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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 16, 2004, at 22:18:00
I really would like for my therapist to meet them. I've told him about them, of course. But I don't think anyone can truly appreciate the... extremeness, the exaggerated caricatures, the total enormity of my parents without meeting them.
I thought I had explained my parents to my therapist adequately, but I now believe that is not so. I told him yesterday about a perfect stranger who counseled me to be patient with my mother because she can't help what she is, after a chance encounter. And my therapist was surprised. He said it must feel good to have outside corroboration, and to know that I wasn't making these things up.
I always knew that. I have had so much outside corroboration that it isn't even funny. Schoolmates telling me how awful it must be to have my mother as a parent. Perfect strangers and casual aquaintances not only making remarks about her, but asking me to intercede with her on their behalf. Relatives who wish to tell me in exquisite detail why it is impossible for them to speak to her, and why all communications about family business should come through me.
I thought I had adequately conveyed this. But on further reflection, I wonder if my parents can be adequately conveyed by words alone. But my parents can't hide who they are. In a fifty minute session, my father is quite likely to tell my mother that he despises her, that she is evil incarnate, and that he'd like to kill her and/or himself. He's likely to say horrible horrible things about my brother. And my mother can't say more than a few sentences without revealing her extreme love of attention and her disregard for mere reality.
My husband won't even answer the phone when they call. He lets it ring unanswered.
What I need is a pretext to get them there, and of course, my therapist's permission. Does this sound like something that would be worthwhile to pursue?
Posted by tabitha on June 16, 2004, at 22:36:21
In reply to I want to drag my parents to therapy, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2004, at 22:18:00
It sounds like it would be quite a scene. But how would you get them there? I suppose just asking would be out of the question.
I wonder if my brother would be in the same league in terms of just incredibly inappropriate & offensive behavior. I can never quite adequately describe what he can be like.
Posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 23:50:36
In reply to I want to drag my parents to therapy, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2004, at 22:18:00
could you just tell them including them in your therapy is an integral part of your recovery/illness? would they be receptive.
but, yeah, that sounds like it'd be quite a show to see.
(i'm sorry you've had things so rough.)
Posted by daisym on June 17, 2004, at 0:29:38
In reply to Re: I want to drag my parents to therapy » Dinah, posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 23:50:36
you are braver than me then. I wouldn't let mine near my therapy with a 10-foot pole. I guess I believe accuracy isn't so much what is important as your perceptions and their effect on you.
I'm sure it is and was hard to have family like this. Don't you wish we could all choose? Or trade? Now THERE's a reality show! Take my husband...please!
Hang in there. You are earning your place in heaven.
Daisy.
Posted by shadows721 on June 17, 2004, at 1:47:05
In reply to I want to drag my parents to therapy, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2004, at 22:18:00
It's worth a try to ask them. But, remember, some folks never want to see their real problem facing them in the mirror.
Posted by cubic_me on June 17, 2004, at 5:59:36
In reply to Re: I want to drag my parents to therapy, posted by shadows721 on June 17, 2004, at 1:47:05
I'm like Daisy in that I wouldn't let my parents anywhere near my therapy (they don't even know I go), but if you think that your therapist seeing them will help you, then go for it (if you can get them there!) Maybe you could tell them that there is something in it for them, like 50 mins of attention for your mum...
I don't think my T knows how my parents really are either, its quite a hard thing to convey with just a few words and anecdotes. My mum is so formidable her friends call her 'the general', and my friends never phoned me when I was a child because they were so scared my mum would answer. She's not nasty, just scary!
Good luck honey
Posted by fallsfall on June 17, 2004, at 7:20:58
In reply to I want to drag my parents to therapy, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2004, at 22:18:00
Yes. You should do it. Absolutely.
My dad came to a therapy session with my first therapist. She said so many times that meeting him really helped her to understand what was going on. And yes, he came across just as he really is.
Tell them that you, their daughter, need their help. That your therapist needs to understand better what you were like as a child. That you and your therapist think that if they came in and talked about your childhood that it would help him to understand you better. This approach makes it non-threatening to them - you aren't asking them to come to talk about THEM. You are asking them to come and talk about YOU - because they are the experts - they were there, they saw you growing up.
During the session, in order to control your anxiety, maybe you could focus on how the point is for your therapist to see who they are. Of course you don't tell THEM that. But that approach has helped me to be more detached, I have been able to remove focus in my mind from what they are saying to *observing* HOW they are acting. Whatever they say about your childhood is, in fact, irrelevant. The point is for your therapist to see who THEY are.
You should do this.
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 7:52:44
In reply to Re: Absolutely drag your parents to therapy » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 17, 2004, at 7:20:58
I mentioned it to her last night. That it would be helpful for my therapist to get a third party view of what went on during my teenage troubles, and to talk about how I was as a child. I didn't mention anything about them. It sounds as if she's reluctant, but she'd do it once my dad gets home and settled down. Which is completely reasonable and I'd never ask her to do it until then anyway.
I'm not at all sure my therapist would be willing, but if he's not that must mean that he really does know what's going on.
