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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by fallsfall on February 25, 2004, at 11:00:30
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2004, at 10:36:39
I don't know about the PTSD and the nightmares, but I share Dinah's frustration. I keep feeling that decisions that he is making, and things that he is saying are for *his* benefit, rather than for *yours*. I will be charitable and say that I don't think he's a *bad" person - and I think that he will be a good therapist - I just think that he has a lot of learning to do right now. And I think that *you* are ending up bearing a lot of the pain for his learning.
He needs some experience. Unfortunately for you, I believe that *your* needs are for an experienced therapist (who won't let you avoid the issues, who won't be suckered by your "talents", who will show you how to relate without playing games).
The therapist-client relationship is all about "fit". Dinah would be miserable with my therapist, and it is likely that I wouldn't be very happy with hers. That doesn't say anything about Dinah or me or her therapist or mine. The point is that it is important to be working with a therapist who "fits" with you - who can give you what you need, when you need it (even if you don't want it).
Posted by fallsfall on February 25, 2004, at 11:08:30
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on February 25, 2004, at 11:00:30
I didn't answer the question you asked. And I gave you unsolicited advice. You have asked about the question that I did answer, and I answered it then, and you disagreed. I think that I need to learn how to allow other people to make their own decisions, even if I disagree with the decision. I'm not very good at that yet.
I am sorry for intruding where I wasn't invited.
Falls.
Posted by Rigby on February 25, 2004, at 11:36:53
In reply to I asked for A Do-Over, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 7:30:25
Hi Karen,
I have PTSD from a physically abusive background (age 2-13.) I have had major, major problems with nightmares that spill into my day. Generally they are worse after deeper sessions which makes sense.
Good news I think--it does get better--lots better. At least it has for me. My therapist and I have set one of my goals for leaving therapy to be when the nightmares calm down consistently and when we were setting that goal my therapist did not at all think it was out of reach. So it's possible.
One thing that I do is that I do write them down in detail and I send them to my therapist. Since you'll be doing group maybe there could be some sort of spot for sharing dreams? Dunno. But I have found writing them down to be therapeutic. Also, since I am a writer I find dreams to be a good source of material.
Rigby
> So Question, anyone with PTSD::: Will these nightmares ever stop? I have a feeling the issue is as "open" as it will ever get for a while, possibly years. He says that I will feel better the more I talk aobut it..... But, I just want the nightmares to stop. I've not had a problem with flashbacks, and I had just one. But, will the nightmares continue for the rest of my life if I don't talk about my dad anymore? Even though I have been, they're still there... And I never had nightmares before I started talking about him. Does anyone know? Karen just wants to have sweet dreams again.
>
>
Posted by shortelise on February 25, 2004, at 13:12:36
In reply to I asked for A Do-Over, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 7:30:25
Has your Dad become a symbol? Could it be that you are feeling hurt by your T and so dream about your "Dad", the deepest hurt? Forgive me if I over-explain, but what I'm trying to say is that we develop our own symbols based on our lives. I may dream about schools, goverment offices, hospitals a lot because I was in a psych hospital for a year 25 years ago - and institutions have come to sybolize that I feel out of control of my life. You may dream about your Dad when you feel the feelings - to a greater or lesser degree - that you felt/feel about him. Maybe if you looked at what you felt in that dream and asked yourself how those feelings relate to what is going on in your life right now, you might find that it's less about then and more about now.
This is a hard part: sometimes (often!! - ok, very often...)the people in our dreams are parts of ourselves. This is where projection onto the therpist gets really interesting. So many of the feelings that we can't handle, we get our therapist to feel for us (in our own minds, right?) and these come out in our dreams ... I think. At least, for me they do...
Does this make sense? I've done a lot of dream work, find it very interesting what dreams can reveal.
Keep in mind that I am stumbling through all of this myself and do not pretend to thoroughly understand anything except how to properly cook salmon.
ShortE
Posted by antigua on February 25, 2004, at 14:44:05
In reply to nightmares, posted by shortelise on February 25, 2004, at 13:12:36
Oh, Karen, let's try to believe that the nightmares will stop so that we can have hope, o.k.? I have nightmares but I can't remember them--I just wake up petrified, and I don't know what's caused it.
