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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 10, 2013, at 15:51:00
Hi,
Does anyone here have any information on whether SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine can be taken together? I'm considering trying SAM-e again for my chronic fatigue, or vegetative depression, and combining it with phosphatidylcholine to boost my cognition, but I'm not entirely sure that the combination would be safe. So, does anyone here have any information on this combo, or has anyone here taken the two supplements together?
Any responses would be appreciated.
Tomatheus
Posted by alexcanada on March 14, 2013, at 1:11:43
In reply to SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine, posted by Tomatheus on January 10, 2013, at 15:51:00
Sorry I have never taken them together. I last took Sam-e about a decade ago but am considering trying it again maybe this week. What has your experience been like with it?
I too have melancholic vegatative depression. Sometimes extremely severe but thankfully not monsterous right now. Currently I'm taking Resveratrol, ginkgo, ritalin low dose, valium low dose, and D3, along with 100mg gabapentin.
Resveratrol does aid with the fatigue I have noticed and helps add some slight positivity. Have you ever tried it?
Also would Sam-E be safe for me and my current meds?
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone here have any information on whether SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine can be taken together? I'm considering trying SAM-e again for my chronic fatigue, or vegetative depression, and combining it with phosphatidylcholine to boost my cognition, but I'm not entirely sure that the combination would be safe. So, does anyone here have any information on this combo, or has anyone here taken the two supplements together?
>
> Any responses would be appreciated.
>
> Tomatheus
Posted by Tomatheus on March 14, 2013, at 11:11:48
In reply to Re: SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine » Tomatheus, posted by alexcanada on March 14, 2013, at 1:11:43
Hi Alex,
My experiences with SAM-e have generally been positive, but I think that there's some uncertainty as to whether it may have contributed to the onset of my psychosis and cognitive impairment when I took it with tranylcypromine (generic Parnate) more than six years ago. Before the onset of my psychosis, I found SAM-e to be beneficial in the treatment of my chronic fatigue, or vegetative depression, in a significant way. It gave me more energy, allowed me to think more quickly, and reduced my excessive need for sleep, but the most pronounced of these benefits only lasted for three days before fading. I continued to notice some lower-level benefits from SAM-e on the symptoms that I mentioned when I took it with tranylcypromine, but three months into my trial with this combo is when I suddenly went into a psychotic state with cognitive impairment. I now take Abilify for my psychosis, and the vitmain D3 that I'm taking might be helping a bit with my cognition, but basically, the cognitive problems and psychosis are problems that I have not recovered from. Whether the tranylcypromine and SAM-e I took when I went into my cognitively impaired psychotic state caused the psychosis and cognitive problems is uncertain. At one point, I attributed the psychosis and cognitive problems to aminoguanidine that I took, thinking that I took the aminoguanidine right before the onset of the psychosis and cognitive impairment. However, after reading some old e-mails I had written when I was taking tranylcypromine and SAM-e (and aminoguanidine), I realized that I actually took the aminoguanidine about a month before my psychotic and cognitive symptoms surfaced, and so I concluded that the medication probably isn't what caused the symptoms to surface.
At any rate, I have tried SAM-e since the onset of my psychotic symptoms. Strangely enough, taking enteric-coated SAM-e tablets doesn't seem to have any effect on me any more, but crushing up the tablets and taking them sublingually (which tastes horrible) does. Now, it seems that I notice improvements in my energy level from taking sublingual SAM-e that last for about a week before the supplement seems to lose its effectiveness. So, I've actually responded to SAM-e differently after the onset of my psychosis than I used to before the onset of my psychosis in the sense that the duration of the benefits that I notice is different, but it's still basically the same effect of having more energy.
I'm really not sure how SAM-e might interact with the medications and supplements that you're taking, but my experience has taught me to be cautious with it. I certainly wouldn't take SAM-e with an MAOI anymore. I don't know if I'd take it with the medications and supplements that you're taking, either, as I think it would be hard to say what kinds of effects you might notice if you were to add SAM-e to your combo.
I have taken resveratrol, and I recall noticing some short-lived benefits on the symptoms of my chronic fatigue, or vegetative depression, but not staying on the supplement for very long. I think that resveratrol might be one of a few supplements that I'd benefit from revisiting.
Finally, I have a question for you. I noticed that you've said that you're taking vitamin D3, which is something that I just started taking and seem to be benefiting from (as far as my energy, concentration, and hypersomnia are concerned) at this point in time. Do you think that you've benefited at all from taking vitamin D3 so far? Have you ever had your vitamin D levels measured in a blood test? I did recently, and my level came back low.
Tomatheus
Posted by sigismund on March 14, 2013, at 22:21:59
In reply to Re: SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine » alexcanada, posted by Tomatheus on March 14, 2013, at 11:11:48
I took SAMe with Parnate and felt distinctly uncomfortable as a result.
