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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tom Twilight on November 16, 2005, at 11:47:33
Hey everyone
I'm currently on 60mg of Marplan and have been suffering with insomnia for months.
There are lots of alternative treatments that are supposed to help for insomnia, but I'm wondering which ones are actually effective.
I've tried Melatonin which helps somewhat, but not dramaticly
Magnesium Chelate and Calcium Chelate seem to make my insomnia worse, taken alone or together.
Are there any herbs that are good for insomnia, I've heard Bacopa can help.....
Posted by Buckeye Fan on November 16, 2005, at 12:04:57
In reply to Supplements and Herbs for Insomnia?, posted by Tom Twilight on November 16, 2005, at 11:47:33
Double Strength Sleepytime Tea along with 2 benadryl caplets help me.
BF
Posted by blueberry on November 16, 2005, at 18:05:27
In reply to Supplements and Herbs for Insomnia?, posted by Tom Twilight on November 16, 2005, at 11:47:33
Valerian is supposed be fairly good...but it takes a couple weeks for it to work. With any herbs or supplements though, it's hit or miss, and you have no idea whether it is safe or not mixed with marplan.
I think you will get best results though with another med instead of herbs. Just more reliable to test and use. Very low dose seroquel or zyprexa. Very low dose elavil or doxepin. They're safe with your marplan, especially at low doses. And you'll sleep awesome.
Posted by Tom Twilight on November 18, 2005, at 12:47:47
In reply to Re: Supplements and Herbs for Insomnia?, posted by blueberry on November 16, 2005, at 18:05:27
Thanks for the responses guys
I'm asking specificly about alternative supplements
I quickly build up tollerance to sleep meds such as TCAs, and I have difficulty getting hold or Seroquell and Zyprexa.
There are other options but I was mainly thinking of alternative stuffThats why I was asking on this board!
P.S. Someone said Valerian had a delayed effect, it has an imedeate effect doesn't it?
Posted by Declan on November 20, 2005, at 14:32:06
In reply to Re: Supplements and Herbs for Insomnia?, posted by Tom Twilight on November 18, 2005, at 12:47:47
Hi Tom
I'm reactive, there's only so many herbs I can take (I try). This is my 2 bob's worth:
Valerian's no good for depressives.
Passionflower I react to.
Skullcap is the best western herb for insomnia.
Zizyphus is mild but good, if you take enough.
(Like, they're not terribly effective, but compare to mirtazepine. Mirtazepine is allright while you're asleep, but awful for half the next day.)I have this problem too. I'm going to assume excitotoxicity and (again) try magnesium, glycine and taurine along with the herbs.
Could Seroquel be as awful as mirtazepine? I'm not in a hurry to try it, it might be worse.
(Yeah, valerian has an immediate effect, but I don't see it as an improvement on a benzo)
Declan
Posted by tealady on November 20, 2005, at 15:47:30
In reply to Re: Supplements and Herbs for Insomnia? » Tom Twilight, posted by Declan on November 20, 2005, at 14:32:06
>
> I have this problem too. I'm going to assume excitotoxicity and (again) try magnesium, glycine and taurine along with the herbs.
>>
> DeclanHi Declan,
I'm looking for a good magnesium glycinate to try. Do you use one and if so what?
I'm in Oz too.. but I'm going to place yearly iherb order sometime (probably after summer so heat doesn't affect supps too much sitting at customs for the couple of weeks or so).
So far I think I like magnesium taurinate the best, but I dont think I need that much of the taurinate..and I'd like to try some glycinate.
I'm just judging this by one of fav supps which has some in
http://www.iherb.com/p5p1.htmlonly 25mg :)
I know its he enteric coated P5P part as well :)
MgO always worked for me .. at least I notice the diff.. go figure. I know it doesnt dissolve well in water. Not that sure about stomach and intestines though.Not sure if I like the Mag Citrate much.. maybe too much of the citrate? I'm still thinking about this one. I think citrate if too high acts as an inhibitor? probably does anyway.
I've got some Mg Oratate here but haven't tried as yet.
Anyway just wondering if anyone has a favourite
magnesium glycinate brand?Jan
Posted by Declan on November 21, 2005, at 13:22:02
In reply to Re: Supplements and Herbs for Insomnia? » Declan, posted by tealady on November 20, 2005, at 15:47:30
Yeah, hello. I bought some of Sandra Cabot's magnesium in a heath food shop yesterday. My sleep patterns are such that I can't expect this to do the trick. I took 8 by the time I went to bed which I think is a little over half a gram of elemental magnesium. My sleep was no worse. I normally buy mine from Life Extension Foundation, but they don't have the diglycinate, so from them I'd get the citrate and also some glycine and taurine. It's either that or mirtazepine or Stilnoct(sp?)/Ambien. The naturopath said it was the liver at 2am thing and I said I wouldn't be surprised given what I've done to mine, although my results were within normal range, not that that meant much etc etc. Maybe mirtazepine will destroy my stomach (as it did Ravenstorm's) and make leaky gut syndrome worse. The naturopath said all of her patients had this and I said noone's got a clue. I used to take p5p, my doctor kept asking me whether I remembered my dreams, maybe I need that as well.
Anyway Jan, where do you live round here?
Declan
Posted by JLx on November 21, 2005, at 17:03:51
In reply to Supplements and Herbs for Insomnia?, posted by Tom Twilight on November 16, 2005, at 11:47:33
> Hey everyone
>
> I'm currently on 60mg of Marplan and have been suffering with insomnia for months.
>
> There are lots of alternative treatments that are supposed to help for insomnia, but I'm wondering which ones are actually effective.
>
> I've tried Melatonin which helps somewhat, but not dramaticly
>
> Magnesium Chelate and Calcium Chelate seem to make my insomnia worse, taken alone or together.
>
> Are there any herbs that are good for insomnia, I've heard Bacopa can help.....Magnesium and calcium chelated with what? And in what amounts?
I think the ratio can be very important with those two which may take a fair bit of experimenting.
You're taking B vitamins? Niacinamide?
JL
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