If so many other parts of our lives improve, dreaming must improve too. That's how I'm going to think about it.
Glad you asked for a Do-Over. I would have too.
antigua
Posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 16:04:00
In reply to I asked for A Do-Over, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 7:30:25
I don't know if the nightmares will stop, they haven't for me. What is the content of your nightmares? Do you dream of things that actually happened or are these events that didn't happen in reality, but are very similar to things that did happen? I have nightmares where my abuser is still overpowering me and I'm still a terrified, helpless girl. I don't dream about things that happened, mine are focused on feelings that I felt during the times I was abused (terror, fear, axiety, unsure, etc). My real life former abuser plays the part of the abuser in my dreams. I hate those dreams.
Elle
Posted by rs on February 25, 2004, at 16:04:29
In reply to I asked for A Do-Over, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 7:30:25
Oh Karen so sorry this is hard for you. Yes nightmares are difficult. They do say it gets better. Good for you about calling for a make over.
Karen do you feel that Bubba understands where you are coming from. That makes a differnce IMO;
Would like to share something with you. Today is a difficult day due to some major issues. Have DID. Anyway called T and he said he did not understand but would be there to listen. Which appreciate. But right now need someone that understands what is going on becaue its hard here to makes sense of it or face it. Thanks for listening to that.
Know that thoughts are with you and support you. PTSD is very difficult.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:04:41
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2004, at 10:36:39
Dinah girl, have I told you I love you lately?? You had me at the "Ooooh I wish I knew him." comment...
The reason he avoided talking about my father, IMO, is because I fainted during the week while talking aobut it. I think he was trying to put the issue on hold, unless I brought it up. Whether that's the best course of action is debatable. But, I can see the harm in (basically) forcing me to discuss something that I am overwhelmed with. Guess his idea of "Think about it for an hour a day" was way off, just as I suggested to him....
As to the group, I'll not discuss it as I am avoiding that issue altogether,,, :)
Well, maybe I'll not avoid it for a second. I'm going to group. I know (For A FACT) I will not discuss my father, nor my nightmares as they too will give away *My Dirty Secret*... Now, not to sound like a royal b****, but in my head I'm thinking, HONESTY here folks, check it out! And don't hate me for being honest... But, I'm thinking, "This shouldn't have happened to me. I'm perfect, or at least on my way to being that. Now, if I admit to a GROUP OF STRANGERS that this happend to me, I'll be labeled in their heads as "The Girl Whose Father Molested Her." You can tell me it's not true, you can reassure me that they won't think that.... HOWEVER, from the outside you can't tell. I keep it together and I'll NOT be labelde that way. IT's too shameful for me to think that's how others will discuss me and see me... Think of this:
One of the members is at home talking with spouse. We'll call her Betty. Betty's husband David says, "How did group go today?" She responds, "Well, we talked about the girl who was molested and how she's not able....."
No, thank you. I'd rather be "The girl without a heart." or "The girl who doesn't communicate well." Or even "The Ugly Girl in the Corner" (Now, I'm not even entertaining the thought that I'm ugly or having problems with my self esteem, I'm jsut saying I'd rather be labeled and called Ugly than THE GIRL WHO WAS MOLESTED BY HER FATHER.... This will not happen...
As for BUbba, I feel that I'm serving his needs rather than my own. Hmmmm, now why in the world would that happen... BECAUSE IT'S MY PATTERN... Because I do it when I have sex with strangers, because I send my last few dollars to my sister if I need to. AND BECAUSE I ALLOWED MY FATHER TO
DO THE THINGS HE DID... HELLO!!! IT'S A PATTERN AND MY OWN STUPID THERAPIST IS AIDIG ME IN CONTINUING THIS SELF DESTRUCTIVE PATTTERN.... My own therapist.Well, now that you know how I feel about that, let's move on before I faint again....
