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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kiwiredbeach on November 17, 2006, at 5:56:24
How does fish oil effect neurotransmitters, im taking a high epa fish oil which seems to work really well for depression, but has increased my anxiety a notch. How does epa effect norepinephrine and serotonin or does it work in a completly different way to effect depression and anxiety
Posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 6:25:32
In reply to Fish oil and neurotransmitters, posted by kiwiredbeach on November 17, 2006, at 5:56:24
> How does fish oil effect neurotransmitters, im taking a high epa fish oil which seems to work really well for depression, but has increased my anxiety a notch. How does epa effect norepinephrine and serotonin or does it work in a completly different way to effect depression and anxiety
Hi
Thanks for the welcome! There's a whole lot of poor around about fish oil. It really has no DIRECt effects on neurotransmitters. There is some evidence that it may stabilise the nerve membranes but i tell you if you had unstable nerve mebranes you would no all about it and depression would be the last of your worriies.
The main beneficial effect of EPA for depression arises (in my opinion - supported by years of research) due to it can inhibit to a certain extent the conversion of GLA to Arachidonic acid, which the body makes evil and bad inflammatory prostaglandins of the series 2 via COX2. PGE2's make you feel BAD, they are the sickness hormones and they lay you down and make you rest.
This effect is not complete though, and unless you are inhibiting COX2 you will not stop the aberrant inflammation that is causing the depression.
EPA also is converted to series 3 prostaglandins that have many health benefits (they are good guys. They attract oxygen for energy transfer and also make the adrenals work better - hence your slightly increased anxiety.
To really feel good you need to also increase the GLA (evening primrose oil, borage) so that the body has the raw ingredients it needs for series 1 Prostaglandings. I believe it is these ones that actually make the sensation of "I am well". If you only do the PGE2 you will feel more like "I'm not depressed as I was".
When the body is well it rewards you with increased serotonin etc, to make you get up and go!
Hope that helps somewhat.
Posted by kiwiredbeach on November 17, 2006, at 7:55:40
In reply to Re: Fish oil and neurotransmitters, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 6:25:32
Thanks aeon very interesting reply....you have given me something to think about, were do you get Quercetin ? from health food shop I imagine. I have had slight eczema, and asthma (in the family) and my father also suffers bad arthritis at a older age. He took vioxx for great success untill they took it away. Are these signs of cox2 behaviour.
Cheers kiwi
PS great to have you here Aeon> > How does fish oil effect neurotransmitters, im taking a high epa fish oil which seems to work really well for depression, but has increased my anxiety a notch. How does epa effect norepinephrine and serotonin or does it work in a completly different way to effect depression and anxiety
>
> Hi
>
> Thanks for the welcome! There's a whole lot of poor around about fish oil. It really has no DIRECt effects on neurotransmitters. There is some evidence that it may stabilise the nerve membranes but i tell you if you had unstable nerve mebranes you would no all about it and depression would be the last of your worriies.
>
> The main beneficial effect of EPA for depression arises (in my opinion - supported by years of research) due to it can inhibit to a certain extent the conversion of GLA to Arachidonic acid, which the body makes evil and bad inflammatory prostaglandins of the series 2 via COX2. PGE2's make you feel BAD, they are the sickness hormones and they lay you down and make you rest.
>
> This effect is not complete though, and unless you are inhibiting COX2 you will not stop the aberrant inflammation that is causing the depression.
>
> EPA also is converted to series 3 prostaglandins that have many health benefits (they are good guys. They attract oxygen for energy transfer and also make the adrenals work better - hence your slightly increased anxiety.
>
> To really feel good you need to also increase the GLA (evening primrose oil, borage) so that the body has the raw ingredients it needs for series 1 Prostaglandings. I believe it is these ones that actually make the sensation of "I am well". If you only do the PGE2 you will feel more like "I'm not depressed as I was".
>
> When the body is well it rewards you with increased serotonin etc, to make you get up and go!
>
> Hope that helps somewhat.
>
>
Posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 8:10:06
In reply to Re: Fish oil and neurotransmitters, posted by kiwiredbeach on November 17, 2006, at 7:55:40
Yes definitely signs of inflammation. Most of these diseases we suffer from in the modern worls are inflammatory in nature because we have SCREWED with the natural balance of oils. Quercetin is being studied for asthma. I notice it stabilises blood pressure (when I was taking parnate without it i was near to passing out twenty times a day).
Arhtritis is definetely helped by it.
However the amounts you need to take are DOUBLE what is written on the bottle.
Cheers
aeon
PS I used to holiday at red beach in NZ when I was a kid. Is Dad's pies still there? ... Yummmmm!
Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2006, at 8:53:36
In reply to Re: Fish oil and neurotransmitters, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 8:10:06
There are a number of studies that show that omega-3 polyunsaturates are correlated with brain content of serotonin and dopamine.
http://biopsychiatry.com/unsatfatdop.html
"There is evidence suggesting that omega-3 has an effect on human CSF serotonin metabolites"
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/159/3/477
"High cerebrospinal fluid concentrations of 5-hydroxy-indoleacetic acid, a metabolite of serotonin and an indicator of brain serotonin turnover, have been shown to be associated with high plasma concentrations of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids among healthy subjects"http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/52/4/529
"Animal studies have shown that those deprived of omega-3 fatty acids over two generations have offspring who cannot release dopamine and serotonin so effectively."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1924153,00.html
"A pretty good assumption is that serotonin levels increased in the brain's frontal cortex, as has already been demonstrated in animal experiments."
http://www.zonelabsinc.com/Omega3FishOilsDietandDepression.page
"a group in Canada showed that giving omega-3 supplements to piglets doubled the levels of molecules called serotonin and dopamine in the frontal cortexes of the animals' brains."
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5407595
Since essential fatty acid levels predict CSF 5-HIAA levels, and cholesterol does not,11,12 cholesterol levels may be a surrogate marker for changes in essential fatty acids.
http://omega-research.com/researchview.php?ID=25&catid=7
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2006, at 8:54:41
In reply to Re: Fish oil and neurotransmitters, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 8:10:06
Be cautious with combining parnate and quercetin, as the latter is a COMT and MAO-A inhibitor.
Linkadge
Posted by kiwiredbeach on November 17, 2006, at 9:15:10
In reply to Re: Fish oil and neurotransmitters, posted by linkadge on November 17, 2006, at 8:53:36
Thankyou linkadge for a very interesting article, every link was of great interest. Even though im having a slight increase in anxiety, ill stick to the high epa fish oil. Its done wonders to my depression which i would rate as only 2 out of 10. A big improvement from a week ago.
Cheers Kiwiredbeach
Posted by kiwiredbeach on November 17, 2006, at 9:16:41
In reply to Re: Fish oil and neurotransmitters, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 8:10:06
Gee someone who knows red beach. Are you a kiwi?? I dont know about dads pies any more...ive lived in england for the last 5 years.
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