![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 17:46:58
Hi everyone,
I apologize for not responding to posts much lately; it's difficult to know what to say sometimes, especially reading so many posts by babblers who miss their old Ts. It's a topic that is fast becoming a personal one for me as well, and reading about it makes it worse.
I'm not sure where I left off in terms of my current T since I haven't posted here in a while, but I just saw her again this week after having about three weeks off from her. Our last session together was pretty special, I think. I gave her a picture I painted (which she promptly hung in her office) and I read her a story which sort of related to our relationship and her role as a T, and I read her a short letter I wrote her about what she has given me in terms of our relationship. She said this week that that last session was very "healing" for her as a T, and it will always be a special session for her, and that she feels that something shifted and changed for me and maybe our relationship during that last session. So the past few weeks I was on winter break from grad school and she took a vacation, and in the interim I was forced to complete a partial hospital program for EDs before I could return to classes this semester. I managed to get through it, somehow. My T called me on New Years' to ask how things were going, and the week after I was doing surprisingly well (what some Prozac and a few forced meals can do for a person, eh?)so I emailed her and told her she didn't have to call me because I was okay and to enjoy the rest of her time.
I was feeling okay until I saw her this week. Not great by any means, but better than I was before the break. Seeing her again saddened me though. I'm not exactly sure why. I think it's because she is now pushing my seeing a new T for when I leave her (I have to leave my current T when I graduate this Spring). I feel caught, though, because honestly I don't want a new T. Yes, I am going to miss my current one terribly, but I knew this relationship with her was temporary when I started (although I hadn't expected to be seeing her for almost two years now!) and if I really wanted to continue doing this work for me, then I would just take a deep breath and see the new T my current T recommends. However, I don't want to continue this work anymore. I really think I'm not cut out for therapy, and it angers and frustrates me more than I can say (and I'm not quite sure I have all that much faith in it either). And I feel like it's just making things worse rather than fixing anything. Besides, therapy depends on talking which is something I'm not at all good at.
So last session my T brought it up, said that she is practially "on her knees" begging me to allow her to put this into place for me. She said she could show me tears, that she was holding them back, that's how strongly she feels about it. I don't want to hurt her, but I'm not going to set up an appt with someone I never intend to see just to make my T happy, either (is that horrible?). And I'm so so sad and hurt about leaving her. I don't think she realizes how devastating this is going to be for me. And it isn't about losing my T....sure, it stinks I can't work with her anymore after all this time, but I don't want to lose her as a person in my life. I want more than anything for her to say that she wants to keep seeing me in a different way (meet for coffee once a month, etc) but I know that'll never happen. It doesn't even feel like she is my T anymore. It feels like we've crossed some line...it's hard to explain, but I don't even view her as my T anymore. Part of me wants to just stop seeing her now, tell her that I can't see her as a T because I think we're too close and that I'd love to have a different relationship with her but that's up to her and I should find a new T. But I can't chance that I'll totally lose her that way, especially since I only have a few months left with her anyway.
*sigh* I'm sorry, I know this is all over the place. I wish I could see into the future so I could prepare myself, or maybe change what might happen. :-(
Thanks for reading. A hug/acknowledgement of some kind might be nice. I'm feeling very alone/invisible these days.
Peace,
sv
Posted by mair on January 20, 2005, at 18:08:26
In reply to i don't want a new T, posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 17:46:58
(((((SV))))))
I want to say more, but for now I just have a question: What would you be feeling about therapy if you weren't coming off this long break and if you didn't have to lose your T in a few months?
Sometimes I want to quit therapy not because I think it's making me worse or that I don't need it or that I'd be better off without it, but just because I don't really see myself getting over some invisible hump and I just want to avoid the pain of T.
How much of this really is being angry, not necessarily at your T, but even just being angry about your situation and thinking that if you can't have T with her, you just don't want therapy?
I can see how so much of what has been posted here lately would be triggering.
