![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2012, at 7:44:37
In reply to Re: Lou's request to Mr. Hsiung-clarification, posted by Twinleaf on March 28, 2012, at 7:29:06
Friends,
The request here from me to Mr. Hsiung is about his solicitation to another member to post about what I posted. This is in relation to that this admin board is for discussing {actions taken by the administration]. It is not about Scott.
Lou
Posted by SLS on March 28, 2012, at 8:32:01
In reply to Lou's response-psowlisah, posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2012, at 7:44:37
> Friends,
> The request here from me to Mr. Hsiung is about his solicitation to another member to post about what I posted. This is in relation to that this admin board is for discussing {actions taken by the administration]. It is not about Scott.
> LouThis is not completely accurate. If your posts had not had the potential to hurt me and put me down - which you did with your "30 years of druggin'" statement - we would not be here now, would we? It is about you. It is about your treatment of me and how you used my personal history against me. My emotional reactions to your posts along the thread in question were of hurt and disbelief.
People are less inclined to do violence to you here than to perform mitzvahs for you. People are genuinely concerned with your welfare. Unfortunately, you seem to be impervious to this concern.
I would like to see you take care of yourself first and take care of others second. This is the way of the Talmud.
- Scott
Posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 9:38:36
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on March 28, 2012, at 8:32:01
>This is frightening to me. LESS inclined? that implies there is some inclination to do violence.I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by the slang "druggin" I occasionally use it myself as a synonym for tireless pharmaceutical experimentation.
You posted that you loved Lou. Do you think having a rule in place that will preclude him from posting on threads that are open to others will be a loving response to Lou? Do you remember the rule of 3? Do you believe it was put in place primarily because of complaints about one particular member? What about the rule that Lou is not allowed to talk about the Nazis? Why is he being singled out?>
> People are less inclined to do violence to you here than to perform mitzvahs for you. People are genuinely concerned with your welfare. Unfortunately, you seem to be impervious to this concern.
>
>
>
>
> - Have you considered that Lou's feelings might be hurt that you judge him to be "impervious" to what you characterize as concern when he may feel it not to be concern?I apologize if I have hurt anyone's feeling in this post that was not my intention.
>
Posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 9:51:01
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on March 28, 2012, at 8:32:01
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20101230/msgs/1014318.html
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2012, at 9:56:42
In reply to Tangent Alert » SLS, posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 9:51:01
I do wish said poster would allow us to possible help him as I know or think I know he's a pretty okay guy. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on March 28, 2012, at 11:56:29
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah » SLS, posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 9:38:36
> I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by the slang "druggin"
I don't feel that it is your place to apologize to me on behalf of Lou Pilder.
> I occasionally use it myself as a synonym for tireless pharmaceutical experimentation.
This is a personal choice for you to make. Your choice is irrelevant to me, and does not mitigate the hurt I felt.
> You posted that you loved Lou. Do you think having a rule in place that will preclude him from posting on threads that are open to others will be a loving response to Lou?
That I love Lou does not immunize him from the consequences of his behaviors nor does it make my hurt any less of a consequence.
> Do you remember the rule of 3? Do you believe it was put in place primarily because of complaints about one particular member?
I lobbied for the rule because I found the behavior of a single member of the posting community to be disruptive.
> What about the rule that Lou is not allowed to talk about the Nazis?
What about it? Is there anything about my behavior that would lead you to ask me that question?
> Why is he being singled out?
What is he being singled out for?
- Scott
Posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 12:35:12
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah » zazenducke, posted by SLS on March 28, 2012, at 11:56:29
> > I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by the slang "druggin"
>
> I don't feel that it is your place to apologize to me on behalf of Lou Pilder.It's not an apology Scott, it's an expression of sympathy.
>
> > I occasionally use it myself as a synonym for tireless pharmaceutical experimentation.
>
I was trying to ease your pain by explaining to you that the expression is not offensive to many people.> This is a personal choice for you to make. Your choice is irrelevant to me, and does not mitigate the hurt I felt.
Being hurt is your choice Scott I was just trying to offer a perspective that might help you feel better. I'm sorry it didn't help. I thought it might be relevant because we were fellow human beings.