My father wouldn't go. Period.
Posted by lucy stone on June 17, 2004, at 8:42:55
In reply to I think my mom would go, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 7:52:44
I'm going to go against the consensus and I say that I think it might not be a great idea. I wonder if it really necessary for your T to see them in action. Are you sure that he has not fully grasped their reality? My in-laws are truly dreadful and have caused me and my husband great pain. We both explore our relationship with them in our therapies. I don't think my T needs to meet them in person in order for him to know what they are like, because I have explored their actions so much with him. Perhaps you could talk more with your T about this specific issue, that you think he does not fully grasp what they are like. If he doesn't, you need to know why. It sounds a bit deceptive to me, telling your mom that you want her to go to a session to talk about you as a teen, while your real reason is to let the T see what she is really like. I know my T would not participate in a session like that. I am not defending toxic parents, since I have seen the harm they can do in my own husband, but it seems like this might not be the best way to approach your problem. After all, the important thing is not what your mother is like, but it's about the effect on you.
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 9:35:05
In reply to Re: I think my mom would go, posted by lucy stone on June 17, 2004, at 8:42:55
Not that I'm a stranger about misleading my mother, but it wouldn't be for a very kind reason.
I guess I'm just feeling a bit frustrated that he was surprised. I thought that if he had really grasped the concept, he wouldn't have been a bit surprised that strangers comment on it.
And my husband and I had a few joint sessions and it was enormously helpful to me. My therapist was then able to give me muuuuch more helpful input when we discuss my husband, because he knows firsthand what my husband is like. It's hard to hear about people secondhand and get a really good picture of them. But most of the people in my life are straightforward enough that a few sessions really convey their essence.
Perhaps if I told my mother that it would be helpful for my therapy, without giving specifics as of why it would be helpful, it would clarify the ethical issues.
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 9:56:36
In reply to Re: I think my mom would go, posted by lucy stone on June 17, 2004, at 8:42:55
I'm not altogether certain that it doesn't matter what my mother is really like, either. That would probably be true if she were dead. But I need to deal with her, and because of that, any information he has about her will help him discuss my options in a more realistic way.
For example, if he thinks that my perception that she has poor reality testing might or might not be correct, he might suggest I do certain things that I know won't work, but that he doesn't know won't work because he's not sure if my perception is correct. But if he meets her and sees for himself that she has poor reality testing, he won't waste either of our time by suggesting things that are completely inappropriate, and won't get annoyed with me for "dismissing" his suggestions.
I definitely found that to be true with my husband. After meeting him, my therapist quit trotting out the standard marital therapy bromides about communications and just started saying "Well, surely that isn't surprising given who your husband is."
Overall, I think it might be useful for my therapist to meet everyone in my life. Fortunately there aren't that many, just mainly my parents and husband.
Posted by lucy stone on June 17, 2004, at 10:53:17
In reply to Re: I think my mom would go » lucy stone, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 9:56:36
I can certainly see your point. I am torn about this, because on the one hand I would like my T to meet everyone in my life, and on the other hand I want to make his judgements based on what I tell him. That may not be reality, but it is my reality. We have approached my husband's parents in a entirely different way than you have, in that we have very limited contact with them. My husband has a phone relationship with them and I basically don't talk to them. They live on the other side of the country and I only see them if they come to see us. That happens about every 2 years or so. My husband visits occaisionally. I was surprised to hear that my T has a sister that he does not see or talk to. I had assumed that he would not have problem relationships in his life. He told me that sometimes the best relationship you can have with some people is not to have one. That is what I have done with my in-laws. I'm not suggesting you do that with your parents because every relationship is different, but that where I am coming from in my comments.
Posted by tterees on June 17, 2004, at 22:41:16
In reply to Re: I think my mom would go, posted by lucy stone on June 17, 2004, at 10:53:17
I live in a different state than my family, but I recently took a very good friend with me to a session. Seeing me from a different perspective helped my therapist see me. In therapy, it is all about YOU. Not your parents, not your husband, not your lover, not anyone else but you. You can't change your parents, all you can change is how you react to them. And if your therapist meets them, maybe your therapist will have some new ideas to help.
Posted by Racer on June 19, 2004, at 11:44:51
In reply to I want to drag my parents to therapy, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2004, at 22:18:00
You know enough of my current state to know why I can't read all the responses right now. Here are my three or four cents worth:
1. Get them there if you possibly can. I do think it would make a hell of a difference for you.
2. Trust story: my best friend from college is living across the country. When she heard my now-ex-boyfriend was meeting my mother for the first time, she called and had me put her on speaker phone to take to him. She said, "Everyone says their parents are nuts. In Racer's case, it's true."
3. Same now-ex-bf a few weeks ago, visiting us after spending a day with my mother. "She's IMPOSSIBLE!!!" Me: "Yeah, well, I could be impossible, too, I'm just not that ambitious. I'm happy to settle for implausible."
Get your parents to therapy if you can. You might try, 'gee, folks, you know I'm in therapy, and we're working on something right now that I think you could really help with, since you have an outside view of what really happened.' You know, make them the experts -- everyone likes to be the expert, you know?
