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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2003, at 11:45:33
I'm so excited and a little nervous. I don't suppose they give the video games to the adults. :(
But I really want to have fun with this, as well as hopefully help my overall wellbeing and my headaches in particular.
I feel like a kid before Christmas!!
Posted by Poet on October 31, 2003, at 12:58:12
In reply to Biofeedback Monday!!, posted by Dinah on October 31, 2003, at 11:45:33
My sister did biofeedback for migraines and it definitely helped her.
If they have video games for kids, don't be ashamed to ask for one. My dentist has a walkman and a choice of CDs to listen to or patients can bring their own CDs. Anything that relaxes someone is good at any age.
Send a progress report after your session.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2003, at 17:03:27
In reply to Re: Biofeedback Monday!! » Dinah, posted by Poet on October 31, 2003, at 12:58:12
I spoke to the biofeedback guy's secretary and it turns out the service is not just biofeedback. It's psychotherapy combined with biofeedback. And my therapist won't let me have another therapist. I called him and asked him about it and he said it was ok, as long as it was specific or something (I called back for the precise words - I don't want to screw that up), but not ok if it wasn't.
I'm not so excited anymore. :( I would never want to do anything to jeopardize my therapy. Sigh.
Posted by Poet on October 31, 2003, at 18:37:56
In reply to Re: I'm in trrrroouuublllle, posted by Dinah on October 31, 2003, at 17:03:27
Dinah,
Bummer!
Wouldn't you think that they would have told you before you made the appointment that it's psychotherapy, too?
I would tell biofeedback guy what your therapist said about seeing another therapist. Lay down your own ground rules.
I think what your therapist meant by it being okay if it's specific means that it's okay if you talk about something biofeedback related like stress reduction.
I'm hoping for the best for you.
Poet
Posted by DaisyM on October 31, 2003, at 21:15:09
In reply to Re: I'm in trrrroouuublllle » Dinah, posted by Poet on October 31, 2003, at 18:37:56
We did a course of biofeedback with my son and it was with another therapist. BUT she did stay on track with stress deduction and managing anxiety. She asked questions about the anxiety and we tracked stomach aches for her, but it wasn't "issue" related. My son loved it and he uses what he learned all the time. I echo Poet - make your own rules - you don't have to tell anything, YOu know?
Posted by Dinah on November 1, 2003, at 5:36:04
In reply to Re: I'm in trrrroouuublllle, posted by DaisyM on October 31, 2003, at 21:15:09
You guys are reassuring me a lot. And restoring some of my excitement, which went spiraling down when I realized there was a sticky situation ahead.
I called my therapist to get the exact words I'm supposed to say. I'm going to write them down on a card small enough to consult. More reassuringly, he laughed at how big a deal I was making of it. So I guess that he won't fire me outright if I mess it up. He'll probably give me a chance to fix it.
So I can be excited about the biofeedback again, especially after hearing such good reports of it. Although there's still a slight taint of fear to the endeavor.
I really hope I get the electrodes! I want to learn to change my brain waves! That would be way too cool. But my therapist said his biofeedback was just on his muscles for relaxation, though he's seen the other sort in progress. That would be a huge let down.
I guess it's pretty understandable that I want to learn how to have power over this brain of mine?
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2003, at 8:48:24
In reply to Biofeedback Monday!!, posted by Dinah on October 31, 2003, at 11:45:33
I don't suppose they'll do any today, which is a shame because I'm in prime shape for it. My body is an anxious mess. :)
Posted by deirdrehbrt on November 3, 2003, at 9:01:54
In reply to Re: Cross your fingers for me., posted by Dinah on November 3, 2003, at 8:48:24
I am vut it is really hard to tye this way.
Posted by Poet on November 3, 2003, at 9:27:05
In reply to Re: Cross your fingers for me., posted by Dinah on November 3, 2003, at 8:48:24
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2003, at 12:37:15
In reply to Re: Cross your fingers for me., posted by Dinah on November 3, 2003, at 8:48:24
Followup later, when I've pulled myself together some.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2003, at 9:13:49
In reply to Re: Finger crossing didn't work. :((((, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2003, at 12:37:15
How did it go wrong? Let me count the ways...
It unexpectedly was not covered by insurance, because they are not on preferred provider list despite assurances from them that they were. They offered to not charge me for the initial session, but that meant not doing the biofeedback, and despite everything I still think that's got potential. So a very large out of pocket hit of $300 I can't afford.
