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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by enjay on June 11, 2004, at 3:07:56
Am thinking of trying this for anxiety.
Would appreciate any suggestions as to:
dose/ frequency / with or without food/
anything that increases its effect
Thanks
Posted by LOOPS on June 12, 2004, at 12:58:03
In reply to Niacinamide, posted by enjay on June 11, 2004, at 3:07:56
> Am thinking of trying this for anxiety.
> Would appreciate any suggestions as to:
> dose/ frequency / with or without food/
> anything that increases its effect
> Thanks
>Hi -
I started out taking 500mg niacinamide, then mixed it with 500mg inositol and 500mg gaba. This was the best combination ever for anxiety. However, be careful if you have bi-polar tendencies as inositol can induce hypomania.
I heard it was safe to take up to 1,500mg niacinamide a day - any more is supposed to be bad for your liver.
I have recently dropped the daytime inositol and gaba and am back on lith orotate as I was getting very bad mood swings. HOwever, I WAS a lot more relaxed with the high dose niacinamide (I do still take this, just in a lower dose).
I did occasionally find that after about 2 weeks taking 1,500mg niacinamide per day, I had episodes where I felt a bit 'down' on myself. Reducing the dosage to 250mg doses (3-4 x day) immediately got rid of this. Sometimes when I have a very stressful situation, I will take 500mg all at once.
Be careful of the brand you buy as well - I tried lots and some seemed to give me a brief transient headache.
Well worth it though the niacinamide - I wouldn't be without it now.
Remember also that if your body has more B3 from supplementation, it won't use up so much tryptophan from your diet to make B3 - so this extra goes to make serotonin, which also reduces anxiety (I think - most of the time anyway).
Sorry that was so long - it's been a bit of a journey with these vitamins. Good luck.
Loops
Posted by enjay on June 13, 2004, at 0:52:43
In reply to Re: Niacinamide » enjay, posted by LOOPS on June 12, 2004, at 12:58:03
Thanks Loops for your reply
Do you know how, 1500mg of Niacinamide a day or the combo you mentioned, compares to a low dose of a benzo eg Klonopin for anxiety reduction ?
Posted by LOOPS on June 13, 2004, at 10:10:23
In reply to Re: Niacinamide, posted by enjay on June 13, 2004, at 0:52:43
> Thanks Loops for your reply
> Do you know how, 1500mg of Niacinamide a day or the combo you mentioned, compares to a low dose of a benzo eg Klonopin for anxiety reduction ?
>- Yeah, I read this in numerous places. I've never been on daytime benzos (which is testament enough in my case that mega doses of vitamins CAN work) - believe me, my anxiety has been really bad most of my life; but I can believe a low dose benzo would have the same feeling of taking quite a large edge off.
The niacinamide, if anything, HELPS my brain, not hinders it, like maybe a benzo would - I don't know.
One note - I used niacinamide after I stopped using picamilon (GABA + niacin bonded together), as I had awful anxiety - it took me awhile on niacinamide alone to 'come back down' again from my anxious tower. If I remember it took about 2 weeks to fully feel the effects of the niacinamide - although I did get an instant calm as well.
I think the gaba and inositol work better with niacinamide for more anti-anxiety - but I am wary of inositol for the above said hypomania (I didn't realize this until I was reading back through my journal and was hit by how incredibly huge my mood swings had gotten). I am also wary of amino acids in general as their effects can build up in the system and change mood - and not always for the better(in my experience).
The only amino I mess with is 5-htp and tryptophan as they have had the largest impact on my insomnia - but even with 5-htp I have to be careful or I end up 'bitchy', if I don't balance it with other things or take too much during the day.
Vitamins on the other hand I have had nothing but good experience with; with the exception of co-enzyme B vitamins which make me crazy. Normal B vitamins are the best though - just very subtle.
Sorry that is probably more information than you wanted - maybe it can be of use though.
What else are you taking at the moment (if you don't mind me asking)?
Loops
Posted by enjay on June 14, 2004, at 3:23:41
In reply to Re: Niacinamide » enjay, posted by LOOPS on June 13, 2004, at 10:10:23
Thanks again Loops, the detail is appreciated.
It was interesting to hear that it takes a couple of weeks for the full effect to occur (I meant to ask you that in my last post but forgot)
Am i right in assuming that Picamilon didn't help your anxiety ? - it was going to be one of the things i intended to try.
At the moment i am only using the Niacinamide.
Several years ago i tried SSRIs and Xanax (at different times) and for various reasons became disillusioned with both. As a result, till now, i have just put up with things as fortunately the anxiety is not too bad.
However as you can see i am now giving the natural route a go.
Posted by LOOPS on June 14, 2004, at 10:18:40
In reply to Re: Niacinamide, posted by enjay on June 14, 2004, at 3:23:41
Hi -
yes I was taking picamilon for about 3-4 months before I had to come off it. It worked wonders for those months, then, for no apparent reason (I had changed nothing else) I felt it stopped working. I basically had a return of anxiety (as if I were not taking it at all), and then when I stopped taking it, I had really really awful anxiety - which was when I turned to the niacinamide for help. It took me about 2 weeks to get it under control again (brain to readjust??). However after I dropped the pic, I did embark on tryptophan, which did make me feel much better, so maybe I just had this underlying problem of serotonin deficiency from the start anyway.
Maybe it was just my experience - I don't know. I've heard many people having continued success with it (you might want to ask Ame Sans Vie who (used?) to post here and I think he is still taking it not sure).
