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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on January 11, 2005, at 10:12:06
...or maybe I hate the time and space in between therapy. I hate thinking of time passing as getting through from one session to another. I hate how weak I feel and unable to separate those past feelings from the present. I hate slipping back into the black hole and having no way to stop it. I guess like the country song says, "Tonight I hate everything."
I was thinking about the thread above that mentioned the intensity of sessions and the aftermath. I don't think my therapist in anyway underestimates the toll sessions take on me. He is really, really aware of how hard things are afterward, and often asks, "What will you do for the next few hours?" Usually I have a plan that includes solitude and Starbucks. He thinks this is OK.
But things have been so rough that I'm not sleeping again so today we had another serious discussion about medications. He gave me a referral to a pdoc. I asked for it...in fact, I left a message at 1am last Thursday telling him not to let me back out because I couldn't face another night like this one. He gave me some names today and went over what the appointment was likely to look like. We even practiced how much I needed to say and how to handle questions I didn't want to answer: "I'm dealing with that in therapy." He did say he wanted me to tell her about the csa -- but not too many details. I kept nodding my head and asking the right questions. And then I burst into tears and said it felt like I was being sent away. I'm not sure whether that was little daisy being afraid she was being silenced or me, afraid he was sending me to another therapist so he could back away slowly. I guess it was both.
The thing is, I really don't know why it is so hard right now. Yes, there are hard subjects to talk about, but they aren't new news. Yes, hubby is sick and cranky again. But we've gone through this before. I feel like I don't know what to work on, and I don't really even know what I want from therapy or my therapist right now. I really hate not having a plan or a road map!
Somehow, even though I can't tell him what I want exactly, my therapist seems to keep finding the right things to say. Last Friday I was feeling so very alone. But when I said this, he reminded me that he was with me, deep inside, keeping me safe. He actually said he was feeling very protective of me and offered to come over when those 1am demons are up and bring his baseball bat. It startled me some to hear him say that (I don't think anyone has ever been protective of me) but I loved it too. I held onto that all weekend. And I told him that today, even though I feel bad to know that he worries.
I guess one of the biggest struggles is not knowing why certain things upset me so much. This whole thing about my friend's daughter seeing a therapist at the same office keeps flaring up for me and I feel ridiculous. We were trying to work out a time tomorrow but the only time he had that worked for me was the same time that "Kate" has. So I said no, I just couldn't do it and left with a Wed appointment instead. I went down to my car, called the pdoc he recommended and left a message. Then I sat there and sobbed for 15 minutes. I felt so lost and alone. I had to call a new person and someone had already taken my space with my therapist too. (I know, this isn't true. MY therapist isn't Kate's therapist, it is just a shared waiting room! But still, I really feel like I now have to make compromises about when I can go to see him. And I hate that!)
He called about 9pm tonight, said he was thinking about it and I could come at quarter after the hour so I would miss her all together. Now I feel bad that he adjusting his schedule for me. But of course, now I'm going. I just don't know what I need to talk about.
I hate this...
Posted by Speaker on January 11, 2005, at 12:20:28
In reply to I hate therapy. (Longish), posted by Daisym on January 11, 2005, at 10:12:06
Daisy,
I know I hate it when I can't figure out where my feelings are coming from. I'm glad you have your therapist. Don't underestimate the emotions that come with a sick husband no matter how "use to it" we think we are. I know you have a lot of other things going on along with all of that. You don't have to have the game plan...that's what we pay the therapist for. I just want you to know I'm talking to myself just as much as to you. I'm glad you have an appt. today! Keep me posted.
Marie
Posted by annierose on January 11, 2005, at 13:55:53
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish), posted by Speaker on January 11, 2005, at 12:20:28
I like what Speaker said, most of us are talking to ourselves as much as you are, with our T's at our sides helping us with the conversation. Your verbalizing this inner struggle is such a comfort to me, knowing that others are also going through this. I don't seem to be able to put my thoughts into words like you and so many others here.
You know, we are all jealous (in a good way) of your T's kindness. He just says all the right things. It's scary how good it feels to be with them sometimes, compared to real life. But it's part of the process, one that I just don't quite understand.
I know you are scared of the meds. I think you need to treat your pain just as you would if you had a throat infection. My daughter is on a mild med and the difference in her happiness level is dramatic (a miracle really). And it's not a permanent decision. If it's not helping, you can change course. My daughter's T explained it as vital to helping her therapy along, and it has, as well as improve the quality of her life, her friendships, everything. Sending good thoughts your way (and hoping for a good nights sleep too).
