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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jasmineneroli on December 29, 2004, at 19:04:03
OK last one, I promise (for now) !
This supplement is used as an anti-alzheimers/memory, concentration enhancer. Apparently it stimulates nicotine receptors and improves acetylcholine levels.
It's pretty expensive, however. Anyone know anything about it? (apart from what manufacturers & retailers tell!).
Thank-you all.
Jas
Posted by barbaracat on December 29, 2004, at 19:31:52
In reply to What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse, posted by jasmineneroli on December 29, 2004, at 19:04:03
My husband's mom has some kind of dementia (but not alzheimer's) so he was taking it as a preventative - just 1 per day. He ran out about a month ago and I just asked him if he noticed any difference. He said that it did make him feel more clear headed and he though there was a mild effect from it.
I have a personal feeling, however, that taking the various cholines are going to target a variety of acetylcholine receptors and would give you more bang for your buck. Plus phosphatydyl serine has antianxiety properties and when I tried Galantamind it felt a little weird. A good mix would be:
phosphatydyl serine
phosphatydyl choline
choline alfoscerate (a newer one that targets a different pathway)Note that Reminyl is a synthesized fractionalized extract of galantamine and only contains isolated active ingredients and not the whole plant. Tests that were done in France on alzheimer's used extracts of the whole plant. Reminyl's test outcomes were not as positive, probably because it wasn't a whole substance. Galantamind put out by Life Extension Foundation claims that it's the full spectrum real deal.
> OK last one, I promise (for now) !
> This supplement is used as an anti-alzheimers/memory, concentration enhancer. Apparently it stimulates nicotine receptors and improves acetylcholine levels.
> It's pretty expensive, however. Anyone know anything about it? (apart from what manufacturers & retailers tell!).
> Thank-you all.
> Jas
Posted by ed_uk on December 29, 2004, at 21:34:13
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse » jasmineneroli, posted by barbaracat on December 29, 2004, at 19:31:52
Hello!
Galantamine is a prescription-only drug in the UK so perhaps Dr. Bob would let you post this on the main p-babble page- you might get more responses! Galantamine is quite similar to Aricept, it's approved for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease.
Ed.
Posted by jasmineneroli on December 30, 2004, at 13:18:05
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse » jasmineneroli, posted by barbaracat on December 29, 2004, at 19:31:52
Thx for the info.
I'm particularly interested in your suggestion on phosphatydyl serine....since my primary Dx is GAD, something that can address stress/cortisol created memory & concentration problems, without causing anxiety would be EXACTLY what I'm looking for.
Do you know a source for this product? Is it readily available in health food stores?
Jas
Posted by barbaracat on December 30, 2004, at 14:21:18
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse » barbaracat, posted by jasmineneroli on December 30, 2004, at 13:18:05
GAD, eh? I know it well. Yes, I do have a good source for the different cholines. Give me a little time to look them up and think about other GAD nutrients.
In the meantime, you might want to take a look at my long post about St. John's Wort, which has been helping me tremendously in the right combination of brands and doses. I didn't mention fish oil in it, but that also has been a big help. I'm a constant worrier, frantic anxiety and panic and mixed-states bipolar, but have been symptom free recently due to (I think) what I'm currently on.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041212/msgs/435452.html
> Thx for the info.
> I'm particularly interested in your suggestion on phosphatydyl serine....since my primary Dx is GAD, something that can address stress/cortisol created memory & concentration problems, without causing anxiety would be EXACTLY what I'm looking for.
> Do you know a source for this product? Is it readily available in health food stores?
> Jas
Posted by barbaracat on December 30, 2004, at 15:17:33
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse » barbaracat, posted by jasmineneroli on December 30, 2004, at 13:18:05
OK, here's the website (Beyond a Century) and some recommendations, at least what I would get:
First of all, this MultiVitamin is awesome. It contains alot of the things I'd suggest separately as far as amino acids, digestive enzymes, precursors for neurotransmitters, etc. They're not cheap but even if you take 2 a day you'll be getting some magical ingredients:
Life Extension Mix Formula Capsules (first item on page):
http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Multi_Vitamins.htmlThen for the brain nutrients, go to this page:
http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Neurological.htmlThe only things you want on this page are:
Picamilon - works well for anxietyPS-B - has phosphatydyl serine with the addition of bacopa, an Indian herb that's been used for centuries for mood disorders.
The other items on the page may be too activating for someone with GAD.
Another one that is purported to help anxiety is the amino acid
Theanine
(go to the single amino acids page), but I haven't found it to be all that noticeable.
Fish Oil: If you're not taking fish oil, it's been very important in my ongoing recovery from severe bipolar depression. The best one by far (and the best tasting) is Carlson's Best Fish Oil in liquid (you'd need a fistful of capsules to get the required mood stabilizing effect). You can get it at www.iherb.com. Here's the link:
http://www.iherb.com/norcodliver.htmlThis website has great prices and most everything you'd want. It has the different cholines too. You might want to compare what I mentioned above with this site and see if they have the same things for similar price (I doubt it though - the ones above are pretty specialized and very good prices). You might want to consider another choline, CDC-choline which helps in the synthesis of the other cholines in the brain:
http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/cholin2.html.
