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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 18:33:09
I am remembering so much of hurt from my dad today, and I am almost raged.
Once, when I was 7 or 8, because I did a mischief when I was playing with someone, my dad told me that I needed to die as a punishment.. that I had to hang myself. He made me get a rope, tie a noose with it, and asked me to say goodbye to my mom - telling her that I needed to die, and actually took me and put me inside the noose in the rope. And then he stopped. And he told me he intended that only as a lesson to me so I won't commit the mischief again.
And till today I shake with fear whenever I remember it.
For some reason, I am not able to forgive my dad today at all.
Posted by shrinking violet on April 29, 2005, at 18:46:21
In reply to How do I forgive, posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 18:33:09
my gosh, {{{{{{{{{{{{pinkeye}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I'm sorry you had to endure that, hon. I feel for you. You have every right to be enraged at what he put you through. I think the concept of forgiveness is more for the victim/sufferer to use as a tool to move past the hurt, etc, and not necessarily an angelic act toward the perpetrator. If anger is what you need to feel right now, that is okay, there is nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make you any "less" of a person in any way. I hope you find some peace this weekend.
SV
Posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 19:20:59
In reply to How do I forgive, posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 18:33:09
I just realized it could be a trigger to someone.. so added the keyword in the subject.
> I am remembering so much of hurt from my dad today, and I am almost raged.
>
> Once, when I was 7 or 8, because I did a mischief when I was playing with someone, my dad told me that I needed to die as a punishment.. that I had to hang myself. He made me get a rope, tie a noose with it, and asked me to say goodbye to my mom - telling her that I needed to die, and actually took me and put me inside the noose in the rope. And then he stopped. And he told me he intended that only as a lesson to me so I won't commit the mischief again.
>
> And till today I shake with fear whenever I remember it.
>
> For some reason, I am not able to forgive my dad today at all.
Posted by Susan47 on April 29, 2005, at 22:32:11
In reply to Re: How do I forgive **Trigger**, posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 19:20:59
I don't think everybody deserves forgiveness either. If he's apologized, ever, if he's ever shown that he felt badly for what he did, then it would be easier to forgive.
On the other hand, if and when someone's forgiven, I don't think that means the forgiver has to forget what happened. Time will eventually take care of the forgetting, but nature tells us, for a while, that it doesn't hurt to remember the reason someone needed our forgiveness. IMO, anyway.
Posted by Poet on April 30, 2005, at 2:57:33
In reply to How do I forgive, posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 18:33:09
Hi Pinkeye,
I know that some therapists say that you have to forgive those who abused and hurt you, mine says you need to forgive yourself for believing you deserved what they did to you.
I will never forgive my brother, but hopefully someday I will forgive myself and stop blaming myself. I hope you forgive yourself, too.
((((pinkeye))))
Poet
Posted by Tamar on May 1, 2005, at 7:33:32
In reply to How do I forgive, posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 18:33:09
That’s a truly terrible story. You must have been absolutely terrified.
I don’t think it’s possible to forgive until you’ve worked through all your anger. And even then, forgiveness isn’t always appropriate or meaningful.
It might be more useful to find ways of searching for your own internal peace about events like this. And to find new ways of thinking about and relating to your father that can do justice to your humanity, instead of keeping you in the role of a vulnerable child. I hope that makes sense.
(((((pinkeye)))))
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 11:59:28
In reply to Re: How do I forgive » pinkeye, posted by shrinking violet on April 29, 2005, at 18:46:21
Thanks for your post SV. I know you are going through a tough time yourself.
I get what you are saying. For the most part, I have forgiven my dad for everything. I think it is important to not hold any grudge towards any person - for ourselves, even if it is not for the other person.
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 12:02:07
In reply to Re: How do I forgive **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on April 29, 2005, at 22:32:11
Thanks Susan. I have been trying to confront my dad for several years little bit about all that happened. And he is a good man, so he has tried to apologize - atleast lightly. I haven't told him everything, only little bit here and there.. and he still thinks he was the perfect father in the whole world and I was the perfect daughter. I wonder how he was so delusional, missed out how much hurting I was - he completely was oblivious to it, and my mom was too. I don't know how I manged to never show them any of what I was feeling. I guess, I was really scared of my dad.
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 12:04:02
In reply to Re: How do I forgive » pinkeye, posted by Poet on April 30, 2005, at 2:57:33
Thanks Poet. That was the hard part.. that I believed everything my dad said and did and I thought I deserved to die. I didn't refuse or protest. I just cried and did whatever he asked me to do. I thought I deserved it. And I remember my mother being there, and she didn't protest either. She could have shouted at the top of her voice or tried to run to the street and get help..but I wonder why she didn't do it. I remember her crying, but I don't remember her doing anything about it.
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 12:07:58
In reply to Re: How do I forgive » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 1, 2005, at 7:33:32
Tamar, thanks for the post. That makes sense.
I am beginnning to think I am at the end of all the venting that I need to do, and whether I am able to forgive my dad or not, I am ready to make peace.
But my therapist keeps insisting, that it is too soon for me to make peace. That I need to allow myself to feel angry towards my dad. In fact she even tries to kind of flame my anger more than what I express in the sessions. She says there is lot of hidden anger and hurt, and unless I experience it, it will be suppressed and will be harming my body. But I really don't feel the anger though. I feel like being defensive on my dad for the most part, and she thinks I am wrong. She things, I was the victim, and I was kind of abused, that I have all the patterns of a child who was abused emotionally. She keeps repeating that I am a victim even though I try to tell her that my father loves me a lot, and never meant to hurt me really. She wants me to feel more anger than I am feeling. And I am not capable of feeling more anger.