Mair
Posted by lonelygal2 on January 20, 2005, at 18:36:48
In reply to i don't want a new T, posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 17:46:58
awww sv. i know you are having such a difficult time with this. it sucks a whole lot i know.
i had a talk with an old pdoc today and i just kept crying that i didn't want to be in therapy for forever and have to keep changing therapists and trusting people and that it wasn't fair. and she just basically acknowledged that yeah, it does suck and that therapy is very hard, but telling me that i was worth it to try to do all the hard work for.
i know that you dont' want to lose your therapist and i know that you keep saying that you want to be done with therapy too, but maybe it would be nice to have her help you to start a relationship with someone new so that you would have someone to turn to just in case you need her in the future. can you start a just-in-case sort of therapy scenario, so that someone is there as part of a fall back plan? i'm also wondering if the 3 of you could meet all together- new t, old t, and you- to sort of help you to feel more comfortable? before i decided to move and do this internship my old t had offered to do this and my immediate reaction was you're getting rid of me, but thinking about it now it seems like that would have been helpful so that you wouldn't have to meet the new person alone.
i dunno, regardless, i'm sorry you are feeling so badly. and please do tell your t all that you are feeling. why you dont' want to continue with t, or start a new relationship with someone else. i know that you've told me several times that you think doing these things would make it easier for her and that that wasn't fair- have you told her you felt that way? it's totally understandable...
well, take care and hopefully i'll see you on AIM.
Posted by annierose on January 20, 2005, at 18:37:46
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » shrinking violet, posted by mair on January 20, 2005, at 18:08:26
SV-
Could you show her your post? It is full of powerful emotions. I do think you will miss her as your T. And she is desperately trying to help build a bridge for you to cross with her. She's not saying "Good-bye" and slamming the door. Your T is being supportive and providing a transition.It's so hard. I've been there. Far better to have a transition in place, than to be left in the cold. Try to consider all your options.
Posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 19:06:27
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » shrinking violet, posted by mair on January 20, 2005, at 18:08:26
Hi Mair, thanks for your response.
>> I want to say more, but for now I just have a question: What would you be feeling about therapy if you weren't coming off this long break and if you didn't have to lose your T in a few months?--Good question. I've been asking myself the same thing. If this is just a "hump" then it's been quite a long one and I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. I don't feel like my T and I do much actual therapy, either. True, maybe I don't allow that to happen, either. I don't know, I feel like I wasn't this suicidal/depressed/ED before I started. And I know T is supposed to make things worse, but I don't feel like I'm working through anything. It feels more like crawling through broken glass (and I think I swallowed some along the way). I just need a break, at least, I think. I know I probably need some form of therapy, but if nothing else the program showed me that figuring out how to eat regularly and take my meds and have some social contacts can make me feel a lot better a lot quicker than almost over a year of therapy could.
>> How much of this really is being angry, not necessarily at your T, but even just being angry about your situation and thinking that if you can't have T with her, you just don't want therapy?--Again, I'm trying to figure this out because I don't want to just react to the situation if I don't have any valid reasons. I'm not totally sure, but I really do think that I could and would see another T if I really wanted to continue this sort of work for myself. I am sad over losing my T, but again it's more about never seeing her again as a person and not so much losing someone who I meet once a week to process stuff with. So I think I can separate the two. I'm not totally sure, though, to be honest. I can't figure myself out sometimes (heck, most times!).
Thanks,
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 19:11:30
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » shrinking violet, posted by lonelygal2 on January 20, 2005, at 18:36:48
Thank you LG.
>> i know that you dont' want to lose your therapist and i know that you keep saying that you want to be done with therapy too, but maybe it would be nice to have her help you to start a relationship with someone new so that you would have someone to turn to just in case you need her in the future. can you start a just-in-case sort of therapy scenario, so that someone is there as part of a fall back plan? i'm also wondering if the 3 of you could meet all together- new t, old t, and you- to sort of help you to feel more comfortable?
