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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on April 24, 2005, at 12:18:18
I know you are extensivly educated about the alternatives, but have taken some traditional treatments as well. What is your final say?
Do you think that all aspects of depression can be treated with alternatives, or are some things best left to the pharmacuicals.
I am really in a bind here. I don't know where to go. When the drugs poop out, it really makes you think.
What were your main problems in the beginning, and what are keeping them under controll.
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 25, 2005, at 9:26:29
In reply to What do you take Larry, posted by linkadge on April 24, 2005, at 12:18:18
> I know you are extensivly educated about the alternatives, but have taken some traditional treatments as well. What is your final say?
I use prescription antidepressants as needed. I do not stay on them. I use them for crisis management. My crises are shorter and more environmental (i.e. due to identifiable stressors) than ever before. So, my strategy includes stress management, to the extent that is possible.
> Do you think that all aspects of depression can be treated with alternatives, or are some things best left to the pharmacuicals.
I leave crisis management (e.g. active suicidal ideation) to the pharmaceuticals. I do not believe that I even can be free of the tendency to become depressed. What I do, via the alternatives, is increase my depth, my resiliency and endurance, and maximize the duration of time within which I am most stable.
> I am really in a bind here. I don't know where to go. When the drugs poop out, it really makes you think.You are what you eat. Many of the alternatives are nothing more than food concentrates. It should be a part of every depressives toolkit, to determine which food concentrates are most important to maximize stability, and minimize the tendency to destabilize under stress.
The core elements to my food concentrate intake are B-vitamins, minerals (zinc, selenium, chromium, magnesium are the core minerals), phospholipids and precursors (lecithin, phosphatidyl serine, and fish oil (the fish oil supplies the DHA required for proper neuronal phospholipid synthesis)), fish oil (I mention it again, as it does other things than become a neuronal membrand constituent), antioxidants (vitamins C and E).
And then I get into the esoteric stuff.....Siberian ginseng, and various other herbals.....all that stuff is a "gut feeling" thing. I start to think, "Hey, I could use some of that ginseng today." You shouldn't use herbs every day, all the time, without breaks from them. I also get "gut feelings" for e.g. tryptophan, or N-acetyl carnitine, or inositol, or selegiline, or DLPA....
Those gut feelings come with experience. There is not other way to get them. You have to "do the experiment(s)".
> What were your main problems in the beginning, and what are keeping them under controll.
>
>
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> LinkadgeI've always been dysthymic. Life has always been an effort. It took some years of therapy for that awareness to trickle in, as my life was normal for me. In objective terms, though, my normal was dysthymia.
I experienced a significant number of concurrent stressors nearly ten years ago, which culminated in the loss of my home (I had been mortgage-free), my life savings, my marriage, my ability to continue in academia, my health (I needed a fairly major surgery, with an 18 month rehab), my dad's health (touch and go, heart problems), and my elder son's health (possible brain tumour, ended up being migraines (at 2 years of age!)), and eventually, bankruptcy. I have not been the same (the earlier Lar), since. I pulled a Humpty-Dumpty.
There isn't one single thing I do to manage. I have been blessed with an excellent therapist, who has been instrumental in my cognitive development (I came from a severely dysfunctional family, so my cognitive development was stalled), and cognitive reintegration (making sense of my present reality). What I was is of little current relevance. What I am, is.
I use nutrient management to increase my adaptability and resiliency, and I take measure of those aspects every day, all the time, without conscious effort. I have trained myself to do so, as I am on an energy budget. If I dip into my reserves (my savings), I pay the price in the ability to expend energy in the future. So, it is attitude management, as well.
Over time, my baseline functionality has improved. Day to day wobbles certainly occur, and there have been potholes I've fallen into, but overall, the trend is up, and has been for years now. But for the effects of some acute stressors, my mood has been stable since 2000. That was not a response to pharmaceuticals, IMHO. It was the combination of nutrient and cognitive management.
Upon achieving mood stabilization, it became clear that I had persistent symptoms, nonetheless. Those fit the paradigm known as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I also exhibit full-blown chronic PTSD (childhood stuff). These, I manage differently than I do the mood thing. CFS demands that energy budget concept remains in the forefront of my cognition, automatic as it may seem to be. I have to notice when I've had enough, and I have to stop whatever it is that I've had enough of, to the extent that I am able to do so. That's one reason my posts to this board are sporadic. I have spread myself thinly, of late.
I am on the cusp of entering full-time employment, for the first time since my crash. I am also deeply involved in a volunteer advocacy agency, helping people deal with the bureacracy that envelops one when "the wheels come off". I know you're in the Toronto area; I am a volunteer for an offshoot of OCAP. I help people deal with the vagaries of the Tenant Protection Act, and the oppressive Social Services regime.
Also, I am occasionally deeply involved on this board, but I do try to monitor it for "emergency" requests for information or guidance. It's all in that energy budget thing.
I hope that explains what I'm doing to manage my mood disorder, and the comorbidities.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 19:44:02
In reply to Re: What do you take Larry » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on April 25, 2005, at 9:26:29
I admire your struggle and your courage.