Posted by Tomatheus on March 14, 2013, at 22:34:42
In reply to Re: SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine » Tomatheus, posted by sigismund on March 14, 2013, at 22:21:59
> I took SAMe with Parnate and felt distinctly uncomfortable as a result.
I'm sorry to hear that, Sigismund. For how long did you stay on that combo?
Tomatheus
Posted by sigismund on March 15, 2013, at 21:33:06
In reply to Re: SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine » sigismund, posted by Tomatheus on March 14, 2013, at 22:34:42
Not for long! I had to take refuge in a library and hide behind a newspaper. It was agitation and I was frightened of eye contact. From memory I was taking low dose Parnate (10 or 20) and added SAMe 400mg.
Posted by alexcanada on March 15, 2013, at 22:56:31
In reply to Re: SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine » alexcanada, posted by Tomatheus on March 14, 2013, at 11:11:48
Hi. Thanks for the response. I don't know yet what effect D3 is having on me. I only took it for a few days and I skipped it today thus far. I was def more alert a few hours after taking it but usually I feel more alertness late in the night away. It might be too soon to tell and especially since my mood can fluctuate quite a bit during the day anyway. Tonight I am quite tired without it so perhaps I will take one and see.
> Hi Alex,
>
> My experiences with SAM-e have generally been positive, but I think that there's some uncertainty as to whether it may have contributed to the onset of my psychosis and cognitive impairment when I took it with tranylcypromine (generic Parnate) more than six years ago. Before the onset of my psychosis, I found SAM-e to be beneficial in the treatment of my chronic fatigue, or vegetative depression, in a significant way. It gave me more energy, allowed me to think more quickly, and reduced my excessive need for sleep, but the most pronounced of these benefits only lasted for three days before fading. I continued to notice some lower-level benefits from SAM-e on the symptoms that I mentioned when I took it with tranylcypromine, but three months into my trial with this combo is when I suddenly went into a psychotic state with cognitive impairment. I now take Abilify for my psychosis, and the vitmain D3 that I'm taking might be helping a bit with my cognition, but basically, the cognitive problems and psychosis are problems that I have not recovered from. Whether the tranylcypromine and SAM-e I took when I went into my cognitively impaired psychotic state caused the psychosis and cognitive problems is uncertain. At one point, I attributed the psychosis and cognitive problems to aminoguanidine that I took, thinking that I took the aminoguanidine right before the onset of the psychosis and cognitive impairment. However, after reading some old e-mails I had written when I was taking tranylcypromine and SAM-e (and aminoguanidine), I realized that I actually took the aminoguanidine about a month before my psychotic and cognitive symptoms surfaced, and so I concluded that the medication probably isn't what caused the symptoms to surface.
>
> At any rate, I have tried SAM-e since the onset of my psychotic symptoms. Strangely enough, taking enteric-coated SAM-e tablets doesn't seem to have any effect on me any more, but crushing up the tablets and taking them sublingually (which tastes horrible) does. Now, it seems that I notice improvements in my energy level from taking sublingual SAM-e that last for about a week before the supplement seems to lose its effectiveness. So, I've actually responded to SAM-e differently after the onset of my psychosis than I used to before the onset of my psychosis in the sense that the duration of the benefits that I notice is different, but it's still basically the same effect of having more energy.
>
> I'm really not sure how SAM-e might interact with the medications and supplements that you're taking, but my experience has taught me to be cautious with it. I certainly wouldn't take SAM-e with an MAOI anymore. I don't know if I'd take it with the medications and supplements that you're taking, either, as I think it would be hard to say what kinds of effects you might notice if you were to add SAM-e to your combo.
>
> I have taken resveratrol, and I recall noticing some short-lived benefits on the symptoms of my chronic fatigue, or vegetative depression, but not staying on the supplement for very long. I think that resveratrol might be one of a few supplements that I'd benefit from revisiting.
>
> Finally, I have a question for you. I noticed that you've said that you're taking vitamin D3, which is something that I just started taking and seem to be benefiting from (as far as my energy, concentration, and hypersomnia are concerned) at this point in time. Do you think that you've benefited at all from taking vitamin D3 so far? Have you ever had your vitamin D levels measured in a blood test? I did recently, and my level came back low.
>
> Tomatheus
Posted by Tomatheus on March 15, 2013, at 22:56:50
In reply to Re: SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine » Tomatheus, posted by sigismund on March 15, 2013, at 21:33:06
Sigismund,
It certainly sounds like it was for the best that you didn't stay on SAM-e with Parnate for long. For most of the time I spent taking the combo, I was taking 20 mg of Parnate with 150 mg of SAM-e.
Tomatheus
Posted by alexcanada on March 17, 2013, at 3:04:17
In reply to Re: SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine, posted by alexcanada on March 15, 2013, at 22:56:31
I took D3 800ui chewable last night and hours later I had trouble sleeping. Mood appeared similar but I peaked about 5 hours later. Though Omega 3 1000mg 7:1 epa:dha, Resveratrol 225mg, and gabapentin + val + rit likely played a role. Insomnia was the only very noticable clear distinction I could make contributed to D3. Possibly more alertness.