--I know, I don't want to react irrationally and then regret it later. It's just hard. I don't want to pretend I have any intention of seeing a new T when I don't. Besides, I'd have her name and stuff so I could always contact her later. I don't want to upset my T either...this is obviously important to her, but I don't know if I can do it for her knowing my heart isn't in it. And yes, my T has offered to go to my first session with the new T, but I think that would be SO hard for me, so I don't think I'd want that. I don't know what I want, I just know what I don't want. :-(
>> and please do tell your t all that you are feeling. why you dont' want to continue with t, or start a new relationship with someone else. i know that you've told me several times that you think doing these things would make it easier for her and that that wasn't fair- have you told her you felt that way? it's totally understandable...--No, I haven't. I feel like I can't express to her how upset I am over losing her and how/why I don't want to see anyone else. Next week, if I do see her (I'm seriously thinking of just not going. I blew off my nutritionist appt today too), I'm going to have to tell her I don't want to discuss this topic anymore, at least not right now. I can't go there every week if it's going to make me this upset and hurt this much afterwards. I don't know. I'm afraid of her reactions.
Thanks.
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 19:14:20
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T, posted by annierose on January 20, 2005, at 18:37:46
Hi annierose,
>> Could you show her your post? It is full of powerful emotions. I do think you will miss her as your T. And she is desperately trying to help build a bridge for you to cross with her. She's not saying "Good-bye" and slamming the door. Your T is being supportive and providing a transition.
--I know, she is, and she's sweet to do so. And yes, I will miss her as my T b/c she has some awesome qualities, but at the same time I do think I can separate her as my T from someone who means more to me personally. As much as I'd miss her as my T, I would trust any recommendation she would make for me in terms of a new T and I know she's put me in good hands. I just don't think I want therapy anymore. But I don't want to lose her as a person either.
Sorry if I'm not making much sense. I'm waffling.
Thanks for your thoughts.
SV
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2005, at 19:26:03
In reply to i don't want a new T, posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 17:46:58
((((( SV )))))) I can just feel your pain in your post and am so sad for you I am near tears. I do hope you go to see the new T but I DO understand why you feel the way you do.....HUGS
Posted by LG04 on January 20, 2005, at 19:57:13
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » shrinking violet, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2005, at 19:26:03
Hi SV,
It seems like your T is putting a lot of pressure on you to see a new T. I think you need to be true to yourself. It makes sense to me what you said about your inpatient program teaching you about meds, food intake, social contacts, etc., and how much that helped you.I tried to see a new T recently and it just made me realize that I am simply not ready to be in therapy again. I had/have an intense, close relationship with my former therapist and I just am not ready to start over in a new relationship. I also just don't feel like delving into things right now. I am starting a new job and I want to put my energy into that. I also am not married and I want to put more energy into trying to meet people. I guess what I am saying is that I am wanting to focus on my current life and not my past right now (i've been in therapy for 12 years and it's the first time i've felt this way).
Therapy takes a lot of emotional energy and I'm just not up for it right now. That might change at any time. But for now, that's how I am feeling. My depression and anxiety are under control and there's no pressing reason for me to go to therapy. So I am taking a break.
I am telling you this b/c i relate to your situation in so many ways. (also how you feel about leaving your therapist and missing her as a person) And I understand not wanting to see a new therapist b/c i am in the same place. I think you have to trust yourself and do what feels right for you.
It's also hard to go from one therapist straight to another. I think there is a certain amount of grieving involved in leaving a therapist (or a whole heck of a lot of grieving) and that takes time.
maybe at some point you'll decide to see a new therapist to help you "get over" missing your old therapist; or maybe not; or maybe you'll want to see a new one for other reasons. i don't hear you saying you never want to be in therapy again the rest of your life. i hear you saying that you don't want to do it right now. and that's totally okay. as you've said here many times, your therapist has a pattern of being "overinvolved" in your life. just remember, it's your life, and you have every right to do what feels best for you.
hang in there,
LG04
Posted by crushedout on January 20, 2005, at 20:23:16
In reply to i don't want a new T, posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 17:46:58
Sheez, SV, I feel like I can relate so much to what you're going through. Especially the part about wanting her in your life but feeling like you've crossed the line of being therapist/patient. I've thought a lot recently about writing to my former T (for me, the difference is I've already started with a new T, even though there are lots of times I don't think it's worth it and that I should just quit) and telling her that I want her in my life on some kind of coffee level :), but I don't know whether that's possible and just leaving it to her to decide.