>
> > You posted that you loved Lou. Do you think having a rule in place that will preclude him from posting on threads that are open to others will be a loving response to Lou?
>
> That I love Lou does not immunize him from the consequences of his behaviors nor does it make my hurt any less of a consequence.Is it possible that being hurt is the result of your interpretation of his behavior rather that the behavior itself?
>
> > Do you remember the rule of 3? Do you believe it was put in place primarily because of complaints about one particular member?
>
> I lobbied for the rule because I found the behavior of a single member of the posting community to be disruptive.
>
> > What about the rule that Lou is not allowed to talk about the Nazis?
>
> What about it? Is there anything about my behavior that would lead you to ask me that question?No it has nothing to do with your behavior. I didn't remember that you had anything to do with the rule of three. I was asking if you felt it was fair to exclude one member of the site from full participation. To create a little posting ghetto with special rules for a subset of the population?
>
> > Why is he being singled out?
>
> What is he being singled out for?Not being allowed to post about the Nazis. The rule of 3. Being the subject of Bob's question to you about your feelings about his post. Not being the subject of Bob's expressed concern about his feelings about others' posts.
Why?
>
>
> - Scott
>
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. That was not my intention.
Posted by gostrider on March 28, 2012, at 13:04:56
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah, posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 12:35:12
This is the reason babble is out of tune in today,s mental help. Sure lou is a pain , as so are others on babble, but he his a member of your forum an mentally ill like every one else , or why are you here. True he has one focus that you may not like 24.7 but thats lou , like any other member of a mental health forum. Take a step back an look how now you has members are ganging up an bullying another ill person just like yourself.Not a quality any new member would find attractive.
Posted by 10derheart on March 28, 2012, at 15:29:22
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah, posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 12:35:12
FWIW...(likely very little)
>>Not being allowed to post about the Nazis. The rule of 3. Being the subject of Bob's question to you about your feelings about his post. Not being the subject of Bob's expressed concern about his feelings about others' posts.
I'm pretty sure all posters,not just Lou, are discouraged/not allowed to post about Nazis (but this is a newer request/prohibition, so I dunno quite how Dr. Bob handles this....haven't seen it happen enough...)
The "rule of 3" also applies to all posters.
Dr. Bob has questioned others posters in the past about their feelings about the post(s) of others.
I (and I'd guess others) have experienced "not being the subject of Bob's expressed concern about his feelings about others' posts." Most definitely this - on numerous occasions. I can't recall exactly, but I believe Dr. Bob might have asked me to consider the possibility that, in any given situation, his *not* expressing concern about my feelings about others posts (to or about me) didn't mean he didn't care, but just that he was focusing on something else at that time.
Not that is made me feel any better, necessarily.
Not that I'm even 100% sure I understand what you meant.Maybe Dr. Bob was sometimes suggesting being hurt was "my choice," as you put it to Scott. Didn't often agree, since there must be some baseline or we couldn't have civility here based on not posting things that *could* lead others to feel accused or put down......more like my particular skin was too thin at that moment. In Bob's opinion. Objective? Subjective? {shrug} With feelings it gets dicey....
Ahh...but who knows anything, really? Not me.
Still in the midst of your final flybye? ;-)
Posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 17:48:38
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah » zazenducke, posted by 10derheart on March 28, 2012, at 15:29:22
Always do the fly bye first you never know when you'll be shot down and not have a chance!
I think the rules came after people pressured bob and were specifically designed to please the people that complained but it never does does it?
And the solution to all problems is more rules.
And unequal enforcement etc etc etc
I don't know if what Bob does is by design or (redacted) but it doesn't seem to be working does it?
I just like to come by and say hello to the old gang and cheer on those that are still involved.
I just read a biography about Dietrich Bonhoeffer. It pointed out that the basis for Nazi psychiatry was supported by a truly evil corruption of the idea that man was created in the image of God put forward by the extreme wing of the Nazi controlled state church. Instead of believing that even in pain and suffering even the weakest and most deformed was created in the image of God just as he was, the Nazis saw man as the potential of becoming the image of God by molding himself into the perfect Aryan man. And this led to murder of anyone who was not capable of this perfection because they were not healthy Aryan man. As you know the Nazi psychiatry was based on biological reductionism. The idea of the life of the soul and spirit the unconscious was spurned as Semitic because of Freud and company. The first people in Germany who were gassed were the mental patients. The gas used in the concentration camps were used on mental patients first. The good of the group (civility) always came before individual in Nazi Germany.
