![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by daisym on May 22, 2005, at 22:37:08
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » daisym, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 22:22:39
Exactly. I think there is huge potential for pain if this is explored. On the surface he says that I've learned to connect being close to having sex. And I've let him be close to me. So he said it is perfectly understandable that I would begin to get these sensations (not conscious feelings) when I'm close to him.
I have to figure this out before it wrecks my therapy. I've stewed about it all weekend. I'm back and forth between "no big deal" -- like you said, it happens a lot -- to "oh my God, how could I, of all people, feel like this?!"
I wish I was aroused more often and more easily. It wouldn't freak me out now as much, if this was typical for me. It just isn't.
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 22:44:33
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Dinah, posted by daisym on May 22, 2005, at 22:37:08
Well, you're doing what you need to do to get through this.
Talking it to death until it totally loses whatever power, meaning, and purpose it once had.
Or at least that's how I deal with things. :)
One day you'll be able to think of sexual feelings and yawn.
(I hope you understand what I mean by this. Otherwise I think my post could come across way wrong. It's one of the reasons I go to therapy. Because doing that always does help me.)
Posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 7:46:07
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » daisym, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 22:22:39
> Goodness, no. You're making perfect sense. If i ever felt that i was attracted sexually to my therapist, i'd be horrified. Because being sexually attracted is ok for women, but i'm not a woman. And it would be wrong and icky.
Maybe you don’t need to worry. You probably won’t feel attracted to him as long as you aren’t a woman. If someday you become a woman, you might experience sexual attraction, but it might feel OK if you were a woman. And you might not feel attracted to *him*, especially if he’s not your type. And anyway, people don’t become women overnight... it takes most people a few years, at least! It takes time for the ickiness to be transformed into something more like desire.
> And if he were ever aroused in a session, even just because he was anxious, i'd need to take a bath for a year and a half because i'd never be able to believe he didn't think i was a woman.
Is it possible that it’s not about you? I mean, he could get physically aroused just because of the subject matter or whatever, without actually thinking of you as a woman. I’m pretty sure it’s normal for everyone to have physiological feelings of arousal without the emotional feelings of desire for someone. So he could experience arousal in your presence without it having anything to do with you.
> I just have the sensations separated from any real meaning, because for me they have no real meaning.
I really think that’s true for everyone to some extent. Often there’s no real meaning. It’s just that for you it seems as if you there’s pretty much never a connection between arousal and desire.
> But... It'd be ok with my therapist if they did. In fact, I still think he'd consider it progress if I was sexually attracted to anyone, even him.
Do you ever find *yourself* sexually attractive? I mean, I know it’s possible to enjoy erotic feelings while alone without really thinking about appearance, but do you like to look at yourself? (Don’t answer if it’s too personal.) I must admit, sometimes I like to look at myself, but other times I just don’t want to.
> I still think that sexual feelings (as opposed to sensations) in therapy may be linked somehow to feelings of safety to explore all parts of us. I think they're probably very therapeutic. But have the potential to be painful.
Oh yes! And maybe that’s true of the sensations too. I suppose the sensations are very basic, but they can probably be therapeutic if they occur in a safe space. If arousal occurs because of anxiety but can be welcomed into a safe space, then perhaps it signals the possibility of arousal being associated with comfort. In a way, your therapist would be the idea person with whom to enjoy arousal-without-desire. I’m thinking of your suckling pup image. Apparently, small babies experience physiological arousal while breastfeeding... Maybe it could feel something like that.
Or maybe I’m off the mark. But I love the idea of therapy being a safe place to feel aroused.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 10:14:23
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 7:46:07
Tamar, you are never off the mark. I hate to sound like a groupie or anything, but I really wish you were coming to the party. :) I'd love to get to know you better; you have such a fascinating combination of wisdom, practical sense, and sensitivity. My therapist really loves your posts.
> > Goodness, no. You're making perfect sense. If i ever felt that i was attracted sexually to my therapist, i'd be horrified. Because being sexually attracted is ok for women, but i'm not a woman. And it would be wrong and icky.