I'm not saying this well. I'm very distracted. But I feel like I can understand what you might be going through.
It occurs to me (and I could be completely off-base -- don't hesitate to tell me if I am) that you might be angry at your T and/or feel abandoned, even though on a rational level you realize it's not her fault that you guys have to stop therapy. And that (a) that might be part of what's making you want to end early and (b) that might be part of what's making you want to give up on therapy entirely. Since it's what she desperately wants you to do (i.e., continue), refusing to do so may on some level be an expression of anger or disappointment with her. Like I said, this could be way off.
In any case, I really feel for you.
Posted by Shortelise on January 20, 2005, at 23:22:27
In reply to i don't want a new T, posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 17:46:58
((((((shrinking violet)))))))
ShortE
Posted by Poet on January 20, 2005, at 23:47:32
In reply to i don't want a new T, posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 17:46:58
Hi shrinking violet,
You aren't invisible. You aren't alone.
I wish I could really help you with your dilema whether to see the new T or not, but I can sympathize.
I know it would be hard for me to see a new T. I still barely talk to the current one.
(((((SV)))))))
Poet
Posted by shrinking violet on January 21, 2005, at 18:58:21
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » shrinking violet, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2005, at 19:26:03
--Thank you Fallen, that was very sweet of you to say. HUGS
> ((((( SV )))))) I can just feel your pain in your post and am so sad for you I am near tears. I do hope you go to see the new T but I DO understand why you feel the way you do.....HUGS
Posted by shrinking violet on January 21, 2005, at 19:02:07
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » shrinking violet, posted by crushedout on January 20, 2005, at 20:23:16
Hi crushed,
I've often felt that our situations with our T's are similar, the only difference being there is a sexual element to your relationship with your T where there isn't one in mine. But the ways our T's react to us seems fairly similar, as does our reactions to what they do/say. I still wonder if it's her problem as a T or my problem as a client.
>> It occurs to me (and I could be completely off-base -- don't hesitate to tell me if I am) that you might be angry at your T and/or feel abandoned, even though on a rational level you realize it's not her fault that you guys have to stop therapy. And that (a) that might be part of what's making you want to end early and (b) that might be part of what's making you want to give up on therapy entirely. Since it's what she desperately wants you to do (i.e., continue), refusing to do so may on some level be an expression of anger or disappointment with her. Like I said, this could be way off.--No, that's a great insight and you're probably right on some level (if not all levels). I just hate it when I get this upset and depressed and I don't know why. How can I expect my T to figure me out when I can't figure myself out? If I ever get the courage to go back to see her again (see my updated response) I'll definitely use your theories. Thank you.
Take care, and you hang in there too!
SV
Posted by shrinking violet on January 21, 2005, at 19:02:44
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T, posted by Shortelise on January 20, 2005, at 23:22:27
aww {{{{SshortE}}}} Thank you, that was very sweet.
> ((((((shrinking violet)))))))
>
> ShortE
Posted by shrinking violet on January 21, 2005, at 19:03:16
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » shrinking violet, posted by Poet on January 20, 2005, at 23:47:32
{{{{Poet}}}}
Thank you, I appreciate your response.
Take care,
SV
> Hi shrinking violet,
>
> You aren't invisible. You aren't alone.
>
> I wish I could really help you with your dilema whether to see the new T or not, but I can sympathize.
>
> I know it would be hard for me to see a new T. I still barely talk to the current one.
