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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 55. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 1:36:36
So Schisandra is the next adaptogen/herb I am trying out. Just took some today. So far I think I noticed more clarity and energy. I actually think it relieved my headache some. Of course this could all be placebo.
Nice thing about Schisandra is that it's lignands help to increase glutathione, assisting in liver protection/detoxification. I really need this considering the drugs and supplements that I take(and all the major binge drinking in the not so distant past).
I will be reporting back on my experience with Schisandra. In the meantime, here are a few links of discussions, studies, and reviews.
Sheesh, that's a lot of studies and articles. Sorry if I overwhelmingly posted too many. I just kept finding more and more and felt the need to link it.
Morgan
Posted by Hombre on August 1, 2010, at 3:46:22
In reply to Schisandra, posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 1:36:36
What form are you taking it in?
Posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 8:45:57
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Hombre on August 1, 2010, at 3:46:22
I got an alcohol based liquid tincture but I'm thinking about switching over to this other product as it may have added ingredients that help with absorption and efficacy. Plus, someone over at Imminst has been taking this product with great results and the effect seems to be increasing with time(that may happen with any decent schisandra product I realize).
http://www.iherb.com/Planetary-Herbals-Schisandra-Adrenal-Complex-710-mg-120-Tablets/1605?at=0
Hombre, have you ever taken schisandra?
Posted by Hombre on August 1, 2010, at 20:56:18
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 8:45:57
No, I haven't.
Since I can get raw herbs easily, I may look up a traditional formula and try making that. Or, I could go the modern route and get standardized extract powder and just take it like that. For the time being, I will probably buy raw herbs and add them to food as general tonics. I may also put together a heavy workout recovery formula to support my increased physical output. There are herbs that strengthen the muscles, sinew and bones as well as increase healing circulation and strengthen the digestion to help it extract nutrients and build blood and Qi. Now that I have the energy to work out, I really enjoy it, but let's be honest--the older we get the slower we recover.
I'm experimenting with ashwaghanda, eleuthero, tribulus, and a mix of saw palmetto, nettles and wild oats. I bought standardized extracts from Beyond a Century and made capsules. I also have longjack and rhodiola. I'm going more for stress resistance and optimizing hormones to fight the SEs of meds (esp. antipsychotics - these seem to want to turn a man into a mushy eunuch). I'd say the eleuthero definitely helps with energy, but the others are a toss up due to my lack of standardized testing methods. The Chinese formulas I take seem stronger. I may need to wash out and do it step by step.
Oh, I bought some jiaogulan tea (40 bags for like $4, not bad) and find it a tasty, bitter, ginseng like tonic.
Other things I want to try:- schisandra
- damiana
- shilajit
- mucuna puriens
- gingko
- gotu kola
- maca
- horse chestnut (circulatory)
- hawthorne (circulatory)
- milk thistle (rebuild/cleanse liver)
- horny goat weed (hate the name, a traditional Chinese herb)
- forskolin (I know, looks like 'foreskin' on 1st reading)
- holy basil (I'll probably grow it, drink tea)
I'd like to see if I can enhance mental function and further increase overall health. I am also preparing for the day when I may want to reduce or eventually try going without meds. In the meantime, I look forward to researching adaptogens in general and finding out what they have to offer.
Posted by Hombre on August 1, 2010, at 21:05:09
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Hombre on August 1, 2010, at 20:56:18
Also, I think every athlete should read the following books:
"A Tooth From The Tiger's Mouth"
Tom Bisio a seasoned internal martial artist, Chinese doctor, championship Filipino stick fighter. This book is the only one out there that really gives the athlete/martial artist how-to information on using acupressure, internal herbal formulas, and external salves and liniments to rehabilitate acute and long term musculo-skeletal injuries. A lot of the compounds he details can be purchased online. He also gives full instructions for how to build your own "dit da jiao" and especially something called "tendon lotion" to speed healing of chronic joint/soft tissue injuries. He also includes some basic qigong/neigong sets to strengthen and balance out the body. If you participate in any "hard" style work, you need to do "soft" style work for recovery and longevity.
"Pain Free" Pete Egoscue
How to heal chronic pain by balancing out the soft tissue of the body. Tons of rather unique exercises and routines for healing chronic injuries.
Best,
Hombre
Posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 21:26:56
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Hombre on August 1, 2010, at 20:56:18
Sounds like you are doing some good things there Hombre. I look forward to you sharing some of your experiences so I may learn of some things that may help me.
Posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 21:27:54
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Hombre on August 1, 2010, at 21:05:09
> Also, I think every athlete should read the following books:
>
> "A Tooth From The Tiger's Mouth"
>
> Tom Bisio a seasoned internal martial artist, Chinese doctor, championship Filipino stick fighter. This book is the only one out there that really gives the athlete/martial artist how-to information on using acupressure, internal herbal formulas, and external salves and liniments to rehabilitate acute and long term musculo-skeletal injuries. A lot of the compounds he details can be purchased online. He also gives full instructions for how to build your own "dit da jiao" and especially something called "tendon lotion" to speed healing of chronic joint/soft tissue injuries. He also includes some basic qigong/neigong sets to strengthen and balance out the body. If you participate in any "hard" style work, you need to do "soft" style work for recovery and longevity.
>
> "Pain Free" Pete Egoscue
>
> How to heal chronic pain by balancing out the soft tissue of the body. Tons of rather unique exercises and routines for healing chronic injuries.
>
> Best,
> HombreThanks man! That's great info!
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 3:47:06
In reply to Schisandra, posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 1:36:36
Here is what "Clinical Applications of Chinese and Ayurvedic Herbs" says are the medicinal uses
Acute and chronic liver diseases, in conjunction with other herbs
Chemical liver damage, poor liver function
To improve the detoxifying capacity of the liver.
To improve mental, physical and sensory performance.
Nervous system disorders.
Contraindicated in pregnancy except to facilitate childbirth.
It makes a nice tea. It's nice and tangy too.
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 3:52:57
In reply to Schisandra, posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 1:36:36
Also....
Small open clinical studies have shown benefit in induction of labour, mild spastic paralysis following a stroke, Parkinson's disease, cerebellar ataxia, Meniere's syndrome and psychosis.
The reference is to
"Pharmacology and Applications of Chinese Materia Medica vol1" by Chang and But.
Posted by morgan miller on August 6, 2010, at 0:08:46
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 3:52:57
Thanks for the info. on schisandra!
Posted by morgan miller on August 12, 2010, at 11:02:36
In reply to Re: Schisandra » sigismund, posted by morgan miller on August 6, 2010, at 0:08:46
Well, so far I think Schisandra is really making a difference in the way I feel-a smooth energy boost, subtle mood boost, more alert, and increase in stamina/endurance. I really don't think this is placebo as most everyone I've communicated with has reported nothing but positive things to say about their experience with Schisadra.
Anyone looking for an all around feel good herb that may also help maintain liver health(we all need that with the medications we are taking), I think Shisandra may be a good addition to your regimen. So far, Holy Basil and Shisandra are on the top of my list for feel good herbs. Not crazy about Ashwagandha, I feel like it's better for night time before sleep, rather than a during the day feel good energizing herb.
Hey Lao, you might want to check out a few websites since you are into supplements and researching supplements-mindandmuscle.net and imminst.org
Posted by Hombre on August 12, 2010, at 19:48:30
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by morgan miller on August 12, 2010, at 11:02:36
Are you still taking the Planetary Herbals formula?
I looked into it a bit more and it has a lot of herbs that tonify the kidneys, liver and to some extent the lungs and spleen.
I believe that a lot of psyche drugs tax the TCM kidneys and lead to a loss of energy, dry mouth, night sweats, insomnia, anxiety, lack of will/drive and libido. This may have something to do with the adrenals and other hormonal systems.
Also, I feel that psyche drugs can slow down metabolism and cause bloating and edema. A lot of the kidney and spleen tonifying herbs are diuretics to an extent, getting rid of excess moisture that causes poor digestion and a resulting lack of energy.
The liver is important because it supposedly draws from the kidneys for its energy. Anything that affects the kidneys will affect the liver and vice versa. The liver is what gives us our ability to express ourselves and do long term planning. It is the largest and possibly the most complex of the organ systems in TCM and western medicine.
Judging from what you've shared about your physical and mental/emotional symptoms, this is probably a pretty good formula to stick with. Schisandra is also supposed to calm the mind, as you know. You may also look into Planetary's Rehmannia and Ginseng formulas, but you'd probably be better served by a formula that is not too "hot" as it could burn you out. I've had that happen to me recently, with a weird back injury and sudden lack of energy. I had to switch to a "cooler" formula (I believe called Rehmannia Vitalizer by PH) that builds up the kidney and liver yin - the oil in our lamp. The back pain went away and my energy came back a couple of days after switching formulas.