>
> Maybe you don’t need to worry. You probably won’t feel attracted to him as long as you aren’t a woman. If someday you become a woman, you might experience sexual attraction, but it might feel OK if you were a woman. And you might not feel attracted to *him*, especially if he’s not your type. And anyway, people don’t become women overnight... it takes most people a few years, at least! It takes time for the ickiness to be transformed into something more like desire.
>
Thank you for understanding, Tamar. It would take years and years and years and years, and he's not my type. Besides by then he'd be really really old. Too old for a brand new woman. :)
> > And if he were ever aroused in a session, even just because he was anxious, i'd need to take a bath for a year and a half because i'd never be able to believe he didn't think i was a woman.
>
> Is it possible that it’s not about you? I mean, he could get physically aroused just because of the subject matter or whatever, without actually thinking of you as a woman. I’m pretty sure it’s normal for everyone to have physiological feelings of arousal without the emotional feelings of desire for someone. So he could experience arousal in your presence without it having anything to do with you.
>
I think it'd be possible, but I wouldn't be able to shake the fear. Fortunately, I've never been aware of that happening, despite the subject matter. I don't think the subject matter can get any more arousing. So I think I can rely on him either being a eunuch or being able to pass as one in therapy. :)
>
> > I just have the sensations separated from any real meaning, because for me they have no real meaning.
>
> I really think that’s true for everyone to some extent. Often there’s no real meaning. It’s just that for you it seems as if you there’s pretty much never a connection between arousal and desire.
>
> > But... It'd be ok with my therapist if they did. In fact, I still think he'd consider it progress if I was sexually attracted to anyone, even him.
>
> Do you ever find *yourself* sexually attractive? I mean, I know it’s possible to enjoy erotic feelings while alone without really thinking about appearance, but do you like to look at yourself? (Don’t answer if it’s too personal.) I must admit, sometimes I like to look at myself, but other times I just don’t want to.
>
No, never. I hate the body I'm imprisoned in. I don't feel any feelings of ownership about it. It seems like the young pictures of me look like me, aging appropriately. Then wham. They don't look like me, older. They just don't look like me. I feel no sense of connection at all to the body I'm in today or pictures from fifteen or so on. I suddenly quit looking like Daddy and started looking like Mother. Probably the same time I stopped calling her Mama and started calling her Mother. Hmmmm...
>
> > I still think that sexual feelings (as opposed to sensations) in therapy may be linked somehow to feelings of safety to explore all parts of us. I think they're probably very therapeutic. But have the potential to be painful.
>
> Oh yes! And maybe that’s true of the sensations too. I suppose the sensations are very basic, but they can probably be therapeutic if they occur in a safe space. If arousal occurs because of anxiety but can be welcomed into a safe space, then perhaps it signals the possibility of arousal being associated with comfort. In a way, your therapist would be the idea person with whom to enjoy arousal-without-desire. I’m thinking of your suckling pup image. Apparently, small babies experience physiological arousal while breastfeeding... Maybe it could feel something like that.
>
> Or maybe I’m off the mark. But I love the idea of therapy being a safe place to feel aroused.
>
>
Ooh, I love that bit about the babies. So far I haven't exactly welcomed the sensations. Just noted them. But I do love that idea.
Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 13:08:52
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Tamar, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 10:14:23
It is possible that it is your body's basic response. Even though intellectually you might deny that you are a woman - you ARE a woman. Physiologically. So your body will respond when it feels like. I think beyond a point, we really don't have too much control over our body's responses. So even though you think you are not a woman, and your therapist is not a man or not your type, I think finally it is your body's basic response to talking very intimately with another man. You may or may not like it, but I think you don't have that much control over yourself as you think you do.
Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 13:45:19
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 13:08:52
Hi Dinah,
After rethinking, I think you are attracted to your therapist - at some level. Even though you are not aware of it, and might cringe at the mention of it.I think otherwise, it is not possible for someone to talk about other person endlessly. Like you have been doing here for atleast as far as I know (3 years??)
You might think you are not a woman, and he is not your type, and you might think that you are thinking of him as a big mommy figure etc, but I think basically you are pretty attracted to him.
It seems impossible to me, that I would want to talk about anyone for any lengths of time if I am not attracted to that person in some way. For instance, I have a new therapist now, who is a she, and I don't talk about her at all here, even though I basically like her.