Thanks for posting I don't have any hope that things will change but standing up for what's right counts for something. And it's fun to come say hi to you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
z
> FWIW...(likely very little)
>
> >>Not being allowed to post about the Nazis. The rule of 3. Being the subject of Bob's question to you about your feelings about his post. Not being the subject of Bob's expressed concern about his feelings about others' posts.
>
> I'm pretty sure all posters,not just Lou, are discouraged/not allowed to post about Nazis (but this is a newer request/prohibition, so I dunno quite how Dr. Bob handles this....haven't seen it happen enough...)
>
> The "rule of 3" also applies to all posters.
>
> Dr. Bob has questioned others posters in the past about their feelings about the post(s) of others.
>
> I (and I'd guess others) have experienced "not being the subject of Bob's expressed concern about his feelings about others' posts." Most definitely this - on numerous occasions. I can't recall exactly, but I believe Dr. Bob might have asked me to consider the possibility that, in any given situation, his *not* expressing concern about my feelings about others posts (to or about me) didn't mean he didn't care, but just that he was focusing on something else at that time.
>
> Not that is made me feel any better, necessarily.
> Not that I'm even 100% sure I understand what you meant.
>
> Maybe Dr. Bob was sometimes suggesting being hurt was "my choice," as you put it to Scott. Didn't often agree, since there must be some baseline or we couldn't have civility here based on not posting things that *could* lead others to feel accused or put down......more like my particular skin was too thin at that moment. In Bob's opinion. Objective? Subjective? {shrug} With feelings it gets dicey....
>
> Ahh...but who knows anything, really? Not me.
>
> Still in the midst of your final flybye? ;-)
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2012, at 20:03:39
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah, posted by gostrider on March 28, 2012, at 13:04:56
Is this manic? Oh I'm sure I'm wrong. My apologies as got caught up in the subject. Not an excuse. But a hearfelt apology for accusing you of being someone else. Phillipa
Posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 20:29:33
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah, posted by gostrider on March 28, 2012, at 13:04:56
Very compassionate post.
We're all in this together.
I know I'm a pain sometimes but I'm still human and doing the best I can.> This is the reason babble is out of tune in today,s mental help. Sure lou is a pain , as so are others on babble, but he his a member of your forum an mentally ill like every one else , or why are you here. True he has one focus that you may not like 24.7 but thats lou , like any other member of a mental health forum. Take a step back an look how now you has members are ganging up an bullying another ill person just like yourself.Not a quality any new member would find attractive.
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2012, at 20:46:10
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah » gostrider, posted by zazenducke on March 28, 2012, at 20:29:33
Oh I'm a pain for sure. I'm sick at heart. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2012, at 21:00:10
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah, posted by gostrider on March 28, 2012, at 13:04:56
> This is the reason babble is out of tune in today,s mental help. Sure lou is a pain , as so are others on babble, but he his a member of your forum an mentally ill like every one else , or why are you here. True he has one focus that you may not like 24.7 but thats lou , like any other member of a mental health forum. Take a step back an look how now you has members are ganging up an bullying another ill person just like yourself.Not a quality any new member would find attractive.
gostrider,
You wrote,[...and mentally xxx...].
My understanding of humanity is that all we like sheep have gone astray. You see it has been revealed to me that we all have a mind that we were born with that is separated from what our minds could be. This revelation is that we are separated by a Great Gulf. On one side is our flesh mind, or carnal mind. On the other side of the Great Gulf is a Kingdom. And those that passover the Great Gulf receive a new heart and a new spirit and mind, and they sing a new song. There is no pain there or tears there nor is there death there. You see, I did not come here to rebuild the old heart and mind but to show a way for one to find a new heart.