I have my Do-Over MOnday and my regular session wednesday. I'll talk about my father on Monday and I'll talk about Bubba on Tuesday. He won't like what I have to say. He'll become defensive, as of course in his head he thinks, "I'm doing what's right. This will help her, ect.. As long as she talks aobut it, the secret is no longer a secret and she heals.." Obviously he doesn't realize that I'm very good at keeping secrets and protecting my image.... No, he does realize it. He's jsut doing what he thinks is best and what he thinks will help me... OBviously he lacks experience in this matter, as I'm KNOW myself and talking about it in front of a group of strangers is NOT what I'm going to do. I'm not being stubborn, I just want to protect my perfect image.... HA! It's not so perfect, now is it
?
Posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:09:49
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on February 25, 2004, at 11:00:30
Falls my dear, I encourage advice... Don't feel that it was unsolicited.. If you want to tell me something, even if I don't want to hear it, please feel free. I won't be offended... Not in the slightest.
See above post for explanation.. The one to dinah. I got some things off my chest in there.. And I was *GASP* honest...
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful :) And I'm not talking about physically.
Some how, admitting how I feel aobut the situation doesn't make me feel so beautiful. It makes me feel as though I think I'm "better than that" as if I'm too "good" to have bad things happen to me... It's not that I feel that way at all, it just shouldn't have happened period and NOW I'M GETTING ANGRY.... That's a good thing, I suppose...
Posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:14:06
In reply to PTSD And Nightmares » Karen_kay, posted by Rigby on February 25, 2004, at 11:36:53
Thak you for helping me believe that they will get better...
But, I can't share my dreams in group.... NOPE! Then people will know. And that's far worse than anything Iwent through... The fact that people know and that it actually happened to me. No way sister. It didn't happen to me, at least others will think that....
DOES ANYONE ELSE FEEL THIS WAY????? LIKE IT'S SOME DIRTY SECRET THAT IS TOO HORRIBLE TO TELL OTHERS ABOUT??? HOW DO YOU OVERVCOME THAT? THEY'LL "LABEL ME" AS *THE GIRL..... YOU KNOW THE REST... TELL ME I'M NOT ALONE IN THIS... I'M REALLY NOT A HORRIBLE PERSON FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO BEAR THE THOUGHT THAT OTHERS WILL KNOW.......
Posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:20:16
In reply to nightmares, posted by shortelise on February 25, 2004, at 13:12:36
I think my dad just stands for my dad...
But in this deam, for the first time ever Iwas a child... And I was confused because my niece looks so much like me, I thought it was her for a split-second. And we were walking through a store and I was wearing a yellow (the only color) Raincat and boots to match (yes, even in my dreams I'm somewhat stylish :)) with a yellow umbrella. We were walking in a straight line, with my father leading. My mother was behind him, then my sisters.. In order of age. And it started rianing iin the store, and I was the only one prepared..... There were parts with sex in them, but I don't quite recall if it was my father or another man....
I remember fear, when I thought that "I" as a child, was my niece. I was fearful because I thought "We have to get hewr out of that house" For some reason I thought she was living with him, that he was still alive and hurting her....I remember confusion when it started raining. i don't remember any feelings during the sexual act, but I can't even recall much of the act itself..
Sorry to bore you all with my dreams and my "drama".. But, it helps to get it on paper, or a screen at least.....
Posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:22:23
In reply to Re: nightmares, posted by antigua on February 25, 2004, at 14:44:05
But my life is improving... I'm stable emotionally (even if I have none :)), I'm in school. No problems with anxiety.... If they improve as life gets better, then I must have to be a millionare for things to improve.... Thanks for your kind words though..
And I do have hope that things will get better for all of us...
Posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:24:19
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Karen_kay, posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 16:04:00
IT's a good question if the things in my dreams happened or not...
They always involve him having sex with me. I don't remember it, but I had a flash back...
But, usually during the dreams I have some fear and a lot of confusion... I guess they go along with my current state of being right now...
I hope your nightmares stop hun..
Posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:27:12
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Karen_kay, posted by rs on February 25, 2004, at 16:04:29
I wish I understood and could help you, but I don't know much about DID. I'm glad you have a therapist that may not understand how you're feeling, but will listen and support you. That helps a lot, I'm sure..
I'm sorry your day was bad. If I can do anything to make it better let me know. Sometimes a hot bath and a cold shower right afterwards helps me... Or reading a book? Distraction baby, distraction...
You take care of you, ok???? I'm thinking about you hun..
Posted by rs on February 25, 2004, at 19:07:20
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Karen_kay, posted by rs on February 25, 2004, at 16:04:29
Oh Karen. I hear what you are saying. Yes feel like that about not wanting peopele to find out. Just remember Bubba will be there to support you hopefully in what ever you decide. You will be in my thoughts.
Karen you metioned in one of your post that you let your father do theese things to you. It was not your fault. Please try to tell yourself that. you did not ask for anything or deserve it. The shame belongs to them and not you. Please say that to yourself. Even if it means looking in the mirror. We all carry the shame and guilt which is hard but we must all tell ourselves this.
Sorry if typing is not the best. Hang in there my friend.
Posted by rs on February 25, 2004, at 19:24:38
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » rs, posted by rs on February 25, 2004, at 19:07:20
Above meant for Karen. Sorry still learning.
Posted by fallsfall on February 25, 2004, at 20:10:13
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » rs, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:27:12
Karen,
What happened when you were little was NOT YOUR FAULT. You didn't do anything wrong. No child could possibly do anything that would mean that it would be appropriate for an adult to act like your father acted. You do not need to feel ashamed - because YOU did nothing to be ashamed of.
Your father did wrong things. HE should be ashamed - and I guess you can be ashamed OF him.
But you are NOT a bad person because HE did something wrong. You are a GOOD person who had bad things done TO you.
I wouldn't think of you as "the girl..." I would think of you as "The brave girl who is moving on with her life".
IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT
Posted by antigua on February 25, 2004, at 20:45:50
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:04:41
Sorry to bust in here, but I have to tell you that I really agree with you about not wanting to be labeled "The girl who was molested by her father." I KNOW that people treat me differently when they find out and I don't care one whit if any T, psychiatrist, counselor, etc. tells me I'm wrong. I'm right and it's been proven again and again to me, and at this point it is still very painful to me. I'd rather not tell at all because I don't think other people can handle it or they are embarrassed by it, or they pity me because they don't understand. A lot of times I'm met w/silence, which can be the worst, invalidating response of all. I'm not paranoid, I know it's true--whether I'm evaluating their reaction in light of my own feelings, or if the other person has issues of their own and what I say makes them uncomfortable with their own issues.
I will not be known as that girl. I will not be a victim anymore.
This is just a rant. Don't take any of it personally, it's not "aimed" at anyone. Also, in response to your response to me, don't get me wrong--I, too, have a great life and while I may have some problems, I am very grateful for the good things in my life and I realize how fortunate I am. But, I, too, would like the nightmares to go away. I believe they will eventually.
antigua
Posted by DaisyM on February 25, 2004, at 20:58:11
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:04:41
>>>HOWEVER, from the outside you can't tell. I keep it together and I'll NOT be labelde that way. IT's too shameful for me to think that's how others will discuss me and see me...
Oh Karen, I'm sorry I've been missing while you've been going through all this. The last two weeks...somehow I find myself wishing you could sit in my sessions, not because i want to share all the pain but because I think it would be validating to you. I agree with what you said above.
I described myself as a thermos that is broken. You can't tell on from the outside, but if you touch me, shake me up a little, you can hear all the pieces moving around. Fallsfall tells me you can't put the pieces back together if you leave them inside because you can't see them. My Therapist said that if I don't let some of this out, it will find its own way out -- through melt downs, forgetting things, stress, anxiety and eventually it might even make me sick.
It is amazingly hard to talk about. I have said a million times: I don't want this to define who I am. But it is a part of what happened and the memories are pushing up, one after another, and now that little girl has found her voice and WON'T SHUTUP! Even in dreams. The only way to quiet her is to let her talk during sessions.