Just the fact that you have been spending all your time in the past few years constantly thinking about your T and writing about him and analyzing his every gestures and reprocessing everything that happened with him - indicates to me that probably you are quite attracted to him deeply. Even though you yourself may not be aware of it. It is nothing bad, but just something to think about.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 14:26:56
In reply to A blind guess » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 13:45:19
I tried it at some point. It's such a cliche, you know? So I tried to fantasize about him. Just didn't go anywhere for me.
Little girls have physiological reactions, just like little boys do. Any mom of very little children can tell you that. You don't have to have a grown up body to be aroused. I have very clear memories of physiological responses that at the time I didn't understand more than to know they felt good.
What you say may be true of some people. But what's true of some people isn't true of all people. It's not true of me.
I'm perfectly capable of obsessing about any number of things. :) I stay up late and watch Dr. Bob administrate. But I'm not attracted to Dr. Bob either. (Sorry Dr. Bob) And.. Well, I'd better not go there.
Sometimes a banana is just a banana.
Although I do think my therapist was wrong (and right). My extra sensitivity to sensation follows through to this area as well, and my experiences are probably not typical. But I'm not upping the mood stabilizer even more, and making myself even groggier, just for this.
Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 14:35:33
In reply to Nope » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 14:26:56
Ok. Maybe what you are saying is what is right for you. I was perhaps coming at it from a more general perspective.
I have never obsessed about anyone in my life if it was not some sort of attraction. Maybe once when I was a kid, I used to obsess about my teacher and she was a lady. But other than that, I don't remember ever obsessing about anyone in a non sexual way. So it is very hard for me to comprehend it. I have liked lot of people (men and women) non sexually. I have couple of male friends who I am not attracted to at all - just good friends. But I don't obsess about them. In fact I don't even think about them. So it feels very weird to me that someone can obsess about a person in this way.
Posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 14:48:15
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Tamar, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 10:14:23
> Tamar, you are never off the mark. I hate to sound like a groupie or anything, but I really wish you were coming to the party. :) I'd love to get to know you better; you have such a fascinating combination of wisdom, practical sense, and sensitivity. My therapist really loves your posts.
I was your groupie first! I really wish I could come to Chicago. But I can’t afford it (in terms of money or time) at the moment. I’d very much like to meet you too. Maybe one day…
> Thank you for understanding, Tamar. It would take years and years and years and years, and he's not my type. Besides by then he'd be really really old. Too old for a brand new woman. :)
Good point. These emotional age differences never work out!
> I think it'd be possible, but I wouldn't be able to shake the fear. Fortunately, I've never been aware of that happening, despite the subject matter. I don't think the subject matter can get any more arousing. So I think I can rely on him either being a eunuch or being able to pass as one in therapy. :)
Passing as a eunuch is even better than the real thing. Apparently back in the days of castrati singers, eunuchs were much desired. They could keep going for hours, and no fear of pregnancy, or so I’ve heard. Obviously you don’t want that!
> No, never. I hate the body I'm imprisoned in. I don't feel any feelings of ownership about it. It seems like the young pictures of me look like me, aging appropriately. Then wham. They don't look like me, older. They just don't look like me. I feel no sense of connection at all to the body I'm in today or pictures from fifteen or so on. I suddenly quit looking like Daddy and started looking like Mother. Probably the same time I stopped calling her Mama and started calling her Mother. Hmmmm...
Interesting. Were you aware of that change at the time? Do you think your father noticed it? Or your mother? If it was as dramatic as you suggest, it might have made quite a difference to the family dynamics. It’s hard enough going through puberty without changing your external identity!
> Ooh, I love that bit about the babies. So far I haven't exactly welcomed the sensations. Just noted them. But I do love that idea.
Yeah, I like it too. In my case it’s all a bit frighteningly Freudian, but I’ve been trying to learn to accept even the scary feelings as normal and try to embrace them. The safety helped a lot.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 17:05:16
In reply to Re: Nope » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 14:35:33
I obsess all the time, about all sorts of things. My mind gets stuck in ruminative ruts. I'm the sort of person who can be (and has been) a Trekker, complete with Trek conferences. Who can get obsessed with eBay and spend a fortune.