I don't get to do the brain waves. :(( And that's what I was really looking forward to. (pout) He did hold out hope that before the therapy was over, he might consider it worthwhile. But mainly what he does for migraines is the temperature readings.
He appears to be a big CBT believer. And he also seems to be one of those core belief believers. He kept asking me the theme of this or that. Sigh. He said that there is a mind/emotion/bady connection. And that you can work from the bottom up from body to emotion to mind, which is what biofeedback does. Or that you can work from the mind down to emotions to the body, which is what CBT does. He didn't mention addressing emotions to influence mind and body.
I told him that while CBT worked beautifully for my OCD, it didn't seem to work for the mood stuff. I don't think he believed me. :( He said he saw no reason why it wouldn't work. I told him I had an easily triggered amygdala, and that once triggered all the sensible thoughts in the world didn't change the inevitable consequences. And he agreed that we would use visualization to calm my amygdala. But he kept asking me about themes of everything.
I think it's sort of silly to believe that he can identify my core beliefs, major themes, whatever, in life in eight to ten weekly sessions, much less get me to change them through CBT.
I have at least an hour of homework a day.
He sits too close and tries to force eye contact. Not verbally, but by consistently trying to catch my eye.
He also insulted my therapist, and I told him he had to stop that.
OK. The plus side. I still think there is a lot of potential in biofeedback if I can master it.
When I told him that when I gained control over my OCD through CBT, everything else went downhill, he understood at once (which I'm not sure that my therapist does still). He said that the OCD was masking the core emotional issues and that I needed to address that before I could get better. I see it as the OCD being a release valve that kept the rest of the stuff under control. But we both see a connection between the decrease in OCD symptomology and the increase in other symptoms.
He also zeroed in on a few pertinent points. But that could be due to my time in therapy, I was able to accurately convey the importance of those points. I don't know.
At any rate, I guess I can put up with him for eight to ten weeks to get the biofeedback. Maybe a few additional weeks if he'll let me do the EEG biofeedback.
Sigh. I was really looking forward to that. My brain seems so out of my control. There are days like today when I'm groggy and unfocused. Being able to do the ADD biofeedback exercises to increase my focus seems appealing. There are also my many anxious moments when knowing whether or not I was achieving the proper brainwaves with meditation would be helpful.
Sigh. It doesn't pay to look forward to anything.
Posted by DaisyM on November 4, 2003, at 11:06:39
In reply to Re: Finger crossing didn't work. :(((( (long), posted by Dinah on November 4, 2003, at 9:13:49
Oh Dinah,
There are things worth looking forward too...
Ok, some thoughts. You admitted to being nervous about seeing another therapist in the first place. Add to this insurance frustration (which I think is at least as destructive as road rage)and then disappointment about it not being "perfect" -- no EEG feedback, yet -- and I can see why you feel overall yuck about how it went. Plus, you had to defend your therapist, who you love and adore. Talk about too many hits at one time!
No matter how many times, or how long you've been in therapy it is always somewhat traumatic to reveal yourself to someone new. To give someone the list of "here is what is wrong with me" always reminds me of how terribly long that list is! And how far I still have to go.
So take a breath, let the bad stuff go and focus on the actual biofeedback techniques. THAT is what you are going for -- it is OK to disagree with this therapist, but you want to learn from him about one specific thing. If he is a strong CBT you won't be able to change him. We know that "one size does not fit all" -- but I don't think they do.
When my son started Biofeedback, he really liked the therapist who was doing it, and at the time, he was struggling with his own therapist because he was being pushed about underlying issues. He became very confused about who to tell what to and what to work on. We sorted it out for him like this: take what Biofeedback has to offer you -- calming the anxiety, getting rid of stomach aches, etc. and ignore everything else. Bring your symptoms to the sessions, not your issues. Save those for your therapist. That way he could focus on getting help around controlling his anxiety in different situations, which allowed him to not be so guarded during the biofeedback sessions.
I think all therapists in some way or another think they can "fix" a client, especially if they have a firm belief in a different technique.
Hang in there. The second session should be better. Did you ask about the skin/electrical feeling?