>
> (((((SV)))))))
>
> Poet
>
>
>
Posted by shrinking violet on January 21, 2005, at 19:14:15
In reply to i don't want a new T, posted by shrinking violet on January 20, 2005, at 17:46:58
I do what I always do when something about a session upsets me: I either cancel the next session or I quit for good.
Yesterday I blew off my nutritionist appt. I'm not clear why, but after Tuesday's session any motivation I had to at least attempt to eat in the event it was helping my mood went out the window, so I figure why waste my nut's time. I did email her on Tue, telling her I was having a hard time and was thinking of skipping my appt, but apparently my not showing up still caused some concern. She left a message for me last night and told me to email her and she also gave me her home number and asked me to leave a message to let her know I was ok. I did neither. I'm not sure why; that's usually not like me. So this morning my T calls and left a message for me, saying she's concerned and she's looking for me and to please call her. I didn't. So then she calls my work looking for me (I hadn't gotten there yet, I was still home) and then she calls my sister and leaves a message on her phone. So my sis calls me and says my T is worried, looking for me. I didn't want to involve my sister so I picked up the phone, said that they were just overreacting to a missed nutritionist appt yesterday and I had my sis call my T back to tell her I was at least alive. Then it was quiet the rest of the day...no emails or calls from my T to ask what's going on. Nothing. Later this afternoon I felt badly about worrying them, so I emailed my nut and T and apologized and just told them I need "some space" and I told my T I wouldn't be there next Tue. Neither of them emailed or called, which I guess shouldn't surprise me since the "space" thing probably solidified that I wanted to be left alone. But I don't, not at all; being left alone is actually the opposite of what I want / need right now. :-( In fact, I think it's my problem.
I don't know why I do this....Instead of going to T and telling her why a session upset me, or at least try to figure it out *with* her, I run from it and don't say anything. Part of me wants to go in her office and drop to my knees and sob and ask her WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH ME and WHY CAN'T SHE FIX IT after almost TWO YEARS and I DON'T WANT HER TO LEAVE ME. But I couldn't say any of that. Ever. It just wouldn't come out. But it wants to so desperately. It's stuck in my throat, it sits in my stomach, it crawls in my chest....but there is stays.
I don't know what to do. :-(
Thanks for listening.
SV
Posted by annierose on January 21, 2005, at 20:40:46
In reply to update -- i always do/say the opposite, posted by shrinking violet on January 21, 2005, at 19:14:15
SV-
I have one idea for your pain. Call your T and reschedule your appointment. I remember that feeling from years ago, trying to run away from the pain. But it's in there, whether you want it to be or not. A part of you wanted their concern, and they were. They care and want to help you. Please try to go so they can see you through this rough patch. It may be a scary feeling for you, someone who is really there for you, caring, wanting to help. Try to let them in.
I know it's hard.
Annierose
Posted by Daisym on January 21, 2005, at 20:51:44
In reply to Re: One thing you can do ..., posted by annierose on January 21, 2005, at 20:40:46
SV,
Copy over the last part of your post and email it to your therapist. It is so poignant and full of pain...of course you need to be taken care of! I tell my therapist all the time that even as I push him away and distance myself I don't really want him to go away or let me quit. We have developed a kind of ritual around this actually...and it always ends with him saying, "I'm not going anyway and I'm not letting you go either."
Please, try to force yourself to be honest, as much as you can. IT IS SO WORTH IT.
I feel for you...
Daisy
Posted by lonelygal2 on January 22, 2005, at 1:29:36
In reply to update -- i always do/say the opposite, posted by shrinking violet on January 21, 2005, at 19:14:15
aww sv. call and tell your t how you are really feeling. she cares and is there waiting to receive you.
