she wrote is intensely personal.
Her experiences are her own. I very much dislike her manner of writing.
Is it that you are feeling they reflect yours, how you feel, so much that it makes you feel ill? Could it be that you are identifying a little too much? Could you take a step back, take a few deeps breaths, and give yourself some room to be you, with your own feelings?
Muffled, I hvae a lot of BPD to me, and her stuff hits me too. But it's about her, and I have my own story.
(((Muffled)))
ShortE
Posted by alexandra_k on December 2, 2005, at 14:30:14
In reply to (muffled) » muffled, posted by Shortelise on December 2, 2005, at 14:00:04
mmm
i read a paragraph or two...
and stopped
:-(yeah... that is real personal.
some of it may resonate in a good way...
but if you feel worse (guilty or something after reading some of it)
remember...
the best spokesperson for your little ones
is your little onessometimes...
it is just too hard for me to read other peoples experiences.
i'm like that with the movie "Girl interrupted" even. I watch it sometimes when I feel like a good cry... But sometimes I just feel sick :-(
Posted by cricket on December 2, 2005, at 16:20:48
In reply to I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children, posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:30:28
Hi Muffled,
I had a strong reaction to this too. I don't like it either. I'll try to articulate why
but tomorrow if you don't mind.
I have to get out of this stupid job today.
I think your kid is fine Muffled. She's just giving you a hard time right now. That's what smart, lively kids do.
That's not to diminish any of the turmoil you're going through right now. I know it's rough.
((((Muffled))))
Posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 17:39:03
In reply to Re: I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children » muffled, posted by cricket on December 2, 2005, at 16:20:48
I think I'm sad. I don't like it.
Posted by cricket on December 3, 2005, at 9:39:59
In reply to I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children, posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:30:28
Hey Muffled,
Please don't be so sad. This is hard stuff. We're here for you.
Anyway, since I had a strong reaction to the article and I've seen many very similar I will tell you what I think.
First - This is about BPD. I have no official diagnosis. I don't know whether I have BPD or DID or both or neither. Since I think that diagnoses are more useful to insurance companies than to individuals, I have no desire to have a diagnosis.
I do know that I have what I have always called "voices". Some young, some not so young. Various voices function in different aspects of my life. For example, I have my work self who feels completely separate and different from the kid self who wants to come to your forest.
So that said, I may be coming from a completely different perspective than this writer. So take all criticism with a grain of salt.
But here are the things that I find NOT helpful about this article.
Tone - Preachy. The "You" are this, "You" are that. You must do this. Just like the author did. It switches back and forth from an accusation by the reader's inner child "You hit me, etc." to a very firm statement by the author on what the reader's problem is "You have abandoned your inner child" to an emphatic directive on what the reader must do to "save" themselves.
Melodramatic - "Cowering in the dark recesses of your being" "You are thrusting out toward the agony" Ugh. This felt like daytime trash television.
I know that for me hearing different voices in my head made me feel like a bit of a circus freak. I think in some cases articles like these contributed to that feeling.
The article also reminded me of why I avoided therapy for so many years. The whole "self-help" tone of you are damaged, love yourself, find the inner strength to heal yourself, I will guide you on the inner journey repulses and nauseates me. It feels hollow and condescending, crass, commercial, even snake oil salesmanish.
What I have found helpful
Contemplation and discussion on the nature of the self.
Is it a self-created fictive entity? Why do some of us perceive ourselves as multiple while most people perceive themselves as singular? What is my relationship to the voices? Am I just another voice? Or do I act more as the container for them?Alex and I have discussed some of this. I've discussed some with my T and I've just sat and thought a lot.
Listening to the voices.
I guess I agree a bit with the article here. I do try and listen. Each voice has his or her own unique point of view. They often have something valuable to say even if some are not very articulate or gentle in their communication. Are they always right? No, no more than any individual is always right. Do I automatically do what they say? No, absolutely not. Maybe that's easier for me because it's rarely just one voice nagging away but multiple voices with different and often conflicting desires that I must negotiate.Talking here on Babble. Even those who don't have the same issues have helped me tremendously.
I know that my reaction to articles like this is very subjective. So, muffled, if you are still reading I hope you or anyone else doesn't take offense. If these types of things are helpful, please ignore everything I have said.
