![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 3:11:57
I am deep in the hole with a persistent, awful depression. I've read this board on and off for years and always come away with my head spinning. I've also been very grateful for the help and information that's to be had here. Following some of your suggestions over the years, I've found taurine to be helpful for calming down an agitated depression, and have also taken tryptophan to decent results. I've got a mean depression though, so tryptophan never feels like enough. I am taking 5-HTP right now, though it's pooped out on me, and have ordered some of the pharmaceutical-grade stuff to try this week. 5-HTP had a great effect for the fist week or so, so I'm hoping getting the better stuff might make a difference.
I am currently on Lamictal for bipolar II, depressed all day, blah. I've also got an ADD diagnosis. In the past I've taken piracetam to clear the mental fog and found that it really helped my mood. Hydergine, if I recall, is really expensive but I've heard the two work best together and I wonder if that might be worth trying (if I can find Hydergine for cheap enough). One of my persistent troubles is cognitive impairment and loss of creativity. This is why I'm doing everything I can to avoid an SSRI.
Right now, in addition to Lamictal 400 mg, I take 5-HTP w/ b6 (no dose really makes a noticeable difference anymore anyway, bleh) and a multi-vitamin. I feel like I can't afford to be taking 10-plus supplements a day, and sometimes reading the info here I feel like I should be supplementing like crazy.
Sometimes I take a B complex, too.
I hope this wasn't terribly long-winded, I'm exhausted and sluggish and, well, depressed.
Thank you!
Posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 3:15:45
In reply to so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 3:11:57
I am also taking 1-2g of EPA-weighted fish oil a day (Country Life Omega Mood, good EPA-DHA ratio) and have tyrosine and taurine sitting in the cabinet but don't really take those consistently.
> I am deep in the hole with a persistent, awful depression. I've read this board on and off for years and always come away with my head spinning. I've also been very grateful for the help and information that's to be had here. Following some of your suggestions over the years, I've found taurine to be helpful for calming down an agitated depression, and have also taken tryptophan to decent results. I've got a mean depression though, so tryptophan never feels like enough. I am taking 5-HTP right now, though it's pooped out on me, and have ordered some of the pharmaceutical-grade stuff to try this week. 5-HTP had a great effect for the fist week or so, so I'm hoping getting the better stuff might make a difference.
>
> I am currently on Lamictal for bipolar II, depressed all day, blah. I've also got an ADD diagnosis. In the past I've taken piracetam to clear the mental fog and found that it really helped my mood. Hydergine, if I recall, is really expensive but I've heard the two work best together and I wonder if that might be worth trying (if I can find Hydergine for cheap enough). One of my persistent troubles is cognitive impairment and loss of creativity. This is why I'm doing everything I can to avoid an SSRI.
>
> Right now, in addition to Lamictal 400 mg, I take 5-HTP w/ b6 (no dose really makes a noticeable difference anymore anyway, bleh) and a multi-vitamin. I feel like I can't afford to be taking 10-plus supplements a day, and sometimes reading the info here I feel like I should be supplementing like crazy.
>
> Sometimes I take a B complex, too.
>
> I hope this wasn't terribly long-winded, I'm exhausted and sluggish and, well, depressed.
>
> Thank you!
Posted by dessbee on June 13, 2006, at 4:50:12
In reply to so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 3:11:57
If you are bipolar you should take 4 gram of fish oil (600 mg EPA/DHA). Please be aware that too high intake might cause insomnia. Fish oil is also beneficial for ADD.
Depression can be treated with seroctin (700 mg) or st john wort (600 mg).
Most mental disorders benefits from 20 mg of zinc.
I do not recommend high intake of B-vitamins. High intake of folic acid can make you more irritable and worsen your ADD/depression. Obviously those supplements are not working for you.