Interesting stuff these herbs.
Posted by Hombre on August 12, 2010, at 20:08:03
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by morgan miller on August 12, 2010, at 11:02:36
I also wanted to add that dairy and cold, raw foods can tax the spleen and lead to excessive "dampness" and "phlegm", which can lead to depression and lack of energy.
When I first moved to Asia I met with an American who is a Chinese doctor and kung fu expert. I asked him what common health problems Westerners faced when moving to Asia, and he said digestive complaints were common. Upon having these problems, people would take yogurt thinking the probiotics would fix things, but it ended up causing more dampness, something that was apt to happen anyway living in a hot, humid tropical climate.
While yogurt and raw fruits and veggies are considered healthy foods on one hand, they may not be appropriate for all people depending on their own energetic tendencies. The habit of drinking iced water and beverages and eating big salads is a hard one to break, but once you get used to how it can help your energy it doesn't matter so much.
I just wanted to mention this because I will probably not be on babble anymore for time time being, moving on to the next phase of recovery and job hunting.
Best of luck.
Posted by sigismund on August 12, 2010, at 21:38:02
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Hombre on August 12, 2010, at 19:48:30
Rehmannia is particulary interesting, and the cured stuff is very nice to eat.
If you tick the no message box by mistake your message vanishes.
I had said that ashwaganda was no good for sleep for me because I would wake at 1am and stay that way for the night.
Felt too dopaminergic and was probably due to the combination of that with the agomelatine I take.I don't know if Holy Basil can aggravate insomnia? I'm wondering.
Schizandra is a herb I've been meaning to try for years.
I must get some of that Noni from Pure Bulk.
Posted by morgan miller on August 12, 2010, at 22:36:09
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Hombre on August 12, 2010, at 20:08:03
Hey Hombre,
Yes I'm taking the Planetary Herbals Schisandra Adrenal Complex. It does seem like a nice formula.
Thanks for informing me about what some of the other herbs in the complex are good for. I think it's a keeper.
Jarrow's Wellnes Optimizer is another nice formulation that I just bought and I'm pretty sure I've noticed an immediate positive mood boost, sense of well being, and smooth energy boost. I think this formula could be one in which the benefits may build over time, especially the immune boosting benefits. I really like the ingredients in it. Check it out.
So I guess you are feeling better these days. We are going to miss you here, Hombre. Take care, good luck, and check back in some time in the future.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on August 12, 2010, at 22:39:25
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by sigismund on August 12, 2010, at 21:38:02
Sigismund, Holy basil is not likely to aggravate insomnia, especially if taken in the morning and afternoon. Some do take holy basil at night to help with sleep. It can work as an adaptogen so it may help to calm when the body needs to rest. I love my Holy Basil. I love my Schisandra too!
Morgan
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 23, 2010, at 15:33:18
In reply to Re: Schisandra » sigismund, posted by morgan miller on August 12, 2010, at 22:39:25
Hi Morgan! What's up? How is the schisandra working for you? Any positive benefits yet? If so, how does it make you feel?
Lao
Posted by morgan miller on August 24, 2010, at 13:35:07
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Lao Tzu on August 23, 2010, at 15:33:18
Hey brotha!
So far so good on Schisandra. I decided to cut my dose in half to see what happens. I definitely have more energy and feel better. It's a very nice smooth and subtle effect.
I have also become somewhat obsessed with medicinal mushrooms. I have noticed a significant improvement in the way I feel after taking Cordyceps. I feel that I have more energy and can breath better. I also feel there has been a positive effect on mood, this may be a result of simply feeling better. I also added Reishi for it's calming effects. My next addition to my mushroom regimen will be Chaga for inflammation.
Check this video out with one of the leading experts in medicinal mushrooms:
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/258
Also if you do a pubmed search you will find a slew of studies on these mushrooms and positive effects including cancer fighting properties.
I think you would be especially interested in Cordyceps for it's energy/stamina boosting effects and it's potential ability to fight and prevent lung cancer.
I have seen improvements lately, but I am still struggling in many ways. The muskuloskeletal issues combined with physiological issues are still making it very difficult for me to get back to living the way I was just a few years ago.
How are you? Hope all is well!
Morgan
Posted by sigismund on August 27, 2010, at 21:33:39
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by morgan miller on August 24, 2010, at 13:35:07
>I have noticed a significant improvement in the way I feel after taking Cordyceps. I feel that I have more energy and can breath better. I also feel there has been a positive effect on mood, this may be a result of simply feeling better.