Also, please keep talking to us Muffled.
Posted by muffled on December 3, 2005, at 13:01:10
In reply to Re: I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children » muffled, posted by cricket on December 3, 2005, at 9:39:59
I will respond more later. Thx for taking time to write that. I agree with you, that article was bad. I'm glad I'm not alone in this. I'm kinda fried about everything. Goto think awhile. Kids been kinda uppity. She isn't as nice as I thot. She's just a little kid I guess and acts like it. This whole thing takes some getting used to. Thanks again.
Muffled
Posted by B2chica on December 3, 2005, at 16:13:18
In reply to I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children, posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 13:30:28
i must admit, i too only read about 2 paragraphs and it was too triggering, maybe another day.
b2c.
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2005, at 11:42:23
In reply to Re: I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children » muffled, posted by cricket on December 3, 2005, at 9:39:59
> First - This is about BPD. I have no official diagnosis. I don't know whether I have BPD or DID or both or neither. Since I think that diagnoses are more useful to insurance companies than to individuals, I have no desire to have a diagnosis.
***Yeah, I'm with you. My T is the same also, she calls them 'labels'. My T keeps giving me bpd materials.
>
> I do know that I have what I have always called "voices". Some young, some not so young. Various voices function in different aspects of my life. For example, I have my work self who feels completely separate and different from the kid self who wants to come to your forest.
***You can hear them? For me its just like static in my head. But not much these days. I can communicate, but not very well.> Tone - Preachy. The "You" are this, "You" are that. You must do this. Just like the author did. It switches back and forth from an accusation by the reader's inner child "You hit me, etc." to a very firm statement by the author on what the reader's problem is "You have abandoned your inner child" to an emphatic directive on what the reader must do to "save" themselves.
***Yeah, it was real disturbing and accusatory.
>
> Melodramatic - "Cowering in the dark recesses of your being" "You are thrusting out toward the agony" Ugh. This felt like daytime trash television.
***Yeah, way over the top. Glad you think so too.
>
> I know that for me hearing different voices in my head made me feel like a bit of a circus freak. I think in some cases articles like these contributed to that feeling.
***:( You not a freak. I'm REALLY struggling with the freak thing right now cuz my T. asked for the first time last week if my kid wanted to talk. I'd been hinting bout an inside me. Freaked the pissy hell out of me. I don't know what to say or do. If my kid talks to her then she gonna think I a freak. I gonna think I a freak. This whole thing is crazy to me. I only found out that the head noise was fighting etc. very recently. I'm trying not to reject kid cuz it really hurts her, but its just so weird.:(
>
> The article also reminded me of why I avoided therapy for so many years. The whole "self-help" tone of you are damaged, love yourself, find the inner strength to heal yourself, I will guide you on the inner journey repulses and nauseates me. It feels hollow and condescending, crass, commercial, even snake oil salesmanish.
***yeah
>
> What I have found helpful
>
> Contemplation and discussion on the nature of the self.
> Is it a self-created fictive entity? Why do some of us perceive ourselves as multiple while most people perceive themselves as singular? What is my relationship to the voices? Am I just another voice? Or do I act more as the container for them?
***I think I'm the main person. I think the kids been around since I don't know when. Thats what the head noise was. Thats why I was always so conflicted and confused.
>
> Alex and I have discussed some of this. I've discussed some with my T and I've just sat and thought a lot.
***Yeah Alex has amde me REALLY think on stuff.
>
> Listening to the voices.
> I guess I agree a bit with the article here. I do try and listen. Each voice has his or her own unique point of view. They often have something valuable to say even if some are not very articulate or gentle in their communication. Are they always right? No, no more than any individual is always right. Do I automatically do what they say? No, absolutely not. Maybe that's easier for me because it's rarely just one voice nagging away but multiple voices with different and often conflicting desires that I must negotiate.
***Sounds very confusing and tiring for you. I thought my kid was so honest and everything until I got to know her and shes just as full of sh*t as the next guy all right.>
> Talking here on Babble. Even those who don't have the same issues have helped me tremendously.