You don't want to overdo it on the cholines. They increase acetylcholine in the brain which helps with memory and concentration and transmitting nerve impulses, but in excess it can be too stimulating.
Hope this helps and doesn't break the bank for you. If I were to get only 2 it would be the vitamins and the PS-2. And definitely fish oil at 2 tbl a day. - Barbara
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 1, 2005, at 19:19:28
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse » jasmineneroli, posted by barbaracat on December 30, 2004, at 14:21:18
Hi Barbara:
I have tired SJW in the past, and it gave me a headache (unfortunately, so does a lot of stuff). I seem to be a slow hepatic metabolizer, especially regarding certain CYTp450 enzymes, and I always get headaches as a response. It wouldn't surprise me to find SJW is metabolized by one of those enzymes. KavaKava and Valerian also does the same thing.
I'm glad it's really working for you, though :)
Thank you for the links regarding the other products. I'm pretty sure I'll follow up on the phosphatidyl serine.
I'll probably take it alone at first, to rule out any problems, before I try a combo product.
As to the multi-vit you recommend, I'm going to have to research what's in it and what ratios, because so many vits/minerals cause me problems!
I would love to just one vitamin supplement in place of the many bottles I take right now!!!!
Thanks again!
Jas
Posted by barbaracat on January 1, 2005, at 19:51:28
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse » barbaracat, posted by jasmineneroli on January 1, 2005, at 19:19:28
That's an interesting point about the CP-450. I've heard about it's various problem potentials but never understood it well. I wonder sometimes about the heavy CP-450 dependent meds I've been on (I know that the various SSRIs are) and how that may have compromised things, affected other meds, etc.
Did you get tested for this? How did you find out you were a slow metabolizer? Do you know if that's the same as a slow/fast oxidizer in, say, the Metabolic Diet? Is it something would be helped by liver nutritionals?
Have you ever looked into your methylization status as maybe having a biological disorder? Undermethylizers have real problems with alot of the same vitamins/minerals that the Overmethylizers thrive on, and different forms of mood disorders.
bara:
> I have tired SJW in the past, and it gave me a headache (unfortunately, so does a lot of stuff). I seem to be a slow hepatic metabolizer, especially regarding certain CYTp450 enzymes, and I always get headaches as a response. It wouldn't surprise me to find SJW is metabolized by one of those enzymes. KavaKava and Valerian also does the same thing.
> I'm glad it's really working for you, though :)
> Thank you for the links regarding the other products. I'm pretty sure I'll follow up on the phosphatidyl serine.
> I'll probably take it alone at first, to rule out any problems, before I try a combo product.
> As to the multi-vit you recommend, I'm going to have to research what's in it and what ratios, because so many vits/minerals cause me problems!
> I would love to just one vitamin supplement in place of the many bottles I take right now!!!!
> Thanks again!
> Jas
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 2, 2005, at 17:33:36
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse » jasmineneroli, posted by barbaracat on January 1, 2005, at 19:51:28
No, I didn't get tested for liver enzyme metabolic efficiency. I want to though.
It was a more a process of elimination.
A while ago, there was a thread on Babble about "slow metabolizers', that had a link to some tables, identifying various drugs (and a few foods/supplements) and which P450 enzymes were responsible for their metabolism (and which substances could induce or hinder them).
I found that EVERY drug I took that gave me severe side-effects of the same nature, where all metabolized by CYTP450-2C19. And drugs that I took that I have NO problems with, were not!!!
To me, that was case closed.
(Some drugs, of course, use multiple enzymes).
This would mean that 2C19 is either absent, or slowly/inefficiently working, so even low doses of that drug builds up to "toxic" levels, resulting in the side effects.
There are probably other enzymes that do not work well for me too, I just haven't identified that yet. And I don't have a really good source that lists all vitamins/minerals and their hepatic metabolism routes.I don't know anything about the slow/fast oxidizer theory.......sounds interesting, something else I'm gonna have to research :)
As to liver nutritionals, I don't think they could hurt at all, especially when I've been taking drugs that have obviously placed a burden on my liver!! However, I don't think they would "cure" a genetic liver enzyme problem, such as a missing enzyme.
Larry H. is a wealth of info on this stuff (of course!). He might answer those queries.I have wondered about methylation status, too. I had read some posts by Raybakes earlier, but didn't delve too much into it. I have too much to try to solve at once!!!! My first objective was to get off Celexa and find a "natural" substitute, since it's metabolized by 2C19 and caused my problems. My next goal was to reduce or eliminate Klonopin, and replace it with something else, all the while keeping my nutritional needs met.
It's too confusing to follow so many theories at once!!!!!!
