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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KaraS on January 29, 2005, at 4:04:39
If one were to take at least 1200 mg. of SJW along with a few grams of fish oil, would that be dangerous in terms of blood thinning potential?
Posted by Jakeman on February 2, 2005, at 17:19:23
In reply to SJW w/ hi dose fish oil - too much blood thinning?, posted by KaraS on January 29, 2005, at 4:04:39
> If one were to take at least 1200 mg. of SJW along with a few grams of fish oil, would that be dangerous in terms of blood thinning potential?
My thinking is no. There is evidence that SJW actually reduces the effectiveness of blood-thinning drugs like Warfarin.
Posted by KaraS on February 2, 2005, at 17:44:33
In reply to Re: SJW w/ hi dose fish oil - too much blood thinning? » KaraS, posted by Jakeman on February 2, 2005, at 17:19:23
> > If one were to take at least 1200 mg. of SJW along with a few grams of fish oil, would that be dangerous in terms of blood thinning potential?
>
> My thinking is no. There is evidence that SJW actually reduces the effectiveness of blood-thinning drugs like Warfarin.
>Really? Do you have any links about that? Everything I've read suggests that it's a blood thinner. Someone I know of recently went off of it so she could have surgery.
Posted by Jakeman on February 2, 2005, at 22:58:47
In reply to Re: SJW w/ hi dose fish oil - too much blood thinning? » Jakeman, posted by KaraS on February 2, 2005, at 17:44:33
> > > If one were to take at least 1200 mg. of SJW along with a few grams of fish oil, would that be dangerous in terms of blood thinning potential?
> >
> > My thinking is no. There is evidence that SJW actually reduces the effectiveness of blood-thinning drugs like Warfarin.
> >
>
> Really? Do you have any links about that? Everything I've read suggests that it's a blood thinner. Someone I know of recently went off of it so she could have surgery.Kara, here's a couple of articles that I've come across:
http://www.geri.com/geriatrics/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=122404Table 3 "Dietary Supplements Know to Affect Surgical Outcomes" include SJW, but bleeding is not listed as a possible reaction. Also Table 1 provides a list of supplements associated with increased bleeding. SJW is not listed.
http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/PUarticles/sjw.htm
Table at bottom: MEDICINES INTERACTING WITH ST JOHN’S WORT. "Case reports of reduced anticoagulant effect and need for increased warfarin dose have been reported."
Have you read anything about fish oil and bleeding problems?
Jake
Posted by KaraS on February 3, 2005, at 1:05:02
In reply to Re: SJW w/ hi dose fish oil - too much blood thinning? » KaraS, posted by Jakeman on February 2, 2005, at 22:58:47
> > > > If one were to take at least 1200 mg. of SJW along with a few grams of fish oil, would that be dangerous in terms of blood thinning potential?
> > >
> > > My thinking is no. There is evidence that SJW actually reduces the effectiveness of blood-thinning drugs like Warfarin.
> > >
> >
> > Really? Do you have any links about that? Everything I've read suggests that it's a blood thinner. Someone I know of recently went off of it so she could have surgery.
>
> Kara, here's a couple of articles that I've come across:
>
> http://www.geri.com/geriatrics/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=122404
>
> Table 3 "Dietary Supplements Know to Affect Surgical Outcomes" include SJW, but bleeding is not listed as a possible reaction. Also Table 1 provides a list of supplements associated with increased bleeding. SJW is not listed.
>
> http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/PUarticles/sjw.htm
>
> Table at bottom: MEDICINES INTERACTING WITH ST JOHN’S WORT. "Case reports of reduced anticoagulant effect and need for increased warfarin dose have been reported."
>
> Have you read anything about fish oil and bleeding problems?