I have come here to seek the lost sheep that hear my voice and the voice of the one that has spoken to me.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2012, at 21:22:16
In reply to Lou's response-nupsong » gostrider, posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2012, at 21:00:10
> > This is the reason babble is out of tune in today,s mental help. Sure lou is a pain , as so are others on babble, but he his a member of your forum an mentally ill like every one else , or why are you here. True he has one focus that you may not like 24.7 but thats lou , like any other member of a mental health forum. Take a step back an look how now you has members are ganging up an bullying another ill person just like yourself.Not a quality any new member would find attractive.
>
> gostrider,
> You wrote,[...and mentally xxx...].
> My understanding of humanity is that all we like sheep have gone astray. You see it has been revealed to me that we all have a mind that we were born with that is separated from what our minds could be. This revelation is that we are separated by a Great Gulf. On one side is our flesh mind, or carnal mind. On the other side of the Great Gulf is a Kingdom. And those that passover the Great Gulf receive a new heart and a new spirit and mind, and they sing a new song. There is no pain there or tears there nor is there death there. You see, I did not come here to rebuild the old heart and mind but to show a way for one to find a new heart.
> I have come here to seek the lost sheep that hear my voice and the voice of the one that has spoken to me.
> Lou
>
gostrider,
You seem to see what's your perception of goin' on here.
But I say to those that want to post here about me as to what I post here, that they can choose not to hear my voice, they can choose not to want a new mind, they can choose not to have a new heart, they can choose to not to have a new spirit as by reading my posts here and find some other way to either rebiuld their flesh mind or receive a new mind by whatever means they have the freedom to seek of.
But I have come here to reveal what has been revealed to me about {healing}. This healing has been revealed to me to lift one up. Lift one up to a new Kingdom, over the Great Gulf, with a new King with a new song. And it the darkest time of your life there could be a Morning Star. And the Sun of Rightiousness could arise with healing in his wings.
Lou
Posted by gostrider on March 29, 2012, at 3:59:24
In reply to Lou's response-continued to gostrider, posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2012, at 21:22:16
LOU, post is a very biblical way , the way he see,s things is that the meds you an i use today, were used to kill millions in another chapter of history, which i think he would love to go into more but is bocked from full free speech. He can only see meds as a weapon of mass distruction ,things he has seen an read obout.The problem hear is he is posting about meds on the med board his right as a member, he is posting on meds . That is a lot more that a lot of posters who post anything they like on the med board when there are boards for there topics idleing away in tumbleweed land. I personally am not religious so religious post in the wrong forum are worse to me than lou,s .Dont read him if you dont like him but dont distoy him, by hounding off the only thing he has.An why after 20 years of lou you suddenly turn on a mentally ill guy. He is one man in a forum who is against meds. other forums ratio, s are 50.50
Posted by SLS on March 29, 2012, at 4:43:00
In reply to Lou's response-continued to gostrider, posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2012, at 21:22:16
> But I say to those that want to post here about me as to what I post here, that they can choose not to hear my voice,
So, I guess you can write whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want. This does indeed seem to be the case for you here at Psycho-Babble.
All babies will die if the mother takes Prozac postpartum. The mothers will be so dysfunctional from druggin' that the baby will be neglected and die.
Choose not to read your posts? What about for those "newbies" - people who are new to PB, and possibly desperate, but unfamiliar with Lou Pilder and his posts describing the inevitability of injury and death by using psychopharmaceuticals? How would they know not to read your posts?
Do you care how you adversely affect others - especially the newly arrived - with the misinformation, overgeneralizations, and exaggerations you post?
Do I care whether or not you are hurt by what I say here? Why should I? I have no obligation to do so as you have no obligation to heed the passionate cries of hurting people that you desist posting your repertoire of misinformation along the thread they have chosen as a source of education and support. Spreading misinformation is not education and continuing to do this when politely asked not to is not support. A thread that starts out being supportive very quickly becomes unsupportive when you come to visit. Why do that? Is it because you are convinced that you have knowledge that will save people's lives? Is this exonerating of your misinforming and bullying a thread? I guess it's possible. Atomic bombs have been known to save lives. Now, there's a topic for discussion. It has been revealed to me that President Truman was directed by God to drop such a bomb over Hiroshima, Japan, thereby saving lives. Bombs save lives. I could explain more about this, unless the rule of 3 applies.