Best luck, Dinah, and if it happens -- I, for one, want ALL the details.
Posted by terrics on June 19, 2004, at 14:57:44
In reply to I want to drag my parents to therapy, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2004, at 22:18:00
Wow Dinah, Do you think bringing them to therapy would change anything? Or do you want your T. to know what you are dealing with? Do others have to know how they are? Or is it ok just for you and us to know. It seems you really have alot to contend with. Whatever you decide I hope it works out.(((Dinah)))
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2004, at 8:56:54
In reply to Re: I want to drag my parents to therapy » Dinah, posted by terrics on June 19, 2004, at 14:57:44
He swears that I brought her in early in my therapy, but he is mistaken. He just met her in passing with me elsewhere in the building once. And my father waited for me in the waiting room once when I was bringing him to a doctor's appointment in the area immediately before or after my session.
My therapist thinks it can generally be helpful for a therapist to meet the other people in a client's immediate family. Although we did, of course, thoroughly explore why I was bringing it up "now". I always hate that question because it makes me feel like he thinks it was inappropriate although he has explained often enough that that isn't what he means.
My father won't of course go. He rarely agrees to go anywhere anymore.
My mother is agreeable, and I don't even think she'd attack him at this point (verbally, of course) as she might have earlier. My greatest fear is that she'll express her opinion that he is attractive since she and my father have the notion that that is a large part of why I have stayed in therapy so long.
Posted by Aphrodite on June 20, 2004, at 10:07:39
In reply to Re: My therapist is agreeable, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2004, at 8:56:54
> My mother is agreeable, and I don't even think she'd attack him at this point (verbally, of course) as she might have earlier. My greatest fear is that she'll express her opinion that he is attractive since she and my father have the notion that that is a large part of why I have stayed in therapy so long.
Forgive the intimate nature of this question, but do your parents know you at all??? If they did, I can't imagine them coming to this conclusion about why you've stayed in therapy.
I'm glad he's agreeable, but of course, he'll analyze why you want to.
I once brought in pictures of my parents because they are gone, and I wanted him to have a mental image of them when I spoke of them. He thanked me for it.
Let us know how it goes.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2004, at 10:45:18
In reply to Re: My therapist is agreeable, posted by Aphrodite on June 20, 2004, at 10:07:39
Sadly, my parents don't know me all that well. Or maybe they only know parts of me. Apparently they don't know my taste in men particularly well. If my therapist were blonde with crinkly blue eyes, smile lines, and blonde arm hair curling over his watch band visible because of his carelessly rolled up sleeves, I'd never be able to see him as a therapist at all. :D
I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2004, at 23:18:19
In reply to Re: My therapist is agreeable » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2004, at 10:45:18
Dinah,
That's a nice visual image...Regarding your parents, at first I didn't think it was such a good idea. I'm not sure why. I think I wasn't sure what your goal/wish for it was. I know in my case I would have a couple reasons for not wanting to invite her...first, she really doesn't get my depression and therapy. So I'm not sure she would agree. She may fear that we are "checking her out."
Also, I think I would harbor a secret wish that some "moment" would happen and things would get much better. And that would be an unrealistic expectation.
So that's mainly why I wouldn't do it with my mom. I have to admit, I had a similar reaction as your T, wondering why now? But that may be just T training or instinct or something. :)
I hope it goes well for you, I really do. I think you are really brave for it, cause it would scare me to pieces with my Mom, I think.
Or, I would worry that he would like her better than me, because she can be quite charming in her superficial way. sigh. I know that's irrational. But still in there, I guess.
Take care,
gg
Posted by pegasus on June 21, 2004, at 0:01:39
In reply to Re: My therapist is agreeable, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2004, at 23:18:19
It doesn't seem to me to be any big mystery why you want to bring your parents to therapy *now*. Isn't it because you recently had an interaction with your T that made you think that he didn't believe or understand what you've told him about your mother. So you want to prove to him that what you've said is correct. That seems totally reasonable and understandable to me. Maybe I'm just being thick and there are other more complicated and/or subtle reasons that it's coming up now, but that obvious, straightforward reason seems adequate to explain the timing. At least to me.
And if your mom does go, you really must tell us all about how it goes. I'm dying to know already, and it hasn't even been arranged yet. I hope it turns out to be helpful for your therapy.
pegasus
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 10:53:25
In reply to Re: My therapist is agreeable, posted by pegasus on June 21, 2004, at 0:01:39
That's why I hate those "why now" questions. The answers always seem self evident to me. So self evident that I always assume that the only reason he could ask them is to subtly reprove me. I think he's convinced me that that isn't the case. That therapists just have to ask that question, no matter how foolish it might appear on any given occasion.
"Why are you choosing now to ask for a cast?"
"Well, you see, I just fell and broke my leg."
We've put it off for a while. My mom was going to go today to get away from my dad for a while, I think. But it turns out they may be letting him go home today so she needs to be there to talk to doctors, etc.
This is the end of the thread.
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