Please notify your doctor if you want to try seroctin/SJW
Posted by Declan on June 13, 2006, at 17:08:39
In reply to Re: so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by dessbee on June 13, 2006, at 4:50:12
IME, Hydergine and piracetam is hugely synergystic, needing a small fraction of what you would take alone. Piracetam didn't do much for my mood at all, but Hydergine did Isn't it supposed to somewhat modulate (if that's the right word? Maybe I mean increase? I forget)seratonin and dopamine and decrease noradrenaline, or something eqiuvalent. If insomnia wasn't an issue I'd take lots of it. Can you get generic Hydergine any more? I couldn't find it when I last looked.
Declan
Posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 17:29:15
In reply to Re: so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by Declan on June 13, 2006, at 17:08:39
I don't remember being able to find generic hydergine, and I remember it being very expensive. Piracetam can be had for so cheap that I just gave in to using it alone. I'd really like to try hydergine again.
I'm on Lamictal, which already makes me sun-sensitive, so I've ruled out SJW. I'm very pale and burn easily.
I ordered pharmaceutical-grade 5-HTP last night and then felt so depressed today that I asked for samples of Lexapro. I am very torn as to whether I should see if the 5-HTP works. I am in really bad shape and feel like I need major antidepressant action right away, but I would prefer to have a boost from something that isn't a crapshoot, something that isn't likely to make me apathetic, fat, and flat.
Have you found seroctin to be better than 5-HTP? Are either of those effective for severe depression? I found 5-HTP to be incredibly helpful for about 4 days, something like that. I was using a health-store brand and ordered the better grade last night, but today, god, I just felt like I needed something major.
Do I need more zinc than the typical multivitamin contains?
And naturally I'm not going to take the 5-HTP with Lexapro (if I start Lexapro). Unless others here have had success with a super low dose of 5-HTP and a super low dose of Lexapro (a low dose SSRI to begin with).
I'm waiting on the fish oil to arrive (the kind I get is insanely expensive at a brick-and-mortar store) but will try a higher dose.. I've read elsewhere that 1g-2g is the optimal dose. Have you had greater success with it at 4g?
Thank you all for your help! I've been depressed for years and it just gets worse and worse.
I'm diagnosed BPII, so I'm not concerned about mania or anything like that. When I get "up" I just get angry and mean. Hip hip hooray.
Posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 17:40:14
In reply to Re: so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 17:29:15
or are the mechanisms of hydergine and piracetam not well-enough known to say? Serotonin syndrome is not in my immediate plans.
Posted by Declan on June 13, 2006, at 17:44:58
In reply to Re: so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 17:29:15
Geez, I dunno. Never been terribly successful with treating depression myself.
But I think Seroctin is better than 5htp. More calming.
Tianeptine's working well for me. The first AD that has helped.
How is your sleep?
The SSRI effect is helpful?
Declan
Posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 17:58:58
In reply to Re: so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by Declan on June 13, 2006, at 17:44:58
I have an insomnia side-effect from Lamictal: tired, can't get to sleep. I have samples of Seroquel but I'm very hesitant to go that route. Diabetes? Lethargy? Uh-uh, just because it has potentially positive mood effects doesn't mean I'm ready to put myself in the running for diabetes II.
I'm not currently on an SSRI. I got some samples of Lexapro today and am mulling it over. I am basically incapacitated by depression. I can't get control of my life in any way. I'm the worst kind of mess. I don't know if non-pharmaceutical treatments are strong enough, but I am really upset by the thought of dealing with all the deadening and death of creativity that seems to come with SSRIs.
Posted by Declan on June 13, 2006, at 18:30:20
In reply to Re: so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 17:58:58
What does Lamictal do for or to you? I dunno anything about mood stabilizers (if that's what it is).
Posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 18:41:57
In reply to Re: so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by Declan on June 13, 2006, at 18:30:20
> What does Lamictal do for or to you? I dunno anything about mood stabilizers (if that's what it is).