I think you are brave to go to group. But I agree with you, I don't ever see myself talking about this in an environment like that. I was ranting about how the books make is sound easy, "just tell, you will feel better." I asked my Therapist about this. He tells me that we will just keep doing it in small doses, what I can tolerate and am willing to talk about. I gave him a whole conversation between the child me and the adult me about what happened. He read it, but didn't make me read it or talk about it yet. Not until I'm ready. Getting it out on paper really helped though.
On Monday, after he read the conversation, I looked at him and said, "sometimes I think this all can't be true. That somewhere it is a bad dream that i've remembered. Or maybe I just wish it wasn't true." He looked at me very sadly and said, "I believe it is true. I think you do to. I think these are real memories. I wish it wasn't true but it is. It makes me really sad but the truth is better than unknown terror." And then we sat very quietly for a long time.But I think I needed to hear that. I think you do to. Because what happened, happened. It isn't your fault but you can't make it not true. I believe you.
-D
Posted by All Done on February 25, 2004, at 21:36:34
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:04:41
Karen,
My heart is aching for you, sweetie.
We are a kind of "group" at Babble, aren't we? Well, as one of the members I can tell you I *absolutely* do *not* think of you as "the girl who..."
I think of you as "a lovely woman who..."
feels compassion for others
finds strength in herself at times it must feel like there is no more
is kind, friendly, and supportive of others
is working hard to overcome adversity
is intelligent
is braveI know you work hard to make everyone here feel better, but please don't forget we are here for you, too. You can lean on us. It's okay, I promise.
All Done...for now. I'll go on with the list if you want me to. I know you want me to, don't you? ;)
Posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 22:50:42
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:04:41
((((((Karen)))))))
>AND BECAUSE I ALLOWED MY FATHER TO DO THE THINGS HE DID...
NO. You did NOT ALLOW him to do those things. You were a child and had no choice in the matter. DO NOT blame his actions on yourself. I think it's a pretty strong trend that abused children belive the things that happened to them are their fault. It's certainly been the case with me. BUT, I can objectively look at your situation, and tell you that it was not your fault. It will be okay Karen.
Elle
Posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2004, at 6:57:52
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on February 25, 2004, at 20:58:11
Posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2004, at 6:58:30
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Karen_kay, posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 22:50:42
Posted by Dinah on February 26, 2004, at 9:58:20
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 25, 2004, at 17:04:41
I can't imagine that anyone would pigeonhole you as "the girl who" anything. You are obviously too complex and vibrant for that. But have you considered asking Bubba what the makeup of the group will be? And of course I know that you know that nothing that happened to you as a child is your fault or your responsibility.
But unless this group is made up of people with similar issues to yours, I have to agree with you that the timing might not be quite right. Have you asked Bubba for explanations of group that have to do with *you* and not with his desire to keep you as a client or his excitement at putting together his very first group? Heaven knows, he might have very good reasons, or his supervisor might have very good reasons. And maybe if there are good reasons that have to do with *you* and not them, you might feel a bit less angry about the whole thing.
Sigh. I wish I could help you see that when I see you I don't see someone who should be despised or pitied. And you don't need to work so hard at being perfect either. You are inherently valuable and loveable and worthwhile. You, Karen Kay, as you are. Without trying. What you create when you're trying is a lovely lovely setting, but one for a gem that is beautiful all by itself. I wish I could help you see that. But I'm guessing that it's something you need to see for yourself.
Posted by Dinah on February 26, 2004, at 10:02:52
In reply to Re: I asked for A Do-Over » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on February 25, 2004, at 20:58:11
> ... and now that little girl has found her voice and WON'T SHUTUP! Even in dreams. The only way to quiet her is to let her talk during sessions.
>
Bravo for that little girl. And bravo to you for letting her speak. She's carried a lot by herself for a long time. Honestly, Daisy. I think it's wonderful of grown up, sensible, accomplished, Daisy to let that little girl speak her piece and get some peace. Maybe as you get to know her better, you'll find that you *want* to hear from her more.
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