***Yeah, people are nice here and accepting. I learn lots from reading.
>
> I know that my reaction to articles like this is very subjective. So, muffled, if you are still reading I hope you or anyone else doesn't take offense. If these types of things are helpful, please ignore everything I have said.
***Nah, I agree. Thanks for taking the time to write. I don't feel so bad.
>
> Also, please keep talking to us Muffled.
***Thanks again. I will. Just sometimes its hard is all.
Thanks for sharing cricket.
Muffled.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 15:40:49
In reply to Re: I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children » muffled, posted by cricket on December 3, 2005, at 9:39:59
THat was great Cricket. I couldn't read very much of it... And I couldn't think why it was so upsetting to me. But I think you nailed it.
:-)
Posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 16:28:34
In reply to Re: I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children » cricket, posted by muffled on December 5, 2005, at 11:42:23
> > First - This is about BPD. I have no official diagnosis. I don't know whether I have BPD or DID or both or neither. Since I think that diagnoses are more useful to insurance companies than to individuals, I have no desire to have a diagnosis.
> ***Yeah, I'm with you. My T is the same also, she calls them 'labels'. My T keeps giving me bpd materials.Yeah, I agree with the sentiment about dx. In my experience... When I was given a dx I would read up on it and worry about whether I had a particular symptom or not... I think it is probably more helpful to just focus on the problems you know you have rather than to worry about all this other stuff that may or may not apply... And worse still... That may come to apply as you internalise that...
> ***You can hear them? For me its just like static in my head. But not much these days. I can communicate, but not very well.But you talk to your kid though, eh?
> ***:( You not a freak. I'm REALLY struggling with the freak thing right now cuz my T. asked for the first time last week if my kid wanted to talk.Hmm. I don't know why therapists seem to think that talking to them is so very important... I would have thought... It would be more important for you to feel free to talk about her and talk about the things she says to you and the things you say back etc. To help you guys have less conflict.
And on that note... Something I found (which other people may or may not)... They tended to get pretty upset when I said 'nasty' things about them... Much like most people do, I suppose...
> very recently. I'm trying not to reject kid cuz it really hurts her, but its just so weird.:(
:-)
Yeah. Like if she rejected you or when she goes off at you it hurts you too.
> > Listening to the voices.
> > I guess I agree a bit with the article here. I do try and listen. Each voice has his or her own unique point of view. They often have something valuable to say even if some are not very articulate or gentle in their communication. Are they always right? No, no more than any individual is always right. Do I automatically do what they say? No, absolutely not. Maybe that's easier for me because it's rarely just one voice nagging away but multiple voices with different and often conflicting desires that I must negotiate.Yeah. I guess thats how I think of them too.
Muffled...
Maybe you could have a think about how you want your therapist to approach this. And then... Talk to her about that.
I know... I get very anxious indeed when t's ask / pressure me to let the others talk to them. And... I have chosen to not go down that path. But I guess that is a personal decision. And probably something that is best talked about with your t.
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2005, at 19:01:50
In reply to Re: I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children » muffled, posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 16:28:34
Thx Alex. I see T tomorrow. I think I'll just keep the kid to myself. I printed out the stuff you said about how it is with the inside ones. Just the words, no names etc. I MAY give that to her so she can understand about it and then tell her to BACK OFF on that sh*t. If the kid wants to say something that bad, well, I'll make up my mind then. Unless she sneaks out, the little wench. Done that B4 too.
This majorly sucks.
Its way too personal, if that makes sense?
Thanks again,
Muffled.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 19:20:21
In reply to Re: I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children » alexandra_k, posted by muffled on December 5, 2005, at 19:01:50
> I printed out the stuff you said about how it is with the inside ones.
okay. though of course... that is just how *i* think it is with the inside ones... i think... maybe different people need to figure out how they are best to see what is going on for them. i'm still figuring things out for me. and i don't know how much other people need a different explanation or whatever... its just stuff that i guess i have come to. in thinking about it... and in writing about it and the 'story' kind of unfolds. and with the help of other people and what they have to say as well.
> I MAY give that to her so she can understand about it and then tell her to BACK OFF on that sh*t.
yeah. it might be most helpful... to think about how you would like her to handle it. because it might well be helpful for you to talk about it with her. i guess i'm just wary about the therapist becoming the locus of communication between different parts. i guess i think... that that strategy is more likely to maintain / increase problems that the different parts have communicating with one another.
i know some therapists think that is the way to go about increasing communication... but i'm not convinced...