Jas
Jas
Posted by Chairman_MAO on January 11, 2005, at 16:30:44
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions plse » barbaracat, posted by jasmineneroli on December 30, 2004, at 13:18:05
Try (taken together):
Phenibut 250mg morning, afternoon, and bedtime
200mg l-theanine morning, afternoon, and bedtime
50mg picamilon 30 minutes before or after breakfast, lunch, and dinnerYou will probably feel better within 2 hours of the first dose, and significantly improved after one week.
Posted by barbaracat on January 11, 2005, at 17:24:52
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions p, posted by Chairman_MAO on January 11, 2005, at 16:30:44
Where do you buy these? What's your experience with phenibut? Is it like GHB? I'm currently going through a sleepless cycle and having a rough time of it, so if this cocktail would help, I'm on it. - Barbara> Try (taken together):
>
> Phenibut 250mg morning, afternoon, and bedtime
> 200mg l-theanine morning, afternoon, and bedtime
> 50mg picamilon 30 minutes before or after breakfast, lunch, and dinner
>
> You will probably feel better within 2 hours of the first dose, and significantly improved after one week.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on January 11, 2005, at 22:48:21
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions p » Chairman_MAO, posted by barbaracat on January 11, 2005, at 17:24:52
I am posting part of a babblemail I wrote in reply to someone asking me for a justification of why he should take this combination:
picamilon is a moderate gaba uptake inhibitor and mild antidepressant
l-theanine brings about a modest elevation of GABA and dopamine
phenibut is a GABA-B receptor agonist, which is responsible for some of its anxiolytic effect, and its centrally-mediated muscle relaxation. Phenibut also promotes GABA and DA release (250mg three times per day for 10 days brought about a marked improvement in parkinsonian symptoms in one study), and studies in rats show that chronic administration of phenibut increases benzodiazepine receptor expression 25-30%, thereby potentiating activity at GABA-A receptors as well. Phenibut may have additional effects at GABA-A receptors and the BZD receptors, but I don't know if its been well characterized due to the fact that much of the research on it will never be translated into English and was conducted when neuroscience had only the most rudimentary understanding of the BZD receptor. The fact phenibut can cause respiratory depression leads me to believe that it probably does effect the GABA-A receptor in some way.So you see, you have three GABAnergic drugs with different modes of GABAnergic activity, as well as two dopaminergic drugs with two different modes of action (I do not have time to research the mechanism of action of theanine).
I have also taken this combination, and it worked very well. My girlfriend told me it worked very well. I gave it to a friend of mine who was suffering cannabis withdrawal, and it eased his anxiety and a fine tremor. You can try calling the phone # listed on the webpage of smi2le.biz and asking them to ship you the "full strength anxiolytic nootropic formula", which is a combination capsule of all three I designed for them. Their business has been very disorganized as of late, so if you want to be sure you get your stuff fast, I'd order the phenibut from www.1fast400.com and the picamilon and theanine from beyond-a-century.com. You will have to make your own capsules, or used the scoops beyond-a-century gave you and take it with liquid. I forget whether they sell picamilon and theanine caps or not, but I know the phenibut is a bulk powder. Never fear, 250mg is roughly 1/8th of a teaspoon. It's really quite easy with a little practice to weigh 50 capsules worth of powder, blend the powders together, and then fill capsules with a cap-m-quik, and it saves a lot of money. I recommend it, and you can always use it for any bulk supplements you choose to purchase in the future.
Best of health to you.
I said "trust me on this one" because I wanted to contribute to the group and help some people but didn't have time to give a rationale. I really should be getting to bed, but I always feel a drive to help people as well as see if my cocktails work :)
To supercharge the above cocktail, try up to ~450mg of kavalactones per day or gastrodia elata tuber extract standardized for vanillin (if you can find it let me know), which is a potent GABA transaminase inhibitor.
Cheers,
--Blair
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 12, 2005, at 1:38:31
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions p, posted by Chairman_MAO on January 11, 2005, at 16:30:44
Thanks so much for that suggestion.
I really like the idea of three different gabanergic substances taken together.
As long as none of then require CYP450 2C19 to be metabolized I'll be side effect free, too!!!
Getting ahold of them might be an adventure, but I'm willing to search.
Also, I'll do my own research!
Best wishes
Jas
And Barbara - I need some SLEEP badly too!
Posted by Chairman_MAO on January 14, 2005, at 15:57:17
In reply to Re: What about Galantamine (Reminyl)? - opinions p » Chairman_MAO, posted by barbaracat on January 11, 2005, at 17:24:52
You can get all of these from smi2le.biz, or theanine+picamilon from beyond-a-century.com, and phenibut from www.1fast400.com.
I had smi2le make an "Anxiolytic Nootropic Formula" which are capsules of 200mg phenibut, 150mg l-theanine, and 40mg picamilon. Call them to inquire about this.
This is the end of the thread.
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