Posted by Tamar on May 1, 2005, at 14:00:30
In reply to Re: How do I forgive » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 12:07:58
It’s natural to want to defend your dad, because you love him and he loves you. But despite his love for you, he hurt you. So in a way you were victimised, I think. Even if he never really meant to hurt you, you were still hurt.My dad was quite violent towards me, especially when I was a teenager. He thought it was OK because fathers are supposed to discipline their children. I suppose he was right, but he went too far: it was too violent. I know he didn’t intend to harm me, but what he did caused harm (for example it affected my performance at school because I was so stressed). I was very angry for some time, but I made my peace with it a few years ago, though even now I occasionally feel a bit angry about it. But now it’s possible for me to be angry at his actions without hating him.
Maybe there are losses in your life that are directly related to your dad’s abuse, and maybe you need to grieve for them. Anger is part of that grief. Does grief make more sense to you than anger?
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 14:59:15
In reply to Re: How do I forgive » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 1, 2005, at 14:00:30
That makes lot of sense. To be angry at his actions without hating him. I guess I never understood the difference so far. That is why I kind of kept on trying to defend him.
And it also makes sense about the grieving - rather than the anger. That is an easier emotion for me to feel.
Lots of times, we are hurt the most - not by life and other circumstances, but by the people who are closest to us. It is funny thing about life, that those who are supposed to care and protect us the most, end up hurting us the most without even realizing it. That is what your dad has done for you also.. and that is what my dad did to me too. I simply would have grown up perfectly well, if he didn't go that extra mile and tried to do things for me - make me learn by punishing etc.
Posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 17:06:46
In reply to Re: How do I forgive **Trigger** » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 12:02:07
about my own dad, pinkeye, is that we won't have a relationship at all, ever, unless he understands where he needs to change. And he has to be open to do that. He isn't.
Posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 17:31:07
In reply to The Thing I think I'm beginning to Understand, posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 17:06:46
But that strategy won't work for me I think.
I have come to accept the fact that my father is not going to change much. He is about 58, and it is hard for him to chnage hereafer.
So I am goign to learn to just discount what he is saying, what he believes in. And now I am realizing he is wrong about a lot of things. I can't make him right in everything, but I do want a relationship with my dad, and I love him so very much. I don't want to not have a relationship with him. That will kill me.
I am going to follow Tamar's advice above - to let myself be angry at his actions, without being angry at him
Posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 13:11:13
In reply to Re: The Thing I think I'm beginning to Understand » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on May 1, 2005, at 17:31:07
Wow. I'm so happy, to be able to say that not having a relationship with my own dad, won't kill me. Not in the least. Not at all. It will be sad, but then, it's been a sad relationship from the day I was conceived. Nothing is new. But I can be strong in my self-respect and self-caring, so I can give him some of that too, some of that will naturally rub off on him. He just can't have it, it's not his possession to keep, anymore, and do what he likes with.
Posted by tom_traubert on May 3, 2005, at 0:45:37
In reply to How do I forgive, posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 18:33:09
Do Not Forgive That Action.
You know, some things are unforgivable damnit, and that's the way it is.
But you can Understand, and that's the progress.
I'd like to suggest something that has helped me in the past in terms of releasing anger: unsent letters.
The idea is that you sit down and write a letter that youknow you will never send or show to the person you are addressing. this is very important: you can NEVER show the letter to anyone, for 2 reasons: 1:if you think someone else might see it, you'll hold back 2:if someone else sees it, they will be unnecessarily hurt.The whole idea is to just let loose and curse and hate and write every exaggerated vile thought that comes to mind--EVEN IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT--the point is not for logic, it is a platform for anger. Say the worst things, let it flow. It can be quite powerful. It's weird at first, you feel silly, as if someone's looking over your shoulder, but if you start a blank page with "Dear Dad," and start writiing, you'll be amazed how much comes out. Don't be scared of the anger either, it's just words, and you tear it up after youre done. don't judge what you write, just write, let anger come out. Often times, you'll read back over and realize that you really don't feel these things to this degree, but it was good to let out what the anger was feeling. (I hope that makes sense)
I hope this is something that might help you. When I first did it, I wrote out 6 pages worth of pure black hellfire. It's good, it's cathartic, it's safe, and it's really actually a simple idea.
hope this helps,
tt
Posted by pinkeye on May 3, 2005, at 14:21:52
In reply to Re: How do I forgive, posted by tom_traubert on May 3, 2005, at 0:45:37
Thanks. I have never really done that w.r.t my father. I will try that.
My dad is a very good man. And I don't think I can hold it up against him.
Posted by tom_traubert on May 5, 2005, at 21:10:09
In reply to Re: How do I forgive » tom_traubert, posted by pinkeye on May 3, 2005, at 14:21:52
you are not "holding anything up against him", you are expressing anger at his actions. There is a crucial difference. What he did is unforgivable--you are entitled to be enraged at his ACTION.
I'm guessing that when you feel anger toward him, you start to feel guilty because you think of all the things he's done for you and how he is a good person. Throw the guilt nonsense out. Get angry at how someone makes you feel--it doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you an ungrateful child, it releases anger and frustrated feelings that are pure poison. If I sound preachy, I'm sorry, but I labored for years under the bulls--t of feeling guilty for having anger toward others. I always felt it was my fault, like "who am I to be angry?" which makes it twice as worse.
You can get mad at people, situations, actions. It is permitted. Don't feel guilty about it.
tt
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 13:54:06
In reply to Re: How do I forgive, posted by tom_traubert on May 5, 2005, at 21:10:09
:-) I liked what you have said.
Thanks. You know, I am learning so much stuff from this board.. and am getting all these advices that I would never have got from anywhere else.
This is the end of the thread.
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