Same here, except for the fact that it exacerbated my insomnia (which seems to require very little and anyway for all I know the cordyceps is innocent).
>I also added Reishi for it's calming effects. My next addition to my mushroom regimen will be Chaga for inflammation.
Reishi is said to be one of the few herbs which lowers the allergy threshold (I suppose you might say)by lowering IgE. You find it calming?
I've never heard of Chaga. Good stuff?
Posted by morgan miller on August 27, 2010, at 22:29:48
In reply to Cordyceps, Reishi and Chaga » morgan miller, posted by sigismund on August 27, 2010, at 21:33:39
Don't know if I find Reishi calming. I'm taking so much crap, including lithium, it's really hard to tell right now. I'm taking it for general well being and overall health. I'm interested in Chaga mainly for it's potential ant-inflammatory actions, and hopefully other benefits-mainly strengthened immunity, which it appears most of the mushrooms do as a result of beta-glucans.
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 31, 2010, at 14:38:27
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by morgan miller on August 24, 2010, at 13:35:07
Hey Morgan! I'm fine. How are you doing? I've been off babble for a few days. Just didn't feel like it, I guess. Cordyceps? That's interesting. Might just try that one. I might try the Schisandra as well. I've been trying Ginkgo and Gotu Kola. I don't like either one of them. They make me feel worse. So I'm back on the Holy Basil. It does help me emotionally. I just didn't realize it until I stopped taking it. And it doesn't make my depression worse. I really have to be careful what I take. 9 times out of 10, herbs just don't work for me. Holy Basil is okay, though. I have the same problem with amino acids. They just don't help me at all. Psychosis is really difficult to treat. You become extremely sensitive to every supplement you take, and most times they don't work. But I'm glad you're feeling better. You really do give me some good ideas. I can't always rely on the internet for good ideas because frankly, I think they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Getting good ideas from friends is the best way, I think. Keep getting well. Have you gotten all your medical tests done yet? Any results yet?
See ya!
Lao
Posted by sigismund on August 31, 2010, at 20:49:46
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Lao Tzu on August 31, 2010, at 14:38:27
>Holy Basil is okay, though
Do you find it stimulating?
No insomnia?
Posted by sigismund on August 31, 2010, at 20:51:01
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Lao Tzu on August 31, 2010, at 14:38:27
It may be a coincidence, but I have been sleeping a little less badly since I started Schizandra.
Posted by morgan miller on August 31, 2010, at 22:07:18
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by sigismund on August 31, 2010, at 20:51:01
> It may be a coincidence, but I have been sleeping a little less badly since I started Schizandra.
It is an adaptogen. So maybe it is helping you during the day giving you more energy and keeping you alert, then at night calming you allowing your body to relax better. Do you have more energy on schizandra? If you do, it may be that you are having more productive days and that is translating to more restful sleep.
I do not think Holy Basil is at all stimulating. It can help the adrenals get going, but it mostly has a calming stabilizing effect. In the right doses, it can be a nice addition to your mood stabilizing and stress coping regimen.
Posted by morgan miller on August 31, 2010, at 22:18:26
In reply to Re: Schisandra, posted by Lao Tzu on August 31, 2010, at 14:38:27
Hey brotha how's it going?!
Good to hear a little holy basil still helps. I just added it back in to my regimen. I won't take it everyday, maybe 4 to 5 days a week when I think I really can benefit from it. Yeah, it is really difficult to figure out exactly what an herb is doing and if it is worth taking. Sometimes we have to go on and off it to come to the right conclusion.
I have gotten most tests back and with the exception of a little nerve damage, everything looks pretty good so far. I will be moving on from the neurologist to a physiatrist, rheumatologist, and lyme disease specialist. I need to make sure I cover all the bases. The neurologist is still waiting on some test results, and the people at radiology still need to evaluate my brain MRI. I really want to get one of those scans that shows brain activity. We will see if my father goes for that. A good friend thinks I should go to the Mayo Clinic if things continue and none of the other doctors have any answers.
I had a few very rough last few days. I don't know what is going on with me. It just hits me out of nowhere and I have to force myself to function normally. Who knows, maybe it all comes down to emotional issues, faulty brain chemistry, and the lack of efficacy with the medications I'm on.
Great to hear from you as always. We all need a break from babble every once in a while. How have you been feeling in general? Have you thought any more about cutting down on the cigarettes and starting exercising more? : )
Morgan
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