Posted by terrics on January 25, 2005, at 18:56:15
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » shrinking violet, posted by crushedout on January 20, 2005, at 20:23:16
Hi Crushed, It would probably not be bad to ask her if she would like to go out for coffee the worst she can say is no. If she is a real professional she will probably say no. I would respect her for that..She could lose her license. The problem however is that you may get hurt again. I had worked with my T when she was a SW in the same hosp where i was a nurse. So after I went to her for therapy which lasted 2 yrs. she asked me out for lunch. Now we go out on a regular basis. I 'love' her and am glad she is my friend. These are unusal circumstances though. Terrics
Posted by shrinking violet on January 26, 2005, at 17:03:26
In reply to Re: One thing you can do ..., posted by annierose on January 21, 2005, at 20:40:46
Thanks Annierose. Sorry for taking so long to post a thanks. :-)
I did email her earlier this week asking to reschedule for this week. She emailed back, a curt note, asking me to call the front desk to see what she has available. Which hurt me, b/c I already feel like she's changing things and becoming more clinical and removed. So I decided not to call, at least not this week. But today I had sort of a meltdown again and I have SO much going on emotionally right now and I need to tell someone or I'll go crazy. I just dont know if I can trust her, given that she works for the University (past experience tells me I can't, even though it isn't her fault). So today, during a crying jag, I decided to ask for an appt this week. But of course the office was closed but I left a message asking for an appt this Friday if there are any, so we'll see. So now I'm working on writing everything down and I'll bring it with me and decide there whether I can trust her with it.
Thanks for your response. I just wish I knew what was wrong with me and how to fix it. :-(
SV
> SV-
> I have one idea for your pain. Call your T and reschedule your appointment. I remember that feeling from years ago, trying to run away from the pain. But it's in there, whether you want it to be or not. A part of you wanted their concern, and they were. They care and want to help you. Please try to go so they can see you through this rough patch. It may be a scary feeling for you, someone who is really there for you, caring, wanting to help. Try to let them in.
> I know it's hard.
> Annierose
Posted by shrinking violet on January 26, 2005, at 17:05:28
In reply to Re: One thing you can do ..., posted by Daisym on January 21, 2005, at 20:51:44
Daisy, thank you for your response. Well, I've learned my lesson about giving her too much in writing. ButI am in the process of trying to write everything that's bothering me right now, because it does hurt a lot and I need to put it somewhere. I'll decide later whether I can share it with her.
Thank you,
SV
> SV,
>
> Copy over the last part of your post and email it to your therapist. It is so poignant and full of pain...of course you need to be taken care of! I tell my therapist all the time that even as I push him away and distance myself I don't really want him to go away or let me quit. We have developed a kind of ritual around this actually...and it always ends with him saying, "I'm not going anyway and I'm not letting you go either."
>
> Please, try to force yourself to be honest, as much as you can. IT IS SO WORTH IT.
>
> I feel for you...
> Daisy
Posted by shrinking violet on January 26, 2005, at 17:06:16
In reply to Re: update -- i always do/say the opposite, posted by lonelygal2 on January 22, 2005, at 1:29:36
That was sweet, thank you LG.
> aww sv. call and tell your t how you are really feeling. she cares and is there waiting to receive you.
>
Posted by shrinking violet on January 26, 2005, at 17:08:48
In reply to Re: i don't want a new T » crushedout, posted by terrics on January 25, 2005, at 18:56:15
Hi Terrics....I'm assuming you addressed your reponse to Crushed by accident :-)
No, I'd never ask her to meet me in any kind of personal way, even after we terminated. I know that would never happen. She said I could write to her, and I should be grateful she's even allowing that. It just hurts, that's all. I'm glad it worked out for you and your ex T.
Take care.
SV
> Hi Crushed, It would probably not be bad to ask her if she would like to go out for coffee the worst she can say is no. If she is a real professional she will probably say no. I would respect her for that..She could lose her license. The problem however is that you may get hurt again. I had worked with my T when she was a SW in the same hosp where i was a nurse. So after I went to her for therapy which lasted 2 yrs. she asked me out for lunch. Now we go out on a regular basis. I 'love' her and am glad she is my friend. These are unusal circumstances though. Terrics
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