> Hi. Thanks for the response. I don't know yet what effect D3 is having on me. I only took it for a few days and I skipped it today thus far. I was def more alert a few hours after taking it but usually I feel more alertness late in the night away. It might be too soon to tell and especially since my mood can fluctuate quite a bit during the day anyway. Tonight I am quite tired without it so perhaps I will take one and see.
>
> > Hi Alex,
> >
> > My experiences with SAM-e have generally been positive, but I think that there's some uncertainty as to whether it may have contributed to the onset of my psychosis and cognitive impairment when I took it with tranylcypromine (generic Parnate) more than six years ago. Before the onset of my psychosis, I found SAM-e to be beneficial in the treatment of my chronic fatigue, or vegetative depression, in a significant way. It gave me more energy, allowed me to think more quickly, and reduced my excessive need for sleep, but the most pronounced of these benefits only lasted for three days before fading. I continued to notice some lower-level benefits from SAM-e on the symptoms that I mentioned when I took it with tranylcypromine, but three months into my trial with this combo is when I suddenly went into a psychotic state with cognitive impairment. I now take Abilify for my psychosis, and the vitmain D3 that I'm taking might be helping a bit with my cognition, but basically, the cognitive problems and psychosis are problems that I have not recovered from. Whether the tranylcypromine and SAM-e I took when I went into my cognitively impaired psychotic state caused the psychosis and cognitive problems is uncertain. At one point, I attributed the psychosis and cognitive problems to aminoguanidine that I took, thinking that I took the aminoguanidine right before the onset of the psychosis and cognitive impairment. However, after reading some old e-mails I had written when I was taking tranylcypromine and SAM-e (and aminoguanidine), I realized that I actually took the aminoguanidine about a month before my psychotic and cognitive symptoms surfaced, and so I concluded that the medication probably isn't what caused the symptoms to surface.
> >
> > At any rate, I have tried SAM-e since the onset of my psychotic symptoms. Strangely enough, taking enteric-coated SAM-e tablets doesn't seem to have any effect on me any more, but crushing up the tablets and taking them sublingually (which tastes horrible) does. Now, it seems that I notice improvements in my energy level from taking sublingual SAM-e that last for about a week before the supplement seems to lose its effectiveness. So, I've actually responded to SAM-e differently after the onset of my psychosis than I used to before the onset of my psychosis in the sense that the duration of the benefits that I notice is different, but it's still basically the same effect of having more energy.
> >
> > I'm really not sure how SAM-e might interact with the medications and supplements that you're taking, but my experience has taught me to be cautious with it. I certainly wouldn't take SAM-e with an MAOI anymore. I don't know if I'd take it with the medications and supplements that you're taking, either, as I think it would be hard to say what kinds of effects you might notice if you were to add SAM-e to your combo.
> >
> > I have taken resveratrol, and I recall noticing some short-lived benefits on the symptoms of my chronic fatigue, or vegetative depression, but not staying on the supplement for very long. I think that resveratrol might be one of a few supplements that I'd benefit from revisiting.
> >
> > Finally, I have a question for you. I noticed that you've said that you're taking vitamin D3, which is something that I just started taking and seem to be benefiting from (as far as my energy, concentration, and hypersomnia are concerned) at this point in time. Do you think that you've benefited at all from taking vitamin D3 so far? Have you ever had your vitamin D levels measured in a blood test? I did recently, and my level came back low.
> >
> > Tomatheus
>
>
Posted by Tomatheus on March 17, 2013, at 10:52:15
In reply to D3 insomnia, posted by alexcanada on March 17, 2013, at 3:04:17
> I took D3 800ui chewable last night and hours later I had trouble sleeping. Mood appeared similar but I peaked about 5 hours later. Though Omega 3 1000mg 7:1 epa:dha, Resveratrol 225mg, and gabapentin + val + rit likely played a role. Insomnia was the only very noticable clear distinction I could make contributed to D3. Possibly more alertness.
Alex,
Thank you for letting me know about the problem that you had with insomnia that seems to be connected to taking vitamin D3. I'm sorry to hear about it. I can see how vitamin D3 might cause insomnia, because it's actually been effective at relieving my hypersomnia -- at least so far. Then again, I've taken countless supplements in the past that have helped to relieve my hypersomnia temporarily only to become ineffective after some time, so I can't say for sure that the D3 will keep exerting the same effect. At any rate, I think it's too bad that the only clear effect that the vitamin D3 you took seemed to have on you was producing insomnia. Vitamin D3, like most potential treatments, doesn't seem to be for everybody.
I hope that the rest of the treatments that you're utilizing are serving you well. I know that this board doesn't get as much traffic as it used to, but if you have any questions about any other treatments that you're considering trying, I'd recommend asking about it here. I think that there are at least a few of us on the board who will respond if we feel that we have the answers to your questions.
Tomatheus
This is the end of the thread.
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