Also, after looking around on other forums, there has been an idea that picamilon (the effect) may be able to build up in the system - so carrying on taking 50mg 3x daily ends up being too much. I didn't experiment taking even lower doses (I was taking 50mg 3 x daily).
Despite all that, for the time it DID work for me, it was by far the most powerful and effective thing I found for general anxiety and also social anxiety. It ALSO disposed with my negative thinking/depression - I wasn't aware of this until I started keeping a journal again and saw the difference in my thinking.
Be warned though - don't take it late in the evening as it caused insomnia in me if I took it later than say 3pm (not in an agitated way though - and I have to admit I suffer from insomnia anyway). It doesn't make you sleepy at all, but I'm sure you know that already.
I used to buy the 100mg capsules and empty half out into a glass of water - which was a pain in the arse but it was cheaper that way. I hear you can buy it in bulk cheaply now, so that may not be a problem.
Hope that helps.
Loops
Posted by enjay on June 15, 2004, at 4:27:13
In reply to Picamilon, posted by LOOPS on June 14, 2004, at 10:18:40
Thanks Loops (again) for the info on Picamilon.
It is difficult to get down under as there seems to be concerns about anything with GABA in it. However i will deal with that when i need to.
In the meantime I will continue with the Niacinamide of which I'm taking 500mg twice a day. Can't say I've noticed any effect but will give it 2-3 weeks.
Thanks for all your help
Posted by guttersnipe on June 26, 2004, at 0:10:54
In reply to Niacinamide, posted by enjay on June 11, 2004, at 3:07:56
Hi folks, I hope my query doesn't take this thread too far off-topic ...
Q: Does anyone know of any scientific evidence indicating what is a safe level of niacinamide -- i.e., one that does not present a risk of liver toxicity? I have searched many websites but most of what I've found on the subject is along the lines of "I've heard that X amount is safe" with no citations and with widely varying ideas as to how much X amount is.
Much obliged for whatever info anyone can provide.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 27, 2004, at 7:50:52
In reply to Re: Niacinamide: liver-safe amount?, posted by guttersnipe on June 26, 2004, at 0:10:54
> Hi folks, I hope my query doesn't take this thread too far off-topic ...
>
> Q: Does anyone know of any scientific evidence indicating what is a safe level of niacinamide -- i.e., one that does not present a risk of liver toxicity? I have searched many websites but most of what I've found on the subject is along the lines of "I've heard that X amount is safe" with no citations and with widely varying ideas as to how much X amount is.
>
> Much obliged for whatever info anyone can provide.The issue of the safe use of a supplement is never off-topic, IMHO.
The hepatotoxic effects of high-dose niacin therapy (e.g. for high blood lipids) first emerged with sustained-release niacin. The sustained-release form was sometimes associated with liver problems at doses as low as 3 grams per day. Even those cases seemed to be presented in the literature as case reports, suggesting it was a somewhat uncommon phenomenon, but certainly worth watching for in all treated patients.
Now, one theory of the increased toxicity of the sustained release formulation is that a greater proportion of it gets shunted down the niacinamide pathway, compared to the conjugation pathway (which causes that yucky flushing feeling). That would seem to implicate niacinamide itself for the toxic reaction, yet I cannot find so much as a case report of a single instance of liver problems related to niacinamed intake.
One hypothesis holds that the liver stress is mediated by depletion of the universal methyl donor, S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe). If that is indeed the case, then ensuring intake of SAMe promoting supplements such as betaine (also known as trimethylglycine (TMG)), and B-12 with B-6, would be altogether preventative of toxic effects.
IMHO, anyone attempting to treat anxiety-related stress with niacinamide should commit to taking a B-complex with added B-12, in any case. Any time you supplement with a lone B-vitamin, you risk placing further stress on systems dependent on other B-vitamins. This may simply be an explicit example of such a consequence.
Lar
Posted by guttersnipe on June 27, 2004, at 19:20:46
In reply to Re: Niacinamide: liver-safe amount? » guttersnipe, posted by Larry Hoover on June 27, 2004, at 7:50:52
Posted by hockeygirlcanada on July 15, 2004, at 13:51:51
In reply to Picamilon, posted by LOOPS on June 14, 2004, at 10:18:40
Hi,
I was just curious if you have an anxiety disorder. I have suffered from severe GAD and mild depression for years. I have been through the ssri, effexor, serzone, parnate, and now Nardil. I have always wondered about alternative solutions, but nothing worked. I tried the kava kava, valerian, passionflower, aromatherapy etc..
I know with Nardil, which this is only my first day, that you can't take tryptophan or 5-htp. I am just wondering if you ever took a benzo and how niacinimide or picamilon compare.
Thank You
Posted by LOOPS on July 16, 2004, at 9:03:50
In reply to Re: Picamilon » LOOPS, posted by hockeygirlcanada on July 15, 2004, at 13:51:51
Hello -
yes I do suffer from anxiety and also depression. I never took a daytime benzo - just a powerful one for insomnia.
picamilon worked better than niacinamide for anxiety, but was too stimulating and didn't work in the long-term. Also didn't help much with my insomnia.
lithium orotate and 5-htp have been very helpful, but I only take 5-htp at night or it makes me too sluggish.
Loops>
Hi,
> I was just curious if you have an anxiety disorder. I have suffered from severe GAD and mild depression for years. I have been through the ssri, effexor, serzone, parnate, and now Nardil. I have always wondered about alternative solutions, but nothing worked. I tried the kava kava, valerian, passionflower, aromatherapy etc..
> I know with Nardil, which this is only my first day, that you can't take tryptophan or 5-htp. I am just wondering if you ever took a benzo and how niacinimide or picamilon compare.
> Thank You
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