Moreover, human interaction and attachment is relatively new to me, and thus very interesting. I'd love to be able to go back and study to be a therapist, although I don't actually want to be a therapist. :)
I read therapy books, and professional magazines. I get obsessed with other people's therapy on Babble. Heck, I'm obsessed with Babble. And you know, there's that whole computer vibration thing going on too. So being obsessed with my therapist is sort of a no brainer for me.
I'm totally comfortable with obsessing. It's what I *do*.
It may not seem like it from my posts, but there are things I don't mention here. And you can trust me when I say that there are many things about me that fit in with a sexuality far too immature to include a sexual crush or attraction to my therapist.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 17:19:55
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 14:48:15
> I was your groupie first! I really wish I could come to Chicago. But I can’t afford it (in terms of money or time) at the moment. I’d very much like to meet you too. Maybe one day…
Maybe so. Though I think I may have used up my Babble credit with my husband for a long long time. Have I mentioned he doesn't like this place?
> > I think it'd be possible, but I wouldn't be able to shake the fear. Fortunately, I've never been aware of that happening, despite the subject matter. I don't think the subject matter can get any more arousing. So I think I can rely on him either being a eunuch or being able to pass as one in therapy. :)
>
> Passing as a eunuch is even better than the real thing. Apparently back in the days of castrati singers, eunuchs were much desired. They could keep going for hours, and no fear of pregnancy, or so I’ve heard. Obviously you don’t want that!Whoah. Didn't know that. Nooooo, definitely not. Passing as asexual is way better. Plus it reminds me of Daddy.
> Interesting. Were you aware of that change at the time? Do you think your father noticed it? Or your mother? If it was as dramatic as you suggest, it might have made quite a difference to the family dynamics. It’s hard enough going through puberty without changing your external identity!
>
Oh, that's a very long story. There are big gaps in my memory, so it's sort of like one minute I looked like me, the next like my mother, but in truth a fair amount of time probably passed. And to complicate matters, I was a completely different person in tenth and twelth grades (extending over into college). I always joke (and it's just a joke) that I was taken over by aliens. I refer to me at that time as Happy Dinah, and I was actually quite proud of my body, and enjoyed my sexuality and to a limited extent boys. But it was only for those two periods of time. The aliens left and I became plain old me again. My husband says I caught him under false pretenses. Although you'd think at least ten years of dating after my return to me was enough to clear me of that accusation.I just realized you know tons and tons about me, but I know very very little about you. You remind me of another Babble friend in that. :) I know you terminated with your therapist recently, that you were attracted to him, and that you mostly think it was a good time to terminate?
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 17:20:22
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 14:48:15
Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 17:52:07
In reply to Re: Nope » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 17:05:16
Yeah, now that you mentioned, I also have those kind of obsessions.
I sometimes listen to the same song over and over and over again - or read the same novel again and again and again.
Babble has been an obsession lately for me too.
Or sometimes I obsess about my health or money or relationships or about my happiness.
But as far other person is concerned, I haven't had any of those obsessions in a non romantic way.
I still somehow deep down think you are attracted to your T. Even though you totally don't know it yourself. I am almost pretty sure of it.. and I think one day in therapy it might come out for you. I think you have managed to block it out completely from your conscious mind - being as averse to being a woman as you are. Just a thinking, I might be totally off mark. But remember I told you about the emotional abuse and being a surrogate wife to your dad a while back and you denied it and after sometime you said your therapist told you the same thing? This might again turn out to be a same pattern. I think sometimes when people perceive us, they know more about us than we know about ourselves.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 18:21:15
In reply to Re: Nope » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 17:52:07
Well, I suppose I won't convince you otherwise so I won't try beyond this post. You're free to believe what you want.
But in general, I'm only attracted to people along the same general type as Dr. Drew (or my husband) or who are extremely high energy. My therapist is neither. I love him, of course, as a therapist mommy. But that's it.