> If the kid wants to say something that bad, well, I'll make up my mind then.
yeah. she might say things to you. then you can tell your t what she said.
>Unless she sneaks out, the little wench.
yeah. if that happens spontaneously then i think that is very different from someone trying to coax them out...
> Its way too personal, if that makes sense?yeah. even talking about it. even saying what they say... that can be really hard too.
i hope your session goes well.
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2005, at 22:43:06
In reply to Re: I read **trigger**Suffer the little inner children » muffled, posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 19:20:21
Mebbe we could set up a conference call btwn. you and your inside ones, me and my inside ones and my T (who knows, mebbe she got inside ones too?!?!)
Gaaack.
I'm nervous, can you tell.
I hope I can speak at all.
I may just run right back out the door.
Sh*ts.
Yours and Crickets input has been great.
Thanks.
Hey Cricket and hers can be in on the call too. Wouldn't that be the call of the century. Sounds like a Supertramp song.
I gonna take my xanax and go to bed.
Muffled
Posted by cricket on December 6, 2005, at 10:53:50
In reply to Hey Alex, and Cricket, posted by muffled on December 5, 2005, at 22:43:06
Hang in there Muffled.
I know my T had a stint where I felt like he was only talking to my voices. I didn't like it at all. I felt very left out. But it's hard. It was hard for him (T) to figure out how much to engage them. It was hard for me to figure out how much I wanted them engaged.
Very thin tightrope to walk all around I think.
Also, sometimes my T misunderstood my different voices which felt like double misunderstandment because I felt misunderstood then too.
But I tell you the biggest advantage that talking about them or sometimes just letting them talk brought me - normalization.
It suddenly felt okay to have these voices, to talk back to them, to disagree with them, to cry with them, be angry with them, feel sorry for them. All of a sudden (maybe it was more gradual but it felt sudden) I felt okay with it. Not freakish, not ready to be locked away. I felt okay. I still do.
I hope you have a good session Muffled. Let us know how it goes.
Posted by muffled on December 6, 2005, at 16:22:47
In reply to Re: Hey Alex, and Cricket » muffled, posted by cricket on December 6, 2005, at 10:53:50
> Hang in there Muffled.
***THANKS!!
>
> I know my T had a stint where I felt like he was only talking to my voices. I didn't like it at all. I felt very left out. But it's hard. It was hard for him (T) to figure out how much to engage them. It was hard for me to figure out how much I wanted them engaged.
***I am wondering if there's jealousy happening with mine? Dunno. Gona have to take some time and try and sort it out.
>
> Very thin tightrope to walk all around I think.
>
> Also, sometimes my T misunderstood my different voices which felt like double misunderstandment because I felt misunderstood then too.
***:(
>
> But I tell you the biggest advantage that talking about them or sometimes just letting them talk brought me - normalization.
***Yeah, i think thats gonna be a big thing for me as well. Alex was saying as how they just want to be recognized and aknowledged. I think thats a big thing with my kid. Real big....and I keep ignoring her.:(
>
> It suddenly felt okay to have these voices, to talk back to them, to disagree with them, to cry with them, be angry with them, feel sorry for them. All of a sudden (maybe it was more gradual but it felt sudden) I felt okay with it. Not freakish, not ready to be locked away. I felt okay. I still do.
***When I first found my parts I was thrilled. Alla sudden so much stuff made sense. I wasn't nearly so perpetually confused. the noise just calmed right down.
But now I'm not so happy, cuz its real. I am hurting and causing pain to a person, just a kid. Sh*t. And she has emotions and sh*t that I don't do. Sh*t. And she's needy. Sh*t. And she's illogical. Sh*t. And she calls me on stuff. Sh*t. She makes me feel like I'm the bitch from hell cuz I so mean to her. Sh*t. I need her if I wanna be whole. Sh*t.
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............Thanks Cricket,
Muffled, or something.PS Wrot about my session elsewhere, it was ok. My T is pretty smart I guess. However I will NOT get attached.
This is the end of the thread.
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