-D
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2003, at 11:38:42
In reply to Re: Finger crossing didn't work. :(((( (long) » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on November 4, 2003, at 11:06:39
>
> No matter how many times, or how long you've been in therapy it is always somewhat traumatic to reveal yourself to someone new.Yes, it is. I had actually gone over several scenarios of questions and answers and very few of the questions were what I had anticipated. That left me grasping for answers and getting more and more overwhelmed. I hadn't even anticipated the question about what I like to read. Since I didn't want to answer "psych books" I was left struggling to remember what else I read. Plus with him getting closer and pushing the eye contact, my back was trying to make it's way out of the back of the chair, and I was wriggling uncomfortably.
>
> So take a breath, let the bad stuff go and focus on the actual biofeedback techniques. THAT is what you are going for -- it is OK to disagree with this therapist, but you want to learn from him about one specific thing.That's what I'm trying to concentrate on, because I really really do want to learn the techniques. Although he said at the end something about (and I was already flooded by then so I'm not sure) biofeedback being like a scale that measured our progress, not the means of progress. Which left me wondering why I was bothering...
>
> When my son started Biofeedback, he really liked the therapist who was doing it, and at the time, he was struggling with his own therapist because he was being pushed about underlying issues. He became very confused about who to tell what to and what to work on. We sorted it out for him like this: take what Biofeedback has to offer you -- calming the anxiety, getting rid of stomach aches, etc. and ignore everything else. Bring your symptoms to the sessions, not your issues. Save those for your therapist. That way he could focus on getting help around controlling his anxiety in different situations, which allowed him to not be so guarded during the biofeedback sessions.
>
Yes, that sounds like a reasonable and sane-inducing solution. And it's what my therapist was suggesting and counting on. I wasn't expecting that this guy would have a different agenda. I'm just hoping I can hold the boundaries in the face of a really intense personality. But I do have a better understanding now of my therapists no two therapists rule.>
> Hang in there. The second session should be better. Did you ask about the skin/electrical feeling?
> -DOh, I forgot completely. I was really in flight mode by the end of the session. He did say that my baseline skin conductivity level was twice the normal range.
Thanks for your encouragement, Daisy. The whole thing does seem rather daunting at the moment. I've already fallen behind on his voluminous homework.
Although for the homework question "What was the most distressing thing to happen to you today" yesterday, I answered the biofeedback session.
Posted by fallsfall on November 5, 2003, at 0:47:03
In reply to Re: Finger crossing didn't work. :(((( (long), posted by Dinah on November 4, 2003, at 11:38:42
Dinah,
I'm sorry that it wasn't all that you hoped. But you think (and I agree) that there are positive things that can come out of this - and that is what you need to focus on.
Will your insurance pay 80% if you submit the claim from an out of Network provider?
DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Don't miss this chance. Practice Practice Practice!
Posted by Poet on November 5, 2003, at 9:41:01
In reply to Re: Finger crossing didn't work. :(((( (long), posted by Dinah on November 4, 2003, at 11:38:42
Hi Dinah,
> for the homework question "What was the most distressing thing to happen to you today" yesterday, I answered the biofeedback session.
I love your answer! It's perfect, you made it clear that it was difficult for you. Hopefully the therapist will ask why and then you can share your concerns.
I'm not surprised you were in flight mode, you were facing a new therapist on top of not getting the biofeedback you wanted.
Check out your insurance it may pay part of it or they may let you pay on a sliding scale like my therapist does. She's not covered by my insurance, because she's not a PhD (she's an MSW.)
The first session is always the worst, so the hard one is out of the way. Hopefully he will end the talk portion soon and get going on the biofeedback.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on November 5, 2003, at 14:11:31
In reply to Re: Finger crossing didn't work. :(((( (long) » Dinah, posted by Poet on November 5, 2003, at 9:41:01
I don't think the insurance looks good. It sounds like they might pay out of network rates, but that hardly seems worth the hassle, as it's ridiculously low.
My therapist thinks that since I don't like this guy, and he makes me anxious, that he might not be the right biofeedback therapist for me. I figure it doesn't matter if I don't like someone who I see pretty much as a teacher, and will only see for a couple of months. And maybe his scaring me will be good as it will give me some real life tension to use in the biofeedback.
My therapist *did* say, and I might follow through on it, that if it makes me feel uncomfortable for him to sit so close and try to grab my eye contact (I consider eye contact something that might be offered but should never be grabbed.), to just tell the guy that. As long as I'm prepared to answer questions about why. Why must there be a why?
This is the end of the thread.
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