You don't think I've explored the possibility? Of course I have. I've looked deep within myself. Because I do think it's emotional infidelity in a way. Even though my husband doesn't want me to do with him what I do with my therapist. Even though on some level I know it's ok to appreciate my husband for what he is, and get my needs for therapy met elsewhere, with my husband's full knowledge and consent. So I've made a full and honest moral inventory with myself. If attraction had been there, I'd have found it. Because I did look for it, and was open to finding it.
I guess I find the assumption that it must be there sort of puzzling. I've had close connections with guys all my life that had absolutely nothing to do with sex beyond the interesting peek into a different point of view. And sometimes the very differences lead to a charge in the atmosphere. But I haven't even noticed that with my therapist. He could be a female for all I know, other than his lack of familiarity with the equipment.
Posted by fallsfall on May 23, 2005, at 18:28:53
In reply to Nope » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 14:26:56
> I tried it at some point. It's such a cliche, you know? So I tried to fantasize about him. Just didn't go anywhere for me.
>
> Little girls have physiological reactions, just like little boys do. Any mom of very little children can tell you that. You don't have to have a grown up body to be aroused. I have very clear memories of physiological responses that at the time I didn't understand more than to know they felt good.
>
> What you say may be true of some people. But what's true of some people isn't true of all people. It's not true of me.
>
> I'm perfectly capable of obsessing about any number of things. :) I stay up late and watch Dr. Bob administrate. But I'm not attracted to Dr. Bob either. (Sorry Dr. Bob) And.. Well, I'd better not go there.
>
> Sometimes a banana is just a banana.
>
> Although I do think my therapist was wrong (and right). My extra sensitivity to sensation follows through to this area as well, and my experiences are probably not typical. But I'm not upping the mood stabilizer even more, and making myself even groggier, just for this.SOMETIMES A BANANA IS JUST A BANANA????
Phallic references usually go right over my head, but this one.....
Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 18:35:27
In reply to chuckle. » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 18:21:15
hmm.. I have had some male friends but so far, I haven't really thought much about anyone if I am not attracted to them in some way. If I am not attracted, it is more of a general liking and nice thougts about them maybe at max once a week rather than this kind of obsession. But I haven't spoken very closely to any male friends either, so maybe that is a reason. I have spoken about lot of things in general, but I haven't revealed too much about me to anyone. In fact none of my male friends (for that matter even women friends) knew that I even had rheumatoid arthritis - even those to whom I supposedly was very close and liked a lot. So they were always kept at a distance.
Maybe that is a reason why I find it puzzling that you could talk about your T so much here and yet not be attracted to him. But I suppose it is possible.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 18:44:33
In reply to Re: Nope » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on May 23, 2005, at 18:28:53
Sometimes a banana is just a banana, Anna.
I shouldn't really use it, because in context it was clear that the banana wasn't just a banana at all. But I like the sound of it.
Posted by crushedout on May 23, 2005, at 21:25:36
In reply to One reason I wanted to post this, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 19:06:49
Well, I, for one, am glad you posted this. It's a great thread. I have more to say but want to read the rest first.
Posted by Tamar on May 24, 2005, at 3:46:30
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 17:19:55
> Maybe so. Though I think I may have used up my Babble credit with my husband for a long long time. Have I mentioned he doesn't like this place?
That’s unfortunate… Maybe he doesn’t realize that if you didn’t have this outlet you might expect to take up more of HIS emotional resources!
> > Passing as a eunuch is even better than the real thing. Apparently back in the days of castrati singers, eunuchs were much desired. They could keep going for hours, and no fear of pregnancy, or so I’ve heard. Obviously you don’t want that!
>
> Whoah. Didn't know that. Nooooo, definitely not. Passing as asexual is way better. Plus it reminds me of Daddy.Yeah, I prefer to think of my dad as asexual too. I mean, I know he probably had sex with my mother twice, because somehow my brother and I got here, but I have a secret fantasy that fertilization occurred in a petri dish.
> Oh, that's a very long story. There are big gaps in my memory, so it's sort of like one minute I looked like me, the next like my mother, but in truth a fair amount of time probably passed. And to complicate matters, I was a completely different person in tenth and twelth grades (extending over into college). I always joke (and it's just a joke) that I was taken over by aliens. I refer to me at that time as Happy Dinah, and I was actually quite proud of my body, and enjoyed my sexuality and to a limited extent boys. But it was only for those two periods of time. The aliens left and I became plain old me again. My husband says I caught him under false pretenses. Although you'd think at least ten years of dating after my return to me was enough to clear me of that accusation.