Annierose
Posted by Shortelise on January 11, 2005, at 14:37:29
In reply to I hate therapy. (Longish), posted by Daisym on January 11, 2005, at 10:12:06
You sound tired to me.
ShortE
Posted by Aphrodite on January 11, 2005, at 18:11:11
In reply to I hate therapy. (Longish), posted by Daisym on January 11, 2005, at 10:12:06
Even though secure attachment is one of the main goals in work like yours and mine, it's precarious because all the eggs are in one basket. I too was very hesitant about the pdoc (still haven't found a good one), but in the end, I reframed it as part of a larger plan of having more support. I think the work is so hard that I need more team members. So, when things go wrong, I can rely on more than one professional who can help. I always thought, "What in the world would I do if a piano fell on my T's head in the middle of all of this?!?" So, I've let my PCP in, still working on a pdoc, and I'm doing other things like yoga classes and meditation classes to work through the issues. I'm trying everything. Most of the time, I feel intensely dependent on my T. In some ways, I didn't want to branch out because even with all the bad things that come with my resistance of dependency, it also at times gave me great comfort and solace and connection. I thought I would lose that. Now that I am doing more things, I feel like I can manage longer between sessions, and I think about the things my meditation teacher says instead of just my T, I practice my yoga which is supposed to be releasing for PTSD (seems to be for me), and I still have some meds left over that greatly reduce my anxiety that makes the trauma work easier. So, please don't feel like it's one or the other. It may, in the end, make therapy much more tolerable. At least it has for me, but things could always change. . . Is your T going to communicate with the pdoc? Could he write a summary and send it to the pdoc in advance? Mine did this, and it was very relieving although I had bad experiences unrelated to it. I hope yours is a good match on the first visit.
I know it's all very confusing and scary. I hope you have a soft landing from it all.
Posted by Dinah on January 11, 2005, at 19:25:56
In reply to I hate therapy. (Longish), posted by Daisym on January 11, 2005, at 10:12:06
He wouldn't have offered if he wasn't willing.
Most meds truly aren't that bad. And if they don't work out, you can quit them. They're a safety net. They absolutely do not replace therapy. It won't even occur to your therapist that they can replace him. (Well, ok, a bit of Risperdal has replaced a few emergency phone calls I guess. But my therapist is awful on the phone. I want to replace them.) They just keep you from falling all the way down between sessions.
Check out your pdoc and make sure he or she is on the same page with you meds-wise. Mine knows and cooperates with the fact that I prefer minimal meds. The pdoc from heck didn't. I *know* your therapist has the experience and perspicacity to help you monitor how you're doing along the way.
It's not so bad. Really.
(And I know you don't want to share your therapist, so I won't ask. But I think we all want him to hold a seminar that all *our* therapists can attend.)
Posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:36:57
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish), posted by Speaker on January 11, 2005, at 12:20:28
Marie,
I know you know...it just feels like it is taking forever. I want to have a time line, for him and for me. We got more bad news on Monday night, which means more eye surgery. I think we've both had enough!I happened to read the intro about the Ego State book (discussed above) and there was a whole thing about getting well in a "relatively short" period of time. What does that mean??!! I feel like I need to work harder to get these parts and pieces integrated but I don't know how and I don't know what else to do to get better faster.
It just hurts sometimes so much that I think I can't stand it. I sat in my therapist's office today and told him about the dark place in my soul that is too deep and raw for tears, it lives under or beyond those emotions. It is the place that you should only visit for seconds at a time and yet I seem stuck there for days and weeks. This is the place where you can't look at the bright side or find any silver lining. The stark reality of all the bad stuff glares there, not softened and not excused. My therapist said "you are enduring a living hell. Truly. Reliving all of this and coping with the day to day stressors is hellish." And we sat for awhile. I was glad he didn't want me to make it better for him or that he didn't believe how bad it can be some days and nights.
When I left he said, "I'm still holding the hope for us, until you are ready to have it back. I know you will be OK. But you might just have to save yourself and to do that you might have to let go of someone else."
That is just too stark a reality for me right now.
Posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:44:13
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish), posted by annierose on January 11, 2005, at 13:55:53
Thanks Annie, especially for sharing about your daughter. I'm glad she is doing well.
And thank you for saying my post helped in some small way. I worry that I write too much, too long or too negative. It just comes out that way sometimes.
I agree that my therapist is a keeper. He's made a few mistakes with me, and I usually come away from sessions exhausted but I'm glad I found him and I know I'm lucky to have so much support from him.
Posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:47:05
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » Daisym, posted by Shortelise on January 11, 2005, at 14:37:29
I am. I feel like a two year old who needs a nap but can't settle down enough to fall asleep. The bad part about it is that I have no patience AT ALL...I find myself plotting ways to stop my husband's coughing. And then i think I'm a horrible person.
Posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:55:10
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » Daisym, posted by Aphrodite on January 11, 2005, at 18:11:11
First, let me thank you for creating yet another thing to worry about. Piano's dropping from the sky...I never would have thought to worry about that!
I hear everything you are saying and you are right, having a good team to work with is important. I'm glad you've added in so many other supports. It is a very wise idea.
I decided today I must seem to have this enormous EGO because I act like i am the only one who has ever been scared or worried...and I'm upset with myself because I think I should be able to cope with all of this and do it well. Such an ego talking!
My therapist offered to talk with pdoc, but recognized that I wanted to make the initial contact. I have an appointment Thursday afternoon. I was surprised to get one so quickly. After that I will most likely let them talk. He asked me today if I knew what I wanted her to recommend. I told him I had been researching and had a list of questions. He laughed, talked about my need to research and said he was glad to see he wasn't the only person whose job I seemed to think I could do. (!)
I'll let you know what I think.
Posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:58:42
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » Daisym, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2005, at 19:25:56
Thank you for the support. Weird as this sounds, I worry that by cutting down the pain, I'll be cutting down the opportunities to talk about this stuff...and get it all out. Like I won't be able to access stuff because I'm numbed out. on the other hand, being numb would have some benefits too.
I'll see what I can do about that seminar. Can you get your therapist to Ca?
Posted by Skittles on January 12, 2005, at 1:03:42
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » Dinah, posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:58:42
If you can get your therapist to do a seminar, I WILL find a way to get mine to Ca. Even if I have to pay for her and her whole family to take a long vacation there. Even if I have to kidnap her and take her there by force. That'd be a felony or two, wouldn't it? That's ok by me, it would totally be worth it.
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2005, at 5:27:34
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » Dinah, posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:58:42
I agree with Skittles. My therapist looooves to travel. And maybe we can tag along so that we can meet each other. :))
And Daisy, you're giving the medications too much credit. Unless you have a doctor who'll overmedicate you, the pain doesn't go away. They're just not that good.
Making the pain bearable and the pit shallower won't stop you from working on anything. It'll make your work more productive.
Just be careful and be your own advocate and you'll be fine. Silly me! You have your therapist as your advocate. With him at your side, I'm sure you'll find a pdoc who will medicate you at the proper level. Isn't there something about an ideal amount of pain in the literature?
Posted by gardenergirl on January 12, 2005, at 11:17:49
In reply to Re: Seminar » daisym, posted by Skittles on January 12, 2005, at 1:03:42
What a great movie plot that would be! All of us dragging our T's across country... (and can I come, too? Gotta visit that new family member sometime this spring. Can we have the seminar in March?)
Daisy, I don't have much to offer right now. I'm wiped out. But I think you are doing what you can and what you need. I hope it helps you to process stuff here. I really learn a lot from hearing you be so open about your therapy process.
Good luck with your pdoc appt. I hope it goes smooth and that you find it helpful.
Sending you hugs...
gg
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2005, at 14:05:19
In reply to Re: Seminar » Skittles, posted by gardenergirl on January 12, 2005, at 11:17:49
The Psychology board is bailing on the PB birthday party so that we can all go to Daisy's neck of the woods so that our therapists can learn to be better therapists at the hands of a master and we can have fun gossiping about them after we all meet them. Or maybe having that long awaited contest. ;P
(Ooh, what fun that would be. Are our therapists really who we think they are or is transference at work. Mine really will have shiny shoes. I wonder if I dare tell him about this.)
Posted by meg7 on January 12, 2005, at 14:30:32
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » Dinah, posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:58:42
> Weird as this sounds, I worry that by cutting down the pain, I'll be cutting down the opportunities to talk about this stuff...and get it all out. Like I won't be able to access stuff because I'm numbed out. on the other hand, being numb would have some benefits too.
>
This sounds very familiar. I also resent taking meds because of the fear they will reduce the ability to access stuff and talk about it. Talking is difficult for me in any situation, but when I am in severe pain it is sometimes easier because the feelings of despair, urgency and loss of control exceed those of sensitivity and shame. On the other hand, without meds the pain is unbearable and I can't get through the days, much less the nights.
Perhaps you can find the proper dosage of the right med in order to find the balance which is right for you- maybe even slightly reducing the pain so that you won't feel numbed out.