It's a mood stabilizer with antidepressant properties, and psychiatrists are prescribing it more and more for unipolar depression. The guy I'm seeing actually likes to try it first with his depressed patients rather than going the SSRI route. It's an energizing mood stabilizer and is best for people with bipolar II, largely depressed people like myself. It can launch bipolar I-diagnosed people into hypomania/mania.
It's often augmented with antidepressants. The combinations I see most often while endlessly, desperately researching on the internet are Lamictal + Wellbutrin or Lamictal + Lexapro. Many bp2-diagnosed people don't lift out of depression without an added antidepressant, but it smooths out the rockiness and keeps the antidepressant from having an adverse effect, either triggering anger/agitation or happy hypomania, which I wouldn't mind experiencing. Unfortunately I don't tend to swing that way. I just get pissed.
Like many mood stabilizers, nobody is sure of the exact mechanisms of this stuff. It invokes glutamate, which I believe piracetam inhibits (don't know if I'm right on this), so who knows about that combo. The best I've felt over the past few years was with a combo of 75 mg Lamictal (while titrating to a therapeutic dose), adderall, and piracetam.
I should look up the mechanisms of lamictal and actually learn about the stuff, sheesh.
It has a fairly small amount of side effects. It's given me horrendous acne, though, which isn't helping my depression.
Posted by Declan on June 13, 2006, at 18:53:32
In reply to Re: so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 18:41:57
This is rather old but it may be of interest.
'Piracetam has been found to act as a muscarenic agonist that increases the sensitivity of the muscarenic cholinergic receptors, possibly because of its stimulation of phospholipid synthesis.'
and
'Although piracetam does not increase neurotransmitter synthesis in the brain, it does stimulate biogenic monoamine activity, thus causing an overall decrease in the turnover of central monoamines.'
Posted by JLx on June 14, 2006, at 12:02:10
In reply to so many things to try, so lost! suggestions?, posted by zefdie on June 13, 2006, at 3:11:57
> I am deep in the hole with a persistent, awful depression. I've read this board on and off for years and always come away with my head spinning. I've also been very grateful for the help and information that's to be had here. Following some of your suggestions over the years, I've found taurine to be helpful for calming down an agitated depression, and have also taken tryptophan to decent results. I've got a mean depression though, so tryptophan never feels like enough. I am taking 5-HTP right now, though it's pooped out on me, and have ordered some of the pharmaceutical-grade stuff to try this week. 5-HTP had a great effect for the fist week or so, so I'm hoping getting the better stuff might make a difference.
>
> I am currently on Lamictal for bipolar II, depressed all day, blah. I've also got an ADD diagnosis. In the past I've taken piracetam to clear the mental fog and found that it really helped my mood. Hydergine, if I recall, is really expensive but I've heard the two work best together and I wonder if that might be worth trying (if I can find Hydergine for cheap enough). One of my persistent troubles is cognitive impairment and loss of creativity. This is why I'm doing everything I can to avoid an SSRI.
>
> Right now, in addition to Lamictal 400 mg, I take 5-HTP w/ b6 (no dose really makes a noticeable difference anymore anyway, bleh) and a multi-vitamin. I feel like I can't afford to be taking 10-plus supplements a day, and sometimes reading the info here I feel like I should be supplementing like crazy.
>
> Sometimes I take a B complex, too.
>
> I hope this wasn't terribly long-winded, I'm exhausted and sluggish and, well, depressed.
>
> Thank you!I've found these brain tests from the Amen Clinic to be interesting and helpful in terms of the recommendations Dr. Amen then also makes re the different brain problem areas:
http://amenclinics.com/ac/tests/
http://www.amenclinic.com/bp/articles.php?articleID=10
His recommendations jibe with my own experience.
But in general, the single most helpful supplement for me is magnesium. When I started taking it, I quit all meds and haven't looked back. I was alerted to magnesium's great potential by this site: "Rapid Recovery From Depression Using Magnesium Treatment" by George Eby http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html
JL
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.