Was there an eleventh grade in between tenth and twelfth, in which things were different again? Or was it the same in eleventh grade? Or did you skip a grade?
I’m sure you’ve asked yourself dozens of times why the aliens left when they did. Just like I’ve asked myself dozens of times why I had one and only one relationship that worked sexually. In my case, the aliens came in my last year of college and I was immensely happy about it. I thought I’d finally cracked the code and figured out how to have a fulfilling sex life. I started having sex quite young, and it never really worked, until that relationship. But the relationship ended and sex has never been particularly good with anyone else. And I know the problem is within me; it’s not about the men. There might possibly be a reason but I have no memory of anything that would constitute a reason. But I’ve been working on the sex thing quite a lot recently and it’s improving.
> I just realized you know tons and tons about me, but I know very very little about you. You remind me of another Babble friend in that. :) I know you terminated with your therapist recently, that you were attracted to him, and that you mostly think it was a good time to terminate?
Maybe I just haven’t been around Babble long enough to have emerged much as a person. Yeah, I terminated a couple of months ago and it was probably a good time. I’m feeling much better. I had a couple of depressive episodes when I was younger but nothing too scary, and then I became very depressed a couple of years ago. It took a while to realize I was depressed but I did therapy for the first time and found it an incredibly intense experience. I’m glad I did it, though.
Is there anything in particular you’re curious about? I’m prepared to share!
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2005, at 10:57:18
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » JenStar, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 21:19:59
> But I'm guessing from the responses that my experience might exceed the high end of normal. :( Oh dear. My therapist was just trying to make me feel better. :((
He amended his statement somewhat. He said that he meant given my high degree of sensitivity, my reactions were "normal". But that I might have to go through a large number of people to find ones with the same sensitivity to stimuli that they would be able to feel the computer vibrate through the table down to the floor and up through the chair. And that he still didn't think I was freakish, and didn't need to increase the mood stabilizers for this reason unless it was causing me a problem.
Ok, I feel better now. I must have misunderstood him earlier.
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2005, at 11:13:32
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 24, 2005, at 3:46:30
> > Maybe so. Though I think I may have used up my Babble credit with my husband for a long long time. Have I mentioned he doesn't like this place?
>
> That’s unfortunate… Maybe he doesn’t realize that if you didn’t have this outlet you might expect to take up more of HIS emotional resources!
>
He's got this whole internet/mental health/axe murderer thought association going on. :)> > Oh, that's a very long story. There are big gaps in my memory, so it's sort of like one minute I looked like me, the next like my mother, but in truth a fair amount of time probably passed. And to complicate matters, I was a completely different person in tenth and twelth grades (extending over into college). I always joke (and it's just a joke) that I was taken over by aliens. I refer to me at that time as Happy Dinah, and I was actually quite proud of my body, and enjoyed my sexuality and to a limited extent boys. But it was only for those two periods of time. The aliens left and I became plain old me again. My husband says I caught him under false pretenses. Although you'd think at least ten years of dating after my return to me was enough to clear me of that accusation.
>
> Was there an eleventh grade in between tenth and twelfth, in which things were different again? Or was it the same in eleventh grade? Or did you skip a grade?No there was an eleventh grade. I was me in eleventh grade, the aliens released their hold. The funny thing is that both my husband and another boy I knew well as a friend say that I wasn't particularly attractive in eleventh grade, but was attractive in tenth and twelth. Attitude counts for a lot, I suppose.
And when I say twelth grade, that's not
actually accurate. It went into at least part of the first semester of college.
>
> I’m sure you’ve asked yourself dozens of times why the aliens left when they did. Just like I’ve asked myself dozens of times why I had one and only one relationship that worked sexually. In my case, the aliens came in my last year of college and I was immensely happy about it. I thought I’d finally cracked the code and figured out how to have a fulfilling sex life. I started having sex quite young, and it never really worked, until that relationship. But the relationship ended and sex has never been particularly good with anyone else. And I know the problem is within me; it’s not about the men. There might possibly be a reason but I have no memory of anything that would constitute a reason. But I’ve been working on the sex thing quite a lot recently and it’s improving.