>
> Jake
Jake,
Good to know that about SJW. Here's some info on fish oil:"Therapeutic Uses
According to most (though not all) studies, fish or fish oil appears to help prevent death caused by heart disease.152 This effect seems to result from several separate actions that together help prevent atherosclerosis, including reducing high triglyceride levels, raising HDL ("good") cholesterol levels, "thinning" the blood, lowering levels of homocysteine, and perhaps decreasing blood pressure.14,15,51,90-94,96–105,151,160–165,174,177 For the same reasons, fish oil may help prevent strokes.20,178"
Here's the full link:K
Posted by Jakeman on February 3, 2005, at 12:40:06
In reply to Re: SJW w/ hi dose fish oil - too much blood thinning? » Jakeman, posted by KaraS on February 3, 2005, at 1:05:02
> > Have you read anything about fish oil and bleeding problems?
> >
> > Jake
>
>
> Jake,
> Good to know that about SJW. Here's some info on fish oil:
>
> "Therapeutic Uses
> According to most (though not all) studies, fish or fish oil appears to help prevent death caused by heart disease.152 This effect seems to result from several separate actions that together help prevent atherosclerosis, including reducing high triglyceride levels, raising HDL ("good") cholesterol levels, "thinning" the blood, lowering levels of homocysteine, and perhaps decreasing blood pressure.14,15,51,90-94,96–105,151,160–165,174,177 For the same reasons, fish oil may help prevent strokes.20,178"
>
>
> Here's the full link:
>
> http://healthinfo.healthgate.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21684
>
> K
>Excellent link, thanks. It led me to check out some of the studies...apparently fish oil may result in some blood thinning but no serious adverse effects have been showing up.
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 16:09:30
In reply to SJW w/ hi dose fish oil - too much blood thinning?, posted by KaraS on January 29, 2005, at 4:04:39
> If one were to take at least 1200 mg. of SJW along with a few grams of fish oil, would that be dangerous in terms of blood thinning potential?
I've formed an opinion, after reading various considerations with regard to clotting parameters and fish oil intake, that fish oil normalizes clotting, but does not create an unhealthy low level of clotting capacity, no matter how high the fish oil intake becomes.
It is my belief that what is taken to be "normal" with respect to clotting in Western societies is anything but. The prevalence of fatal disorders of clotting, e.g. heart attack, occlusive stroke, embolism, argue strongly for that interpretation. Numerous people are on "blood thinners", but when have you ever heard of someone needing a "blood thickener"? The mean level of blood clotting is, if anything, shifted way towards hypercoaguability.
There is no evidence that excess fish oil will lead to uncontrolled bleeding. None. Yet that is what "they" would have you believe, whoever the anonymous "they" are. There are some measurable decreases in certain clotting parameters, but there is no evidence that is a bad thing. Maybe people should be on fish oil, not warfarin?
I don't have a good reference to link you with, but that is my opinion.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on February 14, 2005, at 19:26:19
In reply to Re: SJW w/ hi dose fish oil - too much blood thinning? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 16:09:30
> > If one were to take at least 1200 mg. of SJW along with a few grams of fish oil, would that be dangerous in terms of blood thinning potential?
>
> I've formed an opinion, after reading various considerations with regard to clotting parameters and fish oil intake, that fish oil normalizes clotting, but does not create an unhealthy low level of clotting capacity, no matter how high the fish oil intake becomes.
>
> It is my belief that what is taken to be "normal" with respect to clotting in Western societies is anything but. The prevalence of fatal disorders of clotting, e.g. heart attack, occlusive stroke, embolism, argue strongly for that interpretation. Numerous people are on "blood thinners", but when have you ever heard of someone needing a "blood thickener"? The mean level of blood clotting is, if anything, shifted way towards hypercoaguability.
>
> There is no evidence that excess fish oil will lead to uncontrolled bleeding. None. Yet that is what "they" would have you believe, whoever the anonymous "they" are. There are some measurable decreases in certain clotting parameters, but there is no evidence that is a bad thing. Maybe people should be on fish oil, not warfarin?
>
> I don't have a good reference to link you with, but that is my opinion.
>
> Lar
>
>Thanks. Your opinion is good enough for me! (Besides as I think the earlier posts here indicate, there's no basis for assuming that SJW leads to blood thinning or hypocoaguability either.)
This is the end of the thread.
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