I hope you might take the time to read a little about me.
My main concerns started with an inability to concentrate, and constant phyiscal anxiety from the time I woke till the time I slept, which was obviously not too sound. Major apaty and anhedonia, no reason for living bla bla bla.I try to cover all the baiscs with nutrition. Eat well, always have, good fats, lots of vegetables, multivitamin, pletny of vigourous exercise.
Omega3, tryptophan and tyrosine extra vitamin C and magnesium during stressfull times.My main emotion is fear. All day and all night. Constant fear that drains all my energy. Fear leads to hate, and apathy.
I have been on quite literally everthing. Many many antidepressants, stimulants, sedatives, antipsychotics, anticovulsants, mood stabalizers,
I've been on more drugs then people twice my age, but I just can't stop the pain. I think about suicide every single day. If I could push a button and not be, I would have pushed that button like a rat does for a heroin injection.
The problem I have with the drugs is that all of the antidepressants feel so artificial (only been on serotonin medications). I don't feel like myself on them. They turn me into a person I don't even recognize. I feel posessed. Things look artificial. My brain spends all its time trying to wake up from them. My brain spends all its time trying to reject the reality they assert. They just distract me. They try and make me feel more capable than I am.
I am at a crisis. I don't know who to trust, or what to trust. Doctors have all of 10-15 minautes to spend with me, and quite honesly I'd rather be dead than assume that my life can be changed with 10 minautes and a month worth of placebos.Basically I figure if I bum around this page for long enough, maybe I can find enough information to change that needle from suicidal to a pass.
As you may know I have found some help with alternatives but I am poor, and afraid to start something that I might not be able to continue.
Sorry for the negativity, but I suppose there are special sites for people who are positive :)
Linkadge
Posted by Sarah T. on April 25, 2005, at 20:19:51
In reply to Re: What do you take Larry, posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 19:44:02
Hello, linkage,
I have read many of your posts, and I am in full agreement with what you say about the currently available medicines. Frankly, I wish I could turn the clock back to the day before I took my first antidepressant. I wish I had never taken any psychotropic drugs. I know they help some people, but the ones that are available right now are not right for me. I have an inoperable medical condition that contributes to my depression, and I've never yet found a physician who has been able to see "the big picture" or understand how each body system affects the others. I wish I could find a doctor or doctors who, even if they don't have the answer to my dilemma, would at least care enough to try to help me. In spite of my distress and enormous frustation, I still hope that someday someone will help me and that the right medicine will be available. I wish that you would have that hope, too. In spite of your subjective feelings about yourself, you are remarkably effective here on Psychobabble. You help many of us, and you are very thoughtful and intelligent. Please try to keep that in mind.
Posted by banga on April 26, 2005, at 7:35:55
In reply to Re: What do you take Larry, posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 19:44:02
>
> My main emotion is fear. All day and all night. Constant fear that drains all my energy. Fear leads to hate, and apathy.I am so sorry you are feeling so badly. I can relate to the intense fear.
Have you explored psychotherapy as an option? Is it an option for you? Combining treatments is always best. I am probably stating the obvious, but thought it worth mentioning...
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2005, at 8:35:48
In reply to Re: What do you take Larry, posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 19:44:02
> I admire your struggle and your courage.
Thanks. It is what it is, ya know?
> I hope you might take the time to read a little about me.
>
>
> My main concerns started with an inability to concentrate, and constant phyiscal anxiety from the time I woke till the time I slept, which was obviously not too sound. Major apaty and anhedonia, no reason for living bla bla bla.
>
> I try to cover all the baiscs with nutrition. Eat well, always have, good fats, lots of vegetables, multivitamin, pletny of vigourous exercise.
> Omega3, tryptophan and tyrosine extra vitamin C and magnesium during stressfull times.
>
> My main emotion is fear. All day and all night. Constant fear that drains all my energy. Fear leads to hate, and apathy.I don't see a seritonergic link in this. Not an obvious one.
Have you tried some taurine? The stuff is dirt cheap (if you get it in bulk), and if it works, it would be a major clue about how to help you manage better.
Get some taurine, take 1 gram, and see how you feel. If there's still an edge, take another gram. See how you feel, and how long the feeling lasts.
Have you ever had a cortisol panel?
Lar
Posted by linkadge on April 26, 2005, at 10:26:26
In reply to Re: What do you take Larry » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2005, at 8:35:48
I take taurine, and it is one of the things that really helps. It helps the fear, it brings me back into my body. The only problem I have with supplements, and maybe you can address this. I always think that when I find a good supplemenent, it will for some reason become unavailable, that they will take it off the market and I will be left stranded.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on April 26, 2005, at 10:29:55
In reply to Re: What do you take Larry » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2005, at 8:35:48
I've never had my cortisol checked, but I use periactin (cyproheptadine, sometimes used for cushings) all the time. Sometimes I think that the only reason some of these meds work for me is because they are 5-ht2a blockers. I find a med that really works, and they take it off the market. periactin is now a discontinued product here in canada.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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