>
I'm so proud of you for that! I'm glad I wasn't the only one taken over by pod people during early adulthood. I'm sorry it didn't last for you, and applaud you for working hard to get those feelings back. I think I concentrate more on what happened to create such an unaccustomed state, than why it quit. Though we've spent some time on that in therapy and have some ideas. But I long to get it back. Happy Dinah is what I'd love to be all the time. Actually, the aliens took me over again for a couple of days a couple of years ago (an experience I haven't been able to recreate), and my therapist thinks it may not be such a good thing to live life as Happy Dinah. lol.I know at least one Babbler thinks that Happy Dinah is the result of a long lasting mild hypomania. I like the alien idea better.
> Is there anything in particular you’re curious about? I’m prepared to share!
Only what you're willing to share. And it doesn't have to be right here. :) No pressure. I just suddenly realized how much I've been helped by you, and felt like I'm taking advantage. The only time I recall you asking for help, I wasn't able emotionally to give it because I'm just not rational about termination.
Not to mention just wanting to get to know you.
Oh, I know. As I said, I bring your posts in frequently, and I've wondered as I've said your posting name the correct way to pronounce it. How's that for an easy start?
No wait. That's for me again.
Sigh.
Posted by Tamar on May 25, 2005, at 17:33:11
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Tamar, posted by Dinah on May 24, 2005, at 11:13:32
> He's got this whole internet/mental health/axe murderer thought association going on. :)
Ah yes. Well, I’ve never owned an axe, so I’ll just have to fit myself into the first two categories.
Funny... I can’t help remembering an occasion when I went out to put something in the trunk of my father-in-law’s car, and when I opened it there was nothing in it but a pair of women’s shoes and an axe. I was intensely curious, but didn’t like to ask questions... As far as I know, though, he has no mental illness and doesn’t post on Babble.
> No there was an eleventh grade. I was me in eleventh grade, the aliens released their hold. The funny thing is that both my husband and another boy I knew well as a friend say that I wasn't particularly attractive in eleventh grade, but was attractive in tenth and twelth. Attitude counts for a lot, I suppose.
Attitude is everything. Well, almost everything... along with personal hygiene.
> I'm so proud of you for that! I'm glad I wasn't the only one taken over by pod people during early adulthood. I'm sorry it didn't last for you, and applaud you for working hard to get those feelings back. I think I concentrate more on what happened to create such an unaccustomed state, than why it quit. Though we've spent some time on that in therapy and have some ideas. But I long to get it back. Happy Dinah is what I'd love to be all the time. Actually, the aliens took me over again for a couple of days a couple of years ago (an experience I haven't been able to recreate), and my therapist thinks it may not be such a good thing to live life as Happy Dinah. lol.
>
> I know at least one Babbler thinks that Happy Dinah is the result of a long lasting mild hypomania. I like the alien idea better.
>Well, I think regular Dinah is wonderful, but maybe Happy Dinah would be wonderful too, and, well, happier.
> > Is there anything in particular you’re curious about? I’m prepared to share!
>
> Only what you're willing to share. And it doesn't have to be right here. :) No pressure. I just suddenly realized how much I've been helped by you, and felt like I'm taking advantage. The only time I recall you asking for help, I wasn't able emotionally to give it because I'm just not rational about termination.I would never think you were taking advantage. And I know that what I was asking before would be something sensitive, and that not everyone could respond. That’s the joy of babble, isn’t it – even if we’re not able to respond to every post, there’s usually someone who feels up for it. And you’ve helped me a lot too. So don’t go thinking about taking advantage or stuff like that!
> Oh, I know. As I said, I bring your posts in frequently, and I've wondered as I've said your posting name the correct way to pronounce it. How's that for an easy start?