- Scott
Posted by zazenducke on March 29, 2012, at 5:53:10
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psowlisah » zazenducke, posted by 10derheart on March 28, 2012, at 15:29:22
I never knew why all of you quit. And why most of you rarely participate as posters anymore. Do you know something about Babble that we don't know? That caused you to withdraw?
Do you believe Babble is a safe and wholesome place for vulnerable people to seek support and education?
Hope you don't mind my asking. Of course you're free not to respond.
Posted by zazenducke on March 29, 2012, at 6:13:46
In reply to An emotional reaction on my part? » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on March 29, 2012, at 4:43:00
about medical diagnosis or treatment.
You are a high school graduate who spent his life drugging himself and reading medical texts. That does not mean you are qualified to practice medicine on the internet.
I do like you and have always felt sorry for you. I know your little career on Babble has given you an enormous amount of gratification but it does endanger other people.
Among other things Lou's posts put yours in perspective. You are both on absolutely equal ground here. You are in no way more qualified to give an opinion on mental health issues than he is.
Scott you are not an expert on anything. You have opinions just like we all do.
Posted by zazenducke on March 29, 2012, at 7:11:42
In reply to What happened to all the deputies? » 10derheart, posted by zazenducke on March 29, 2012, at 5:53:10
Nevermind. I think I know all I need to know about Babble just from looking at the boards.
I cannot stand watching Lou be bullied. I just cannot stand it.
Posted by SLS on March 29, 2012, at 8:55:53
In reply to Scott you are delusional and unsafe to give advice » SLS, posted by zazenducke on March 29, 2012, at 6:13:46
Why does my being delusional preclude me from giving advice?
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 29, 2012, at 9:04:04
In reply to Scott you are delusional and unsafe to give advice » SLS, posted by zazenducke on March 29, 2012, at 6:13:46
> Scott you are delusional and unsafe to give advice
> about medical diagnosis or treatment.
>
> You are a high school graduate who spent his life drugging himselfPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
I do hope that you choose to remain a member of this community and that members of this community help you, if needed, to avoid future blocks. If you want to be proactive, you could ask another poster to be your civility buddy:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#buddies
It's up to you to decide whom you interact with. Sometimes interacting with others may be frustrating, staying civil may be a challenge, and new skills may help. If you're open to developing new skills (which I realize may not be why you came in the first place), that's another way in which you may be supported by other posters.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Twinleaf on March 29, 2012, at 10:55:06
In reply to Re: blocked for week » zazenducke, posted by Dr. Bob on March 29, 2012, at 9:04:04
Dr. Bob, it doesn't seem reasonable that you would block Zazenducke, but not Lou, when both has said equally clearly hurtful things to Scott. In addition, over these past months, a number of other posters have expressed fear and hurt over the effect of Lou's posts on them; more than one has left Babble because of this.
As administrator, I assume that you will act in ways to help Lou develop the capacity to express his views without causing harm to other posters. I am very disappointed that you have not taken even one small step in that direction. Instead of doing that, you keep changing the topic - most recently trying to find things wrong with my post of appreciation to Scott. This only causes more problems and hard feelings on everyones' part, and doesn't solve anything.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2012, at 15:54:51
In reply to Re: Lou's response-continued to gostrider, posted by gostrider on March 29, 2012, at 3:59:24
> LOU, post is a very biblical way , the way he see,s things is that the meds you an i use today, were used to kill millions in another chapter of history, which i think he would love to go into more but is bocked from full free speech. He can only see meds as a weapon of mass distruction ,things he has seen an read obout.The problem hear is he is posting about meds on the med board his right as a member, he is posting on meds . That is a lot more that a lot of posters who post anything they like on the med board when there are boards for there topics idleing away in tumbleweed land. I personally am not religious so religious post in the wrong forum are worse to me than lou,s .Dont read him if you dont like him but dont distoy him, by hounding off the only thing he has.An why after 20 years of lou you suddenly turn on a mentally ill guy. He is one man in a forum who is against meds. other forums ratio, s are 50.50
gostrider,
What could you tell me to do here under the conditions that you see here?
Lou
Posted by sigismund on March 29, 2012, at 16:54:40
In reply to Re: blocked for week » zazenducke, posted by Dr. Bob on March 29, 2012, at 9:04:04
I was wondering how long that would take but was expecting it to be for a year.
Go forward in thread:
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
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