Posted by antigua on January 12, 2005, at 14:42:52
In reply to Re: Seminar - Sorry, Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on January 12, 2005, at 14:05:19
Meds did slow me down a lot in therapy, but maybe that was the point. All I do know, Daisy, is that I am much, much less emotional (I used to cry over commercials) and rarely cry now. I don't like that. I can talk about the emotion, but I don't seem to feel it. But in the beginning, they helped a lot. Good luck--you know all the right questions to ask.
As to that seminar... I will send my very good looking, self-confident and sassy T. She will certainly have a lot to say!
antigua
Posted by littleone on January 12, 2005, at 15:19:35
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » Dinah, posted by daisym on January 11, 2005, at 23:58:42
> Thank you for the support. Weird as this sounds, I worry that by cutting down the pain, I'll be cutting down the opportunities to talk about this stuff...and get it all out. Like I won't be able to access stuff because I'm numbed out. on the other hand, being numb would have some benefits too.
Daisy, don't have any advice for you, just thinking about you.
Thought I would add that my meds cut off all my emotions. I tried several different types and they all did this. That feeling of nothingness actually made me more suicidal in the end. I've been much better off them. But that's just me. Everyone's different.
Posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 15:30:21
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » daisym, posted by littleone on January 12, 2005, at 15:19:35
My meds did the opposite as littleone...I bacame emotional for the first time in my life. I use to know exactly how I would respond in situations and now I am hesitant due to this. Although, in some aspects I think it is better. Go for it and see how it affects you...everyone is different.
Posted by mair on January 12, 2005, at 17:12:26
In reply to I hate therapy. (Longish), posted by Daisym on January 11, 2005, at 10:12:06
Daisy - I've been on meds for what seems like forever, and like Dinah, I think you give them to much credit is you think they're going to insulate you from the pain.
However, although I don't feel "numbed out" and readily acknowledge that I'm better off on meds than off, I do think there's something to the theory that meds make me less emotional or at least less able to really tap into emotions.
The issue is on the table now because I've taken myself off one of my meds and have been reluctant to replace it. My T, while not necessarily pressuring me, has observed that the worse I am, the harder it is to work with me in T. I pointed out to her that lately I've made huge strides in allowing myself to feel a greater sense of connection to her, a very big issue for me. Those strides have all come at a time when she might have considered me to be undermedicated.
Maybe it's only a coincidence.
Mair
Posted by daisym on January 12, 2005, at 19:00:37
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » Daisym, posted by mair on January 12, 2005, at 17:12:26
I don't think it is a coincidence. I've been researching (of course) and there are a number of studies that point to medication as "threatening to the theraputic alliance." I guess, as in all things, you need balance.
I talked about this with my therapist today. I said I was worried that I was afraid to get better. He said he thought it was more that I was worried about losing him. If I was better, wouldn't that mean I didn't need him? He tried to reassure me that he wasn't sending me away, nor did he wish for me to stop sharing all this pain with him. He was simply wishing for more rest for me. I'm trying to believe him...
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2005, at 19:04:47
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » mair, posted by daisym on January 12, 2005, at 19:00:37
Daisy, it really is a question of medication choice. SSRI's have always blunted my emotions. A bit of Klonopin or Risperdal help me deal with emotions stirred up. Completely different thing. A bit of Depakote helps my migraines and also seems to contribute to stability without affecting how I feel at all.
They've got me on Luvox (an SSRI) right now, and I'm plotting how soon I can decently stop it and conveniently forget to tell anyone.
But even on max dose Luvox, I was perfectly capable of being completely miserable.
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2005, at 19:08:49
In reply to Re: I hate therapy. (Longish) » mair, posted by daisym on January 12, 2005, at 19:00:37
And as you know (I'm sure) in matters of psychology for every study there's an equal and opposite study. After all, we can't exist, right? Skepdic.com says so. There are convincing studies that say that if you don't talk to ego states, the patient stops making them up for attention. Sigh.
I tend to believe the middle of the road.
Research is good, but make sure you don't bias the results of your research by selective attention. I tend to do that when I have strong feelings about one thing or another.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 12, 2005, at 19:58:38
In reply to Re: Seminar - Sorry, Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on January 12, 2005, at 14:05:19
> The Psychology board is bailing on the PB birthday party so that we can all go to Daisy's neck of the woods so that our therapists can learn to be better therapists at the hands of a master and we can have fun gossiping about them after we all meet them.
Should we just have the party there? :-)
Bob
Posted by daisym on January 12, 2005, at 20:01:26
In reply to Re: Seminar, posted by Dr. Bob on January 12, 2005, at 19:58:38
Absolutely! It is warmer here anyway and the rain has stopped. I bet I can arrange a tour of the Jelly belly factory as well as wine tours.
We would, of course, want you to be a featured speaker too. :)
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