It’s not my name in real life, and I’m aware that there are two ways of saying it. I prefer a flat A (like the A in babble, hence Tahmar), rather than the other way (Taymar). I suppose it’s because it’s a Hebrew name (I think it means ‘date palm’) and so I like it to sound like the original, with a flat A. But if you prefer to say it ‘Taymar’, that’s fine too! Obviously, with my penchant for Hebraic names, I like your posting name as well! I sometimes wonder if you chose it for its sound or its meaning or the stories associated with it.
Posted by Dinah on May 25, 2005, at 18:00:15
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 25, 2005, at 17:33:11
> > He's got this whole internet/mental health/axe murderer thought association going on. :)
>
> Ah yes. Well, I’ve never owned an axe, so I’ll just have to fit myself into the first two categories.
> Funny... I can’t help remembering an occasion when I went out to put something in the trunk of my father-in-law’s car, and when I opened it there was nothing in it but a pair of women’s shoes and an axe. I was intensely curious, but didn’t like to ask questions... As far as I know, though, he has no mental illness and doesn’t post on Babble.
>
ROFLYou showed great restraint!
> I would never think you were taking advantage. And I know that what I was asking before would be something sensitive, and that not everyone could respond. That’s the joy of babble, isn’t it – even if we’re not able to respond to every post, there’s usually someone who feels up for it. And you’ve helped me a lot too. So don’t go thinking about taking advantage or stuff like that!
I've long felt that that *was* the joy of Babble. That the responsibility of reciprocity was spread to many, so that you can give and take as you can or need.
>
> > Oh, I know. As I said, I bring your posts in frequently, and I've wondered as I've said your posting name the correct way to pronounce it. How's that for an easy start?
>
> It’s not my name in real life, and I’m aware that there are two ways of saying it. I prefer a flat A (like the A in babble, hence Tahmar), rather than the other way (Taymar). I suppose it’s because it’s a Hebrew name (I think it means ‘date palm’) and so I like it to sound like the original, with a flat A. But if you prefer to say it ‘Taymar’, that’s fine too! Obviously, with my penchant for Hebraic names, I like your posting name as well! I sometimes wonder if you chose it for its sound or its meaning or the stories associated with it.
>
>
Ahhh. I figured you were named after that Tamar, but that didn't help much. I read better than I pronounce. I actually got in a major disagreement with my Sunday School class when that Tamar was classified as one of the Bad Girls of the Bible. I ended up bringing in a copy of the commentary to the Torah to the Sunday School teacher. :)I also love Hebraic names, and most of the names I was considering if I had a daughter (other than family names) came from that source. But "Dinah" has a far humbler beginning. "Dinah" is named after a dog. :D
Posted by Tamar on May 26, 2005, at 5:54:00
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Tamar, posted by Dinah on May 25, 2005, at 18:00:15
> Ahhh. I figured you were named after that Tamar, but that didn't help much. I read better than I pronounce. I actually got in a major disagreement with my Sunday School class when that Tamar was classified as one of the Bad Girls of the Bible. I ended up bringing in a copy of the commentary to the Torah to the Sunday School teacher. :)
Good for you! Tamar is completely vindicated in the story, so I don’t know why people persist in suggesting her actions are immoral. And it’s funny how people say unflattering things about Tamar, but they never castigate Ruth for going to the threshing floor and uncovering Boaz’s ‘feet’…
> I also love Hebraic names, and most of the names I was considering if I had a daughter (other than family names) came from that source. But "Dinah" has a far humbler beginning. "Dinah" is named after a dog. :D
Ah! Yes, it’s nice to use a pet’s name for something like this. Actually, I thought of using the name of a cat we had when I was a child, but it was already taken.
Posted by Dinah on May 26, 2005, at 14:22:59
In reply to Re: One reason I wanted to post this » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 26, 2005, at 5:54:00
> Good for you! Tamar is completely vindicated in the story, so I don’t know why people persist in suggesting her actions are immoral. And it’s funny how people say unflattering things about Tamar, but they never castigate Ruth for going to the threshing floor and uncovering Boaz’s ‘feet’…
>
Just as a cynical guess... Because Tamar waited for the men in her family to do what they should have under the law, and when they didn't she took matters in her own hands. She didn't continue to be passive.Which was probably more pleasing to the Almighty than to the men who write books about the Bad Women of the Bible. :)
This is the end of the thread.
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